GettingBy

(this got way longer than I expected... Sorry)

I got the biggest and possibly second biggest quacks I have ever heard...

1. "I went out golfing with Tom (a guy from church) the other day. I learned something about him that you don't know. He's an alcoholic. And we had a great conversation about alcoholics, see he knows a lot of them... And he told me... I'm not an alcoholic. I can't be because my drinking hasn't screwed up all aspects of my life. My marriage is the only thing screwed up, and that's because of you, not me. So, you are making a huge mistake divorcing me... Because I'm not an alcoholic."

I had no response. Not one word. What more is there to say after something like that is thrown out there?!?!

And No. 2.... Was actually more sad than funny but I had to share because it just left me dumbfounded.

AH has a couple in our neighborhood that he loves to drink with. They creep me out, and always have since we moved in two years ago - everyone thinks they are swingers. This is the couple with the bar in their basement... The place AH just had to stop at on the night of our anniversay, and then proceeded to stay there and drink instead of take me out to dinner, and the place he takes kids so he can drink (but I digress). Anyways, back when AH and I got along we always thought the had a bad marriage (we should have been paying more attention to our own!!!) bc he was always accusing her of sleeping with people and calling her. a ***** in front of us. Well, about a week ago, AH says to me...."you know I talked to J&L... And you wouldn't believe THEIR problems... And they AREN'T getting a divorce.". I didnt take the bait... So he brought it up again today. Same story, this time I said, "well, I don't know what their problems aren't and frankly I don't...". He cut me off and said, "he caught her sexting to another guy, and body slammed her to the floor and then punched her in the face. He gave her a BLACK EYE!!! THAT'S marital problems SHANNON. NOT what YOU keep complaining about. And L isn't divorcing J!!"

I responded, "well, everyone has standards and things they will and won't accept. What you did is unacceptable to me. And if you think I'm going to stick around until it escalates to what you call MARITAL problems, your f-in crazy. You can look around all day B, and find better and worse... And all that doesn't matter one bit. What matters is what goes on behind YOUR closed doors. If you're telling me their garbage to justify/diminish/deflect what you did... Please, stop talking."

His response... And this is really what's so unbelievably sad...
"I'm just telling you is because you don't have any clue how bad life could be, and how good YOU have it."


I dont know if he is or isn't an alcoholic... And quite honestly, as I told him, the label doesn't matter one bit. What matters is that alcohol is causing problem in his life, and yet he continues to keep drinking anyways. He got really drunk Friday afternoon and evening... And drove around like that. I mentioned that to him... That his behavior is reckless and irresponsible, and why does he keep doing it, in spite of the consequences? I got the classic alcoholic response... "it's the norm, and EVERYBODY does it, but you wouldn't know because you're too uptight."

Part of me wishes I was wrong...if the drinking was really just MY problem, and the whole throat incident is getting blown out of proportion...then we could save our marriage with counseling. And I wouldn't have to divorce and sell the house, and rock the kids world...

But I'm not wrong. My husband has a drinking problem and anger issues. And I need to get out of the way of that train and let it head where it needs to go.

If you made it this far... Thanks for listening. I needed to share this and it's too late here to call any al-anon buddies.

-Shannon

LexieCat

Yeah, it IS sad. Lucky you, he isn't beating the crap out of you. Isn't there a Hallmark card for that?

Won't life be more pleasant when you don't have to listen to that kind of quap every day?

StarCat

I shouldn't laugh at this, but I am.

I was doing an exercise today to help me let go of the anger and resentment I have towards XABF. I wrote down all the negative traits he has that I could think of, and an example of each one.
The next part of the exercise I was supposed to write down exactly as many positive traits as I wrote down negative traits, and give examples of those, too. If I could write down as many positives as I had negatives, then I could recognize that even though he didn't treat me as well as I deserve, he is not all bad. Also a reminder to me that when I started dating him, I was concentrating on the positive traits, and he does have them, so I'm not crazy for getting sucked in.

The problem came that writing out the positive traits was extremely difficult for me. When I finished the exercise the best I could do it, I looked at my list.
Alright, XABF, you are an abusive, narcissistic alcoholic who feels entitled to have the world your way only, but I can forgive you for that, because you're punctual, and very generous towards others when spending my money.

It's very difficult, even being separate from him and the situation, to focus on his good qualities. I was only able to complete the exercise properly when my sponsor suggested I focus more on the positive traits that other people would see in him, and suddenly it was easy, because he was always going out of his way to help others... It's just that when it came to me, that sense of entitlement got in the way. He viewed me as an enabler, not a partner, and any behavior that didn't fit that image would result in abuse to pull me back in line.
But he was generous towards everyone else (and I mean everyone else).

