How do I trust her after all the lies?
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I'm glad the visit went well!
And I'm glad that you're being cautious, as well.
It takes a long time to build back broken trust, but then again, they need to take the time and earn it, because so many times we let them "buy back" the trust, and they just take advantage of us again and again.
Being cautious means we're also better at finding the real improvements.
I am so glad that your family was able to have a good Easter!
You all deserve it, and holidays are difficult enough without active addiction.
I am wishing you much happiness, health, and recovery, for everyone involved.
And I'm glad that you're being cautious, as well.
It takes a long time to build back broken trust, but then again, they need to take the time and earn it, because so many times we let them "buy back" the trust, and they just take advantage of us again and again.
Being cautious means we're also better at finding the real improvements.
I am so glad that your family was able to have a good Easter!
You all deserve it, and holidays are difficult enough without active addiction.
I am wishing you much happiness, health, and recovery, for everyone involved.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
This is good but keep in mind something I hear in al-anon all the time...Expectations are future disappointments.
IF you hinge your emotions and whether or not you have a good day, based on whether or not SHE is having a good day, you're setting yourself up for pain. It's going to be a roller coaster ride, filled with good days and bad days, esp in early recovery.
Unfortunately, we codependents somehow learn, when dealing with an alcoholic, to base our moods on them and how they're doing. This is something al-anon, and reading about codependency, helps us un-learn. We learn through detachment, and learning to give up control (read the serenity prayer.) Al-anon truly works wonders in people's lives. I've seen it time and again. Good luck to you!
IF you hinge your emotions and whether or not you have a good day, based on whether or not SHE is having a good day, you're setting yourself up for pain. It's going to be a roller coaster ride, filled with good days and bad days, esp in early recovery.
Unfortunately, we codependents somehow learn, when dealing with an alcoholic, to base our moods on them and how they're doing. This is something al-anon, and reading about codependency, helps us un-learn. We learn through detachment, and learning to give up control (read the serenity prayer.) Al-anon truly works wonders in people's lives. I've seen it time and again. Good luck to you!
Originally Posted by Jeep08 
It was a good day!
My wife was able to leave the rehab centre to spend the day with the kids and I. She was in a good state of mind. She got along with the kids and with me. She had 12 hours to be away from the facility but we only used 6 of them. Anything more is too long of a day for the kids as we have to add 4 hour driving time to our day. We spent 3 hours at a wave pool and water slide. This was good as the kids were busy and having fun and we had a few opportunities to talk as well. I was not worried about watching all three kids solo as she was attentive and helpful. She was really listening to the kids yesterday. This was a good day and while I know it won’t all be good like this one it gives me hope that there is something good worth working to that can include my wife in the picture and not exclude her. Hoping for more day like that. I guess you could say today I am cautiously optimistic.
My wife was able to leave the rehab centre to spend the day with the kids and I. She was in a good state of mind. She got along with the kids and with me. She had 12 hours to be away from the facility but we only used 6 of them. Anything more is too long of a day for the kids as we have to add 4 hour driving time to our day. We spent 3 hours at a wave pool and water slide. This was good as the kids were busy and having fun and we had a few opportunities to talk as well. I was not worried about watching all three kids solo as she was attentive and helpful. She was really listening to the kids yesterday. This was a good day and while I know it won’t all be good like this one it gives me hope that there is something good worth working to that can include my wife in the picture and not exclude her. Hoping for more day like that. I guess you could say today I am cautiously optimistic.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 46
While I am new to the site we have been through multiple steps of unsuccessful recovery over the last 4 years but she never tried a full residential recovery program before this.
Is she working her program? I think yes for the first time she is really working the 12 step program. I feel the advantage of a residential program where they are away from home for six weeks is that they are immersed in it. That does not mean it will stick of course, but it gives them a running start at building the routine of meetings and changing their lives. It’s up to her to keep up with her recovery process once she gets out of the facility in two weeks. In addition to the twelve step work in AA and NA meetings she gets to work one on one with professional councilors on a daily basis. All that being said she must keep up with her own program once she is out. Its her responsibility not mine.
