FindingPeace1

So, my husband is back to "normal". I have spent the last 2 days doing GREAT Step 4 work, but am cranky when he is around.

This morning, as I investigated my feelings, I found I was PISSED!!! at my AH for his behavior the other day. PISSED!!!!

I was feeling confused about my upset.
Me: Why can't I talk to him and tell him he hurt my feelings? Can I not talk about ANY of his crummy behaviors?
SR answer in my head: You can't control him. You won't change him. Why do you want to do it?

Hmmm....
Alright. My resentment/anger is a message I need a boundary. What is it?
Well, that one came right away! Getting pissed, stomping out, breaking a cup, cursing me, giving me the silent treatment and not apologizing is NOT OKAY. Meaning, I won't stick around with that crumminess.

Suddenly, I felt lighter. I am still giving it the 6 months. In large part, at this point, to practice boundary setting and detachment. But I also realize I can share that boundary with him now and say I'm giving it 6 months, but that behavior is not acceptable to me, period.

WOO HOO! I am doing this thing! I am working the steps! Working on myself! Listening to me! Hooray!

FindingPeace1

I get that. It feels good to figure this stuff out. And I get I need to know it for me me me.
Thanks.

MissFixit

I agree with Anvil (Hi Anvil!). I don't think that anyone needs to share boundaries with another especially if that person is an active A. They react too bizarely.

naive

hi wife-

i feel concern that he threw a cup. if i recall correctly, he also smashed a bottle in the livingroom a while back. that's how it started with mine. exactly. he threw a coffee cup.

then he threw 3 mangos. then he threw a kitchen knife. then he smashed the door down. then he smashed me down.

it didn't happen in one day. it evolved into that ONCE HE FELT THREATENED BY ME SETTING BOUNDARIES.

just a head's up, girlfriend.

and i'll second anvil's advice, keep your six months to yourself.

you say to him: i'm giving this relationship six months, for things to improve between us.

alcoholic in head: great! i've got six more months of freeloading off her.

you say: if things don't improve, i'm leaving.

alcoholic in head: she's said similar things before and never done them.

you say: i'm really upset that we're unable to communicate about things that bother me.

alcoholic in head: better be nice to her for a few days, then everything can get back to normal.

pray4joy

I have to admit that the boundaries are more for us than for the person crossing them. I have not had too much luck in getting positive result from stating a boundary, especially if I have expressed it in an angry or upset or victim tone [Dog Whisperer would say I didn't have calm assertive energy and I think there is something to that with humans as well as dogs]
Here is what is happening here with me...about 6 weeks ago, I expressed to my STBXAH that once I was able to put together all I needed to I was making my exit. I did not give a date, I did not say anything further about it...we have had a couple King Baby episodes but I didn't let him see it manipulate me. I came here to work through it. For the most part, things have stayed relatively calm partly because I have stayed calm and my focus is on moving my life forward.
I have spent years telling where boundaries are to AH, he crossed boundaries even though he knew and he did not honor them or me. The boundaries are for us to set for ourselves. IMO I don't buy that people don't know how to treat one another properly, drunk or sober, they simply don't care about someone else's feelings/property because it doesn't serve their immediate mindset/motivation.
Forgiveness is fine after one or two "errors", you tell someone they hurt your feelings or upset you by their behavior - if they keep on doing it, it has to become clear they have something else in mind. This is the point where we set OUR boundaries...IF ___ continues ___ I will ____.

FindingPeace1

yea, naive. thanks.
he did throw the cup. he didn't smash a bottle (maybe someone else?).
its funny. I look around the house and see things now - coffee spills or wine spills in the past or a burn mark on the counter - and wonder what it came from. Alcohol related?
I am questioning everything.

A good friend said he found this latest incident violent. Not outrageously so, but the cursing my friend saw as very abusive.
I realize I don't have great discernment for what is "normal" "human" imperfection and what is abusive.
I do realize this whole recent scene is just NO.
I am still working on the rest.

I do want to tell him I do not find what happened acceptable and I will continue to acknowledge behavior I find unacceptable and share how it makes me feel. That is good practice for me in baby boundary setting.

I am chilling on this rainy day listening to Charlie and Joe's Big Book on audio. Very good stuff. Downloads & mp3's from silkworth.net

Pray4Joy - I LOVE the Dog Whisperer!

