Boundaries and advice
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by Live 
I think we have talked before about some similarities between our parents......all our family lives a goodly distance apart.....it would be an unimaginable disaster otherwise..but at least, we all of us in the family agree on that!
I can't imagine living any closer to my parents!
Our little get-togethers are cool because we meet on neutral grounds (small city about equal distance for everyone to drive). Then it's usually eating at a restaurant, seeing a movie, then parting ways again. That's very do-able for me.
My brother lives clear on the east coast, the lucky duck!
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Well sit back and let me tell you what I think you should do....
*kidding
Yeah, it sure it easy to see it when you're standing in your own shoes isn't it? And it's someone elses mess?
I just have to remind myself to zip my lips.
*kidding
Yeah, it sure it easy to see it when you're standing in your own shoes isn't it? And it's someone elses mess?
I just have to remind myself to zip my lips.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I have seen this trait in myself and certainly try to stop when I feel the urge to direct someone else.
It has also helps me cope with my mother's rampant advice giving and raging "you should" complex. I see it as a compulsion for her now and less as manipulation. In forgiving myself the fault, I have forgiven her, I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, she gets me crazy sometimes because it interferes with even the lightest of small talk sometimes. Mention you might rent a movie and stay in, she'll tell you what to see. Tell her you had soup for lunch and she'll tell you what soup to buy next time regardless of the fact you failed to mention the orign of yoru soup. Sometimes she gets agitated when her advice isn't received well or ignored outright. At that point, I have no choice but the end the call or leave her presence.
I often wonder if it would have made an impact with me and cured me of the affliction had someone kept this boundary with me in this way. I know if I gave unsolicited advice and they said 'gotta go, bye,' I'd be seriously kicking myself for my mistake.
I hope you find some insight in this, Live. I wish I had some to give beyond my own experience, but only because you asked. LOL!
Alice
It has also helps me cope with my mother's rampant advice giving and raging "you should" complex. I see it as a compulsion for her now and less as manipulation. In forgiving myself the fault, I have forgiven her, I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, she gets me crazy sometimes because it interferes with even the lightest of small talk sometimes. Mention you might rent a movie and stay in, she'll tell you what to see. Tell her you had soup for lunch and she'll tell you what soup to buy next time regardless of the fact you failed to mention the orign of yoru soup. Sometimes she gets agitated when her advice isn't received well or ignored outright. At that point, I have no choice but the end the call or leave her presence.
I often wonder if it would have made an impact with me and cured me of the affliction had someone kept this boundary with me in this way. I know if I gave unsolicited advice and they said 'gotta go, bye,' I'd be seriously kicking myself for my mistake.
I hope you find some insight in this, Live. I wish I had some to give beyond my own experience, but only because you asked. LOL!
Alice
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
my wonderful friend is a great listener. she has been an al-anoner for many years.
after she's done listening, she always says, "would you like feedback?"
it is so refreshing, helpful and respectful.
and i realize that after i say "yes" (which i always do) it feels not like someone has dumped their opinion and words on me, but that a thoughtful person is telling me what she thinks she has heard, and what might be going on. it's a great tool for processing.
i recently ended a serious, and toxic relationship. months afterwards, just last night in fact, she told me how happy she is for me for where i'm at right now, and how much i deserve to be treated with kindness and respect and loving actions. i said "really?" she said, "well, yeah, you have had so much misery over the past couple of years". point being, she stood at a distance and saw, and felt, that i was in pain, but she didn't step across that line and tell me what she was seeing. she knew that i needed to figure things out for myself, and by myself - for the most part anyway, with help from supportive friends of course.
and the real point, is that those kind of non-judgmental friends are the ones i cherish. i wouldn't have gotten any further by someone harshly telling me what they think about my choices, what i should do, etc.
i also had dinner with another friend couple days ago. i said, "the last time we were together, i talked a little about my heartwrenching decision: to stay or to go. and you simply said, 'i know you will make the right decision'. i want to tell you how much that meant to me." he just smiled.
