Lotus2009

Hi all,

I'm really questioning whether I'm in the wrong and I'd like your input on something.

So, my husband had to work late last night... he never has an exact time as to when he'd be done, but he should have been home at around 12-12:30 at the latest. I ended up calling him when he didn't come home at around that time and he said he was at the bar with some friends. This is not the first time this has happened... he has gone out after work, staying out until 3 am without texting or calling to let me know that he wasn't coming home after work. I have told him several times that it bothers me... I'm not saying he needs to call and ask my permission, I'm simply saying that I would expect a partner to let the other one know what their plans are. I feel it is disrespectful not to do so - if you are single and there's noone waiting for you, then fine... but isn't it just common courtesy in a partnership to let your partner know what you're doing? I tell him what my plans are for the night when I go out, or if he is at work I at least text him to let him know before I leave that I will go out and what my plans are. Is this me being controlling or is this him not letting me into his life and being disrespectful? What is this supposed to be like in a healthy relationship?

I would really appreciate your input!!!

P.S. I know I am angry, because I'm expecting things from him that he isn't willing/ able to give and that I shouldn't expect from him based on his past behavior... BUT I'm trying to figure out if this is a normal expectation to have when in a "healthy" relationship?

GiveLove

In our relationship, we worry about each other and want to know when to "call in the mounties" so to speak. We know that, and so we have an agreement that if someone is going to be more than an hour later than usual, we call or text. Not to ask permission, just to say, I'm going to be late, don't wait up.

I personally think it's normal, but other men would bristle at this, thinking it's controlling.

I'm not interested in being with guys like that, personally. It smacks of a teenaged boy whining "you're just trying to push me around!" I like grownups. Sounds like you do too.

The more important issue to me seems to be that you have stated this as something that's important to you, and your feelings aren't honored. That would not be okay with me. Here, that would mean sitting down and talking through how we can make the situation work for both of us somehow. Sending a text takes seconds and isn't asking permission...one would think that wouldn't be too much to ask. Is he grownup enough to find a compromise that works for you both?

suki44883

That is one of my pet peeves. This man is your husband, so you are already in his life. It is common courtesy to let your partner know if you will be late getting home. No huge explanation needed, just a heads up not to expect them home at the normal time. Not to man bash, but I have had that same problem with several men in my life and I'm wondering why it's so hard to get through to them that it's just common courtesy. Geez.

Live

I think that healthy relationships are based on individuals not one set of rules.

I have been in relationships where no call is just fine...on both sides.
I have been in relationshipis where we kept each other closely informed.
Both set of understandings worked at the time and in that particular dynamics.

Only you can figure out what is healthy for you in this set of circumstances, with this person and according to the dynamics you have or want.
Is the issue the call or where he is?

hugs,
live

Insulated

a courtesy call or text would suffice. I'm going to side with you on this topic.

Lotus2009

Thank you all so much for your responses.

Anvilhead-
Oh I know that my marriage is far from being healthy - What I meant was: what whould this look like if one is in a healthy relationship! I don't think it's a no-win situation - I would have been fine with a quick text (that would have been fine even if I'd been asleep) and I don't expect him to give me an exact time and location - a simple "I'm going out after work with friends and will be home late tonight" would have been fine. I know I need a boundary here... but I'm really at a loss as to what a boundary would look like. I could say: if he does it again, I will no longer let him know what I'm doing (but then it feels like I'm punishing/ trying to manipulate him)... really just don't know how to set a boundary for this particular issue (maybe it all just comes down to: this isn't working and at some point I will have had enough and move out?)!? Any ideas?

Suki & GiveLove -
EXACTLY!!! All I want is a heads up. And no, I don't think he is grownup enough to find a compromise that works for us both! - I can't even talk to him about it without him getting defensive (not just with this issue, but with any type of problem in general).

Live -
The issue is the call. Thanks for sharing your relationship experiences... Maybe it is the lack of trust that makes this issue even more important, maybe I wouldn't be as adamant about it, if there was more trust there and if he'd include me more in his life.

Live

Off the cuff, just rambling a bit here...okay?

