OT - Reality Check Needed
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sheesh. I understand this woman wanting him to go with her to her work event. As I said, totally understandable. But, "I will not do an important work function without x"????
Wonder how her employer feels about that.
Ever read a short story by Herman Melville called "Bartleby the Scrivener"? Bartleby responded to every request or demand by his employer with a mild, "I would prefer not to." It drove his employer batsh*t and Bartleby winds up wasting away, but I digress.
Simply repeat, as often as necessary, "I would prefer not to."
Wonder how her employer feels about that.
Ever read a short story by Herman Melville called "Bartleby the Scrivener"? Bartleby responded to every request or demand by his employer with a mild, "I would prefer not to." It drove his employer batsh*t and Bartleby winds up wasting away, but I digress.
Simply repeat, as often as necessary, "I would prefer not to."
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
There is no question in there so I wouldn't respond.
Try not to spend any more time thinking about this event. What is done is done.
I know how hard this is. I correspond by email too.
I make myself go through certain steps. They have saved me from my initial reaction many times. I'll share them with you in case they are helpful.
1) Is the email about the kids. If yes I keep going. If not, I just ignore it.
2) Is there a question in it? If not I ignore it.
3) Is the question worthy of a response? If not I ignore it.
4) I I feel I should respond, I respond with the answer to that question only. Then I wait and go do something and come back and re-read it. Almost every time I have to edit so that my response answers only the question asked with no other information at all. Not my reasons. Not solutions. Not thoughts or observations. I actually usually do that at least twice and each time it gets shortened to only answering the question.
It saves a lot of anxiety for me - a lot. There is nothing left to argue.
So in the first email. "No, I'm committed on the alternate day and can't switch." Depending on what it is I might not even add the 'committed' part. No response at all to the last email. It does not matter what they think, are accusing you of, or what they threaten. There is no end to that rabbit hole IME.
ETA: I still do this. I just did it last night with a question about taxes. I had to cut it down three times until I was just answering the question. Seems simple but apparently not for me!
Try not to spend any more time thinking about this event. What is done is done.
I know how hard this is. I correspond by email too.
I make myself go through certain steps. They have saved me from my initial reaction many times. I'll share them with you in case they are helpful.
1) Is the email about the kids. If yes I keep going. If not, I just ignore it.
2) Is there a question in it? If not I ignore it.
3) Is the question worthy of a response? If not I ignore it.
4) I I feel I should respond, I respond with the answer to that question only. Then I wait and go do something and come back and re-read it. Almost every time I have to edit so that my response answers only the question asked with no other information at all. Not my reasons. Not solutions. Not thoughts or observations. I actually usually do that at least twice and each time it gets shortened to only answering the question.
It saves a lot of anxiety for me - a lot. There is nothing left to argue.
So in the first email. "No, I'm committed on the alternate day and can't switch." Depending on what it is I might not even add the 'committed' part. No response at all to the last email. It does not matter what they think, are accusing you of, or what they threaten. There is no end to that rabbit hole IME.
ETA: I still do this. I just did it last night with a question about taxes. I had to cut it down three times until I was just answering the question. Seems simple but apparently not for me!
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Am I out of line to say your XAH sounds like a real jerk-face in his emails and my impression - for what it's worth - he is still trying to control you through your son?! I hope I am not offending you, but that was my take on it. If my X talked to me the way he did in your latest post here - I wouldn't accommodate anything short of what the court told me I had to. But I also moved my kids 5000 miles away from their Dad - getting his blessing by agreeing to not ask for child support. What a trade off, eh?! All I can offer is that over time, this stuff does get easier, even with overbearing GF's in the picture. Before you know it, your son will be old enough to make up his own schedule.
Hang in there!
Hang in there!
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I make myself go through certain steps. They have saved me from my initial reaction many times. I'll share them with you in case they are helpful.
1) Is the email about the kids. If yes I keep going. If not, I just ignore it.
2) Is there a question in it? If not I ignore it.
