did any of you ever just, come right out and say it?
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did any of you ever just, come right out and say it?
I'm wondering about the different approaches we all have taken to discuss our family/friend/signficant others' alcoholism.
How many of you came right out and said "I think you are an alcoholic"?
Or did you just approach your A by framing it in terms of how their drinking affected you, or caused problems in your relationship?
What was the A's reaction?
My xabf would recoil in horror if I ever outright used the "A" word. It certainly wasn't an effective tactic. But neither was trying to explain how I felt when his drunken behavior hurt me. Actually, nothing really seemed to have any effect, and finally I had to walk away.
How many of you came right out and said "I think you are an alcoholic"?
Or did you just approach your A by framing it in terms of how their drinking affected you, or caused problems in your relationship?
What was the A's reaction?
My xabf would recoil in horror if I ever outright used the "A" word. It certainly wasn't an effective tactic. But neither was trying to explain how I felt when his drunken behavior hurt me. Actually, nothing really seemed to have any effect, and finally I had to walk away.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Hi,
Glad to see you here again. Sorry that you find yourself here again.
I guess you are being rhetorical and not planning to talk with the ex, right?
From my expereience, I tried it all. I was direct, indirect, talked to his friends, called his rehab, confronted him about being an A, drove him to meetings, ignored it, bought him books and sent him email links to AA sites, coddled, cussed, encouraged, distanced. None of it worked the way I wanted it to. He still drank and still does without me in the picture.
I made him sign a non-drinking pledge. Thought this meant something. Didn't to him.
We have been apart for over 1 1/2 years now. He is married to OW. They have an active drinking and party life. He also lost his house and most of the money he inherited this past spring. He is in bad financial shape and I have heard rumors that OW is trolling for men unknownst to him.
There is NOTHING you can say to him that will MAKE him see the light. He has to find it himself.
Hugs
Glad to see you here again. Sorry that you find yourself here again.
I guess you are being rhetorical and not planning to talk with the ex, right?
From my expereience, I tried it all. I was direct, indirect, talked to his friends, called his rehab, confronted him about being an A, drove him to meetings, ignored it, bought him books and sent him email links to AA sites, coddled, cussed, encouraged, distanced. None of it worked the way I wanted it to. He still drank and still does without me in the picture.
I made him sign a non-drinking pledge. Thought this meant something. Didn't to him.
We have been apart for over 1 1/2 years now. He is married to OW. They have an active drinking and party life. He also lost his house and most of the money he inherited this past spring. He is in bad financial shape and I have heard rumors that OW is trolling for men unknownst to him.
There is NOTHING you can say to him that will MAKE him see the light. He has to find it himself.
Hugs
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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First conversation was very mild. Said I was concerned and unhappy and wanted him to cut down. Xah was all kindness and agreement - but nothing changed at all.
Year later, second conversation. I did not say alcoholism but said that the drinking was out of control and that I would not stay and raise kids with him drinking that much. It wasn't healthy for any of us. He accepted that, agreed with all of it, and promised he'd make changes. I did suggest that he drank so much he might need help to quit and he adamantly denied that. Nothing changed. As a matter of fact, things got worse.
Twice in that year I had asked him to go to marriage counseling and he refused. More sex and lov'n from me was all that was really needed in his opinion :sigh:
6 months later a third conversation. I said he was an alcoholic and I was filing for divorce. He flipped out (not angry just distraught about everything falling apart) and signed himself into detox and treatment. Things had been going down hill in the 'functional alcholic' department and he was having health and anxiety issues. I do not think the word alcoholism shocked or bothered him at this point. From there he really ramped up the emotional manipulation and bullying. It was ugly. He came home from treatment and started drinking within days. He begged for marriage counseling at that time but I refused to do that if he was not in active recovery. My blinders had came off. I was also here - thank heavens. He then spent some time hiding behind the label alcoholic and how could I desert someone with a disease quack quack quack. He recently said he was really doing well and was watching the alcohol - of course he was offering me a beer at the time. I think he has put the label 'alcoholic' back in the box for the time being.
Year later, second conversation. I did not say alcoholism but said that the drinking was out of control and that I would not stay and raise kids with him drinking that much. It wasn't healthy for any of us. He accepted that, agreed with all of it, and promised he'd make changes. I did suggest that he drank so much he might need help to quit and he adamantly denied that. Nothing changed. As a matter of fact, things got worse.