My guy just left to go run some errands. I really don't know where all he is going or when he will be back. From past experience and what he said earlier I know that he has some materials and tools in mind and not just picking up my meds and some milk and potatoes. I know that with his stuff, he will take longer than I would..he will examine things slowly and carefully and price shop around and make extra stops just cause he wants to....and get distracted looking at all kinds of other stuff I am so not interested in...not even hearing about it. LOL
If it starts getting late I won't be worried that he is somewhere that isn't good for him, me or our relationship..I will worry that he has had some problems with the truck or etc and he didn't take the cell phone. He knows this. It happened once. And I told him that I was worried and asked him to phone next time. That situation hasn't come up again..but I am pretty sure that he would know that I have dinner plans we are both looking forward to and if he is really late I won't want to be cooking hours afer I had planned to. Frankly, I can't imagine him running around late so I don't really think about it and won't unless it happens.
What would I do if he doesn't come home?
Wow, I would start thinking about calling the hospitals and police! But then again, I would think I would be notified?
One time we had a date and I was invited to his house...he wasn't there and he wasn't there much later. I left a note asking if I was in the doghouse?. He was worried about being in the doghouse himself ....he had gone out with cousins and they were driving and they did decide to go to the bar. That was the last time he went out with them and he had already made that decisin before I spoke to him at all.
So, I do trust him and have confidence that he cares for my feelings and experience and does not want to worry or upset me. That is goodwill.
I don't have a time in mind for about how long he will be gone..I can keep myself busy.
I have been late too...more than he has...from being with a friend...when I come in..he is happy to see me and is busy doing his own thing. He likes it when I leave LOL...he gets to watch movies that I think are upsetting! I think he could watch more than one before he worried....well, I know so!
My sis often goes out for happy hour with friends or alone after work. She does not check in and he doesn't call her. This is okay with him, as far as I know. And he can guess, I am sure, where she is and what she is doing. Like my guy, he will grab something to eat and watch sports or whatever he wants to do.

There is alot of trust involved. If either of us were chronically doing something that upset the other and then blow it off...we have a real problem in our relationship....where is the mutual respect, care and concern? If we want to remain open, loving, vulnerable sharing...then we have to nurture that in the small and large things.

Maybe your guy thinks it is about him...rather than about you worrying or feeling that you don't count or whatever? So, when I spoke to him, if I were you, I would make sure that I made it about me and asked for it as a caring gesture that you need..not about what he should do. Does that make sense?

I, myself, cannot stand to be suffocated. I was in a bad relationship once where there was trouble if I was late after work, so that I didn't feel free to stop by daughters or do much of anything. That definitely doesn't work! I do have a life and friends beyond just this relationship...and my partners need to not just respect that about me, but love me for who I am the way I am. I do want to be considerate but not controlled.

Ramble. I can look at this a dozen ways! LOL
I suppose it is whatever works!

hugs,
Live

Tiredofdrugs

Lotus2009:

If you are in a committed relationship, then you should have no problem letting each other know where you are at all times. My ex-husband was too extreme on this though. I was put on a time line of having to be in the house or checked in by 6:00 pm. I spent three days in jail because I didn't make it home by 6:00 pm one evening and he exploded. (This was back before I had a cell phone and I was stuck on the freeway). I called 911. He had a scratch under his chin from our pet. I went to jail because of that. We had had a horrible screaming, him knocking me around fight.

My husband now of four years! We are very much in love and trust each other with no doubts about the other. We have no problem checking in with each other. It's called a courtesy to each others' welfare, safety and peace of mind. We have no hold on each others' time line when we are out or a set time to be home. We both know each others pass words to all of our stuff. Neither one of us want the other to feel like we might be hiding something from the other. It just makes for an unhealthy relationship. Suspicions will start growing, distrust, believing all sorts of wrongful thoughts. We aren't going to put ourselves there. Life is too short to live with all sorts of extra worries.

Lotus2009: I can tell from your story you are very upset about your husband not checking in with you. Do you always check in with him? Do you have his 100% trust on what you're doing? If you don't have a problem with him hanging out anywhere he wants to at anytime he wants to, then try to convince him that's not the problem here. You just want to know he's okay. If there was an emergency in your life at the time he's not home with you. Can he understand why it would make you feel better knowing where he's at?

Some men/women are hell bent on keeping some of their freedom. They don't want to feel completely chained to a relationship. Hopefully this is the problem you two are having and he's not really trying to hide something from you. Only time and talking will tell.

I wish you the best and good luck with getting this solved.

Live

I just remembered in the what is normal question? LOL

My folks have been married near 55 years and they are a very happy couple...my dad goes fishing way north in Canada and mom doesn't even know which week, leave alone which day he is coming home..and he doesn't phone either. There is no problem between them about this...my dad is an attentive, loving, caring husband.
He just takes fishing and other trips at times...mom no longer likes traveling at all. He always has. This works for them.

stella27

It is so odd and amazing to me (a newbie in recovery and divorce) that they all have such similar traits! My stbxah took great pride and pleasure in never telling me what his plans were - just doing what he wanted with no regard for whether I might be worried or concerned.