3) Is the question worthy of a response? If not I ignore it.
4) I I feel I should respond, I respond with the answer to that question only. Then I wait and go do something and come back and re-read it. Almost every time I have to edit so that my response answers only the question asked with no other information at all. Not my reasons. Not solutions. Not thoughts or observations. I actually usually do that at least twice and each time it gets shortened to only answering the question.
It saves a lot of anxiety for me - a lot. There is nothing left to argue.
1) Is the email about the kids. If yes I keep going. If not, I just ignore it.
2) Is there a question in it? If not I ignore it.
3) Is the question worthy of a response? If not I ignore it.
4) I I feel I should respond, I respond with the answer to that question only. Then I wait and go do something and come back and re-read it. Almost every time I have to edit so that my response answers only the question asked with no other information at all. Not my reasons. Not solutions. Not thoughts or observations. I actually usually do that at least twice and each time it gets shortened to only answering the question.
It saves a lot of anxiety for me - a lot. There is nothing left to argue.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
The emails would trigger a fairly powerful reaction in me too. Underneath the condesending words with all their jabs and digs, they are still trying to figure out a way to control you because they know they have no power unless they can force it from you with the only weapon they have - which is emotional manipulation.
Uncertaintly, at this point, you won. You have the power, granted to you by the court. The emails still have emotional power - but that is all. If you ignore them, you will slowly extinquish the power those types of emails hold until they cause you a 10 minute flash of emotion and then you will be able to move on with no urges to respond or feel like you have to defend yourself or further the interchange at all. That is how it worked for me anyway and I hope you can find a similar peace. Eventually they did quit because even alcoholics and their controlling gf's get tired of throwing words to the wind (or cyberspace).
Uncertaintly, at this point, you won. You have the power, granted to you by the court. The emails still have emotional power - but that is all. If you ignore them, you will slowly extinquish the power those types of emails hold until they cause you a 10 minute flash of emotion and then you will be able to move on with no urges to respond or feel like you have to defend yourself or further the interchange at all. That is how it worked for me anyway and I hope you can find a similar peace. Eventually they did quit because even alcoholics and their controlling gf's get tired of throwing words to the wind (or cyberspace).
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
I'm not nor ever have been in your position, so this is just me spitballing but take what you want etc.
All emotions aside, exactly what has the arrangements for access got to do with the GF? Notwithstanding she is dating your ex (and assume she is living with him?), I fail to see what on earth her social arrangements/work commitments have got to do with the schedule for parenting your son. Sounds to me like her work function and her requirement for your ex to attend takes precedence over your son (?).
She's additonal to the arrangement you have with your ex, not central.
All emotions aside, exactly what has the arrangements for access got to do with the GF? Notwithstanding she is dating your ex (and assume she is living with him?), I fail to see what on earth her social arrangements/work commitments have got to do with the schedule for parenting your son. Sounds to me like her work function and her requirement for your ex to attend takes precedence over your son (?).
She's additonal to the arrangement you have with your ex, not central.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: norwich, uk
Posts: 80
Hi
What about sticking the court agreement somewhere near your computer so that you can respond with *The court agreement says* and I'm sticking to it, or something along those lines. and leave it at that.
The last time I was going to respond to an email my XOH sent me I asked my care worker to help me coz I didn't want to get angry in an email, maybe you could do the same kind of thing with someone you trust, you could even get them to read any emails from your X and file them under *T* accordingly (trash)
What about sticking the court agreement somewhere near your computer so that you can respond with *The court agreement says* and I'm sticking to it, or something along those lines. and leave it at that.
The last time I was going to respond to an email my XOH sent me I asked my care worker to help me coz I didn't want to get angry in an email, maybe you could do the same kind of thing with someone you trust, you could even get them to read any emails from your X and file them under *T* accordingly (trash)
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I do not have experience with this sort of thing since I do not have children, but I will say from the tone of GF's email it looks like she intends to say "No" to the camping thing, or try to hold it over your head.