NYC_Chick

Hugs, wife!

I found that after finding out about xabf's alcoholism, it was better to not tell him too much of how I felt and what I might do. The truth was that I was not prepared to leave until he absolutely put me over the edge, and he knew it. I think it's good to share your feelings, but understand you will likely be talking to a wall.

FindingPeace1

Uhhh...still alot of blocks around this I am observing. I feel scared to make a wrong decision, push him away, lose the good I have, or follow through on the consequence. Okay. Just had to get that out of the way.

If he displays aggressive, hostile behaviors or curses me, I will not stay in the same room or continue talking with him. (If I felt I had to leave the house altogether, I would leave the marriage.)

He doesn't come home drunk.

I feel confused with the communication thing. He won't communicate. I want a boundary around that, but I don't know what because I am UBERcommunicator, so I think the level I would LIKE communication is not reasonable/healthy, so I am reticent to establish anything around that with myself at this point.

I am stymied around lying and the hidden drinking. I want to say I am done in the marriage if those happen, but they already have, so I feel like I am a wuss if I don't pack up.

I don't want to pack up because...
* I know I can't run away from my own stuff, so why not stay and work on me?
* I feel I am seeing who he *really* is, which I denied and its a good wake up call.
* I have a therapy appointment (through our joint insurance - which he pays for -) tomorrow. Also, I...

(OH LORDY I am being vulnerable!! Please be gentle with me!)

* ...am not working and have every day to work on my stuff, do step work, read self-help books, meditate, journal and have freedom to go to retreats or whatever I want,
* as well as practice my being in the moment and not freaking out and looking at my feelings when he upsets me, which he does regularly, although with less and less impact.
* Also, to be honest, it sounds hard.

Alot of the emotional reaction has faded (for the time being?) and I have practical concerns.

I am getting a lot out of this time and I don't want to jump into packing/moving/finding a place to stay/finding a job/temporary financial hardship.

Is that so shallow and selfish? I think it is. I don't want to let it go.

Comments?

pray4joy

It's okay to want to take time to do inner work, if you are safe and things are "quiet" it can serve you well...no matter what you ultimately decide to do.
I hear you saying you are not ready to make any concrete decisions about leaving yet. Only you can make the decision when is the right time or if it is the right thing.
As you do your work though you may find it more and more difficult to stick around.

FindingPeace1

(Wife laughs a knowing laugh.)
Do I have enough years IN MY WHOLE LIFE to get through it all? Lifetimes, anvil. I have enough for lifetimes.

MissFixit

I will say one thing about the financial dependence and security. Active A's are NOT reliable AT ALL in any area...even money. Things might be okay now, but without a concrete plan B that ensures your future, you are just banking on an unstable man that you KNOW cannot be counted on. When and if you need to leave, most A's do not make this easy. Also, any promises he makes regarding helping you financially, you can pretty much throw out the window.

I watched my ex make things hard for his first wife. I actually supported him doing more for her as I thought that how he treats her could be how he treats me one day. We were not married but long term SO's and supposed to get married last summer. He left me without doing ANY of the things he had promised for years. I never thought he would leave me with debt he told me to take out...but that was my naiveity.

Many of us learn that the ONLY people we can really count on are ourselves. As harsh as it is, that is the truth. Please don't get comfty thinking that HIS financial security will always be there.

FindingPeace1

Thank you MissFixIt.
I can go, if I need to. I have people to stay with and could be making money right away (in a different town/state). I could even get a loan if I needed money to get out. I have a working car, so I am good to get out, if I need to.
I am realizing my AH's secrecy around his own credit/debts is a serious concern, though.
I have a 2010 goal to get a permanent job because of this concern. I have been applying.

NYC_Chick

That sounds like a good idea. I have not been financially dependant on another person and would not be at this point in my life. Being with an active alcoholic and growing up with an alcoholic father that gave very little financial support will do that to a person. At least a job, no matter what it brings in will give you a little more security. Hang in there. You're doing a lot of great and hard work : )

FindingPeace1

Thanks. I love financial security, too! But you have to remember, I was pregnant, going to be a SAH mom and raise our babies just 2 months ago. So, its a lot of life changes coming fast!

naive

hey wife-

really glad you got here before you had that baby. i know it's a lot to swallow quickly. it takes time. just keep working your process. keep talking, keep posting. there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

naive

FindingPeace1

I was able to say, "The other night when you...list behaviors here, I felt...list feelings here. And I didn't like it."
It was scary and I was proud of myself.
He lowered his head and said, "Okay."
I didn't ask for more.

