acceptance and not judging others
I Love Who I Am
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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acceptance and not judging others
My neighbors, and good friends are parent to an only child -a 9 year old girl, who plays every day, all day with my 9 year old son. We've been friends forever, but I moved to a house across the street from them last september.
YOu may remember my issue with our different "how to ride your bike in the road" rules that I posed a while back.
I really like these people and we've built a nice little system of shared child care here, but their parenting techniques really, really drive me crazy. I'm actually horrified.
I have never heard a child speak to her parents the way they allow her to. It makes me furious. Why? I don't think it's co-dependence because it's so freaking insane. But it has to be on me, because that's what I learn here and at al anon. It's on me when I don't like something and want to intervene.
Here's the latest example, just to justify my reaction, even though I need to adjust my reaction, which is the topic of this post:
I"m taking the kids for a bike ride. Her father comes over to beg her to eat. She turns her nose in the air at everything he offers, until demanding, "why don't you just go inside and make me a peanut butter sandwhich." he turns to go in and she says, "and cut the crust off." She doesn't look at him. She looks away with an air of disgust when talking to him. I'm not making this up! It happens every day.
Unbelievably, he returns moments later with exactly what she's ordered, and says, "I didn't cut it in half because you'll be riding a bike while eating," to which she replies, "as if I didn't notice." Again, not even looking at him, but with a slighy smile.
I'n not making this up. It's all I can do to not intervene, right then and there. I'm embarrassed for the parent, I think they've created a MONSTER who-I do need to say, has witnessed my parenting techniques with my two sons and for some reason, really really likes me and brings me presents and wants to be in our house all the time. She even told her mom I should be President!
If my son ever, EVER spoke to me that way he'd be picking himself up off the other side of the room. Not literally, but he'd sure as hell wouldn't be going on a bike ride. Or eating!
Ok, enough ranting.
Now, my issue is letting all of this go, not reacting in the moment with astonishment, which I'm having a hard time doing. My 9 year old has tried, once, to talk to me that way and I said, "we don't talk that way at our house." and it stopped. This was in front of them too.
I am SO uncomfortable when this happens. There's no reason for me to talk to them about it, but it's all I can do to stop myself from asking
What the Eff are you doing? What the hell is wrong with you?
Why do you think it's ok to let her talk to you this way?
What benefit do you think this will have in her life?
I know it's not my problem, and I don't think I would be witness to this if I hadn't moved in across the street. With me, she listens and does what I say. It's so freaking bizarre...
YOu may remember my issue with our different "how to ride your bike in the road" rules that I posed a while back.
I really like these people and we've built a nice little system of shared child care here, but their parenting techniques really, really drive me crazy. I'm actually horrified.
I have never heard a child speak to her parents the way they allow her to. It makes me furious. Why? I don't think it's co-dependence because it's so freaking insane. But it has to be on me, because that's what I learn here and at al anon. It's on me when I don't like something and want to intervene.
Here's the latest example, just to justify my reaction, even though I need to adjust my reaction, which is the topic of this post:
I"m taking the kids for a bike ride. Her father comes over to beg her to eat. She turns her nose in the air at everything he offers, until demanding, "why don't you just go inside and make me a peanut butter sandwhich." he turns to go in and she says, "and cut the crust off." She doesn't look at him. She looks away with an air of disgust when talking to him. I'm not making this up! It happens every day.
Unbelievably, he returns moments later with exactly what she's ordered, and says, "I didn't cut it in half because you'll be riding a bike while eating," to which she replies, "as if I didn't notice." Again, not even looking at him, but with a slighy smile.
I'n not making this up. It's all I can do to not intervene, right then and there. I'm embarrassed for the parent, I think they've created a MONSTER who-I do need to say, has witnessed my parenting techniques with my two sons and for some reason, really really likes me and brings me presents and wants to be in our house all the time. She even told her mom I should be President!
If my son ever, EVER spoke to me that way he'd be picking himself up off the other side of the room. Not literally, but he'd sure as hell wouldn't be going on a bike ride. Or eating!
Ok, enough ranting.
Now, my issue is letting all of this go, not reacting in the moment with astonishment, which I'm having a hard time doing. My 9 year old has tried, once, to talk to me that way and I said, "we don't talk that way at our house." and it stopped. This was in front of them too.
I am SO uncomfortable when this happens. There's no reason for me to talk to them about it, but it's all I can do to stop myself from asking
What the Eff are you doing? What the hell is wrong with you?
Why do you think it's ok to let her talk to you this way?
What benefit do you think this will have in her life?