I would be hesitant to make any concessions to someone whose emails came off in that tone. I wouldn't want to risk opening the floodgates to allowing them more power than the courts gave them, even if the "power" is emotional.
Just my thoughts. Take what you like and leave the rest.
I would be hesitant to make any concessions to someone whose emails came off in that tone. I wouldn't want to risk opening the floodgates to allowing them more power than the courts gave them, even if the "power" is emotional.
Just my thoughts. Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Thank you all for listening to my melt down. And for pointing out the obvious (which was not obvious to me) that I do not have to respond when there is no question and that I am under no obligation to accommodate them changing the visitation plan.
DS is home now and it took an hour for him to even look at me and then he came running and sobbed that he missed me.
I am really freakin tired of her pretending to be XAH in emails. I know it's her because here is XAH's email:
No, it's not autofill messing up. That's his communication style.
I also do not believe that, short of a court order, I will ever get a weekend to go camping or be able to take a vacation longer than 5 days with DS.
Does my email really sound like I was demanding? So not only did I try to get counseling to learn to communicate with XAH before and after I left him, I need to figure out how to word it to not offend her and him....
Am I supposed to tell them that I'm spending the entire weekend Out of Town? It was really none of their business, right? They're just PO'd that I didn't cave and drive back when they'd already said they were going to go to the party? They were 20 minutes late, BTW, and didn't even come over to the birthday girl and parents to say hi, even after I left.
DS is home now and it took an hour for him to even look at me and then he came running and sobbed that he missed me.
I am really freakin tired of her pretending to be XAH in emails. I know it's her because here is XAH's email:
sense you are staying out there fir nite can you drop him off after the party that way he can stay longer. then we can drop him off at 4pm sunday nite. Let me know thanks
I also do not believe that, short of a court order, I will ever get a weekend to go camping or be able to take a vacation longer than 5 days with DS.
Does my email really sound like I was demanding? So not only did I try to get counseling to learn to communicate with XAH before and after I left him, I need to figure out how to word it to not offend her and him....
Am I supposed to tell them that I'm spending the entire weekend Out of Town? It was really none of their business, right? They're just PO'd that I didn't cave and drive back when they'd already said they were going to go to the party? They were 20 minutes late, BTW, and didn't even come over to the birthday girl and parents to say hi, even after I left.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Honestly, IMO for as long as I can recall you being on SR Uncertainty, unless I am confusing you with someone else, you have not wanted to deal with this woman at all. Why do you? There is no court order that involves her so you are under no obligation to talk to her, read her emails, or respond to her in any way. I've noticed that Dealing with her causes you distress. Do you continue to deal with her because you Feel you should so that DS has a relationship with XAH? It just seems to me that it is so problematic you could just stop.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 281
I've just been reading this thread. My God Uncertainty, no wonder your head's spinning! Mine is, just from reading it! I believe you're right. The XAH's email was definately written by the GF. And wow, if she's not a full blown codie, I don't know who is (except I could have given her a run for her money when I was with my XAH and helping him deal with contact arrangements with his ex-wife, who was having an affair with her boss, a married family law solicitor...Argh!)...I'm glad that's over....back to you now....
Naive's reply stood out for me and Lexie's and those who have said, stick to the orders and even though this makes it impossible for you to have time on weekends (did I get that right?), in time, and I have no doubt, when GF is sick and tired of babysitting her grown ass BF (I think I read grown ass here somewhere, lol), you may find yourself with more time with your son on weekends. I know how hard it is dealing with the ex's and how emotionally and mentally exhausting it can be. I hope things sort out.....
Naive's reply stood out for me and Lexie's and those who have said, stick to the orders and even though this makes it impossible for you to have time on weekends (did I get that right?), in time, and I have no doubt, when GF is sick and tired of babysitting her grown ass BF (I think I read grown ass here somewhere, lol), you may find yourself with more time with your son on weekends. I know how hard it is dealing with the ex's and how emotionally and mentally exhausting it can be. I hope things sort out.....
