Conversation with the EX
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Conversation with the EX
I feel like I'm the crazy one now. I'm making stuff up. He isn't that bad. I'm always looking for things wrong. Do you see manipulation in this conversation? I think I do... but, here I am feeling bad. Thinking to myself, he's not that bad. I know this is a lot.. but I'm slipping into old thought patters, and could use a little nudge.
Night before Last: I told him I couldn’t be with him anymore.
“Goodnight Jenny, thanks for being a sweetheart. You’re the one walking away. You don’t know crap about what I’m doing. You’re making it so much worse with your assumptions. I haven’t drank or smoked, or done anything wrong, but you keep doing whatever makes you feel better. Goodnight, I love you and I’m going to miss you.”
Yesterday:
“You can’t even work with me. You don’t listen to anything I have to say about the way you make me feel. In you’re mind, you’re the perfect boyfriend. I’m sorry I choose to walk away, but what I value in a partnership, I value someone who cares about what I feel, think and need. You devalue ME. You deny any faults of your own.”
“Well, I really don’t know what to say to you Jenny. You say I didn’t listen to you, but I did all the time, it’s all I did is have to deal with all your different feelings. I’ve asked you what you want. I will do it, and you don’t even know. You’re never happy, there’s always something wrong with you and you don’t back me up or stand by me. You bash me and label me as a drunk with drug problems, and that’s CRAZY. You’re making this crap up in your head. You blame everything on me for not liking yourself, and no matter what I tell you, you’re pretty, smart, funny, cute, and you still hate yourself. I can’t fix that. I do love you, and I don’t want this and I do want to marry you and have kids with you. If I’m not what you want, what do you want from me? I don’t know what to do; you’re driving me crazy with what you want you just keep hurting me.”
“Well, maybe you aren’t a drunk then. I blamed it on your reasons for being abusive. Maybe you’re just being abusive. It’s very damaging to my self-esteem. You tell me that I’m smart and pretty, then you turn around and call me a selfish brat, and that I’m not a strong enough woman for you. It’s always mixed emotions, so I begin to believe all the hurtful things you say. You can be so mean. I don’t blame you for my problems. If there is anything I can say, it’s that I lose tough with who I am when I’m with you. I do not like how I think and behave. I love you greatly, but I’ve got a ton of “soul searching” to do, and I lose sight of it when I’m so consumed by us. It’s drained my life.
“and just so we’re clear, and I know it doesn’t matter, but I never hid drinking from you. I’ve done everything you’ve asked me to do. I don’t need or crave a drink like that, you’re creating issues that never happened. I was doing everything you wanted. Your brain never stopped going with fear and crazy ideas that everything is so messed up. You’re going to wear yourself out, you couldn’t just be happy. You haven’t given me any credit for how hard I was trying for you. Your worries and fears are what caused us to fight. I begged you to stop; I constantly have to reassure you for nothing. It drives me nuts. I wasn’t doing anything behind your back. I rarely drank beer, had to run things past you first, I went to the gym, took you to the movies, rode bikes, went hiking and you still weren’t happy. Nothing is making you happy. I kept asking, what do I have to do. I put myself aside for you and blew everyone off, and it still wasn’t enough, you jump on my back and label me as this bad person and its BS. I loved you and was working my butt off to make you happy. You’re more abusive than you think. You are way harder on me than I am you, and now you’re walking away.
“”you and your worries are what caused us to fight” – “So, I’m to blame? This is why we can’t be together. Take a look at YOURSELF. It takes two. I know I can be abusive. I don’t deny it, and I seek help for myself. That’s where our difference lies. You manipulate me, and tell yourself how great you are.”
“That’s BS. I kissed you’re a$$ every single day. I can’t believe you. I don’t have another thing to say after you just said that. My case in point. You don’t give me any credit. It’s okay. You will see how much I did when I’m gone. Youre going to regret this, you’re stuck on some high horse and reality is going to smack you right in the face. I can’t believe you Jenny.”
“See, you get so mad when I voice my opinion or feeling. Because, you tend to disagree. We speak on YOUR terms. You’re only happy when I feel or think how you think I should.”
“Calls me ungrateful, etc. said I didn’t thank him, etc. “There is nothing I can do that will ever please you. You know you’re telling yourself lies.”
Last night: I met him to give him some belongings.. I begged for a hug. I COULDN’T WALK AWAY. It makes no sense to me. He IS like a drug. Here I am, the one to LEAVE him.. Yet, I’m the one, begging for a hug, to talk to me, etc. I just felt like.. I can’t EVER get thru to him. This is the conversation to follow.. as he left, and I’m in tears.