First 4 weeks she was very miserable to visit with, this time she seemed open honest and more sharing. This week she was very talkative about the process she has been going through. That’s good. It will take a long time for me to trust her and if I do it will come through lots of communication and sharing from both of us.
I have booked a summer vacation for the kids and I that does not include her. I am not excluding her but our family plans to not have to fit how she is doing. Its a hard line to walk detachment is good but we also do not want to set barriers to her being part of the family or having support if in recovery.
We had a good talk about what my plans would be with the kids over the summer we need to find a schedule that would allow her flexibility to go to as many meetings as she feels gives her balance. We also need to find time for me to go to a regular schedule of Alonon meetings. Flexibility is the hard part with three kids to coordinate. I have found one that I want to try that has an alateen meeting at the same time and location that my oldest may benefit from. Alonon will be part of the family recovery but hard to get to with kids, work and yes it is Hockey play-offs. I Am Canadian so that is important too. I am learing do not give up what is important to me! We have lots of time.
Who has had kids attend Alateen meetings? At what age? and what reactions did they find to asking the child to go?
Is she working her program? I think yes for the first time she is really working the 12 step program. I feel the advantage of a residential program where they are away from home for six weeks is that they are immersed in it. That does not mean it will stick of course, but it gives them a running start at building the routine of meetings and changing their lives. It’s up to her to keep up with her recovery process once she gets out of the facility in two weeks. In addition to the twelve step work in AA and NA meetings she gets to work one on one with professional councilors on a daily basis. All that being said she must keep up with her own program once she is out. Its her responsibility not mine.
First 4 weeks she was very miserable to visit with, this time she seemed open honest and more sharing. This week she was very talkative about the process she has been going through. That’s good. It will take a long time for me to trust her and if I do it will come through lots of communication and sharing from both of us.
I have booked a summer vacation for the kids and I that does not include her. I am not excluding her but our family plans to not have to fit how she is doing. Its a hard line to walk detachment is good but we also do not want to set barriers to her being part of the family or having support if in recovery.
We had a good talk about what my plans would be with the kids over the summer we need to find a schedule that would allow her flexibility to go to as many meetings as she feels gives her balance. We also need to find time for me to go to a regular schedule of Alonon meetings. Flexibility is the hard part with three kids to coordinate. I have found one that I want to try that has an alateen meeting at the same time and location that my oldest may benefit from. Alonon will be part of the family recovery but hard to get to with kids, work and yes it is Hockey play-offs. I Am Canadian so that is important too. I am learing do not give up what is important to me! We have lots of time.
Who has had kids attend Alateen meetings? At what age? and what reactions did they find to asking the child to go?
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
You know you're allowed to bring kids to al-anon meetings, right? You just have to make sure they're not disruptive. I've seen a couple of people bring their kids to meetings--if it were me, I'd do it if I had no other choice.
Meetings are THAT important.
I still sense expectations in what you posted ("good day" vs. "bad day"; "good visit" vs. "bad visit"-why are you judging?). Honestly, there are many of us who still love ACTIVE alcoholics, and any day where they would be in treatment, for us, would be a good day! Any bad day in treatment HAS to be better than even the BEST day when they're still drinking. I'm just saying.
Meetings are THAT important.
I still sense expectations in what you posted ("good day" vs. "bad day"; "good visit" vs. "bad visit"-why are you judging?). Honestly, there are many of us who still love ACTIVE alcoholics, and any day where they would be in treatment, for us, would be a good day! Any bad day in treatment HAS to be better than even the BEST day when they're still drinking. I'm just saying.
Originally Posted by Jeep08
Thanks for the words. After four weeks of the program she is allowed a pass to get out of the facility and spend part of the day with the kids and I tomorrow. I hope it goes well. Last weeks shorter visit did not go very well. Kids did not behave well and she was miserable. An outside environment with something for the kids to have fun with may help. It makes for a long day as the facility is out in the country and about 2 ½ hour drive each way plus a visit.