So he's not a horrible, evil person. He's just broken, and in his case I don't think there's enough help in the world to turn him into a complete, healthy human being - and he doesn't want it anyway.
But now I can fix myself, so that I am healthier than I was before, because now I can acknowledge him as the person he thinks he is, the person that other people view him as, and the person that he was towards me once I got deeper into the relationship. His logic is completely flawed, but it's what he believes, and so I will let him keep it, let go, and move on with my own recovery. He's missing so much of the good I see in life, but he doesn't want to see it, so I will let him remain behind with his blindfold and his earplugs, and I will move on alone towards a better life.

Alone22

Amazing. Hang in there one day you will be free of the quacking. Do they even know how silly they sound? Like anything short of a beating should be okay...WHAT?!

grateful101010

He's an a**hole and always will be. Not worth your keystrokes and barely worth mine. He's one of millions. Cut this one loose and sail on, sister.

LaPinturaBella

I get it. He's getting a professional diagnosis from...an alcoholic. Oh geez. I'm sure AH neglected to tell Tom about getting drunk, driving drunk, whatever aspects of his life ARE affected by alcohol...just the marriage. Can we say Denial and Manipulation???


Well, then "L" is probably in a total fog and major denial, IMO. Maybe she's too scared to divorce a brute who body slams her and punches her in the face. Man, AH's attitude as displayed here is REALLY scary to me.


That is so sad. As long as YOU don't think you have it good, I support you 10 million percent in your decision to leave and make a better life for YOURSELF...a life as YOU see it.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. But you are eating the elephant one bite at a time and it will all be a part of your past sooner than you think. Glad your SR buddies are here at all times to listen.

-Shannon2

LaTeeDa

Well, I don't even know your neighbors, and I'm a little creeped out by what you typed. Not just that he's abusive to her and she's staying, but that your AH uses that as justification for himself. I'm a little scared for you right now, TBH.

L

Buffalo66

Im with LTD on the feeling like, his seeming to think that their problems were problems, but not divorce worthy...

IDK, It just sounds like he wants to keep on keepin on, and no, it doesnt matter if he is an alcoholic by whoevers standards...(BTW, I have heard with my own ears several "friends" over the years try to convince my RAH that he wasnt a drunk. HE was homeless, and he went to jail 3 times, he woke up and shook until he made it tthe liquor store for his little bottle of vodka that he would pour into his water bottle and sip all morning...People have reasons for bolstering denials, and who knows who this other guy is, number one, ,and who knows if ANY OF IT EVEN HAPPENED OR WAS SAID, numbr two..)

Grateful101010, I like your Robert Downey Junior quote...
Here is another one for all those dealing with a dry drunk out there,

" Why go through the pain and labor of exorcising a demon like addiction from your life if you are just going to be the same a**hole you were when you were possessed by it? I am not interested in being the same person I was when I was using. He was not a great guy."

Cyranoak

A recovering alcoholic I know who's been sober for decades was sober for several years before working the steps. He tells the story that one day his wife told him he should start drinking again because he was more of a ***** sober than he was drunk.

That was his bottom. That's when he fully engaged with AA, that's when he started working the steps, and that's when his life began to improve. You would never, not even for a moment, believe that the incredible leader he is in our recovery community (and has been for over 30 years) was a miserable, angry, drunk.

It really does work IF you work it.

Take what you want and leave the rest,

Cyranoak

Thumper

Ugh. It will be so nice for you when all this quacking is behind you.

Quack Free Life --- such a blessing! Serenity awaits!

I've heard similar. Over and over with nice deliveries, mean and nasty deliveries. It started in person because we were in the same house. Then it went to phone calls because I was still listening to him , then it went to emails - which kept up for a very.long.time and finally stopped because I never responded.

My xah never admitted his drinking could have been a problem either and apparently golf courses are over run with drunks and marriage advice See - the only problem in our marriage was my hormones and midlife crisis. So after that wisdom their next line was 'have a beer on us' - apparently a couple at every hole.

Oh - I too was going to regret divorcing him. He was going to be wildly successful and sober (because me and these pesky kids were no longer going to hold him back!) and I was going to be sorry. I'd rather be divorced from a wealthy successful sober man then married to an unemployed drunk man. I did say that one out loud.