“I’m sorry; this is really hard on me. I won’t bother you, but seeing you is extremely painful. I cannot resist you once you’re in front of me, I’m sorry” All I ever wanted was for you to give up drinking and smoking. You said you wouldn’t do that when you had kids, but how will you ever get to that part, if you can’t even quit now. I’m sorry, that’s all I ever wanted. It was just too hard. I will leave you be now. Take care. I will miss you greatly.
“I know how you feel Jenny, You’re beautiful to me. I just want to take you? When I miss you like this. I just don’t know what to say to you anymore, you have created a wall against me and I can’t get thru it. You’re telling yourself all the scary things about me and I’m not the enemy. I’m not out to get you”.
“What do you care Jenny? You’re the one who left me. Today is the first day I smoked and I would have quit for us and our kids. I’ve done it and you don’t give me credit. You don’t believe me, so what does it matter anymore? I told you what you were what I had going for me, so I quit. I don’t have anything going for me now, I’m alone, so who fcking cares”?
“I was right there, I told you I hated alcohol and I didn’t want it to be a part of “us”. You have no activities outside of drinking. It’s who you are”.
“I’m not going to keep doing this Jenny. I wasn’t getting wasted. I didn’t do it once. Sunday you got trashed, I had 3 beers and maybe 4 jellos. I haven’t done what you’re saying. Its BS, get off my back. I was giving you everything I had and you are making stuff up. Leave me alone, you are blowing this up into something its not. And YOU LEFT ME, WHAT DO YOU WANT, LEAVE ME ALONE.
“You never gave me a chance. You were on my ass the whole time; you know I didn’t do anything. I was being so good to you. You’re never happy. You can’t even enjoy what you’re doing because you’re so F’ing worried the whole time about something else; all you do is mope and complain. You’re going to see it wasn’t me that was making you unhappy, you’re unhappy with or without me. All you’re doing is making yourself more miserable by pushing me away.”
“I don’t want this either Jenny. This is stupid and I love you. I want you, but I can’t make you want me”
“I told you I was depressed. The medicine was making me suicidal and crazy, and to just be patient with me. I stopped taking it, but rather than be there for me, you got so mad at me.. I needed you. I was in a low, dark place and you made me feel worse. I know I got drunk. I said I didn’t want “us” to revolve our life around drinking. I know I screwed up too, I realize that. I just wanted it me and you, without the alcohol. It’s been the one theme in our life together that has destroyed everything we ever tried. Maybe you weren’t getting drunk, but the drinking alone disgusts me. I hate alcohol and I don’t want it. I do want you. I always have. I want you, to be able to have me, and stop turning to alcohol. What has alcohol ever done positively for you in your life”?
“Jenny, you’re leaving me. I wasn’t drunk Jenny, I didn’t make you drink.”
“I know you weren’t drunk. I want to be with someone who DOESN’T DRINK. Like the song says, “there’s a devil in the bottle” it destroyed us. It brings nothing but pain, it caused fights, whether or not we were fighting over the consumption or not. I don’t get why’d you’d give it up for a family, but you can’t stop now. I’m not going to label you anymore, but the drinking IS WAS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a constant problem in our relationship.”
“I’m not turning to drinking, you’re being ********, stop.”
“Just stop because you’re going off on your rant. I will talk to you later.”
“I will stop-these are my feelings. I won’t burden you with my opinions and thoughts anymore. You will always hold your own perceptions. Exactly, my rant. Excuse me for having a voice, that like I said, you always dismiss. You don’t’ care what I have to say. Goodbye. I’m sorry for showing I care.”
The END:
I know I'm at fault for a lot here. I'm weak. I'm controlling, etc. I Know. He's just SO hard to resist. I wish I could just converse with him, like a normal person. He dismisses ALL my thoughts...
Night before Last: I told him I couldn’t be with him anymore.
“Goodnight Jenny, thanks for being a sweetheart. You’re the one walking away. You don’t know crap about what I’m doing. You’re making it so much worse with your assumptions. I haven’t drank or smoked, or done anything wrong, but you keep doing whatever makes you feel better. Goodnight, I love you and I’m going to miss you.”
Yesterday:
“You can’t even work with me. You don’t listen to anything I have to say about the way you make me feel. In you’re mind, you’re the perfect boyfriend. I’m sorry I choose to walk away, but what I value in a partnership, I value someone who cares about what I feel, think and need. You devalue ME. You deny any faults of your own.”