I know it's not my problem, and I don't think I would be witness to this if I hadn't moved in across the street. With me, she listens and does what I say. It's so freaking bizarre...
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
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Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The past decade or maybe more, a lot of parents have pretty much stopped disciplining their kids and it definitely shows. We could argue all day about whether or not to spank our kids or whatever and nothing would ever get settled. All I know is that I would never EVER have dared to speak to either of my parents in a disrespectful manner and it wasn't because I was afraid of them, it was because I DID respect them as my parents. Respect has to be earned and there are ways to earn it without fear. Evidently, these parents are the kind who just let their kids get away with stuff like that and really, it's not the kids' fault, it's the parents.
But, back to your dilemma...no, you can't light into them about it even though it's very tempting to do so. It's really a matter of...they made their bed, now they have to lie in it. One thing though, you said you're moving in a couple of weeks, so you won't have to be witness to it anymore, right?
But, back to your dilemma...no, you can't light into them about it even though it's very tempting to do so. It's really a matter of...they made their bed, now they have to lie in it. One thing though, you said you're moving in a couple of weeks, so you won't have to be witness to it anymore, right?
I Love Who I Am
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
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Suki, I"m moving a half block away. And to be fair, I she's fine at my house, which I think is why I'm so shocked to hear and see her do this with her parents.
Also, I HATE it when parents judge other parents. When other parents have issues, I am supportive because I know how hard it is. But this makes no sense to me. None. Her paretns come from affluent, upper middle class backgrounds, with two parents who loved each other and their kids. They live with the maternal in-laws! An extended family.
Also, I HATE it when parents judge other parents. When other parents have issues, I am supportive because I know how hard it is. But this makes no sense to me. None. Her paretns come from affluent, upper middle class backgrounds, with two parents who loved each other and their kids. They live with the maternal in-laws! An extended family.
A work in progress
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Yeah, it creeps me out, too.
My kids' stepmom used to pay them for picking up their stuff. My older son commented to me, once, after he was grown up, that he thought it was good that I sometimes said, "No," as opposed to their stepmom's ready accommodation of their every wish.
Their stepmom is a kind and lovely woman who has had many alcoholics in her family. I'm sure that's where a lot of the "people pleasing" (even of little people who don't get a vote) comes from. I was careful not to criticize her parenting, though I always made sure my kids knew *I* was not gonna pay them to pick up their own stuff.
The Little Princess will get her hard knocks later in life, I'm afraid. I understand the urge to scream, but I think you are smart to stay out of it. Short of actual abuse, people have the right to raise their kids as they see fit.
My kids' stepmom used to pay them for picking up their stuff. My older son commented to me, once, after he was grown up, that he thought it was good that I sometimes said, "No," as opposed to their stepmom's ready accommodation of their every wish.
Their stepmom is a kind and lovely woman who has had many alcoholics in her family. I'm sure that's where a lot of the "people pleasing" (even of little people who don't get a vote) comes from. I was careful not to criticize her parenting, though I always made sure my kids knew *I* was not gonna pay them to pick up their own stuff.
The Little Princess will get her hard knocks later in life, I'm afraid. I understand the urge to scream, but I think you are smart to stay out of it. Short of actual abuse, people have the right to raise their kids as they see fit.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
And to be fair, I she's fine at my house, which I think is why I'm so shocked to hear and see her do this with her parents.
Which just confirms that her parents have not earned her respect and you have. Kids WANT guidelines and rules and yes, even discipline. That's how they learn. When they don't get that, they are out of control and act just like this little girl is acting. She knows she can't get away with that behavior at your house, but she can at her own house, so she does.
Which just confirms that her parents have not earned her respect and you have. Kids WANT guidelines and rules and yes, even discipline. That's how they learn. When they don't get that, they are out of control and act just like this little girl is acting. She knows she can't get away with that behavior at your house, but she can at her own house, so she does.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
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These are the little kids that grow up to be big kids and have huge resentments about never having any direction or discipline in life, once they find out the world doesn't revolve around them. It's sad.. but frankly nothing you can do. 
Before I was a parent, I would see kids like this and think 'Oh she'll get hers, later when she sees not everyone will bend to every whim', but that is NOT fair, because it's not the kids' fault. And now, as a parent (albeit a NEW parent), I know how moldable/pliable these little minds and spirits can be, in wonderful ways, and horrible ways too. Tough situation for sure, but I'm glad she's good at your house.
Before I was a parent, I would see kids like this and think 'Oh she'll get hers, later when she sees not everyone will bend to every whim', but that is NOT fair, because it's not the kids' fault. And now, as a parent (albeit a NEW parent), I know how moldable/pliable these little minds and spirits can be, in wonderful ways, and horrible ways too. Tough situation for sure, but I'm glad she's good at your house.