Creepy. I got a lot of similar things thrown at me too. Person xyz is still married. So and so is still married. Marriage improves recovery. How I was making things up (or having an affair was usually the thing) or that other people stayed married through much worse, how he was such a stellar guy because he didn't hit me or cheat on me, or how we just didn't have any real problems. Puhlease. I can find an unemployed, lazy, selfish, drunk under any rock I care to kick over. I kept that one in my head but it did take away the sting of confusion in the early days. I almost chanted it in my head when he'd go off on a rant/tangent like that.


You are showing a lot of strength here. Please know that this part right now is the hardest. Get through this difficult part and life really does become more serene, peaceful, and manageable.

StarCat

Oh gosh, he was always throwing this one at me, and we weren't even married!
"Women come and visit their men in jail when he's in there for murdering ten people! But you won't stick by me through this disease."

GettingBy

Thank you all for "listening" and responding. I feel like I'm losing my mind sometimes when I have all that quacking thrown at me. I have to just keep my feed grounded in reality and plugging ahead.

Thank you Thumper... This is a really tough time. It hurts like heck to do this... but I know it's right.

Just for today...

GettingBy

Anvil,

I would have reported it, if I had information on it when it was happening. He came home drunk... I had no clue where he was drinking, if/when he was going to be on the road... which roads he'd be on, etc.

Can you report it once he's off the road? Seems to me like they have to witness him breaking the law.

I've often thought about calling the cops on him... but that seemed to fall under "creating a crisis" to me. He's going to get caught eventually... its only a matter of time. But the flip side is knowing he could get in an accident and kill somebody... I would then feel terrible if I could have prevented that. I don't know... for me, he's drinking/driving falls under things I can't control, so I've always just kept my nose out of it.

I'm curious to see what others think... any thoughts/opinions?

sandrawg

OMG such quack quack, too bad you can't put earbuds in when he starts talking.

My exabf used to say the same thing "the only thing the drinking is messing up, is our relationship, so I'm not an alcoholic" as if our relationship was not even important! Well I'll tell you something-if he had 3 spheres of his life ruined by drinking, he STILL Wouldn't see it! He could lose his job, and all he'd do was convince himself it was some OTHER reason he lost it! I guarantee it.

How do you know an alcoholic is lying? His lips are moving...ugh.

wanttobehealthy

When AH has left our home and I've even worried that he was drunk (or when he has texted/called to say he's having a few) I have called the police.

If I know he is in his car, under the influence, I feel it is my obligation to let the police know for the safety of others.

I don't want to be the one in a car with my kids who is hit by a drunk driver bc someone who knew that driver was out there was too worried to call.

I've made it clear to AH that if I think he is drinking or know he is and is driving, I WILL call the police. Oddly, of all the things he's been irate at me for, this is not one of them. Part of me thinks he wanted to be caught.

sandrawg

For me, if I knew he was driving drunk, I could not live with myself if he ended up killing someone. Therefore if I knew it before the fact or while he was driving, I'd for sure call the cops. You can call anonymously in some states.

sandrawg

Also keep in mind, he is quacking like crazy because he's panicking at losing his enabler...

StarCat

I think they need to catch him while driving for the call to do any good.
That said, I'm sure there's no rule against you calling it in after the fact, they probably won't be able to do much with regards to him after the fact, but they may be able to give you some good information.

GettingBy

If I knew for a fact it was happening, I would report it. Without details (ie. where his is/driving, if he is in fact drunk, etc) - I think calling the police would be a waste of their valuable time. I could call and say, "My husband is out drinking, he's going to be coming home and driving on x,y,z roads to get home." Would they do anything with that?

That all being said...

I think that's a slippery slope to "not live with yourself" because of what someone else choses to do. If my AH choses to drink and drive, and something terrible happens - that's COMPLETELY on him... not me. Ever. Period. I do believe in my civic duty to report law breaking, but if I don't... doesn't mean I'm culpable.

wanttobehealthy

FWIW,
The cops have told me they appreciate my calling even when I haven't been sure exactly where he is. For ex/ my H told me this winter that he was in a particular town at a bunch of bars with his friends and was planning to drive home on a major highway. I told the police that (after I asked H to let me know where he was and I'd come pick him up - rather than have him kill someone else or himself).

I think that the police are appreciative of any heads up we might give them if we are truly concerned for the well being of others who might be on the road. Calling with no clue where someone is and doing so out of anger (which I've been tempted to do but didn't) is one thing, but calling with good faith info- even if you don't know where they are-- that, I have found, is something the police appreciate.

I also learned that even if you don't have the license number, the police can look it up by name as long as that persons name is on the registration.

If the only reason for not calling is not being sure where exactly someone is or being unsure of exactly how drunk they are, I'd say err on the side of calling.