“Well, I really don’t know what to say to you Jenny. You say I didn’t listen to you, but I did all the time, it’s all I did is have to deal with all your different feelings. I’ve asked you what you want. I will do it, and you don’t even know. You’re never happy, there’s always something wrong with you and you don’t back me up or stand by me. You bash me and label me as a drunk with drug problems, and that’s CRAZY. You’re making this crap up in your head. You blame everything on me for not liking yourself, and no matter what I tell you, you’re pretty, smart, funny, cute, and you still hate yourself. I can’t fix that. I do love you, and I don’t want this and I do want to marry you and have kids with you. If I’m not what you want, what do you want from me? I don’t know what to do; you’re driving me crazy with what you want you just keep hurting me.”
“Well, maybe you aren’t a drunk then. I blamed it on your reasons for being abusive. Maybe you’re just being abusive. It’s very damaging to my self-esteem. You tell me that I’m smart and pretty, then you turn around and call me a selfish brat, and that I’m not a strong enough woman for you. It’s always mixed emotions, so I begin to believe all the hurtful things you say. You can be so mean. I don’t blame you for my problems. If there is anything I can say, it’s that I lose tough with who I am when I’m with you. I do not like how I think and behave. I love you greatly, but I’ve got a ton of “soul searching” to do, and I lose sight of it when I’m so consumed by us. It’s drained my life.
“and just so we’re clear, and I know it doesn’t matter, but I never hid drinking from you. I’ve done everything you’ve asked me to do. I don’t need or crave a drink like that, you’re creating issues that never happened. I was doing everything you wanted. Your brain never stopped going with fear and crazy ideas that everything is so messed up. You’re going to wear yourself out, you couldn’t just be happy. You haven’t given me any credit for how hard I was trying for you. Your worries and fears are what caused us to fight. I begged you to stop; I constantly have to reassure you for nothing. It drives me nuts. I wasn’t doing anything behind your back. I rarely drank beer, had to run things past you first, I went to the gym, took you to the movies, rode bikes, went hiking and you still weren’t happy. Nothing is making you happy. I kept asking, what do I have to do. I put myself aside for you and blew everyone off, and it still wasn’t enough, you jump on my back and label me as this bad person and its BS. I loved you and was working my butt off to make you happy. You’re more abusive than you think. You are way harder on me than I am you, and now you’re walking away.
“”you and your worries are what caused us to fight” – “So, I’m to blame? This is why we can’t be together. Take a look at YOURSELF. It takes two. I know I can be abusive. I don’t deny it, and I seek help for myself. That’s where our difference lies. You manipulate me, and tell yourself how great you are.”
“That’s BS. I kissed you’re a$$ every single day. I can’t believe you. I don’t have another thing to say after you just said that. My case in point. You don’t give me any credit. It’s okay. You will see how much I did when I’m gone. Youre going to regret this, you’re stuck on some high horse and reality is going to smack you right in the face. I can’t believe you Jenny.”
“See, you get so mad when I voice my opinion or feeling. Because, you tend to disagree. We speak on YOUR terms. You’re only happy when I feel or think how you think I should.”
“Calls me ungrateful, etc. said I didn’t thank him, etc. “There is nothing I can do that will ever please you. You know you’re telling yourself lies.”
Last night: I met him to give him some belongings.. I begged for a hug. I COULDN’T WALK AWAY. It makes no sense to me. He IS like a drug. Here I am, the one to LEAVE him.. Yet, I’m the one, begging for a hug, to talk to me, etc. I just felt like.. I can’t EVER get thru to him. This is the conversation to follow.. as he left, and I’m in tears.
“I’m sorry; this is really hard on me. I won’t bother you, but seeing you is extremely painful. I cannot resist you once you’re in front of me, I’m sorry” All I ever wanted was for you to give up drinking and smoking. You said you wouldn’t do that when you had kids, but how will you ever get to that part, if you can’t even quit now. I’m sorry, that’s all I ever wanted. It was just too hard. I will leave you be now. Take care. I will miss you greatly.
“I know how you feel Jenny, You’re beautiful to me. I just want to take you? When I miss you like this. I just don’t know what to say to you anymore, you have created a wall against me and I can’t get thru it. You’re telling yourself all the scary things about me and I’m not the enemy. I’m not out to get you”.
“What do you care Jenny? You’re the one who left me. Today is the first day I smoked and I would have quit for us and our kids. I’ve done it and you don’t give me credit. You don’t believe me, so what does it matter anymore? I told you what you were what I had going for me, so I quit. I don’t have anything going for me now, I’m alone, so who fcking cares”?
“I was right there, I told you I hated alcohol and I didn’t want it to be a part of “us”. You have no activities outside of drinking. It’s who you are”.
