LucyA

The first post could have been about my brother fifteen years or so ago. He was just as described there.

Thumper

It is a little late to hope to outgrow something in your 30's. You are all grown up already, making grown up choices.

He is making his choices, as an educated intelligent adult. Let him and his choices speak for themselves.

KnowAFew

And how did it unfold for your brother??

KnowAFew

Very good point. That is why I fully recognize this as a red flag. Getting blackout drunk at this age (vs 22 or even 26) is abnormal. Esp. if done with any frequency.

Also, the other big thing to note, is that his friends still go out and drink. But its hard to separate the social drinker who will just stop drinking overnight (once he gets a new hobby), vs the budding alcoholic who is slowly progressing. At the bar, they all look the same. It will be much clearer in a short matter of time, once they all start to have kids, and the weak hands just drop out of the bar gathering entirely. (Better things to do, get up early, responsible parent, etc)

LucyA

This is going to sound pretty blunt, but theres no other way to say it really.
He's dead. He ended up drinking a liter of vodka a day and died from chirrosis and heart problems. It wasn't pretty or easy for anyone, especially his 11 year old (at the time) son. He was 38 years old.
Having said that, I know there's nothing I or anyone else but him could have done to change the outcome.

Freedom1990

What is visibly clear at this point is his drinking IS affecting the marriage, and his wife IS unhappy.

We can all dissect, analyze, rationalize, speculate, compare notes, stand on our heads so we see it from a different view, and in the end, his drinking IS affecting the marriage.

What can his wife do about that? She can do plenty.

She can start attending Alanon.

There is nothing in Alanon literature that states you have to have a bonifide, real been-in-jail, skidrow bum, drinks every night, wets his pants, vomits on the floor, has 10 DUI's, clinically diagnosed alcoholic in your life to attend.

Suggest a copy of the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie for her to read.

Let her know about SR and tell her she's welcome to post here.

Thumper

You are turning over every stone. Why not just take the facts at face value. His drinking is causing him some serious issues in his life and he is choosing not to change the drinking.

How will the label of alcoholic make that different? What if he isn't alcholic? What then? Those answers don't present any better a picture if you ask me.

You are on a board full of alcholics or people that love alcoholics. I think all of us here can share a story of similar phases. We can't say what is going on with him. No one can predict the future. Maybe don't work so hard at figuring him out and figure out what you can do to create personal boundaries etc. with regards to a person that engages in said behaviors and makes those kinds of choices.

Bolina

If we all told you that, yes, he's an alcoholic, what would you do?

LaTeeDa

Well, if that is the question that must be answered, then you will just have to wait and see what happens. Unless your crystal ball works more reliably than mine.

Honestly, I think this "is he or isn't he" dilemma is just a way to avoid the real truth, which is--his drinking is a problem.

L

Learn2Live

rotflmao

infiniti

I was an occasional, fun-time, "binge" drinker until early last year. I am not an alcoholic. I am not a problem drinker. I did abuse alcohol. I am 40 years old. I feel it was an immaturity thing. I got married very young (19) and was married for 10 years and we rarely drank. I missed out on those partying 20s that most people go through. I got remarried very soon after my first divorce, and my 2nd husband was more of a drinker and partier, so we went out alot, and this is where it started. Only on weekends, though. When we got divorced, it continued with me and my single friends.

I do not crave it, nor did I have major consequences due to alcohol - no dui's, no job loss, no custody loss.

I rarely keep alcohol in the house, and when I do, I rarely drink at home, or alone. When I would drink, it would be much as you describe your brother does - partying with friends. I did blackout a couple of times, and I threw up many times.

When I met my now ex-bf, who is a recovering addict, he was a total non-drinker. When he went through recovery, I stopped drinking and going out partying. I also lost a great deal of my friends due to standing by him in his recovery. Not many of my friends were very understanding of a recovering meth addict.

I don't miss drinking, partying or even those "friends" of mine. As I look back, it wasn't a healthy lifestyle, nor a mature one for me.