I Love Who I Am
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Well the whole things is making me sick. No, she doesn't respect her dad, her smirk while speaking to him that way totally freaks me out. She's nine! I am building resentment, which I guess is why I posted this. I shouldn't resent her, because she's nine, but I don't hang out with women who behave this way. I don't spend time with people who are little assholes.
I may actually talk to her directly about this. The girl. I"ve thought about saying, simply, "I'm not sure why you're so rude to your father. He made you a sandwhich and brought it out to you. I would think you'd be grateful, instead of ridiculing him."
My other option is to tell them how uncomfortable I am. But what the hell would I say? "why on the face of gods green earth do you allow, and by allowing encourage, your daughter to disrespect you this way?"
Or I could just let it go. I haven't decided yet what to do. I just hope I don't snap one day and blurt something out-that is a very real concern, so I'd rather have a conversation with them away from her when things are heated.
Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll say, "listen,I have a hard time not disciplining your daughter when she speaks to you this way. I am doing my best, and so far have succeeded, in keeping my mouth shut, but you know me, and I"m afraid one day when I haven't enough sleep or whatever, I'm going to tell her-and you-waht I think of this. So can we talk about it now?"
I may actually talk to her directly about this. The girl. I"ve thought about saying, simply, "I'm not sure why you're so rude to your father. He made you a sandwhich and brought it out to you. I would think you'd be grateful, instead of ridiculing him."
My other option is to tell them how uncomfortable I am. But what the hell would I say? "why on the face of gods green earth do you allow, and by allowing encourage, your daughter to disrespect you this way?"
Or I could just let it go. I haven't decided yet what to do. I just hope I don't snap one day and blurt something out-that is a very real concern, so I'd rather have a conversation with them away from her when things are heated.
Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll say, "listen,I have a hard time not disciplining your daughter when she speaks to you this way. I am doing my best, and so far have succeeded, in keeping my mouth shut, but you know me, and I"m afraid one day when I haven't enough sleep or whatever, I'm going to tell her-and you-waht I think of this. So can we talk about it now?"
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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This is the same issue that has been bothering me lately about my BF's kids. Thanks for sharing.
I set the rules for behavior in my house. I try not to be judgmental and try to use a kind tone of voice when I talk to them about what I expect in my own home. IMO, 9 y.o. is old enough for her to understand that there are different rules at your house than there might be somewhere else. You can just point out to her kindly that you notice she talks to her father a certain way and you would like her not to talk to her father that way when she is at YOUR house.
Sometimes, though, I realize it is also a boundary issue. They can be very toxic little people so I have to do what needs to be done to protect me. I have a very low tolerance for poison, no matter how old the person delivering it is.
I set the rules for behavior in my house. I try not to be judgmental and try to use a kind tone of voice when I talk to them about what I expect in my own home. IMO, 9 y.o. is old enough for her to understand that there are different rules at your house than there might be somewhere else. You can just point out to her kindly that you notice she talks to her father a certain way and you would like her not to talk to her father that way when she is at YOUR house.
Sometimes, though, I realize it is also a boundary issue. They can be very toxic little people so I have to do what needs to be done to protect me. I have a very low tolerance for poison, no matter how old the person delivering it is.
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Originally Posted by transformyself 
Well the whole things is making me sick. No, she doesn't respect her dad, her smirk while speaking to him that way totally freaks me out. She's nine! I am building resentment, which I guess is why I posted this. I shouldn't resent her, because she's nine, but I don't hang out with women who behave this way. I don't spend time with people who are little assholes.
I may actually talk to her directly about this. The girl. I"ve thought about saying, simply, "I'm not sure why you're so rude to your father. He made you a sandwhich and brought it out to you. I would think you'd be grateful, instead of ridiculing him."
My other option is to tell them how uncomfortable I am. But what the hell would I say? "why on the face of gods green earth do you allow, and by allowing encourage, your daughter to disrespect you this way?"
Or I could just let it go. I haven't decided yet what to do. I just hope I don't snap one day and blurt something out-that is a very real concern, so I'd rather have a conversation with them away from her when things are heated.
Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll say, "listen,I have a hard time not disciplining your daughter when she speaks to you this way. I am doing my best, and so far have succeeded, in keeping my mouth shut, but you know me, and I"m afraid one day when I haven't enough sleep or whatever, I'm going to tell her-and you-waht I think of this. So can we talk about it now?"
