Elsie

I was just curious about your opinion on this.
With my ABF, our past was REALLY rocky. There were many knock down drag out fights. He kicked me out of his apartment on many occasions.
Said nasty, hurtful things. I won't rehash everything.

This January we broke up. This June he said he changed, and I saw change.
Since June it's gotten bad again, but so far not as bad as our past. (known each other 3 years)

I am still bitter about the past, it wasn't fun, and I'm scared to be back in that situation again.

My question is, how big does the past play into the future?
Since things have gotten worse, it's been kind of an even keel.
I feel myself pulling away from him, and I think it's because I'm afraid to be hurt again if it gets really bad again.

I keep seeing that this is a progressive disease....how worried should I be for my future?
Tonight I started implementing a boundry.
We were having a somewhat normal conversation about us and our relationship and he once again insinuated that he thought I was cheating on him. I've never cheated on him, infact I've never cheated on anyone! So I told him I was done for the night. He texted, called, emailed, I did not reply.

Just wondering....how important in your past, with regards to your future?

Kittyboo

Incredibly important. IMO, especially if he is already starting to slip back into past behavior. No matter if it's not "as bad" as it was...... it doesn't look promising.

I will say that I have had to learn from my past. I have chosen the same kind of men many times, and hmmmm, gotten the SAME results. My past plays a HUGE factor on the choices I make for my future.

I don't know your whole story, but I assume he is still drinking? Or in a program?
If he's not even in a recovery program, you can be pretty sure that should you stay with him right now, you will end up right where you were, with possibly even greater pain because you will have to go through a break up process all over again.

I read over and over on here that they are such convincing liars. My former was too. They will say ANYTHING to get their emotional needs met.

Honestly, though, your question is really in regards to any relationship. How someone treats you in the past is a perfect indicator of how they will treat you in the future....alcoholic or not.

He said he changed? What changes did he make, what changes did you see? What actions to go with those words?

Elsie

Yes, he is still drinking, but not as much or as often (from what I see, I do not live with him anymore) and he doesn't drink the same stuff he did before. He said that it was that certain "drink" that made him SO angry, and he knows that if he touches it again I'm a gonner. (Hey! A boundry! LOL I didn't even realize that it was one until now!)

The changes he made before, were: he was seeing a therapist, and either not drinking or harldy drinking at all.
I saw positive changes in him.
Now, he no longer sees a therapist, but he wants to attend counselling with me.
And he's back to drinking everyday, a mix of beers with vodka with something in it (soda water and juice, fresca, orange juice)
Oh, and we're back to arguing very often. He disagrees and said we don't argue all that much.
He's always acussing me of lying and meeting other men.

Kittyboo

I know how it is to love someone truly, and want to be with them and see them though tough times, but.....

if you want a truly healthy relationship, you will not get it as long as he is drinking, period. And who's to say that he would be able to offer it to you if he stopped either, that's another bridge. There are so many changes that someone goes through when battling an addiction, and this is why they generally say that someone who is in recovery should not be in a relationship for atleast one year.

But alcohol is alcohol. IMHO. I heard the SAME thing from my former.... "but i've stopped drinking wine and now i'm JUST drinking beer".....then 2 weeks later.. "but i'm not drinking beer, just some wine." And my FAVORITE..."but I drink A LOT of water".
Quack quack quack....

Hey, i'm all for therapy! And I think it's great that he wants to go WITH you. But, it could also just be a cover up so that he thinks you feel like he's doing SOMETHING...but hmmmm, he can still drink.

Honestly, it really comes down to what you are willing to put up with. You should expect the same from someone that you give to them. And if you know he is not offering you that, then it's up to you to decide when you're done.

Pelican

Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior.

I learned that here at SR and found it to be true.

laurie6781

If the drink has alcohol in it they are all the same.

His behaviors will escalate as long as he CONTINUES TO DRINK. His only recourse is abstenience and some help, ie rehab and then a program, preferably one with meetings, a therapist and then a program, preferably one with meetings, etc and eventually you might see some improvement.

