did any of you ever just, come right out and say it?
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Yeah, whenever I feel tempted to contact my XABF, I just go back and re-read some of our instant message threads. Talk about exercises in futility. All it did was make me look like some kind of crazy control freak to him.
Originally Posted by Thumper 
This thread is a good example of the fact that it really doesn't matter what we say, when we say it, how we say it, if we say it rarely, often, loudly, quietly, kindly, meanly.
Our words just don't matter one way or another when it comes down to it.
We talk until we are tired of talking, and then we walk. There are a rare few who have partners that find true recovery - and even then - it had nothing to do with anything we said or how and when we said it.
When I think to much about it is the only time I get mad at myself for spending so many years trying to manage a situation that wasn't mine to manage. The endless negative cycle of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I got sick of my own self. Ugh, even a drunk has to get fed up with that at some point.
Our words just don't matter one way or another when it comes down to it.
We talk until we are tired of talking, and then we walk. There are a rare few who have partners that find true recovery - and even then - it had nothing to do with anything we said or how and when we said it.
When I think to much about it is the only time I get mad at myself for spending so many years trying to manage a situation that wasn't mine to manage. The endless negative cycle of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I got sick of my own self. Ugh, even a drunk has to get fed up with that at some point.
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My (R)AH told me many years ago that he was "probably an alcoholic" after I mentioned that he'd been drinking way too much. Over the years it's gotten worse and denial kicked in. In the past 2 months he's been hospitalized twice. Once for an extreme case of gout in his elbow and shoulder (also treated with thiamin for withdrawl) and the second for encephalopathy due to a spike in his ammonia level because his liver was not working properly. He's been trying to quit for 18 months, without success. He refuses to get help stating that he can do it on his own and he hates to talk about it with me because I end up crying and he doesn't want to deal with that. He never said the word "alcoholic" again after that one time many years ago until this last hospitalization. It's almost like he chokes on the word.
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My x has all these misguided notions about alcoholism and what constitutes an "alcoholic":
1) an alcoholic is someone who is weak-willed. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
2) an alcoholic is someone who can't keep a job. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
3) an alcoholic is someone who is drunk all the time. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
He went to a couple of AA meetings-with hindsight I think this was just to get me back after we broke up. All he did was complain about THOSE people there and how lame, weak, etc. they were.
1) an alcoholic is someone who is weak-willed. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
2) an alcoholic is someone who can't keep a job. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
3) an alcoholic is someone who is drunk all the time. Therefore, he is not an alcoholic.
He went to a couple of AA meetings-with hindsight I think this was just to get me back after we broke up. All he did was complain about THOSE people there and how lame, weak, etc. they were.
Originally Posted by IceIt
My (R)AH told me many years ago that he was "probably an alcoholic" after I mentioned that he'd been drinking way too much. Over the years it's gotten worse and denial kicked in. In the past 2 months he's been hospitalized twice. Once for an extreme case of gout in his elbow and shoulder (also treated with thiamin for withdrawl) and the second for encephalopathy due to a spike in his ammonia level because his liver was not working properly. He's been trying to quit for 18 months, without success. He refuses to get help stating that he can do it on his own and he hates to talk about it with me because I end up crying and he doesn't want to deal with that. He never said the word "alcoholic" again after that one time many years ago until this last hospitalization. It's almost like he chokes on the word.
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My XAH also had those misguided notions about what alcoholics are and aren't. These delusions made it possible for him to keep on drinking all the while feeling superior to others. It's actually quite a neat trick 
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Sandrawg, She has not gone to Al-Anon. She has said since October that she was going to go but to no avail...I can not make her. I have suggested, given her schedules, given #'s to spouses in Alanon, etc. She did start seeing a therapist a month ago who told her she needs to go..but still..nothing.
I am trying to do the right thing for my recovery. My therapist suggested I go bc I have codie sign. But then again I have not gone..fear maybe, but then again I walked into AA scared too so I know I can do it.
A healthy recovery of a couple involves both people. The whole family has been in turmoil b/c of my past and healing is needed on both parts... In my case, at this point I just need to keep working on me...