“I’m not going to keep doing this Jenny. I wasn’t getting wasted. I didn’t do it once. Sunday you got trashed, I had 3 beers and maybe 4 jellos. I haven’t done what you’re saying. Its BS, get off my back. I was giving you everything I had and you are making stuff up. Leave me alone, you are blowing this up into something its not. And YOU LEFT ME, WHAT DO YOU WANT, LEAVE ME ALONE.
“You never gave me a chance. You were on my ass the whole time; you know I didn’t do anything. I was being so good to you. You’re never happy. You can’t even enjoy what you’re doing because you’re so F’ing worried the whole time about something else; all you do is mope and complain. You’re going to see it wasn’t me that was making you unhappy, you’re unhappy with or without me. All you’re doing is making yourself more miserable by pushing me away.”
“I don’t want this either Jenny. This is stupid and I love you. I want you, but I can’t make you want me”
“I told you I was depressed. The medicine was making me suicidal and crazy, and to just be patient with me. I stopped taking it, but rather than be there for me, you got so mad at me.. I needed you. I was in a low, dark place and you made me feel worse. I know I got drunk. I said I didn’t want “us” to revolve our life around drinking. I know I screwed up too, I realize that. I just wanted it me and you, without the alcohol. It’s been the one theme in our life together that has destroyed everything we ever tried. Maybe you weren’t getting drunk, but the drinking alone disgusts me. I hate alcohol and I don’t want it. I do want you. I always have. I want you, to be able to have me, and stop turning to alcohol. What has alcohol ever done positively for you in your life”?
“Jenny, you’re leaving me. I wasn’t drunk Jenny, I didn’t make you drink.”
“I know you weren’t drunk. I want to be with someone who DOESN’T DRINK. Like the song says, “there’s a devil in the bottle” it destroyed us. It brings nothing but pain, it caused fights, whether or not we were fighting over the consumption or not. I don’t get why’d you’d give it up for a family, but you can’t stop now. I’m not going to label you anymore, but the drinking IS WAS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN a constant problem in our relationship.”
“I’m not turning to drinking, you’re being ********, stop.”
“Just stop because you’re going off on your rant. I will talk to you later.”
“I will stop-these are my feelings. I won’t burden you with my opinions and thoughts anymore. You will always hold your own perceptions. Exactly, my rant. Excuse me for having a voice, that like I said, you always dismiss. You don’t’ care what I have to say. Goodbye. I’m sorry for showing I care.”
The END:
I know I'm at fault for a lot here. I'm weak. I'm controlling, etc. I Know. He's just SO hard to resist. I wish I could just converse with him, like a normal person. He dismisses ALL my thoughts...
today4me
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 311
You can’t even work with me. You don’t listen to anything I have to say about the way you make me feel. In you’re mind, you’re the perfect boyfriend. I’m sorry I choose to walk away, but what I value in a partnership, I value someone who cares about what I feel, think and need. You devalue ME. You deny any faults of your own.
Same type of opening or initial statement of mine. You did well and are are telling your true feelings.
Well, I really don’t know what to say to you Jenny.
Classic response. My ex stated "I don't have a reply", then proceeded to type an entire paragraph.
Well, maybe you aren’t a drunk then.
Manipulation, manipulation he's making you think crazy.
and just so we’re clear, and I know it doesn’t matter, but I never hid drinking from you.
Why does he even state it? If he types it, it is obvious he wants you to think different.
You got pulled into their game and started off wonderfully. Accept what you did and start over. Meaning step away, think and either stay away, or approach with a final statement. You are talking about your feelings and that is the first step forward in taking care of yourself.
Thanks for posting.
Same type of opening or initial statement of mine. You did well and are are telling your true feelings.
Well, I really don’t know what to say to you Jenny.
Classic response. My ex stated "I don't have a reply", then proceeded to type an entire paragraph.
Well, maybe you aren’t a drunk then.
Manipulation, manipulation he's making you think crazy.
and just so we’re clear, and I know it doesn’t matter, but I never hid drinking from you.
Why does he even state it? If he types it, it is obvious he wants you to think different.
You got pulled into their game and started off wonderfully. Accept what you did and start over. Meaning step away, think and either stay away, or approach with a final statement. You are talking about your feelings and that is the first step forward in taking care of yourself.
Thanks for posting.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
Well Jenny you got me confused here. So is he an A or not?
And you are the only person who can know if what he's saying is true or not.
So, has he been there for you and tried to do what you want him to do or not?
But that might be a bit out of point here.
As from your post it is clear to me what he wants and thinks but I'm not clear on what you want exactly. It sounds you want him to be someone he's not. It seems is opinion is he's tried everything to make you happy but you're not.