My dad lets my mom know when he's going to be late; I let people who care about me know that I am tied up; friends' husbands let them know that they will be home in an hour...I think it is being considerate, and when you ask someone to let you know and they REFUSE, I think that is disrespectful.

TakingCharge999

Hi Lotus, you are not alone in your struggles.

I know I can go crazy not knowing when my partner will arrive, because I like to do yoga and know I won't be bothered or interrupted if I'm upside down. Meanwhile he goes crazy other times, because in my job I never know when I will get out, and sometimes I don't even go to sleep or arrive at 3 or 4 am, until the issue is solved..

I agree the thing is to communicate and to agree on what works for both... and if you are frustrated you got to say "hey, was this not clear?" and sit down and work out something that allows no one to feel stalked or controlled or controlling...


anvilhead is right on, in my case I would feel very angry if the partner goes drinking without even telling me... but if he is at work or the gym or with family or whatever else, I would take it differently and be OK....

With other partners if they don't share their plan I don't share mine either and go about my life as if they didn't exist, sometimes when they count on you and you are not there they 'get' how it feels... but when I have started to do that... usually the relation doesn't last much longer.

Lotus2009

Thanks @ all

Anvil-
Oh... I see what you meant by no-win... Yes, you're right. Hm, I guess my boundary would have to be something along the lines of: if that happens again, I will not obsess over it and I will proceed to have as normal an evening as possible. Easier said than done... obsessing is so much easier ... I guess it's time to practice not obsessing even more!! Thanks for sharing your boundary! Yes, I have told him to let me know when he does go out after work, but I don't think he really ever took the time to understand what I was saying, he always goes into defensive/denial/ blaming mode (so maybe I need to approach it from a different angle as TiredOfDrugs and Live mentioned)

Live-
Thanks for the many examples (wasn't rambling - actually really helpful). I was thinking back to one of the relationship I had before AH, there was a lot of trust and the dynamics where a lot like the ones you describe. I like your statement "There is alot of trust involved. If either of us were chronically doing something that upset the other and then blow it off...we have a real problem in our relationship....where is the mutual respect, care and concern?" and I think that's why I have such a problem with this. It's the lack of trust and the lack of open communication that really bothers me (conversations about issues always turn into either a lecture by me or an arguement - for some reason he can not deal with confrontation or problems. During conversations he either completely shuts down (and then I feel like I'm just lecturing), or he goes into defensive/attacking mode (in which case it is all about who "wins" for him and not so much about finding a solution or compromise or even understanding the other party). If I even mention the words "I want to talk", I get a "oh no, what now" response from him. Maybe I really need to be more careful about the way I present the issues... maybe I really need to go about it from a different angle (Like you suggested: make it about me, rather than pointing at him).

TiredOfDrugs-
Thanks for pointing out another angle to approach it from. I usually check in with him - not to the extreme - i.e. I tell him I am going to run errands for a while. I'm not expecting him to check in with me every minute of every day - just to the point where I have a general idea as to what his plans are, i.e. if he will be home right after work or if he's gonna go out and I can expect him to come home late. But I think, you might be right... maybe he feels like he would be chained down if he'd check in with me... maybe that's the issue.

Stella-
I know, it's crazy when you read other people's post on here and know exactly what they mean because the A in your life acts the exact same way!

TC-
Thanks! I think it all comes down to communication - if that part isn't working in a relationship, chances are that everything else will slowly fall apart!

Live

so, the honey came home sooner than I expected...so I asked him (being a guy) what he thinks.
He says that he wouldn't phone after work just because he stopped off at a bar...but if he were still there say 45-hour later, he would call out of courtesy.
He says the question for him would be more of why would he want to go out to a bar to socialize and hangout without me. He would rather go out with me. (not just to a bar).
(He is not big on socializing, however..so factor that in.)
I have been on both sides of this...so I found it best between he and I since this was a topic under discussion to simply ask him his thinking.
I am more prone to socialize with friends and have fun doing whatever on a girls day out.
I didn't disagree with anything he said...so things are clear between us.
So, in practice, .....we just talk through these things...they aren't threatening subjects...
And, yeah, he would and does do his own thing when I am gone and wouldn't worry unless I were really late.

Live

oops, we were posting at the same time! LOL

okay, guys do think differently.
I can't imagine a group of guys having this discussion! LOL
And now he is teasing me by "calling me" by calling out my name from the other rooms from time to time.
I think it is telling that his last "call" was: "HONEY! Why am I in a bar?"
Between the two of us, he and I, it is more likely that I would end up in one with friends or family....gabbing away. I probably wouldn't think any thing of it because of where I was...but I know that at some point I would call just to check in and probably to also say I was having fun with friends, don't worry, I will be home when I get there.
If I did this often, there would be a problem, I imagine.
I will ask him! LOL

It does sound that you both need to find a way to talk where there is less anger and defensiveness.
Can you make the phone call about a phone call and not about respect? It gets really loaded when we put it in those terms and open communication would get really stopped up, I would think.