She was able to phone earlier tonight for a few minutes. I suggested we should find some way to spend time together one on one when she is finished the program even if it is only one or two hours without the kids to talk each week. We need to work on our marriage if this is going to be worth it. She was very disinterested in talking about setting some us time aside. She said she will be very focused on going to meetings and being with the kids and I get that as they need to be priorities but we also need to work on us even if it is one hour per week. Hope she changes her mind in the next two weeks of treatment and sees the importance of this.
I get that when she went in I was the bad guy by telling her she needed treatment or needed to leave the house. She is still very resentfully of that. I she was a very high functioning alcoholic and fooled me in relapses for long periods. Her drinking was dangerous to our kids. I can not control if she drinks or not but need to keep my kids safe from its impact on them and their safety.
This is going to be a long process for both of us. I will find time for the alonon meetings but need to access some family support to watch the kids, as of yet have not found anything that will work on a regular basis. Will keep working on it.
Thanks for the words, good to know I am not alone.
On a positive note did get a good workout with the kids at a family Karate this AM. The exercise feels great and it is something the kids and I can do together that has a positive effect on all of us, physically and mentally. Our 6 year old did a great job of staying with the entire 1 hr class. As I can do this with the kids I am not restricted by needing a sitter to do it.
She was able to phone earlier tonight for a few minutes. I suggested we should find some way to spend time together one on one when she is finished the program even if it is only one or two hours without the kids to talk each week. We need to work on our marriage if this is going to be worth it. She was very disinterested in talking about setting some us time aside. She said she will be very focused on going to meetings and being with the kids and I get that as they need to be priorities but we also need to work on us even if it is one hour per week. Hope she changes her mind in the next two weeks of treatment and sees the importance of this.
I get that when she went in I was the bad guy by telling her she needed treatment or needed to leave the house. She is still very resentfully of that. I she was a very high functioning alcoholic and fooled me in relapses for long periods. Her drinking was dangerous to our kids. I can not control if she drinks or not but need to keep my kids safe from its impact on them and their safety.
This is going to be a long process for both of us. I will find time for the alonon meetings but need to access some family support to watch the kids, as of yet have not found anything that will work on a regular basis. Will keep working on it.
Thanks for the words, good to know I am not alone.
On a positive note did get a good workout with the kids at a family Karate this AM. The exercise feels great and it is something the kids and I can do together that has a positive effect on all of us, physically and mentally. Our 6 year old did a great job of staying with the entire 1 hr class. As I can do this with the kids I am not restricted by needing a sitter to do it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 46
My kids at an adult Alonon meeting raises some issues for me. First, I can not be as open about my feelings and thoughts with them there. They are only 6, 9 and 12. Due to their age that would not be appropriate. The kids are already upset by my wife’s absents and do not need that kind of adult conversation adding to their stress load. Second, with the young one he would not be able to sit for the length of a meeting. I have been to a meeting, have been starting some reading and will go to more once I have some support lined up for the kids. I do think my 12 year old will benefit from Alateen and possibly the 9 year old as well. The six year old is just too young. One of my boundaries is to try to only upset there routine as little as possible. More meetings are going to happen but just at a slower pace. The slower start on meetings for me makes this site all the more important.
I agree any day in treatment is a good day. I need to remember that.
The kids play a huge role in the equation and my boundaries. Most of the boundaries that I have set are for them as that is always going to be my first priority. I also try to see the world partly from my kids point of view.
Going with the flow and having fewer expectations is one of the things I have to work on. But that is a process that will take a long time for me to really embrace, it is not in my nature. I am a planer. I plan to keep my very busy work and home life semi sane. I plan because I am learning disabled and without the structure of a plan and schedule I do not function well at all. Without a plan I feel lost and confused. With planning things out there tends to be some level of expectations. It is a natural part of planning things and thinking about them in advance. I need to try to lessen those expectations and simplify things but I know that will take time. Without a plan I am lost. I must take small steps.