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 281
Yep, I agree with L2L....dealing with her is causing you distress, and why wouldn't it? It's hard enough going through separation, divorce and parenting issues without having the new GF weighing in to such as a degree, as well....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
L2L, no, you're not confusing me with some one else. IDK. I thought it would be easier dealing with her than with XAH. That is so clearly not the case. Or at least its a different kettle of worms. And everyone has been telling me I should. Ok. Not everyone, but, my psychiatrist, my lawyer, the judge, my sister... In short, the people I trusted for one reason or other.
I kept dealing with her, because, well, even with the way it is now, I still thought it's better than dealing with him.... At least I'm not afraid of her hauling off and hitting me, or choking me, or grabbing a baseball bat, or gun..... No he's never done that, but the threats were there, even if he was drunk when he made them.
Tuffgirl, I completely agree with you, he is a class-a jerk. (And that's putting it mildly.) I'm actually kind of glad to hear some one else say it, because sometimes I still wonder if it's just me.
Floss, I do not get a single full weekend. The judge said we could revise it upon mutual agreement. Which is not looking too promising right now. So, yes, I can and will try to plan some hiking and camping trips by taking vacation days.
As far as the email thing goes and her pretending to XAH.... The no contact order outlines contact only by email between me and XAH. Nothing I can do about her emailing as XAH, but d-mn.
Again, thanks, for helping with my same-old same-old issue, every one. Continued support, hope and experience always welcome. And I will try to remind myself that even though DS is only 6 yo, it doesn't mean that the next 12+ years will be like this.
I kept dealing with her, because, well, even with the way it is now, I still thought it's better than dealing with him.... At least I'm not afraid of her hauling off and hitting me, or choking me, or grabbing a baseball bat, or gun..... No he's never done that, but the threats were there, even if he was drunk when he made them.
Tuffgirl, I completely agree with you, he is a class-a jerk. (And that's putting it mildly.) I'm actually kind of glad to hear some one else say it, because sometimes I still wonder if it's just me.
Floss, I do not get a single full weekend. The judge said we could revise it upon mutual agreement. Which is not looking too promising right now. So, yes, I can and will try to plan some hiking and camping trips by taking vacation days.
As far as the email thing goes and her pretending to XAH.... The no contact order outlines contact only by email between me and XAH. Nothing I can do about her emailing as XAH, but d-mn.
Again, thanks, for helping with my same-old same-old issue, every one. Continued support, hope and experience always welcome. And I will try to remind myself that even though DS is only 6 yo, it doesn't mean that the next 12+ years will be like this.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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At least I'm not afraid of her hauling off and hitting me, or choking me, or grabbing a baseball bat, or gun..... No he's never done that, but the threats were there, even if he was drunk when he made them.
I know that's sort of a sidetrack off of your original post, but I had to say it.
So -- how long have you been divorced, again? My attorney tells me that most couples (whether there's alcohol involved or not, and, let's face it, here, there usually IS alcohol involved...) change their custody agreements 4-5 times in the first year. And if you're dealing with an active alcoholic -- well, then you've got a good shot at taking your issue up in court again... and yes, to your last insight there. You're not going to have the same situation for the next 12 years. My situation has changed twice already, and we're 2 months post-divorce...
Hang in there, and don't worry about the summer camping. It will work out somehow.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Tallulah, that made me laugh, "spitballing". Yes, XAH is living with her. A home her parents own, she's paying his bills, bought him another car, paid his half of DS's uncovered medical expenses, which worked out well for me. Actually made him go get a drivers license last Thursday and literally shoved the proof in my face tonight when we picked up DS. It will be interesting to see that one blow up, because he'll either be on her insurance or not have any. Because he feels he doesn't need any. It doesn't matter that it's a state law....
Thanks, StarCat. Again, I thought I was being too...., I guess imagining the tone.
Thanks, StarCat. Again, I thought I was being too...., I guess imagining the tone.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
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I am actually going to dig the extra copy of the court order that I'd made to take to all the name-change required places out of the recycle bin to keep handy, Greebobeebo. Along with a copy of your guidelines, Thumper. Thank you.