I do know I couldn't have such a straightforward and open chat with my XABF!!!

hugs,
live

Live

I was thinking that about you, Anvil!

Are you teasing me again?!!!!

smooch! :P

(let's go get our hair done! that is an all day girl trip!)

Lotus2009

HAHAHA, You two got me laughing again THANKS!!! I'm feeling much better (well besides my cold symptoms - argh)!

We (AH and I) do need to get rid of all that tension somehow... hm... I liked your sketti-sauce talk idea, but I'm really not sure how well that would work. At this point it's really hard to catch him at a time when he is sober/not hungover. Usually if I even try to start talking about something serious, he likes to walk away or has more important things to do - which is why I started the "do you have time to talk" approach, that is usually responded by rolling eyes and a "what now". We'll see, how much longer we'll make it - at this point I'm not very optimistic that our marriage will last too much longer. BUT I KNOW I CAN ALWAYS RELY ON THIS FORUM WHEN I'M IN NEED OF SOME STRENGTH AND ADVICE -

Live

oh, I am glad you are laughing!
Now, I am moaning...why wasn't he LATE...now I have to cook that big meal I talked about! giggle.
I liked the sketti sauce idea too..but mine would figure it out! LOL He would know that I was feeling uncomfortable about the conversation because I am a blurt it out kinda gal..but ya never have to wonder what is on my mind or what I am thinking! LOL
Maybe that is why he watches movies by himself hahahahahahaha,

HUUUUUUNY! My friend needs some chicken soup! Go TAKE it to her! ( now, I don't have to cook!)

HUGS!
Live

PS on a more serious note...have you tried writing him a letter? I do that when I am feeling too vulnerable about a conversation ...and having hard copy paper in hand seems to make guys give it a bit more reality and thought?

freya

My perspective on this is a little different. In my family of origin, I have 3 brothers and 1 father. All straight, all men-born-male. Every single one of them, if they are not going to be where they've said they're going to be when they've said they're going to be there or when they know someone will be expecting them to be there, call and say so...I know this because they sure as h*ll did it when we were still at home and I've been with each of them since adulthood on more than one occasion when they've done this.

I've also been present a few times to overhear them telling some other guy, who doesn't get the basic courtesy of this simple behavior, that it is indeed basic courtesy and that he needs to man-up and do it. (I think the "man-up" part is especially relevant here -- because a lot of guys seem to have some weird idea that such behavior is "unmanly," especially if it looks like they have to "check-in" with a woman.) I've gotten the impression that sometimes the other guy is taken aback by this, but the men in my family present their thoughts and feelings on this in such a way as the other guy always seems to "get" the point..and to get that my family members consider it kinda schmucky, and not at all manly, for anyone of any sex or gender not to practice simple courtesy.

My 2 sons are the same way. I raised them like we were raised: if there is probably someone waiting for and/or expecting you at a certain time and that person might be concerned if you're not there or waste time waiting for you that he/she could be spending on something else, then you call. Even like when they're home visiting and they go out and then decide for whatever reason that they're not coming home that night: if you're old enough to stay out all night and that's what you want to do, then OK, but that means you're also old enough to know and practice courteous behavior.

And, actually, both of my sons have talked to me about the fact that they've had to "train" certain roommates / housemates in this regard. (The fact that they're both excellent cooks and have at points ceased to cook for roomies who persist in not showing up when they've said they would has probably been a helpful incentive in this regard.)

Anyways, from what I've seen and from what my brothers and my sons say, my best guess is that for many people who resist or even get p*ssed off at any suggestion that they behave with simple courtesy in this regard, there are some issues both of maturity, independence and self-centeredness. Maturity in the "you're not the boss of me" sense; independence insofar as they fear being/looking weak and/or controlled; and self-centeredness in that they just totally fail to take into account anyone's comfort and ease but their own.

freya

Lotus2009

LOL... yum chicken soup

P.S. I have written letters/notes before but I don't think that really works well either... I wonder if he even reads them or just glances at them, realizes it's something he doesn't want to deal with and just blocks it out.

Lotus2009

Yes, yes and yes! I think all of these points very much describe his mindset - especially the "you're not the boss of me" way of thinking. Sometimes I think, this is what it must be like when you are dealing with teenage kids.