Twice in that year I had asked him to go to marriage counseling and he refused. More sex and lov'n from me was all that was really needed in his opinion :sigh:
6 months later a third conversation. I said he was an alcoholic and I was filing for divorce. He flipped out (not angry just distraught about everything falling apart) and signed himself into detox and treatment. Things had been going down hill in the 'functional alcholic' department and he was having health and anxiety issues. I do not think the word alcoholism shocked or bothered him at this point. From there he really ramped up the emotional manipulation and bullying. It was ugly. He came home from treatment and started drinking within days. He begged for marriage counseling at that time but I refused to do that if he was not in active recovery. My blinders had came off. I was also here - thank heavens. He then spent some time hiding behind the label alcoholic and how could I desert someone with a disease quack quack quack. He recently said he was really doing well and was watching the alcohol - of course he was offering me a beer at the time. I think he has put the label 'alcoholic' back in the box for the time being.
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Oh, no worries; I know nothing I say is gonna make a bit of difference.
I'm just wondering how often and in what ways, we've all tried to sway the alcoholic, and how the A reacted. I thought some might find it helpful.
I'm just wondering how often and in what ways, we've all tried to sway the alcoholic, and how the A reacted. I thought some might find it helpful.
Originally Posted by MissFixit 
Hi,
Glad to see you here again. Sorry that you find yourself here again.
I guess you are being rhetorical and not planning to talk with the ex, right?
From my expereience, I tried it all. I was direct, indirect, talked to his friends, called his rehab, confronted him about being an A, drove him to meetings, ignored it, bought him books and sent him email links to AA sites, coddled, cussed, encouraged, distanced. None of it worked the way I wanted it to. He still drank and still does without me in the picture.
I made him sign a non-drinking pledge. Thought this meant something. Didn't to him.
We have been apart for over 1 1/2 years now. He is married to OW. They have an active drinking and party life. He also lost his house and most of the money he inherited this past spring. He is in bad financial shape and I have heard rumors that OW is trolling for men unknownst to him.
There is NOTHING you can say to him that will MAKE him see the light. He has to find it himself.
Hugs
Glad to see you here again. Sorry that you find yourself here again.
I guess you are being rhetorical and not planning to talk with the ex, right?
From my expereience, I tried it all. I was direct, indirect, talked to his friends, called his rehab, confronted him about being an A, drove him to meetings, ignored it, bought him books and sent him email links to AA sites, coddled, cussed, encouraged, distanced. None of it worked the way I wanted it to. He still drank and still does without me in the picture.
I made him sign a non-drinking pledge. Thought this meant something. Didn't to him.
We have been apart for over 1 1/2 years now. He is married to OW. They have an active drinking and party life. He also lost his house and most of the money he inherited this past spring. He is in bad financial shape and I have heard rumors that OW is trolling for men unknownst to him.
There is NOTHING you can say to him that will MAKE him see the light. He has to find it himself.
Hugs
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Interesting. I was curious about the reactions to using the word "alcoholic'-it seems to range from denial, to fear, to ok, lemme USE this label to bargain and manipulate to get what I want. That's what i experienced from my xabf too.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 28
Mine would, and will still admit that he is an alcoholic....He would say it mostly to get sympathy...Manipulation to keep me around...whenever he thought I was going to kick him out...Throw me the crumb of hope...AGAIN.....
I, too, tried every possible thing I could think of...and drove myself half crazy in the process...
I, too, tried every possible thing I could think of...and drove myself half crazy in the process...
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Mine joked one time "you know your an alcoholic when the clerk at the liquor store says see you in three days".
I never had the "your an Alcoholic" talk because he freely would admit it. But I had many "what Alcohol is doing to our lives" talks. It didnt matter to him at all. He would make himself a drink as I was saying it to him.
I never had the "your an Alcoholic" talk because he freely would admit it. But I had many "what Alcohol is doing to our lives" talks. It didnt matter to him at all. He would make himself a drink as I was saying it to him.
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Location: rural west
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At first I just mentioned the hidden bottles. He made excuses.
When I had "the talk" I said he was overdrinking, drinking to medicate depression and hiding and lying and none of that worked for me.
He said, "Fine, I'll cut down."
I said, "No, that's not it."
He said, "Fine, I'll quit."
I said, "That's not it, either."
He then said he was quitting anyway, then drank anyway, then said it was stupid to quit for me, and still drinks.
He argues that he offered to solve the problem (quitting) and that just isn't good enough for me and that nothing ever will be.