Lillamy, I settled for a no contact order after my request for a protective order was denied. The magistrate put it down to XAH seeming intimidating to me and differing levels of interest in sex. Apparently, I was not specific enough in my description. My lawyer for the divorce says I will now basically have to wait until XAH threatens me in front of some one else or he actually acts on his 'old' threats. Really comforting in light of the news story from Pierce County, WA.
The divorce has been final for less han 2 months. Pretty fresh...
Lillamy, I settled for a no contact order after my request for a protective order was denied. The magistrate put it down to XAH seeming intimidating to me and differing levels of interest in sex. Apparently, I was not specific enough in my description. My lawyer for the divorce says I will now basically have to wait until XAH threatens me in front of some one else or he actually acts on his 'old' threats. Really comforting in light of the news story from Pierce County, WA.
The divorce has been final for less han 2 months. Pretty fresh...
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi uncertainty-
if it was me, i would stop explaining myself. you are in the driver's seat here!
it will be difficult the first few times, but then they will get the message if you are consistent.
to her long, manipulative email, i would merely respond:
"no, i can not make that schedule change."
and that would be the entirety of my message.
i would imagine that will cause a change in their manipulation tactic, either to begin to bully you or to be really nice to you or to begin to promise things to you. i would just ignore that and get on with your life.
if it was me, i would stop explaining myself. you are in the driver's seat here!
it will be difficult the first few times, but then they will get the message if you are consistent.
to her long, manipulative email, i would merely respond:
"no, i can not make that schedule change."
and that would be the entirety of my message.
i would imagine that will cause a change in their manipulation tactic, either to begin to bully you or to be really nice to you or to begin to promise things to you. i would just ignore that and get on with your life.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
**Trigger City** Jeez, this is EXACTLY what I went through with my X and his new wife. Those long, wordy, manipulative emails from her are totally uncalled for. You've already answered the question and anything further is about her need to control and jab at you. I am practically shaking 'cause I'm so mad alllll over again and my issues have long been settled!
If the worst thing they can say about you is that you are being 'inflexible' then so what? Who cares what they think! Just keep telling DS (if he asks) that it's best if you obey what the judge told you to do.
Be prepared, though, because her codie need for control may very well ramp up before it gets better so flex those muscles, girl. Get strong. Stick to the agreement and keep your answers very, very simple and unemotional. Trust me, it's the best way.
You have been given excellent advice here and it's all very consistent.... I love Thumper's list...it's perfect!!!
I have a feeling you'll have plenty of weekends with DS... just cross that bridge when you get there.
MORE WILL BE REVEALED.
If the worst thing they can say about you is that you are being 'inflexible' then so what? Who cares what they think! Just keep telling DS (if he asks) that it's best if you obey what the judge told you to do.
Be prepared, though, because her codie need for control may very well ramp up before it gets better so flex those muscles, girl. Get strong. Stick to the agreement and keep your answers very, very simple and unemotional. Trust me, it's the best way.
You have been given excellent advice here and it's all very consistent.... I love Thumper's list...it's perfect!!!
I have a feeling you'll have plenty of weekends with DS... just cross that bridge when you get there.
MORE WILL BE REVEALED.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
So it sounds like you and I are basically on the same timeline. That's what I thought.
And wow, what a catch your ex must be to find a woman who'll do all that for him!
Why can't I find someone who buys me a car and pays my bills and handles all my issues for me? Huh? Huh? What my attorney said while I had a civil no contact order was to document every time he violates it. Because it takes more violations of that than of a protective order to do something about it. It sucks that you can't have more protection than that, but it's better than nothing. And the good part of GF being in his life is that he now has someone else to manipulate, and that probably takes some pressure off of you, right?
(What a horrid, horrid thing to say -- but you get my point, right?)Onwards & upwards. It's very helpful for me to compare notes with you.
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