The past is very important in predicting the present and the future when the person is making no changes.

It is progressive, the behaviors and actions always get worse, not better until the one afflicted with the addiction HITS THEIR BOTTOM and some never do they die out there.

Now, what are you doing for you to live a healthy, serene and peaceful life? Interacting with him certainly cannot be very healthful (the ongoing stress) or serene and peaceful (the ongoing DRAMA and CHAOS whether real or manufactured by him).

The older I get, the longer I am sober and clean (28 1/2 years now) the longer I have been in Alanon (25 1/2 years now) I can only counsel .......................... RUN .......................... GO NO CONTACT ............................... get AWAY FROM the practicing alcoholic/addict .................................. for your OWN SANITY AND SAFETY.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Lotus2009

Something you said that stood out to me was "I feel myself pulling away from him, and I think it's because I'm afraid to be hurt again if it gets really bad again" How bad does it have to get for you to be hurt again... to me it seems like you might already be starting to hurt again, hence you are pulling away!?

I was always the one trusting my feelings and following them... somewhere within the past year I tried pushing all the negative feelings I was feeling away, because I didn't want to accept what my body was telling me. Just recently I have noticed how angry I have become... and I couldn't seem to let it go. So I was trying to figure out how to get rid of that anger... I researched some sites online to figure out how make my anger go away... and in the process I stopped and realized that I needed to first look at why I had all this anger. The anger was there for a reason - AH was treating me badly and my anger was telling me that what he was doing was not ok! It was there to protect me... to tell me that this situation is unhealthy and I need to do something about it!

I don't know your story, but I know how much emotional damage alcoholics cause. Could this be your body telling you that you two haven't really ever worked through the problems of the past? That you need to take things very, very slow and that he needs to show you that you can fully trust him, before you let him in again?

I know how much it hurts to let go of a relationship, if you are still in love with the person. I am still living with AH and going back and forth between wanting to leave and wanting to stay. It is the fantasy of the two of us living as a happy couple that I'm holding on to.

Please take care of yourself and don't minimize the red flags you are seeing!

BuffaloGal

Every situation is different, but setting alcoholism aside for the moment: jealousy and groundless accusations of infidelity are bad news. Not okay. My interpretation would be, that's a bigger red flag than how much he is or isn't drinking.

And, I have read that those who are most likely to suspect that their partners are having an affair, without any evidence, are those who've either been an affair partner, or have had their own piece on the side. I don't have any personal experience there though so maybe someone else can toss in their 2 cents worth.

In my experience, the problems of the past don't go away; there's a whole lot more where they came from. My former husband drinks more and is much less honest with me than he was 10 years ago... and he drank a lot and had a pretty flexible view of telling the truth then. Love him, but no matter how much I miss him, I don't miss the stress that came from living with him.

AWEDA

I went way back into my past to discover why I married an alcoholic and why I thought it was okay to let someone treat me like that. Check your childhood most things come from there. You have to be totally honest about it.

FreeBird09

If what you are saying is true, then how can we .... we, as in the spouses, BF/GF/Parent of Alcoholics, and Addicts say that WE have changed. For me my past behavior is NOTHING like who I am today. That statement keeps someone locked in the belief that people do not change, and they do. I can attest to that, I have changed so much I don't recognize myself. Remember, they are not just the addicts, we are addicted to them!.

If they are active in an addiction, you can rest assured that they will act the way they did before, because there was no growth. BUT, that can not be a blanket statement.

What I get from that statement was a lot of mind games played, as the axbf lurks here in these pages, twists what is said by us who are hurting because of the actions of the active A.

What I don't mind about that is... I have changed, and he is getting some form of help by being here in the pages, reading what huge hurt is upon us.

Kittyboo

free bird, I can appreciate your side, and it's great that you have gone through changes.... I have as well in my life. I would never do certain things today that I did years ago.

