Buffalo66

MIne does not have to be in a full out black out to forget what was said/ what he did. Many times he seems to have been absent for much of the interactions.

I think his brain is becoming swiss cheese. It happens with the alcoholics.

Jadmack25

Having someone who "opens up" when drinking, and when sober is harder to get thru to than a concrete wall, I have been left to guess my way thru the relationship.
I have been accused of "not caring", of not asking how he is going when sober, but if I did enquire I got a frown and a terse "ok", and actually felt I should trespass no further.

This past few months of his recovery time, it has been easier and he seems less on edge or defensive, but I still don't push too hard.

We have been thru the manipulation, lies, blame, abuse, denial etc of the game of Alcoholic Twister, and I have made it loud and clear that "I AM OVER PLAYING YOUR GAME".

I hope you soon get out of this madness and bewilderment and into peace.

God bless

suki44883

The thing is, you can't tell when someone is in black out and neither can they. There's not a sign that flashes. They find out later when someone tells them something they did or said and they don't have any memory of it.

LaTeeDa

Exactly. Mine couldn't remember countless things. Interestingly, when we got into counseling to attempt reconciliation, he remembered everything. I was shocked.

L

barb dwyer

Speaking of beating a dead horse... LOL
(because so many others have pounced on this already)

Just one more addition to this statement -
we DON"T remember every single manipulation
bnecause it's not conscious like you said -
it's become autonomic.
Like blinking.
or breathing.

It reads more to me that he's played all his 'buttons' and this time -
nothing got a response form you.
So like Pavlov's dog
he's refusing to engage at all.
Or a sulky child, I suppose would be the better analogy.

I am very happy to read that you're making your plan as well.
I don't see a relationship that one partner
refuses to work on themselves
or even get an outside opinion
ever works out.

I do NOT hate men.
I LIKE men.
What I can't abide
is little boys.

But I've spent almost ALL my adult life
dragging some alcoholic man along
like my own flightless albatross
desperately trying to make him into
someone I've imagined in my head.
And I hated every one of them
for not being that guy.

I'm always going to encourage codependent women
to get out on their own
if it's at all possible.
Because as a codependent -
THAT ... is when we do our learning.
THAT... is when we finally face ourselves.
AND THAT ... is what it's all about isn't it?

FindingPeace1

Thanks for all that feedback.
I still feel guilty for changing the rules on him by going into the relationship suppressing and now wanting to confront my demons. It sure has pulled the rug out from him and he is SUFFERING. He was really taken by surprise. I can't blame him. I wish I hadn't of done this after we got married, but before.

It still hurts to think this is exactly the dynamic that ended my parents' marriage (wife realizes she is living in a smaller box than she wants and grows - husband doesn't want to change) and I feel like such a pawn of life to replay all the baggage I must have picked up in childhood...I wonder if this is the same dynamic that ended HIS parents' marriage.

Somehow, I feel less "suffer-y" myself.
I swear, I think allowing myself to get ANGRY and SCREAM the other day really cleared some stuffed feelings. They are flowing more and I am more centered. Although, that may change at any moment! LOL!

Last night he says,"I'm not sure I can keep doing this."
I said, "I hear you, but I'm not sure if you are saying it's how you FEEL or you want to DO something. I'll take it it's how you feel right now and I agree it's hard! I figure we can let it go, which we haven't been able to, or we can talk about our feelings and process through them."
He says, "What is there to talk about?"
I don't know how to reply.
"What do you want to do? Rehash it again? You're so angry and think the worst of me. THAT'S our problem."
I said, "I think we have a number of problems."
"It's too bad you have a number of problems with me."
I said, "I don't want to rehash, but we have upset feelings RIGHT NOW that are affecting our relationship. I let sleeping dogs lie all last week and that didn't magically fix us. I think we need to get at our feelings. If I would guess, I would say you want to feel safe and trust that I love you to move forward.
"I DID," he says. (This has come up a lot. Him saying he WAS happy. He DID feel safe (ostensibly before I RUINED everything). I have made the argument that if he was hiding alcohol and not wanting to talk about uncomfortable things he didn't feel THAT safe! That has gotten me nowhere, needless to say. I think he felt the safest with a partner that he had ever felt. Maybe that's it.)
"I can't change the past," I say, "What happened happened. We're here now."
Silence.
He says, "What do you WANT??"
I said, "Love, honesty, openness, willingness to change"
He said, "I don't even know what that means."
This is his response to information that makes him uncomfortable. If I DON'T reply, then I shut down the conversation, but really, this is a shut down from him. He's not saying, "Can you explain what you mean..." but "I don't understand". Okay.

So, I say nothing. But in my head I think, "I know you don't. And that is so sad."

You all are right.
I don't think this is alcohol talking.
I think it's fear and inability to open.
I did set myself up in a no win...because sharing my feelings shut him down way more than he has ever been...but I did it to grow.
<sigh>

NYC_Chick

Be careful not to blame yourself for HIS choice to shut down. I heard that excuse more than I can count. He shuts down to manipulate, not out of fear of opening up. He shuts down in the hope you will pick up the broom and sweep it all under the rug again. If you did that, you can get back to being happy, meaning he can drink and you will keep your mouth shut. Play the tape all the way through. He is suffering because he wants to drink and you are ruining that.

Gold

But you're not because you are recognising and acknowledgine (HUGE) and making moves to change the pattern .

I applaude you.

FindingPeace1

Gold-
:bounce
LOL!
P.S. I luv midwifery! Yah for the GIFT you are to the world!

Duped

I don't know what's more annoying, their 'forgetfulness' or the completely new set of memories they seem to pull out of their behinds whenever the need arises.

FindingPeace1

I'm interested in the new counselor because he has an addiction focus.
The last one didn't.

The last one...I never told y'all this...
The last one (my first ever therapist) at our first session, admitted he was armchair quarterbacking-therapy by id'ing my AH as an alcoholic who couldn't be vulnerable. Now, he was right, but should you be doing that the first session?

He also interrupted me at our last session (only our third session, btw) and said, "How's his penis?"
I said, "I'm sorry?"
Then he said, "Aww! I was just having a moment of sadism. You know, alcoholism can cause erectile dysfunction." Ha ha ha.

I was completely floored.
A moment of sadism?
Now, don't get me wrong. I have PLENTY of those.
But coming from my therapist?
No, thanks. LOL!

So, the new one is tomorrow! Wish me luck!