I am trying to do the right thing for my recovery. My therapist suggested I go bc I have codie sign. But then again I have not gone..fear maybe, but then again I walked into AA scared too so I know I can do it.
A healthy recovery of a couple involves both people. The whole family has been in turmoil b/c of my past and healing is needed on both parts... In my case, at this point I just need to keep working on me...
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Originally Posted by sandrawg
Interesting. I was curious about the reactions to using the word "alcoholic'-it seems to range from denial, to fear, to ok, lemme USE this label to bargain and manipulate to get what I want. That's what i experienced from my xabf too.
Utterly pointless to bring up the subject more than once, and you think I would have that idea ingrained in my own psyche, if only from my experience as an alcoholic in denial.
Not how codependency works though, two people in denial about the nature of alcoholism, when you look at it, basically the same thing. They called it co-addiction at one time, guess it was a bit of a mouthful and probably difficult for the 'victim' to accept, or even admit.
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I've done it... several different ways with several different loved ones. The reaction is pretty much always the same (in my experience). In my experience, with each person, the intial reaction was as if you'd caught them and they were ashamed and embarrassed and apologetic. That lasted a little while, then they started to get annoyed and resentful. Then, inevitably there'd come something like "you know, I've been thinking and despite what you say, I don't think I am an alcoholic... maybe I do drink too much, but I'm not an alcoholic."
I had fiance at one time in my life who actually cried when I told him flat out I thought he was an alcoholic. He said he knew he was and was scared and asked me to help him. Couple days later he was complaining that I was treating him like a diseased person and that maybe I was the one with the problem. Next thing I know he's throwing things at the wall, kicking the pets and locking me out of the house. I don't know much about what happened to him after that (I got the heck out of there), but... yeah, at least in my experience, whatever reaction you get at first might not be the reaction you end up with.
I had fiance at one time in my life who actually cried when I told him flat out I thought he was an alcoholic. He said he knew he was and was scared and asked me to help him. Couple days later he was complaining that I was treating him like a diseased person and that maybe I was the one with the problem. Next thing I know he's throwing things at the wall, kicking the pets and locking me out of the house. I don't know much about what happened to him after that (I got the heck out of there), but... yeah, at least in my experience, whatever reaction you get at first might not be the reaction you end up with.
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Not something I did... but I remember how my mom approached it with my dad. It was kinda funny actually (funny, looking back now), she said something like "I've come to the conclusion that you're either a [insert profanity] or an alcoholic... which would you rather me consider you?" .
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Yes, I think you have the right idea.
Just as, when you were locked into your disease, she could not make you go to AA, you also cannot make her go to al-anon.
Only thing you can do is work on your recovery, and make your own decision about whether to stay or go in the relationship.
I keep finding, this seems to be the underlying predominant theme of ALL of our posts on this thread. I wish it wasn't so painful and hard, on both sides, but it is.
Just as, when you were locked into your disease, she could not make you go to AA, you also cannot make her go to al-anon.
Only thing you can do is work on your recovery, and make your own decision about whether to stay or go in the relationship.
I keep finding, this seems to be the underlying predominant theme of ALL of our posts on this thread. I wish it wasn't so painful and hard, on both sides, but it is.
Originally Posted by Scott1970
Sandrawg, She has not gone to Al-Anon. She has said since October that she was going to go but to no avail...I can not make her. I have suggested, given her schedules, given #'s to spouses in Alanon, etc. She did start seeing a therapist a month ago who told her she needs to go..but still..nothing.
I am trying to do the right thing for my recovery. My therapist suggested I go bc I have codie sign. But then again I have not gone..fear maybe, but then again I walked into AA scared too so I know I can do it.
A healthy recovery of a couple involves both people. The whole family has been in turmoil b/c of my past and healing is needed on both parts... In my case, at this point I just need to keep working on me...
I am trying to do the right thing for my recovery. My therapist suggested I go bc I have codie sign. But then again I have not gone..fear maybe, but then again I walked into AA scared too so I know I can do it.