But you know what, those things that I did years ago have left impressions with people that don't exactly paint me as the perfect person. And those people have a right to their opinion of me. That is the result of choices that I made that were not the best, that is the result of MY action.
Though some people may think that I haven't changed, does that make it true? No it doesn't.

But there is a reason why the phrase "past behavior is the best indicator if future bahavior" is so popular..... Because it IS true for the majority.
The phrase isn't a personal attack on anyone.
If there were people who chose to let me back in their life, I would expect that it would take time for them to see I had changed.

The SAME applies to romantic relationships. Sure, people change, everybody changes.... But I'm sorry, if you treat me like crap, cheat on me, lie to me....and I put up with it. Chances are if I took you back after all if that, you'd end up treating me the same way. We teach people how to treat us.

You states that if he's still In active addiction, then his actions will probably be the dame. I think that was the point.
No one is saying that people can't change. But tgat person has to want to change for themselves not anyone else. JMHO.

FreeBird09

Kittyboo, If everyone (blanket statement) never accepted that a person can change, then we (blanket) would surely miss out on someone great because we (blanket) are so damaged by the past that we can't accept that someone can change. I don't take offense to anyone's opinion. It is as it is, and the only change that can occur is within myself, everyone is responsible for their actions, and reactions.

Actions do speak louder then words, and if the people that were in your life in the past, and are in your life now can't see the changes you have made, or rely on an old set of standards, then I am sorry for them, and for you. I am sure they are missing out on a great person (if you are acting (genuine) as if).

I did not read your story.. I was just saying, although we (blanket) have been hurt, don't close off to the possibility that people are good, people can change, and the past does not have to continue predicting our future. We make what our tomorrow (or today) is. We can CHOOSE to be Victorious, or continue being the Victim.. wether we are the A, or the one who loves (in love with) the A.

Have a Fantastic 2010!. ;-)

GiveLove

In my years of being here, and years involved with addiction and recovery, I too have found that past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. It is not the ONLY indicator. It is just the best one in most cases.

Especially when active addiction is involved, and when bad behaviors continue to surface (accusations, abuse), it is a very safe bet that the relationship is on a slippery slope to where it used to be.

That does not mean to automatically give up on someone who is currently in recovery and making an effort, FreeBird. It means being realistic that the potential does exist for them to slip again, regardless of their best (current) intentions, because the path of least resistance is back into old habits and old patterns. We reserve our best celebrations for those who never give in to the temptation to go back to those old patterns

But in Elsie's case.....she is in an abusive relationship with an active alcoholic, and sadly, with all the excuses and accusations and blame-shifting, it looks as though he has no intention of seeking any sort of permanent recovery. Past behavior...

Elsie, wishing you well. I'm glad you are here with us, where you can arm yourself with stories of the good, the bad, and the ugly.....and then make your own choices. You deserve a joyful life.

nodaybut2day

My XAH did the same thing...went from Jack & Coke to beer, but heck, it was still 2 liters of beer per day, plus all the other drinks his friends would buy him when he went out. I thought this meant he had "changed", but now I realize it didn't mean a thing.

Elsie, my XAH did the exact same thing...we argued constantly, but he minimized it...or said it was my fault and that I was "looking for arguments". I also was accused of lying and spreading my legs to anyone who would look my way. Ha, if he only knew how completely uninterested in men I had become, mostly because of HIM!

Drinking aside, this lack of trust is something that needs some serious work--individual work at that. In my experience with my constantly lying XAH, it never changed. He was NEVER able to trust me fully. Even after we separated, he accused me to publicily announcing that I was ready for a shag. I should have realized that he wouldn't change just by listening to him describe every former girlfriend as a cheater...deep down inside, I think my XAH hates women and will forever distrust them. I honestly don't see how he could change this aspect of himself.

If I were in your shoes, I'd really want to address this important issue.

Kittyboo

I never ever said that I am closed off to the possibility of someone changing.