So is he a nice BF or not?
Is he really abusive?
Is he alcoholic or not?
What is exactly that you want him to do?
I'm sorry if I'm wrong here, but it kind of sounds you want him to feel some void inside of you, to make things right for you, which are beyond his control.
His drinking, whether is an A or not is not your problem. You can take it leave it.
maybe it's time you take look at yourself, face your fears and shortcomings and start it from there.
I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just reading your post I'm confused on what the real situation is and what do you want.
And you are the only person who can know if what he's saying is true or not.
So, has he been there for you and tried to do what you want him to do or not?
But that might be a bit out of point here.
As from your post it is clear to me what he wants and thinks but I'm not clear on what you want exactly. It sounds you want him to be someone he's not. It seems is opinion is he's tried everything to make you happy but you're not.
So is he a nice BF or not?
Is he really abusive?
Is he alcoholic or not?
What is exactly that you want him to do?
I'm sorry if I'm wrong here, but it kind of sounds you want him to feel some void inside of you, to make things right for you, which are beyond his control.
His drinking, whether is an A or not is not your problem. You can take it leave it.
maybe it's time you take look at yourself, face your fears and shortcomings and start it from there.
I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just reading your post I'm confused on what the real situation is and what do you want.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Boy, those conversations are really familiar. What comes to mind is:
He is finding the "soft spot" in you between your compulsion for him and your own gut instinct that is telling you what is right for you. He's poking holes in that instinct, and it's easy for you to think he maybe makes sense and you're wrong... Go with your gut.
Do you notice that he is playing the wounded, misunderstood victim? I don't know, because I've never had a healthy relationship, but I would think that if there was a wide gulf between what you need and what he's providing he'd work with you and not try to convince you how "wrong" you are. It's all about him. Your feelings don't count with him--even though he says they do. As they say, Look at his actions, not his words. His words aren't worth the air they're floating on.
Sometimes when I'm thinking about the crazy conversations I have with my AH like this, it reminds me of the last scene in the Exorcist where the devil takes on the voice of the priest's mother, and plays on his guilt. I really think that's what happens with the alcoholic conversations... they just play around and play around with your head until they get to that Achilles heel in your head, and it is so darn hard to say, "that's not him--that's coming from some egotistical, self-absorbed, messed-up alcohol-soaked place inside that I have to run from."
Thanks for posting this. It really is a mirror of many conversations I have and it helps to see it replayed.
He is finding the "soft spot" in you between your compulsion for him and your own gut instinct that is telling you what is right for you. He's poking holes in that instinct, and it's easy for you to think he maybe makes sense and you're wrong... Go with your gut.
Do you notice that he is playing the wounded, misunderstood victim? I don't know, because I've never had a healthy relationship, but I would think that if there was a wide gulf between what you need and what he's providing he'd work with you and not try to convince you how "wrong" you are. It's all about him. Your feelings don't count with him--even though he says they do. As they say, Look at his actions, not his words. His words aren't worth the air they're floating on.
Sometimes when I'm thinking about the crazy conversations I have with my AH like this, it reminds me of the last scene in the Exorcist where the devil takes on the voice of the priest's mother, and plays on his guilt. I really think that's what happens with the alcoholic conversations... they just play around and play around with your head until they get to that Achilles heel in your head, and it is so darn hard to say, "that's not him--that's coming from some egotistical, self-absorbed, messed-up alcohol-soaked place inside that I have to run from."
Thanks for posting this. It really is a mirror of many conversations I have and it helps to see it replayed.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
"Well, that's the thing. I think I tend to make things a bigger deal than they really are.. so it's almost good that the whole story not be known.. then I can see how a normal person would react to the situation.. because I strive to be a normal person.
It's one stupid freaking beer. I shouldn't be this mad."
That's from your post from 5/13.
So I have to say I don't think there is a such a thing as a normal person, we are normal in our own way under what circomstances of our lives made us to be.
I've spent far too much time of my life trying to fit into normal.
You're the only one who can decide what is acceptable for you and what is not.
You sound confused. I know that feeling. So I'm saying again, maybe it's time your start your own recovery.
I don't really know your all story, I've read only these 2 threads, but this is the impression they gave me.
I wish you the best of luck
It's one stupid freaking beer. I shouldn't be this mad."
That's from your post from 5/13.
So I have to say I don't think there is a such a thing as a normal person, we are normal in our own way under what circomstances of our lives made us to be.
I've spent far too much time of my life trying to fit into normal.
You're the only one who can decide what is acceptable for you and what is not.