after she's done listening, she always says, "would you like feedback?"
it is so refreshing, helpful and respectful.
and i realize that after i say "yes" (which i always do) it feels not like someone has dumped their opinion and words on me, but that a thoughtful person is telling me what she thinks she has heard, and what might be going on. it's a great tool for processing.
i recently ended a serious, and toxic relationship. months afterwards, just last night in fact, she told me how happy she is for me for where i'm at right now, and how much i deserve to be treated with kindness and respect and loving actions. i said "really?" she said, "well, yeah, you have had so much misery over the past couple of years". point being, she stood at a distance and saw, and felt, that i was in pain, but she didn't step across that line and tell me what she was seeing. she knew that i needed to figure things out for myself, and by myself - for the most part anyway, with help from supportive friends of course.
and the real point, is that those kind of non-judgmental friends are the ones i cherish. i wouldn't have gotten any further by someone harshly telling me what they think about my choices, what i should do, etc.
i also had dinner with another friend couple days ago. i said, "the last time we were together, i talked a little about my heartwrenching decision: to stay or to go. and you simply said, 'i know you will make the right decision'. i want to tell you how much that meant to me." he just smiled.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Alice, I find this to be true as well, and well worth the hassle because forgiving myself can sometimes be quite a chore.
And Coffee I LOVE your entire post. I aspire to be that kind of person and in fact, this kind of loving patience that allows others to walk their path is a reflection of my spirituality; I believe this is how my HP helps me. When I call for help, if I"m quiet enough, the answers are always there. It's my job to put my feet on that road. I'm allowed to experience consequences for my choices.
Beautiful!
In forgiving myself the fault, I have forgiven her, I suppose.
And Coffee I LOVE your entire post. I aspire to be that kind of person and in fact, this kind of loving patience that allows others to walk their path is a reflection of my spirituality; I believe this is how my HP helps me. When I call for help, if I"m quiet enough, the answers are always there. It's my job to put my feet on that road. I'm allowed to experience consequences for my choices.
Beautiful!
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Originally Posted by Live
When I want advice I ask for it.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
live
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
live
I am not the best listener, and for a while I have been trying to counter the "you shoulds" by offering my own story in reply, in an attempt to show empathy without advice, but I think that often comes off as "story topping" and I think I (and everyone around me) would benefit if I took an active listening class.
I know I need to step back here from immediate posting as my first response, my reaction, is about me, not the poster. I gain much from reading posts and responses, I often work out a long response, going back to it time after time over hours sometimes and then deleting the whole thing because I realise I am using someone elses situation to work through my own thoughts, which benefits me hugely, but again, is not what they are asking for.
after she's done listening, she always says, "would you like feedback?"
Boundaries: I'm rubbish. You call me a chair: I think I'm a chair, you hand me responsibilities even after the fact and I have many difficulties not taking them off of you. I am struggling with a clear boundary issue now that involves family, me trying to do "a nice, normal thing" for our children, them enjoying the nice thing, but tons of dysfunction errupting around me because of it.
I am fighting a drive to engage and explain to those who are upset with me, that their interpretation of my actions and motives is entirely wrong (and they have jumped to the worse case scenario for both). I am now clear that the upset is not my responsibility, my actions and motives were entirely benign, I am just struggling to release myself from the need to explain, to counter, although I know that would probably just be misinterpreted again.
I'm sitting on it, and I'm coming to the belief that the boundary can be a silent one, that I just won't attempt that nice thing again, because although the children do benefit, the responsibility for providing this benefit isn't mine and until those involved can sort themselves out, the fallout isn't worth it.see: made it all about me again
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Glad you are posting this topic as it has been recently sensitive here.
We all have opinions and we all have experience. These vary greatly in some cases, but with our A experiences not much variety unfortunately. Commone themes, progressions, etc...