I may actually talk to her directly about this. The girl. I"ve thought about saying, simply, "I'm not sure why you're so rude to your father. He made you a sandwhich and brought it out to you. I would think you'd be grateful, instead of ridiculing him."
My other option is to tell them how uncomfortable I am. But what the hell would I say? "why on the face of gods green earth do you allow, and by allowing encourage, your daughter to disrespect you this way?"
Or I could just let it go. I haven't decided yet what to do. I just hope I don't snap one day and blurt something out-that is a very real concern, so I'd rather have a conversation with them away from her when things are heated.
Maybe I'll do that. Maybe I'll say, "listen,I have a hard time not disciplining your daughter when she speaks to you this way. I am doing my best, and so far have succeeded, in keeping my mouth shut, but you know me, and I"m afraid one day when I haven't enough sleep or whatever, I'm going to tell her-and you-waht I think of this. So can we talk about it now?"
As to why dad puts up with it.....that is likely to be far too complex a conundrum to explore here. Off the top of my head, I'd hazard a guess that somehow or another he is intimidated by females. Is there a son in the house? Does he act with the same disrespect?
I'm reminded that good old Dr. Spock has written THE MANUAL on parenting....several times. Each time, over the years, it has been different. I think parenting may be the greatest (and ideally the most rewarding) challenge in the adult world. I've yet to meet a perfect parent. And with every new parenting "theory" I become more and more convinced that we may never actually get it "right." and perhaps that is exactly how it should be: we accumulate emotional baggage in childhood, and get to resolve it (or not) as adults.
blessings
zenbear
I Love Who I Am
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Thanks, everyone. So I think I've figured this out.
It's her. I don't want to associate with anyone, even a 9 year old, capable of being this calculated and mean. But she is 9 years old, so what do I do about that. And she doesn't treat ME this way.
It's her. I don't want to associate with anyone, even a 9 year old, capable of being this calculated and mean. But she is 9 years old, so what do I do about that. And she doesn't treat ME this way.
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No doubt this is distressing to witness, but remember, you don't know all the ins and outs of their parent-child relationship... this may well be the parents' lesson to learn; but you can't teach it to them. (I do get some flak from my non AA and Alanon friends and family about my laissez-faire attitude regarding others' issues, but I strongly believe that: 1. Life is difficult and complex and 2. Adults have to figure out life for themselves and trying to do it for them is largely wasted effort, no matter how obvious their mistakes are to onlookers.)
For example, I picked up my daughter at her dad's recently and discussed some child care issues with him while she retrieved her shoes. His gf was in the background interrupting at regular intervals to tell him what to do. I was really tempted to tell her to clam up and let him speak for himself, but it's not my business. Either he learns to set boundaries or he doesn't. She can either learn to let go, or be dragged, as we say. I can't help. Anyway, for all I know, he may like being bossed around.
The part we can do something about is our own reactions to these situations: let it go. Being annoyed about things that happen to us may be involuntary, but feeling irritated on behalf of others is a choice. I noticed that I felt unusually carefree and happy as my daughter and I drove away, although dealing with the two of them is generally exhausting and draining to me.
For example, I picked up my daughter at her dad's recently and discussed some child care issues with him while she retrieved her shoes. His gf was in the background interrupting at regular intervals to tell him what to do. I was really tempted to tell her to clam up and let him speak for himself, but it's not my business. Either he learns to set boundaries or he doesn't. She can either learn to let go, or be dragged, as we say. I can't help. Anyway, for all I know, he may like being bossed around.
The part we can do something about is our own reactions to these situations: let it go. Being annoyed about things that happen to us may be involuntary, but feeling irritated on behalf of others is a choice. I noticed that I felt unusually carefree and happy as my daughter and I drove away, although dealing with the two of them is generally exhausting and draining to me.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,915
The part we can do something about is our own reactions to these situations: let it go. Being annoyed about things that happen to us may be involuntary, but feeling irritated on behalf of others is a choice. I noticed that I felt unusually carefree and happy as my daughter and I drove away, although dealing with the two of them is generally exhausting and draining to me.
I agree with this 100%. The only one making you sick over this is you. As you said in another thread...we make ourselves sick by the things we say to ourselves.
I agree with this 100%. The only one making you sick over this is you. As you said in another thread...we make ourselves sick by the things we say to ourselves.
I Love Who I Am
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I just started putting boundaries in place. I just had a conversation with the dad about one of their dogs (there's a whole other nightmare) that is dangerous. My boy told me recently he's been "out of his room" when the kids are over there, which is not acceptable because he's so freaking aggressive, especially to boys.