You sound confused. I know that feeling. So I'm saying again, maybe it's time your start your own recovery.
I don't really know your all story, I've read only these 2 threads, but this is the impression they gave me.
I wish you the best of luck
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Originally Posted by tpen 
and just so we’re clear, and I know it doesn’t matter, but I never hid drinking from you.
Why does he even state it? If he types it, it is obvious he wants you to think different.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Sesh,
Thank you for your opinion. I am in the process of working on my own recovery. Part of it, was needing to leave him. It's just... not easy. I've started to realize how controlling we both are.. and how he manipulates me into making myself think everything is my fault. I do get sucked back into it, which is why I posted this.. because...
I'm feeling like, he's not an alcoholic.
I'm feeling like, he's not abusive.
I'm feeling like, he truly loves and wants the best for me.
I'm feeling like, I shouldn't give up on him.
I'm feeling like, this IS all my fault. I'm never satisified.
I'm feeling like, I don't give him the credit he deserves.
Also,
I'm feeling like, I'm being very calm and clear in my response, and he shuts me out.
I'm feeling like, what I have to say, really doesn't register in his mind.
I'm feeling like, he truly does have a problem. He's a narcissist.
""You will see how much I did when I’m gone. Youre going to regret this, you’re stuck on some high horse and reality is going to smack you right in the face. I can’t believe you Jenny.”"
That's a freaky response. I wouldn't imagine saying something like that... He believes he is above all.
Thank you for your opinion. I am in the process of working on my own recovery. Part of it, was needing to leave him. It's just... not easy. I've started to realize how controlling we both are.. and how he manipulates me into making myself think everything is my fault. I do get sucked back into it, which is why I posted this.. because...
I'm feeling like, he's not an alcoholic.
I'm feeling like, he's not abusive.
I'm feeling like, he truly loves and wants the best for me.
I'm feeling like, I shouldn't give up on him.
I'm feeling like, this IS all my fault. I'm never satisified.
I'm feeling like, I don't give him the credit he deserves.
Also,
I'm feeling like, I'm being very calm and clear in my response, and he shuts me out.
I'm feeling like, what I have to say, really doesn't register in his mind.
I'm feeling like, he truly does have a problem. He's a narcissist.
""You will see how much I did when I’m gone. Youre going to regret this, you’re stuck on some high horse and reality is going to smack you right in the face. I can’t believe you Jenny.”"
That's a freaky response. I wouldn't imagine saying something like that... He believes he is above all.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 685
Originally Posted by SoloMio
He is finding the "soft spot" in you between your compulsion for him and your own gut instinct that is telling you what is right for you. He's poking holes in that instinct, and it's easy for you to think he maybe makes sense and you're wrong... Go with your gut.
Do you notice that he is playing the wounded, misunderstood victim? I don't know, because I've never had a healthy relationship, but I would think that if there was a wide gulf between what you need and what he's providing he'd work with you and not try to convince you how "wrong" you are. It's all about him. Your feelings don't count with him--even though he says they do. As they say, Look at his actions, not his words. His words aren't worth the air they're floating on.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Put the booze and dope aside, this is a conversation of two people trying to be heard.
Men hate to be pushed, women love to push and women are never happy.
Add the booze and dope back in, no one should be happy with addictions.
My honest input, and I am saying this because I am like you, you are trying to get him to react. You want him to say "Please don't leave, I will stop drinking"
men dismising women is not knew. That is one of my biggest complaints and has been with other men and my friends have the same issues.
You can go back and forth with him until you turn blue, but it won't change. What needs to change is your outlook.
Truthfully, I see you trying to manipulate and not him.
Men are way more simple that we think
Men hate to be pushed, women love to push and women are never happy.
Add the booze and dope back in, no one should be happy with addictions.
My honest input, and I am saying this because I am like you, you are trying to get him to react. You want him to say "Please don't leave, I will stop drinking"
men dismising women is not knew. That is one of my biggest complaints and has been with other men and my friends have the same issues.
You can go back and forth with him until you turn blue, but it won't change. What needs to change is your outlook.
Truthfully, I see you trying to manipulate and not him.
Men are way more simple that we think
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia
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Summerpeach,
I do agree. I do want him to beg. I do see me trying to manipulate too. Thank you for stating the obvious. I'm trying to change my outlook, which is why I'm looking for criticism on what I'm doing wrong.
We both want to be heard.
I'm quite embarrassed with myself. I just want him to understand MY feelings to. Our whole relationship is always twisted up, and thrown back on me.
I do agree. I do want him to beg. I do see me trying to manipulate too. Thank you for stating the obvious. I'm trying to change my outlook, which is why I'm looking for criticism on what I'm doing wrong.