But if someone is with someone who physically abuses them, I would NEVER advise that person to go back because ....hey, maybe he/she has changed!
well maybe that person didn't change, and next time he breaks their leg.
But hey, entered rehab, and it's been a year and he's really changed!! Ok so go back. They go back and he murders them.
Things like that sadly happen.

Every situation is different. And it really comes down to what someone is willing to put up with. Free bird you have obviuosly worked on yourself, that's great. But I'm sorry, some people DONT deserve second chances to be with someone who they treat poorly, not just poorly but horribly.

My XA treated me like crap! Disposed of me has soon as he had no need for me. I hope for his sake he finds peace in his life, but do you think I would take him back because he changed???? NO WAY. I would consider being his friend, but that's it. That's the price paid for selfish hurtful actions.

Thumper

IME if the alcoholic is not in active recovery and abstaining from all alcohol, there will be a return of past behavior and a progression in the alcoholism.

I decided that if I was going to stick around for a change - I was going to do it from a distance. So - if my ah *becomes* a changed person I will discuss a relationship. I've been clear that this is not a promise of a relationship, this it is a promise to discuss our relationship. It may not be there anymore but I don't care about the promises of change, or the process of change, or the steps of change. I will wait for the actual changed man and talk to him about our relationship because I have finally decided (and accepted) that I am not accepting the unchanged man as a partner in my life on any level other then a co-parent.

So far - there has been no real changes. Perhaps less drinking but still drinking, still unemployed, still promises, still whining, still accusing, still blaming, still self-pitying still neglecting his family. He's still 'changing'. I'm still leaving.

FreeBird09

Kittyboo, personally I would never take them back. I think that my statement regarding people changing got a little out of hand, and I should have spent more time expressing exactly what I mean. I was referring to US, the 'victims" (I don't like that word) having the ability to change, as we do change.

We, being in the abusive situation act like we are out of control, BECAUSE of the situation, BUT when you are out of the situation, we change and may never go back to being out of control, by not being involved with people who are aggitators of a situation. (example of how we change for the better)

I am very sorry you are going through pure.. hell.. I have been there. I would never take my x's back, even if they did change. I spent 20+ years with an abuser, I would never recommend going back. I have been apart from him for 4 years, and he has asked me to come back. I would never go backwards for anyone, or anything especially an abuser.

I am just saying don't shut yourself off to the possibility of change. If we don't think anyone can change, then we can't believe that we can change.

I do not mean to offend you, if you feel that I have.

Kittyboo

I truly appreciate you expressing yourself, and I do have a better idea of where you are coming from.
Still, I don't think I, or anyone else is shut off to the possibity of change. So I don't think you need to do much convincing there.

Yes, we as the "victims" (I don't like that word either ) do often change for the better after situations like this. I know I am changing. I will no longer be an emotional doormat for someone. I needed to learn this lesson. My former made me hit my emotional rock bottom. That really made me look internally.

I am sorry for what you have endured in your life. It sounds as if you are stronger for it. And I actually really appreciate that you have an OPEN mind as far as people, there are a lot of closed minded people in the world about many things.
And really, my experience with my former could have been A LOT worse. I am grateful that it wasn't. My experience effects me in a certain way, but I don't pretend to know what many here are going through or have gone through.

SR is such a great place, I think, to come and find inner strength, and be able to help others find their own inner strength.
You didn't offend me.... the whole statement probably did get a little out of hand, but I think we are both just passionate about making our points.

tjp613

Elsie - I didn't have time to read all the responses, but from where I am sitting this has all the red flags of an abusive relationship. The biggest is that he is accusing you of cheating which is only a method of gaining more control over you. In order for you to "prove" that you're not cheating, you will check in more often, allow all kinds of breaches of your privacy, become available to him 24/7, and have to defend your choices for any and all pleasures that don't include him...to the point where it won't even be worth going out with any friends or family again...it just causes too much trouble! This is how they isolate you, which is just another stepping stone to greater and greater abuse.

Please proceed with extreme caution.