He says I don't love him and am looking for a way out.
He did acknowledge he was drinking because he was having "a hard time".
I told him that was a message to me that he needed help.
He said he could do it on his own.
I said, "I would believe you, but from all the literature I've read, EVERY alcoholic thinks the same thing."
He didn't flinch at the term.
He was just mad that I'd believe the literature over him.
So...there you go.
I concur with the others.
Nothing we say makes a difference...and really, maybe that's appropriate. It's their life, right?
peace
When I had "the talk" I said he was overdrinking, drinking to medicate depression and hiding and lying and none of that worked for me.
He said, "Fine, I'll cut down."
I said, "No, that's not it."
He said, "Fine, I'll quit."
I said, "That's not it, either."
He then said he was quitting anyway, then drank anyway, then said it was stupid to quit for me, and still drinks.
He argues that he offered to solve the problem (quitting) and that just isn't good enough for me and that nothing ever will be.
He says I don't love him and am looking for a way out.
He did acknowledge he was drinking because he was having "a hard time".
I told him that was a message to me that he needed help.
He said he could do it on his own.
I said, "I would believe you, but from all the literature I've read, EVERY alcoholic thinks the same thing."
He didn't flinch at the term.
He was just mad that I'd believe the literature over him.
So...there you go.
I concur with the others.
Nothing we say makes a difference...and really, maybe that's appropriate. It's their life, right?
peace
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: California
Posts: 182
I think I was pretty direct -can't honestly recall the first time it was discussed. Always been sort of an open topic for us. ABF fully admits all the time he is an alcoholic. He dad died from the disease as my stepdad did. We talk about it pretty often especially as he is progressing quicker these days. ABF just can't decide if he wants to die like that - ridiculous but heck I guess he is honest. For us the alcoholism is not the problem topic - what will change is the sticky part. I can only change me - his path to the grave is his choice. Gosh that sounded harsh - been a long day. 
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It's their life and if they wanna kill themselves, ok, but I really wish they'd just go isolate somewhere in the Himalayas in that case and stay away from dating, marrying, etc., so no one else would get affected by their disease!!
Originally Posted by FindingPeace1
At first I just mentioned the hidden bottles. He made excuses.
When I had "the talk" I said he was overdrinking, drinking to medicate depression and hiding and lying and none of that worked for me.
He said, "Fine, I'll cut down."
I said, "No, that's not it."
He said, "Fine, I'll quit."
I said, "That's not it, either."
He then said he was quitting anyway, then drank anyway, then said it was stupid to quit for me, and still drinks.
He argues that he offered to solve the problem (quitting) and that just isn't good enough for me and that nothing ever will be.
He says I don't love him and am looking for a way out.
He did acknowledge he was drinking because he was having "a hard time".
I told him that was a message to me that he needed help.
He said he could do it on his own.
I said, "I would believe you, but from all the literature I've read, EVERY alcoholic thinks the same thing."
He didn't flinch at the term.
He was just mad that I'd believe the literature over him.
So...there you go.
I concur with the others.
Nothing we say makes a difference...and really, maybe that's appropriate. It's their life, right?
peace
When I had "the talk" I said he was overdrinking, drinking to medicate depression and hiding and lying and none of that worked for me.
He said, "Fine, I'll cut down."
I said, "No, that's not it."
He said, "Fine, I'll quit."
I said, "That's not it, either."
He then said he was quitting anyway, then drank anyway, then said it was stupid to quit for me, and still drinks.
He argues that he offered to solve the problem (quitting) and that just isn't good enough for me and that nothing ever will be.
He says I don't love him and am looking for a way out.
He did acknowledge he was drinking because he was having "a hard time".
I told him that was a message to me that he needed help.
He said he could do it on his own.
I said, "I would believe you, but from all the literature I've read, EVERY alcoholic thinks the same thing."
He didn't flinch at the term.
He was just mad that I'd believe the literature over him.
So...there you go.
I concur with the others.
Nothing we say makes a difference...and really, maybe that's appropriate. It's their life, right?
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8
I think most, like me, ***** footed around the fact that their other half was alcoholic. All those talks about the hurt, distress and effects fell on deaf ears. For me personally I could only say "I think you have a drinking problem". It was only when I myself could see him for exactly what he is could I actually say to him "You ARE an alcoholic". That has still fallen on deaf ears! To him it is a lack of self discipline!