However, we all move along at our own paces. When I was first here people told me things I wasn't ready to hear. I can't remember getting angry, but I do remember tuning them out. Later, when I was ready, I understood what they were talking about. I think that happens here a great deal.
Different perspectives gives us a huge opportunity for growth. Some people tell things we already knew, some tell us things we are not yet ready to hear. However, these things are just words on an internet forum. I have never read anyone being verbally abusive to another here. This is a nice part of our forum, I think.
Like above posters wrote, we can always ignore what we don't want to hear for whatever reason.
We all have opinions and we all have experience. These vary greatly in some cases, but with our A experiences not much variety unfortunately. Commone themes, progressions, etc...
However, we all move along at our own paces. When I was first here people told me things I wasn't ready to hear. I can't remember getting angry, but I do remember tuning them out. Later, when I was ready, I understood what they were talking about. I think that happens here a great deal.
Different perspectives gives us a huge opportunity for growth. Some people tell things we already knew, some tell us things we are not yet ready to hear. However, these things are just words on an internet forum. I have never read anyone being verbally abusive to another here. This is a nice part of our forum, I think.
Like above posters wrote, we can always ignore what we don't want to hear for whatever reason.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
It was a HUGE shock to realize that I love to give unsolicited advice. I learned it many years ago when with a close friend, who's father was dying. I decided she should use the 12 Steps to get through it and told her what to do. Our friendship ended. Fortunately we patched it up and are best friends again.
Thanks for reminding me not to do this. It's so much easier to tell YOU what to do than to face my own problems
Thanks for reminding me not to do this. It's so much easier to tell YOU what to do than to face my own problems
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
By now everyone here is probably well aware that I'm a dog lover. A HUGE dog lover. I love them for many reasons, but probably the biggest reason is because they are my voiceless friends. They can't speak, so they listen. And because of that, it seems they've turned listening into an art form. They can pick up on the slightest nuances of my moods, my actions, and my movements. They never judge. They always forgive my transgressions--even when I'm in no mood to interact with them much beyond meeting their most basic needs of food, a warm place to rest, and a good place to potty.
I have a friend named Julie. She is another dog lover. In fact, I met her at the animal shelter where I volunteer. We used to meet for lunch once a week. She took photos of the dogs for posting our website and we'd meet for lunch to exchange the photos so I could scan them and post them on the animal shelter's website (I was their webmaster).
This went on for months and then years, and over time our friendship grew. So, she was well aware of the hellish situation I found myself in as Richard's alcoholism progressed. I grew to love and respect her and I relied on her immensely during that time because she, too, had learned the art of listening. She would listen to my troubles, restate what I'd told her so I knew she was listening and felt understood, and then she'd offer me a shoulder to lean on, but no advice.
From Julie and my dogs I've learned that listening is perhaps one of the greatest gifts I can give people. Perhaps even when advice IS solicited, all that is really wanted is someone who can lend and ear and listen--really listen so that people will know that they are finally being heard and from that simple act of listening they know that they are finally being understood--and accepted for who they are at this moment in their life.
Perhaps even better than listening would be to listen fully and then repeat back to the person what I believe I've heard. That way, they know that I am interested in what they have to say, that I understand it fully, and I am not offering advice or being judgmental. I am simply listening and understanding and being there for them and loving them and not being judgmental in any way. Just like my dogs. My lovely voiceless friends who think that with all my flaws that I am near close to perfect.
So my friend, Live, I am all ears. Because I consider you a friend and because I have much to learn from you.
As I type this two of my four dogs are laying on the bed at my side. You can learn a lot from a dog. I love them so.
I have a friend named Julie. She is another dog lover. In fact, I met her at the animal shelter where I volunteer. We used to meet for lunch once a week. She took photos of the dogs for posting our website and we'd meet for lunch to exchange the photos so I could scan them and post them on the animal shelter's website (I was their webmaster).