We both want to be heard.
I'm quite embarrassed with myself. I just want him to understand MY feelings to. Our whole relationship is always twisted up, and thrown back on me.
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These are the things that make me think I will never be able to get it right. I re-read it.. and I don't really think I'm trying to maniuplate him. For once, I just want for him to really hear what I have to say, or to at least let me express my concern.
He doesn't have to agree. If he could just say.. I understand what you're saying, but nothing will change.
IT'D MAKE IT SO MUCH EASIER..
He doesn't have to agree. If he could just say.. I understand what you're saying, but nothing will change.
IT'D MAKE IT SO MUCH EASIER..
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I guess I'm just wondering if I'm being too hard on him. If I am making things up, and telling myself lies.
I don't really think I am... but, maybe? Everything he says, sends me into a spiral of self-doubting. *sighs*
What you say Anvilhead, makes a great point. I love your analogies!
I don't really think I am... but, maybe? Everything he says, sends me into a spiral of self-doubting. *sighs*
What you say Anvilhead, makes a great point. I love your analogies!
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by Duped
My head is spinning reading that first post. Circular conversations that go nowhere......
Step away and take a break and get out of the forest. Don't look back for awhile, and when you do because we all eventually do, you will see things as they truly are. It will be very clear!
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Originally Posted by Jenny1232
Summerpeach,
I do agree. I do want him to beg. I do see me trying to manipulate too. Thank you for stating the obvious. I'm trying to change my outlook, which is why I'm looking for criticism on what I'm doing wrong.
We both want to be heard.
I'm quite embarrassed with myself. I just want him to understand MY feelings to. Our whole relationship is always twisted up, and thrown back on me.
I do agree. I do want him to beg. I do see me trying to manipulate too. Thank you for stating the obvious. I'm trying to change my outlook, which is why I'm looking for criticism on what I'm doing wrong.
We both want to be heard.
I'm quite embarrassed with myself. I just want him to understand MY feelings to. Our whole relationship is always twisted up, and thrown back on me.
Don't be embarrassed at all. You're looking for answers and trying to discover who you are, that is admirable.
What you're doing wrong, well there is no right/wrong. You need to act in order to get results.
Deatching is a good start. Tough to do, but it helps.
Every time you say something, think, am I saying this to get him to react. If the answer is yes, then don't say it.
Don't scold, nag, check up on him etc
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
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Originally Posted by Summerpeach
we may be in a relationship with the same person ;-)
Don't be embarrassed at all. You're looking for answers and trying to discover who you are, that is admirable.
What you're doing wrong, well there is no right/wrong. You need to act in order to get results.
Deatching is a good start. Tough to do, but it helps.
Every time you say something, think, am I saying this to get him to react. If the answer is yes, then don't say it.
Don't scold, nag, check up on him etc
Don't be embarrassed at all. You're looking for answers and trying to discover who you are, that is admirable.
What you're doing wrong, well there is no right/wrong. You need to act in order to get results.
Deatching is a good start. Tough to do, but it helps.
Every time you say something, think, am I saying this to get him to react. If the answer is yes, then don't say it.
Don't scold, nag, check up on him etc
One time my MIL was noticing that her brother, who lived with her at the time, had relapsed from sobriety into drinking and drugging. Short time later she noticed some of her stuff was gone.
I advised her to go to AlAnon and gave her a meeting schedule and some literature.
She didn't go to AlAnon but what she did do was kick him out of the house, change the locks, and bought him a ticket to his daughter in Florida--all within a week, with few words spoken.
It was as simple as that. I was amazed and respected her so much for JUST DOING IT.
Re what anvilhead said about validation: reminds me of this quote: "Our 'self' is the sum of our conclusions, limitations, and beliefs. We go beyond self when we cease our constant validation of it."
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
Focus on the positive and be realistic (my suggestion). We all have the ability to become pretty much anything we want. Find a mentor; here, alanon, etc. who has been where your are and is now where you want to be. I've come to realize the the Codie thing is real, and the best way to break free is to sit down by yourself (or with mentor) and come up with some concrete boundaries. Things don't change instantly, do be patient, put in the effort and you will be in a much better place sooner than you think.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
"we get in touch with OUR OWN values, morals and ethics....we define what is acceptable to us, and what is not, and then WE act accordingly."
Anvil hit it on the head again for me... As active addicts we seem be so stuck in instant gratification mode that we loose touch with what we really believe and value. The above quote very accurately describes what I've gone through in the last year. Had I read it as a newbie here (first couple months dry), it would have come across as bs. I would have viewed it through the lens of an active addict who selectively sees things in his/her world only to rationalize continued use. The only thing I might add is that it does take time for most if not all.
