I can't face him
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
I can't face him
Mediation begins in 1 hour and 45 minutes. With each passing minute, I feel more and more queasy, nauseous and unsettled. I've tried my best to breathe, keep calm, focus on other things, but deep down inside, I'm truly petrified to face my X. I've seen him a handful of times since I left, and things were cordial though strained. But tonight, we're going to discuss what I consider to be of the utmost importancem and so my emotions are running all over the place...scared, panicky, desperate...did I mention scared??
I've often felt this way whenever I had to have a confrontation with him. It used to shock me when we were first together how ANGRY he could get, and how MEAN he could be. The words he'd spit out at me--perfectly targetted, would send me reeling. I'd try to fight back, sometimes shout back, but always end up on my proverbial backside, feeling like less than dirt, unworthy even to cry. What if I end up like that tonight? What if I can't fight or say a thing to defend myself? I've almost forgotten what a real fight with him can be like, but I need to be like a superlawyer if I'm going to get what I want!
Help!
I've often felt this way whenever I had to have a confrontation with him. It used to shock me when we were first together how ANGRY he could get, and how MEAN he could be. The words he'd spit out at me--perfectly targetted, would send me reeling. I'd try to fight back, sometimes shout back, but always end up on my proverbial backside, feeling like less than dirt, unworthy even to cry. What if I end up like that tonight? What if I can't fight or say a thing to defend myself? I've almost forgotten what a real fight with him can be like, but I need to be like a superlawyer if I'm going to get what I want!
Help!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
dear me, that was a lot of projection!
try to stay present. breathe. put it all in god's hand's.
your X is not the enemy. he is a sick person. i find it helpful to think of them as i would a child having a temper tantrum.
you can do this!
the only way to get rid of fear is to face it, head on.
so, on you go into the grotto, dear one.
thinking of you. and let us know how it goes.
naive
try to stay present. breathe. put it all in god's hand's.
your X is not the enemy. he is a sick person. i find it helpful to think of them as i would a child having a temper tantrum.
you can do this!
the only way to get rid of fear is to face it, head on.
so, on you go into the grotto, dear one.
thinking of you. and let us know how it goes.
naive
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
This is mediation. Mediation by definition means there is someone in the middle. There are rules. There are procedures to follow.
Put what you are hoping to get in the end aside for now. Concentrate on the moment at hand. Listen, listen, listen to what the mediator is saying or asking, not your A. Your A can yell, rant, rave, cajole, charm, whine, or cry. What you care about is what the mediator says and what gets put to paper. You do not have to address your A directly if you feel intimidated by him. Look at the mediator when you're talking. If your A wants answers from you over something, wait for the mediator to pose the question for you.
I've been in mediations for civil cases where both parties weren't even in the room with the mediator at the same time because of tension. The mediator sat down with each multiple times back and forth and then posed the compromised agreement to each. Every situation is different.
When in doubt, take a moment, ask for a breather to step outside a alone to collect yourself. Noone's going to drag you off to hades because you need a second to think.
I wish you the strenght, serenity, peace, and understanding in this stressful time.
Please write back after so we can support you!!
Alice
Put what you are hoping to get in the end aside for now. Concentrate on the moment at hand. Listen, listen, listen to what the mediator is saying or asking, not your A. Your A can yell, rant, rave, cajole, charm, whine, or cry. What you care about is what the mediator says and what gets put to paper. You do not have to address your A directly if you feel intimidated by him. Look at the mediator when you're talking. If your A wants answers from you over something, wait for the mediator to pose the question for you.
I've been in mediations for civil cases where both parties weren't even in the room with the mediator at the same time because of tension. The mediator sat down with each multiple times back and forth and then posed the compromised agreement to each. Every situation is different.
When in doubt, take a moment, ask for a breather to step outside a alone to collect yourself. Noone's going to drag you off to hades because you need a second to think.
I wish you the strenght, serenity, peace, and understanding in this stressful time.
Please write back after so we can support you!!
Alice
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Fake it til you make it.
Stay in the moment.
Don't awfulize.
Act as if.
Put on your game face. It's only temporary. I know you have the support of a lot of people here.
And silence can sometimes be golden. you don't have to yell. You don't have to fight back. This nightmare is almost over. You CAN do it. You'll be fine.
Stay in the moment.
Don't awfulize.
Act as if.
Put on your game face. It's only temporary. I know you have the support of a lot of people here.
And silence can sometimes be golden. you don't have to yell. You don't have to fight back. This nightmare is almost over. You CAN do it. You'll be fine.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Update:
The mediation session did not go very well. There were no shouts or threats; it was just plainly clear that things weren't going to be "resolved" then and there. The mediator started by explaining the purpose and advantages of mediation, he then took some information about both myself and XH. Last we discussed what has been done in terms of visit since my departure from XH's place. That's when XH stated that his only goal in coming to mediation was to obtain a signed agreement, from me, guaranteeing him shared custody as of the day DD turns 24 months.