I asked the dad about it, and when he started to answer me, she interrupted him, also talking, "well, actually it's ok because-" but I said to her, "I was asking your dad," and she stopped and he and I had a conversation about his dog and my kids safety. The dad knows the dog is potentially dangerous and is very careful to keep him put in a seperate room when anyone is over.
I'm not a jerk that hates kids and thinks they shouldn't talk but that is my boundary with her.
Likewise with tv watching-they are basically not allowed over there anyway because she is allowed unlimited and unsupervised tv watching and my kids have see very inappropriate stuff over there. We don't even have cable, just a tv and dvd player, so they feel like I"m being unfair. I don't give a crap, Family Guy is not appropriate for 9 year olds and I'm the parent in this house.
This is so true. It's what I"m looking for, how to minimize my reaction and judgment. I'm glad I came here to process. I've been really afraid I'm going to say something in the moment that is inappropriate and I'll regret. So, I'll work on letting it go.
I'll also continue to put boundaries in place with the girl and let go of resentment I'm building towards her for spiteful the way she treats her parents.
I'll let go of resentment I'm building towards them for creating what I believe to be a child with a narcissistic disorder with their permissive parenting.
God knows I'm not perfect either. I'll just try to keep my side of the street clean.
I asked the dad about it, and when he started to answer me, she interrupted him, also talking, "well, actually it's ok because-" but I said to her, "I was asking your dad," and she stopped and he and I had a conversation about his dog and my kids safety. The dad knows the dog is potentially dangerous and is very careful to keep him put in a seperate room when anyone is over.
I'm not a jerk that hates kids and thinks they shouldn't talk but that is my boundary with her.
Likewise with tv watching-they are basically not allowed over there anyway because she is allowed unlimited and unsupervised tv watching and my kids have see very inappropriate stuff over there. We don't even have cable, just a tv and dvd player, so they feel like I"m being unfair. I don't give a crap, Family Guy is not appropriate for 9 year olds and I'm the parent in this house.
Being annoyed about things that happen to us may be involuntary, but feeling irritated on behalf of others is a choice. I noticed that I felt unusually carefree and happy as my daughter and I drove away, although dealing with the two of them is generally exhausting and draining to me.
I'll also continue to put boundaries in place with the girl and let go of resentment I'm building towards her for spiteful the way she treats her parents.
I'll let go of resentment I'm building towards them for creating what I believe to be a child with a narcissistic disorder with their permissive parenting.
God knows I'm not perfect either. I'll just try to keep my side of the street clean.
To thine own self be true.
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Likewise with tv watching-they are basically not allowed over there anyway because she is allowed unlimited and unsupervised tv watching and my kids have see very inappropriate stuff over there. We don't even have cable, just a tv and dvd player, so they feel like I"m being unfair. I don't give a crap, Family Guy is not appropriate for 9 year olds and I'm the parent in this house.
These are your values Transform, don't compromise. Stand strong in confidence that you are doing the right things by your kids. Trust your instincts.
I think you are doing great.
I Love Who I Am
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Thanks L2L, and everyone.
The dad just came over as i was trimming the bushes to help me (he really is a good person and friend it's part of why I'm so confused by all this) and as we were working he told me how he would have never been able to get away with what my middle son does, by that he means not mowing the lawn and giving me a hassle when i ask him to do things. He did it in a funny way, called him "the slug."
Luckily, I just came from yoga. Still, at first I was mad. But the more i think about it, the more I realize I have many choices; tell him how i feel with compassion, let go and get over it, or build resentment.
I am glad I can come here and process and get help, because I"m not comfortable talking to any of my IRL friends, they all know him and it would feel like gossip.
The dad just came over as i was trimming the bushes to help me (he really is a good person and friend it's part of why I'm so confused by all this) and as we were working he told me how he would have never been able to get away with what my middle son does, by that he means not mowing the lawn and giving me a hassle when i ask him to do things. He did it in a funny way, called him "the slug."
Luckily, I just came from yoga. Still, at first I was mad. But the more i think about it, the more I realize I have many choices; tell him how i feel with compassion, let go and get over it, or build resentment.
I am glad I can come here and process and get help, because I"m not comfortable talking to any of my IRL friends, they all know him and it would feel like gossip.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
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I too think you should be president. I would also be a little frustrated in your shoes. I think it's fine to "judge" others relative to our own beliefs, just do thes serenity prayer thing. You seem to hace excellent rapport with the little princess, and she seems to respect the different rules of engagement in your household. Accordingly, you've had a positive impact on her. Her parents lost cause. As long as she isn't bossy and controlling with you son your golden. Bravo! I'm nominating you for Sainthood as well. Just my take....
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