I agree any day in treatment is a good day. I need to remember that.
The kids play a huge role in the equation and my boundaries. Most of the boundaries that I have set are for them as that is always going to be my first priority. I also try to see the world partly from my kids point of view.
Going with the flow and having fewer expectations is one of the things I have to work on. But that is a process that will take a long time for me to really embrace, it is not in my nature. I am a planer. I plan to keep my very busy work and home life semi sane. I plan because I am learning disabled and without the structure of a plan and schedule I do not function well at all. Without a plan I feel lost and confused. With planning things out there tends to be some level of expectations. It is a natural part of planning things and thinking about them in advance. I need to try to lessen those expectations and simplify things but I know that will take time. Without a plan I am lost. I must take small steps.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Planning is great! Just remember, recovery often doesn't go as planned 
Flexibility helps.
As for kids at al-anon, I hardly ever talk at an al-anon meeting unless I need to. And when I do talk at al-anon, I rarely even discuss my exabf. Al-anon is all about me and working on my recovery..my character defects, etc. It's always an option to just sit and listen.
Flexibility helps.As for kids at al-anon, I hardly ever talk at an al-anon meeting unless I need to. And when I do talk at al-anon, I rarely even discuss my exabf. Al-anon is all about me and working on my recovery..my character defects, etc. It's always an option to just sit and listen.
Originally Posted by Jeep08
My kids at an adult Alonon meeting raises some issues for me. First, I can not be as open about my feelings and thoughts with them there. They are only 6, 9 and 12. Due to their age that would not be appropriate. The kids are already upset by my wife’s absents and do not need that kind of adult conversation adding to their stress load. Second, with the young one he would not be able to sit for the length of a meeting. I have been to a meeting, have been starting some reading and will go to more once I have some support lined up for the kids. I do think my 12 year old will benefit from Alateen and possibly the 9 year old as well. The six year old is just too young. One of my boundaries is to try to only upset there routine as little as possible. More meetings are going to happen but just at a slower pace. The slower start on meetings for me makes this site all the more important.
I agree any day in treatment is a good day. I need to remember that.
The kids play a huge role in the equation and my boundaries. Most of the boundaries that I have set are for them as that is always going to be my first priority. I also try to see the world partly from my kids point of view.
Going with the flow and having fewer expectations is one of the things I have to work on. But that is a process that will take a long time for me to really embrace, it is not in my nature. I am a planer. I plan to keep my very busy work and home life semi sane. I plan because I am learning disabled and without the structure of a plan and schedule I do not function well at all. Without a plan I feel lost and confused. With planning things out there tends to be some level of expectations. It is a natural part of planning things and thinking about them in advance. I need to try to lessen those expectations and simplify things but I know that will take time. Without a plan I am lost. I must take small steps.
I agree any day in treatment is a good day. I need to remember that.
The kids play a huge role in the equation and my boundaries. Most of the boundaries that I have set are for them as that is always going to be my first priority. I also try to see the world partly from my kids point of view.
Going with the flow and having fewer expectations is one of the things I have to work on. But that is a process that will take a long time for me to really embrace, it is not in my nature. I am a planer. I plan to keep my very busy work and home life semi sane. I plan because I am learning disabled and without the structure of a plan and schedule I do not function well at all. Without a plan I feel lost and confused. With planning things out there tends to be some level of expectations. It is a natural part of planning things and thinking about them in advance. I need to try to lessen those expectations and simplify things but I know that will take time. Without a plan I am lost. I must take small steps.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
I am 13 years into a relationship with an AW/RAW...
...and I can say a lot of things. I'll say only two:
First, your posts are still primarily about her, and when they aren't they are about your kids. They aren't about you. That's a problem. Without you turning your focus inward, you will not be able to take care of your kids, and work towards having a better life.