Your brother may progress; he may not. He may simply have some growing up to do. However, if his wife is unhappy and he is not concerned with that, then it is as the others have said ... his drinking and the resulting behavior is negatively affecting his life.

keepinon

You sound like a logical, rational, educated person who is trying to make sense of all of this. Problem is alcoholism is a baffling and cunning disease which doesn't really get explained. My daughter is an addict and I went thru all this..is she an addict or an abuser? In the end it will become glaringly obvious. Either way, all you can do is work on yourself. Knowing if your brother is an alcoholic or a self centered immature alcohol abuser isn't going to anything one way or the other. you may drive yourself crazy trying to diagnosis and cure his problems. Either way, alanon can help you set boundaries for yourself..requirement for membership is YOUR having a problem due to someone else's drinking and you definately qualify.

spilledmilk

I wouldn't say hes an alcoholic but it sounds like when he does drink the alcohol controls him. But because it's not all the time it just doesn't seem as bad. (i'm not trying to say it isn't bad) Which may be a good thing for now if you could tell him that the way he drinks shows signs that hes not the one in control of the drinking. I don't know what to say really because a lot of people do get drunk sometimes but still have healthy lives. It seems like a cause for concern if it becomes a habit. Maybe hes having problems elsewhere that cause him to act out when hes drunk. I still believe others should be allowed to get tipsy/drunk sometimes if they want to. It is normal for young people to have a couple drunken nights. I personally wouldn't want to step in unless I knew it was a problem. Thats just my honest opinion.

stella27

what makes you say this?

coffeedrinker

Hey there, Know,

This is hard stuff. As Smacked said, no cookie cutter.

But, I think it's crystal clear that this is alcoholic drinking, IMO.

My xah did the binge thing for several years, til he got a DUI, was mortified, and sought treatment. He did not even get loaded once per month. Now, years later, he is drinking regularly (I think).

I think the most help you can be, is to your SIL. She is troubled, as the spouses always are. She is probably consumed and needs to acquire some tools. As do you, I would also say.

Keep coming to this site. It has changed my life.

KnowAFew

I want to thank everyone for their input.

While I don't want to over-react, some red flags are there.

Key point #1: The disease is progressive. Many of your have cited examples where someone was like my brother, but then they progressed to much worse... Today, the issue is manageable. However, tomorrow is a different story. I do not want to over-react, so time will tell where this goes.

As far as ME, if he gets the "bug", there is nothing I can do but steer clear. I have seen this destroy lives, and suck down everyone in its path, like a god damn vortex tornado. I am not naive, nor do I have some hero complex, nor am I willing to squander $100s of dollars fixing a bottomless pit.

Right now, it's nor clear where my brother stands in the alcoholic spectrum. If anything, he's been drinking less often in the last few years. So, maybe he just outgrows it. Maybe he starts drinking alone. Time will tell.

Of course, the best thing would be for him to just stop entirely, and head off any progression. In a few weeks, when the dust has settled, I will present him with the facts I've learned: The red flags, the progressive nature, etc... He can then decide what he wants to do.

KnowAFew

That should have said 100s of thousands of dollars!

Daisy30

I don't think anyone asked....but maybe I missed it.

Does his wife think he is an alcoholic?


Keep posting here!! There is a lot of support and a wealth of knowledge on these boards!

KnowAFew

No, the wife doesn't think he's an "alcoholic".

I spoke with her yesterday, and related the main points made here. (It may be fine now, but it can get worse... Many do)

She doesn't want to over-react either. Doesn't feel Alanon is for her, right now.

She also can not picture him becoming a daily drunk, etc.

She also felt it was friend's peer pressure that contributes, which I dismissed as textbook denial. She conceded.

She feels frequency has decreased in the last few years, so she is hoping the trend goes in that direction. (immature vs. progressive disease) But, she's not naive, and is open to acknowledging the potential gravity of these red flags.

We both agreed that time will tell. It will also be very telling if he gets bombed after this embarrassing little mini-incident. I wonder how long it will take.

For now, there is little else to post, until something happens.
I think I will approach him at some point, to present the results of my "fact finding" mission from this forum. List the red flags, educate him on the nature of "progressive", and get him to think about the source of why he still gets blackout drunk at this age.

KnowAFew

Update, this person seems to have gotten things under control in these last 2 years.