Today, he asked me, "Is it over?"
I replied that I wasn't done. I still have things I want that he doesn't that I haven't let go of yet.
He said, "Like changing me?"
I said, "Like you communicating and working with me."
He said he was shut down. That he wasn't recoiled before all this happened.
"Neither was I," I said.
He said maybe he shouldn't feel this way but he felt justified to be recoiled.
I said, "That's your choice, but you're going to lose me if you don't come out."
He shrugged helplessly.
I felt neither here nor there. Drove off to start my day.

Today is knitting, listening to more Big Book with Charlie and Joe, more Step 4 and therapy.
Wife

jaguarpcb

I just wanted to jump in here about the boundaries you've stated.

That's a fantastic boundary....if he does this, I'll do that.....awesome!

This is not really a boundary, it's a demand, and it relies entirely on HIM not coming home drunk. It doesn't say what you will do to take care of yourself when he comes home drunk.

Start the boundary like this: "If he comes home drunk, I will...."

Again, it doesn't sound like you are trying to form a boundary here, it sounds like you want to convince him to communicate more. He may or may not communicate more, but you have no control over that. Instead a healthy boundary about communication might be "If he can't start opening up to me in the next 3 months I'll accept that he just doesn't communicate as much as I wish he did. At that time I will decide if I'm willing to live with that or not."

And you go ahead and want the level of communication you want, don't feel as if you don't have the right to that desire.

And remember, these don't need to be things you tell him. Boundary setting is NOT about getting him to behave the way you want, it's about protecting yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally. It's about deciding the things you will and will not accept in your life, and what you will do when someone tries to bring those things into your life.

I set my first boundary with my husband on his first sober day....and I hadn't even admitted his alcoholism or my codependency at that point! I told him that if he got drunk again I would not stick around to watch, I would call my sister, call my mom, call a friend, or just go out by myself for dinner and a movie. I didn't know I was "setting a boundary," all I knew was that it wasn't OK for me to sit around being miserable because he went on a binge.

FindingPeace1

Judi,
Thanks for your great post.
I wasn't setting a boundary about him not coming home drunk, I was just replying to the previous post, saying I don't need a boundary about that.

The communication one was not me setting a boundary, either. It is me talking about the issue. I know I can have any kind of boundary I want, but I also have concerns about being unreasonable. For example, in my fantasy world, he processes his deepest issues in a totally open and vulnerable way and asks me to be a support for him to do that. I don't think that is reasonable for me to set a boundary about. I also see his current behavior (no communication) is not acceptable. I am still feeling my way to the middle point where a boundary would be reasonable.

Hope that makes sense.

Wife

NYC_Chick

Be careful about his statements or shutting down because of what you did. Xabf used to "shut down" conveniently when his drinking and bad behavior came up as a way to blame me and/or shut me up so he could continue to do as he pleased without regard to me. When he would shut down, it was a waiting game until he decided to speak to me again. It was torture and he knew it.

myawakening

"I was able to say, "The other night when you...list behaviors here, I felt...list feelings here. And I didn't like it."
It was scary and I was proud of myself.
He lowered his head and said, "Okay."
I didn't ask for more."

These simple sentences would have started an all out war in my house! He could never see how his actions and comments hurt me. Once I get drawn into yet another replay of our life...he throws everything but the kitchen sink at me. Same garbage different day! Excuse me for wanting a better life!

His favorite thing was picking on me in front of people...making me the butt of his stupid jokes...like I didn't have feelings.

Naive-mine came after me with a carving knife in his hands three days before I left!!

As I sit here in the peace and quiet of my new home and reflect on it all...boy am I glad there is distance between he and I.

I read in one othe Al Anon books a pretty good phrase that seems to stick with me. I'm not in front of my books so I might not get the wording exactly...but you get the drift.

"Trying to stop an alcoholic from drinking when they don't want to is like trying to stop an avalanche. You simply can't. But what you can do is take care of you. Get out of the way and let them suffer the natural consequences of their behavior."

Says so much...good luck girl!