Second, if you are not working your own plan of recovery from the effects of alcoholism, i.e. Alanon, you will be cheating yourself, your kids, and your wife of the you they deserve.
Excuses to not go to Alanon are just excuses to not go to Alanon.
I know and feel your pain, and I've know and felt if for a long, long time. That said, with the help of Alanon I now live with a sober wife. Even if she weren't I'd still be a happier and better person. I know that because she wasn't sober for the ten years prior.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
First, your posts are still primarily about her, and when they aren't they are about your kids. They aren't about you. That's a problem. Without you turning your focus inward, you will not be able to take care of your kids, and work towards having a better life.
Second, if you are not working your own plan of recovery from the effects of alcoholism, i.e. Alanon, you will be cheating yourself, your kids, and your wife of the you they deserve.
Excuses to not go to Alanon are just excuses to not go to Alanon.
I know and feel your pain, and I've know and felt if for a long, long time. That said, with the help of Alanon I now live with a sober wife. Even if she weren't I'd still be a happier and better person. I know that because she wasn't sober for the ten years prior.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Jeep. I wanted to bump this thread cuz I wanted to let you know, I went to an al-anon meeting last night where a woman brought her son. He appeared to be about 7 or 8.
He sat in the corner on his computer, with headphones on, the whole time.
He seemed to be none the worse for wear at the end of the meeting, and he really enjoyed the free cookies. Just sayin'.
He sat in the corner on his computer, with headphones on, the whole time.
He seemed to be none the worse for wear at the end of the meeting, and he really enjoyed the free cookies. Just sayin'.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Jeep- I just wanted to say that wherever you are at and whatever you need this site for is what you should use it for. If right now you need to share how you feel about your W and talk about your kids, you should do so. I think that the stages of recovery are just that-- stages (recovery for us that is) and while I agree that focussing on you is the ultimate goal- it took me a while of going to al anon meetings and therapy and focussing far too much on my H before I started getting how I needed to focus on me. Be patient with yourself and we all ought to be patient with each other and respect where we are all at.
As for your post title- how do you trust her after all the lies... I think the answer is that you don't. Actions over time re-establish trust. If she expects trust right away then in my opinion that's a pretty clear sign that she's not at all interested in or connected to what recovery is about. Likewise if you expect yourself to feel you trust her or expect her to be trustworthy right away you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed.
You're a great Dad for thinking about your kids as much as you do. And being a Mom of 2 young kids who has limited babysitting options I get how tough it is to get to al anon meetings. There are far fewer of them than AA meetings (at least in my area) and at least around me, 4 of the 7 meetings a week in my town are during the day. Great if you don't work. Not so much if you do. Is there a trusted babysitter you could use? Do you live near a college -- college kids are always looking for extra money and you might find a sitter that way? Or how about a local high school-- call and see if they have a child care vocational program and ask them to post that you are looking for a sitter. That's how I found my old sitter who has since graduated and gone off to college-- she was amazing!
As for your post title- how do you trust her after all the lies... I think the answer is that you don't. Actions over time re-establish trust. If she expects trust right away then in my opinion that's a pretty clear sign that she's not at all interested in or connected to what recovery is about. Likewise if you expect yourself to feel you trust her or expect her to be trustworthy right away you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed.
You're a great Dad for thinking about your kids as much as you do. And being a Mom of 2 young kids who has limited babysitting options I get how tough it is to get to al anon meetings. There are far fewer of them than AA meetings (at least in my area) and at least around me, 4 of the 7 meetings a week in my town are during the day. Great if you don't work. Not so much if you do. Is there a trusted babysitter you could use? Do you live near a college -- college kids are always looking for extra money and you might find a sitter that way? Or how about a local high school-- call and see if they have a child care vocational program and ask them to post that you are looking for a sitter. That's how I found my old sitter who has since graduated and gone off to college-- she was amazing!
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