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I was always honest with my RAH, and I always said as much as I understood at the time. But I remeber when I realized for the first time my H is an A, it took me awhile to say it. I guess I wasn't too convinced myself, and I was afraid if I say it I'll make matters even worse between us. I think initially I was confusing too many of alcohol related problems for relationship problems. But once I became aware what is really going on, I had no problem saying it. Do I need to say it didn't change anything?
It took only to nearly die of liver cirrhosis for him to realize it.
So IMO there is no much point in saying to someone you're an A or anything else really, I know if I could resist temptations of talking some sense into him, I'd spare myself quite a bit of agony. Now when I think about it all those conversations felt like I was talking to myself, he'd only say few simple sentences to get me off his back, which by default left me feeling even more angry and resentful.
It usally went like this: Me: "You're an A, yada, yada, yada...."
Him: "I don't know what are you talking about"
or "What's wrong with you?"
or "I don't feel like talking now."
Fun, isn't it?
But we live and we learn.
It took only to nearly die of liver cirrhosis for him to realize it.
So IMO there is no much point in saying to someone you're an A or anything else really, I know if I could resist temptations of talking some sense into him, I'd spare myself quite a bit of agony. Now when I think about it all those conversations felt like I was talking to myself, he'd only say few simple sentences to get me off his back, which by default left me feeling even more angry and resentful.
It usally went like this: Me: "You're an A, yada, yada, yada...."
Him: "I don't know what are you talking about"
or "What's wrong with you?"
or "I don't feel like talking now."
Fun, isn't it?
But we live and we learn.
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 105
Thanks all on your above posts..I remember if the subject even came up I would say I could turn it on and off like a light switch.. The only thing that got me to quit was when I hit my bottom-walked up to her and said I want to go to rehab. It was no fight, the subject had not came up in a while..I just said I am done with it.
Now the shoe is on the other foot, I sobered up and realized there was more to our marital problems than just MY drinking. That is a whole other thing I need to work on for myself. If I mention anything it causes a major fight so I just keep working on myself with the help of my HP...
Now the shoe is on the other foot, I sobered up and realized there was more to our marital problems than just MY drinking. That is a whole other thing I need to work on for myself. If I mention anything it causes a major fight so I just keep working on myself with the help of my HP...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
This thread is a good example of the fact that it really doesn't matter what we say, when we say it, how we say it, if we say it rarely, often, loudly, quietly, kindly, meanly.
Our words just don't matter one way or another when it comes down to it.
We talk until we are tired of talking, and then we walk. There are a rare few who have partners that find true recovery - and even then - it had nothing to do with anything we said or how and when we said it.
When I think to much about it is the only time I get mad at myself for spending so many years trying to manage a situation that wasn't mine to manage. The endless negative cycle of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I got sick of my own self. Ugh, even a drunk has to get fed up with that at some point.
Our words just don't matter one way or another when it comes down to it.
We talk until we are tired of talking, and then we walk. There are a rare few who have partners that find true recovery - and even then - it had nothing to do with anything we said or how and when we said it.
When I think to much about it is the only time I get mad at myself for spending so many years trying to manage a situation that wasn't mine to manage. The endless negative cycle of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I got sick of my own self. Ugh, even a drunk has to get fed up with that at some point.
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Scott, is she in recovery (al-anon, therapy etc.) as well?
That can be the hardest thing for those of us in rel'ships with alcoholics, is to recognize that we also need recovery. Many codependents are so used to playing victim, blaming the A for all their problems, or thinking "he's the one with the problem, not me"...etc
That can be the hardest thing for those of us in rel'ships with alcoholics, is to recognize that we also need recovery. Many codependents are so used to playing victim, blaming the A for all their problems, or thinking "he's the one with the problem, not me"...etc
Originally Posted by Scott1970
Thanks all on your above posts..I remember if the subject even came up I would say I could turn it on and off like a light switch.. The only thing that got me to quit was when I hit my bottom-walked up to her and said I want to go to rehab. It was no fight, the subject had not came up in a while..I just said I am done with it.
Now the shoe is on the other foot, I sobered up and realized there was more to our marital problems than just MY drinking. That is a whole other thing I need to work on for myself. If I mention anything it causes a major fight so I just keep working on myself with the help of my HP...
Now the shoe is on the other foot, I sobered up and realized there was more to our marital problems than just MY drinking. That is a whole other thing I need to work on for myself. If I mention anything it causes a major fight so I just keep working on myself with the help of my HP...
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