This went on for months and then years, and over time our friendship grew. So, she was well aware of the hellish situation I found myself in as Richard's alcoholism progressed. I grew to love and respect her and I relied on her immensely during that time because she, too, had learned the art of listening. She would listen to my troubles, restate what I'd told her so I knew she was listening and felt understood, and then she'd offer me a shoulder to lean on, but no advice.
From Julie and my dogs I've learned that listening is perhaps one of the greatest gifts I can give people. Perhaps even when advice IS solicited, all that is really wanted is someone who can lend and ear and listen--really listen so that people will know that they are finally being heard and from that simple act of listening they know that they are finally being understood--and accepted for who they are at this moment in their life.
Perhaps even better than listening would be to listen fully and then repeat back to the person what I believe I've heard. That way, they know that I am interested in what they have to say, that I understand it fully, and I am not offering advice or being judgmental. I am simply listening and understanding and being there for them and loving them and not being judgmental in any way. Just like my dogs. My lovely voiceless friends who think that with all my flaws that I am near close to perfect.
So my friend, Live, I am all ears. Because I consider you a friend and because I have much to learn from you.
As I type this two of my four dogs are laying on the bed at my side. You can learn a lot from a dog. I love them so.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: southport merseyside
Posts: 536
i too when i first joined here didnt want to listen fought against any advice given and still do and had many run ins with live didnt we but it was cos i didnt wanna listen and finally ive admitted defeat and admitted to myself i can listen to the advice but only me deciedes what to do next take what u like eh and leave the rest "loves u live " xxx
and had many run ins with live didnt we but it was cos i didnt wanna listen and finally ive admitted defeat and admitted to myself i can listen to the advice but only me deciedes what to do next take what u like eh and leave the rest "loves u live " xxx
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 222
Thank you for this thread. I went looking for furniture yesterday..as I cannot let myself go back to get my old stuff. Pain too fresh.wan t still there but lessening.. the salesman asked me what I like and I didnt know how to answer! I felt I was going over the deep end. How do I not know what I like!? I am 40 yrs old an d everyone has either given me their throw offs or manipulated me into choosing what they wanted. I am determined to not run "will he like it" through my head again. My clothes...my old household things..a purse I hated..boots i didnt want. I lost myself in him. He didnt want me anymore because I was a reflection of him. Thanking God each day because my world is getting brighter.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
What an awesome thread and add me to the list of those who at sheepishly raising there hand and saying "yup, me too!"
...but what you really SHOULD think ;-)
I think this thread belongs in the stickies. Great wisdom for this forum and for life.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
...but what you really SHOULD think ;-)
I think this thread belongs in the stickies. Great wisdom for this forum and for life.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
I read the whole thread again twice. After growing up with an npd mom I allowed my ex to stomp across my boundaries.
I remember her saying that the particularly cruel putsowns were for my own good and she was just trying to 'motivate me'
That is abuse, all the more so when dressed up as for our own good.
I remember her saying that the particularly cruel putsowns were for my own good and she was just trying to 'motivate me'
That is abuse, all the more so when dressed up as for our own good.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Uk
Posts: 6
i'm new,found this very helpful! I have set my very first boundary with my husband.
i went to a coda meeting last wk (new & still feeling my way but think it's helping). someone in the group is pushing for my tel no./email - finding her v pushy. then at the last meeting she pushed a card into my hand & said,"and you can read that out for me". i'm not ready for that yet & told her.
i find her domineering/bullying. i've coped well with it so far. i can see how people ware me down to get what they want!!!
i went to a coda meeting last wk (new & still feeling my way but think it's helping). someone in the group is pushing for my tel no./email - finding her v pushy. then at the last meeting she pushed a card into my hand & said,"and you can read that out for me". i'm not ready for that yet & told her.
i find her domineering/bullying. i've coped well with it so far. i can see how people ware me down to get what they want!!!
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