A healthy recovery of a couple involves both people. The whole family has been in turmoil b/c of my past and healing is needed on both parts... In my case, at this point I just need to keep working on me...
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California
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Just coming out and saying it is the best and most frightening thing I have done.
I am just beginning to speak with my Dad & Sister about my Mom- she's super high functioning.
I am done "accepting" the alcoholism in my family as "ok". I so scared I'm going to lose my family, but in a way I've already "lost" them to this alcholic patterning. I have physically separated myself from them and over time (15 years!) confronted my own substance abuse and now live sober with my sober partner. I have walked the walk. I know that there is another way to be and for me sober = joyfull & fulfilled.
I talk to my family almost every week, but lately I can't live in the denial of the twisted communication that alcholism brings to the party. My mother is a high functioning alcholic. My sister married a high functioning alcholic - his drinking is actuallly alarming. My sis has had panic attacks in the past. My dad battles depression and had physical ailments now that serve as distractions from the underlying causes. Now there is a new generation about to be subjected to this insideous disease. Now that I'm aware, it's like watching a car crash in slow motion.
I am starting to have honest talks with the enablers - my dad & my sis - just to let them know that I see the truth and that I here to be of support.
Soon - the talk with my mom... I'm still trying to work up the courage and serenity to have that one. I fear rage & being cut off and cut out, told "it's none of your business & who do you think you are? "
I know there's nothing I can do or fix, but I can speak my truth with LOVE and COMPASSION. It helps to remember that the alcoholics are sick - they're not bad people, they are at the effect of an illness.
I love my family so much. I am willing to be the stand for health and wellness. I have to have faith that they will understand that.
Any thoughts -advice - hopes - prayers?
Much gratitude to all the people who post here : )
I am just beginning to speak with my Dad & Sister about my Mom- she's super high functioning.
I am done "accepting" the alcoholism in my family as "ok". I so scared I'm going to lose my family, but in a way I've already "lost" them to this alcholic patterning. I have physically separated myself from them and over time (15 years!) confronted my own substance abuse and now live sober with my sober partner. I have walked the walk. I know that there is another way to be and for me sober = joyfull & fulfilled.
I talk to my family almost every week, but lately I can't live in the denial of the twisted communication that alcholism brings to the party. My mother is a high functioning alcholic. My sister married a high functioning alcholic - his drinking is actuallly alarming. My sis has had panic attacks in the past. My dad battles depression and had physical ailments now that serve as distractions from the underlying causes. Now there is a new generation about to be subjected to this insideous disease. Now that I'm aware, it's like watching a car crash in slow motion.
I am starting to have honest talks with the enablers - my dad & my sis - just to let them know that I see the truth and that I here to be of support.
Soon - the talk with my mom... I'm still trying to work up the courage and serenity to have that one. I fear rage & being cut off and cut out, told "it's none of your business & who do you think you are? "
I know there's nothing I can do or fix, but I can speak my truth with LOVE and COMPASSION. It helps to remember that the alcoholics are sick - they're not bad people, they are at the effect of an illness.
I love my family so much. I am willing to be the stand for health and wellness. I have to have faith that they will understand that.
Any thoughts -advice - hopes - prayers?
Much gratitude to all the people who post here : )
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 29
The guy I was seeing KNOWS he is an alcoholic. He also has mental problems on top of it. He went to see a doctor,and he told him he should do the 12 steps,and work on the issues himself or with meetings.
He seems to want to bring up -MY- "downfalls" as of lately,but when I approach him about his alcoholism..He begs me not to make him talk of it.
He seems to want to bring up -MY- "downfalls" as of lately,but when I approach him about his alcoholism..He begs me not to make him talk of it.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I That is VERY true CP! I wish I had more helpful insight for you,but I will send lots of positive energy/prayers to you and to your family.
I know there's nothing I can do or fix, but I can speak my truth with LOVE and COMPASSION. It helps to remember that the alcoholics are sick - they're not bad people, they are at the effect of an illness.
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