Anvil hit it on the head again for me... As active addicts we seem be so stuck in instant gratification mode that we loose touch with what we really believe and value. The above quote very accurately describes what I've gone through in the last year. Had I read it as a newbie here (first couple months dry), it would have come across as bs. I would have viewed it through the lens of an active addict who selectively sees things in his/her world only to rationalize continued use. The only thing I might add is that it does take time for most if not all.
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Reading the original post left me a bit exhausted because I've had the exact conversation before with my XH. Geez, I could hear his tone of voice coming through!
I think what it comes down to is that those conversations went nowhere. I wanted a different person than the person who he was. I couldn't convince him to become someone else for me. He could be sorry, but it didn't change anything, and any begging, pleading, etc., that I got from him just prolonged the misery and kept me hooked.
I think what it comes down to is that those conversations went nowhere. I wanted a different person than the person who he was. I couldn't convince him to become someone else for me. He could be sorry, but it didn't change anything, and any begging, pleading, etc., that I got from him just prolonged the misery and kept me hooked.
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Jenny,
That post could have been written by any one of us. Addicts are just exhausting, and our behavior to attempt to control THEM is even more exhausting.
We love them, but never KNOW them completely. Their addictions prevents them from loving us in a healthy way. Their addiction prevents US from loving THEM in a healthy way. It's a vicious, endless cycle of dysfunction, anger, blaming, denying, begging...ugh. All of that and so much more.
I started reading what you wrote, and saw myself in your responses. You/I think we are speaking calmly, reasonably, with love, when we state our feelings, what we need, what we want. All the addict hears is, I'm not good enough. I don't do enough. You expect too much. Nothing I do is good enough for YOU. I give up so much FOR YOU and you are ungrateful.
In reality, the cycle never ends. We are too angry at all the times they hurt us, let us down, didn't do what they said to EVER see the positive steps forward they may be attempting. Whenever the addict makes one step forward, they think they've conquered the world. All we see as their partners is another opportunity for them to fall farther from the cliff, since they have always fallen before. Why should this time be any different?
Being in a relationship with an addict is not for the weak of heart. I resented his drinking, his bar hopping, his lies, his blameshifting and his unwillingness to give up the ONE THING that was tearing us apart. Why couldn't HE see that his drinking was what was the ultimate demise of our future? Because HE sees the demise of our relationship as a new beginning for a future without me, the one that kept him from his one true love: BEER.
As hard as that is to write, I realize that nothing would have ever changed if I stayed with him.
So now, I celebrate my life without a boozing, blameshifting bum who chose beer over me. Jenny, we deserve better.
Stay strong, and do your best to step OUT of the vicious circle you are in. Keep coming here, posting and getting encouragement. We are all on this journey together.
Blessings to you, beloved!
That post could have been written by any one of us. Addicts are just exhausting, and our behavior to attempt to control THEM is even more exhausting.
We love them, but never KNOW them completely. Their addictions prevents them from loving us in a healthy way. Their addiction prevents US from loving THEM in a healthy way. It's a vicious, endless cycle of dysfunction, anger, blaming, denying, begging...ugh. All of that and so much more.
I started reading what you wrote, and saw myself in your responses. You/I think we are speaking calmly, reasonably, with love, when we state our feelings, what we need, what we want. All the addict hears is, I'm not good enough. I don't do enough. You expect too much. Nothing I do is good enough for YOU. I give up so much FOR YOU and you are ungrateful.
In reality, the cycle never ends. We are too angry at all the times they hurt us, let us down, didn't do what they said to EVER see the positive steps forward they may be attempting. Whenever the addict makes one step forward, they think they've conquered the world. All we see as their partners is another opportunity for them to fall farther from the cliff, since they have always fallen before. Why should this time be any different?
Being in a relationship with an addict is not for the weak of heart. I resented his drinking, his bar hopping, his lies, his blameshifting and his unwillingness to give up the ONE THING that was tearing us apart. Why couldn't HE see that his drinking was what was the ultimate demise of our future? Because HE sees the demise of our relationship as a new beginning for a future without me, the one that kept him from his one true love: BEER.
As hard as that is to write, I realize that nothing would have ever changed if I stayed with him.
So now, I celebrate my life without a boozing, blameshifting bum who chose beer over me. Jenny, we deserve better.
Stay strong, and do your best to step OUT of the vicious circle you are in. Keep coming here, posting and getting encouragement. We are all on this journey together.
Blessings to you, beloved!
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