I never even got to go into the "cons" of shared custody, according to me. All I did was mention that I was still nursing DD, in morning, down for naps, in the evenings and at night, and it seemed to set XH off. The mediator proposed that I let XH have DD from 9 to 5, to which I responded "that's not possible, since she nurses down for naps, so I'd need to be there." XH's answer to that was that his 12 year old son would be putting her to sleep, since he's done it a few times. Not him doing any of the work involved in caring for his child, his 12 year old.
Things came to head when the mediator asked me what I thought about shared custody: I said I had doubts. That's what "ended" the session,in retrospect. XH was already putting on his coat, making as if to leave, saying he was only there to discuss shared custody, and that if anything else were brought up, he'd be wasting his time, and that I needed to make a decision to that effect. The mediator suggested that we meet again next week, so we made the appointment, signed a form, and XH left.
Thankfully, a family friend (the 62 year old man my XH thinks I'm dating) was there before, during and after mediation, to pick me up and take me home.
Honestly, I'm disappointed. I think I hoped that XH would see the logic in giving me custody of DD. He barely took care of her before, and this way, he'd be absolved of most responsibility. Part-time parenting at its best. But, I was delusional in thinking that he could be honest about his lack of parenting skills or his alcohol consumption, which was brought up once during the session and immediately disregarded by XH.
Also, I feel a bit let down by the mediator. I think he just saw that things weren't going well and cut the session short to head off any arguing. Perhaps I expected him to "reason" with XH about what's best for the child, but he really was the impartial third party put in place to facilitate discussion.
I'm not really sure what happens next. We do have another appointment, but I feel that it will be futile. I need to talk to my lawyer to discuss what chances I have in this custody battle, but if she feels I could win it, I'd want to have him served asap.
The mediation session did not go very well. There were no shouts or threats; it was just plainly clear that things weren't going to be "resolved" then and there. The mediator started by explaining the purpose and advantages of mediation, he then took some information about both myself and XH. Last we discussed what has been done in terms of visit since my departure from XH's place. That's when XH stated that his only goal in coming to mediation was to obtain a signed agreement, from me, guaranteeing him shared custody as of the day DD turns 24 months.
I never even got to go into the "cons" of shared custody, according to me. All I did was mention that I was still nursing DD, in morning, down for naps, in the evenings and at night, and it seemed to set XH off. The mediator proposed that I let XH have DD from 9 to 5, to which I responded "that's not possible, since she nurses down for naps, so I'd need to be there." XH's answer to that was that his 12 year old son would be putting her to sleep, since he's done it a few times. Not him doing any of the work involved in caring for his child, his 12 year old.
Things came to head when the mediator asked me what I thought about shared custody: I said I had doubts. That's what "ended" the session,in retrospect. XH was already putting on his coat, making as if to leave, saying he was only there to discuss shared custody, and that if anything else were brought up, he'd be wasting his time, and that I needed to make a decision to that effect. The mediator suggested that we meet again next week, so we made the appointment, signed a form, and XH left.
Thankfully, a family friend (the 62 year old man my XH thinks I'm dating) was there before, during and after mediation, to pick me up and take me home.
Honestly, I'm disappointed. I think I hoped that XH would see the logic in giving me custody of DD. He barely took care of her before, and this way, he'd be absolved of most responsibility. Part-time parenting at its best. But, I was delusional in thinking that he could be honest about his lack of parenting skills or his alcohol consumption, which was brought up once during the session and immediately disregarded by XH.
Also, I feel a bit let down by the mediator. I think he just saw that things weren't going well and cut the session short to head off any arguing. Perhaps I expected him to "reason" with XH about what's best for the child, but he really was the impartial third party put in place to facilitate discussion.
I'm not really sure what happens next. We do have another appointment, but I feel that it will be futile. I need to talk to my lawyer to discuss what chances I have in this custody battle, but if she feels I could win it, I'd want to have him served asap.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I suggest that you write everything down for next time.
Including all the reasons and documentation for STBX NOT to have custody.
Make copies. Keep one for yourself and give 2 to the mediator.
The mediator needs facts.
I hope you find some calm after this rough event and next time you will know what to expect and you can be prepared.
hugs,
Tena
Including all the reasons and documentation for STBX NOT to have custody.
Make copies. Keep one for yourself and give 2 to the mediator.
The mediator needs facts.
I hope you find some calm after this rough event and next time you will know what to expect and you can be prepared.
hugs,
Tena
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
i'm a bit confused...
isn't the reason that you don't want him alone with DD his drinking, rather than the nursing issue?
is the reason you didn't stress this point (a very valid one) because you are scared of AH reaction? why not let the mediator see his anger, if so?
am i missing something?
isn't the reason that you don't want him alone with DD his drinking, rather than the nursing issue?
is the reason you didn't stress this point (a very valid one) because you are scared of AH reaction? why not let the mediator see his anger, if so?
am i missing something?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
We never even got to talk about why shared custody wasn't a good idea. XH plainly stated that he didn't want to talk about anything else and then the session ended.
I did have a list of things written down and was getting ready to present them, when XH flew off the handle and tried to control the meeting. The mediator, who is also a lawyer, tried to calm him down, but it was obvious that he had no real effect.
I did have a list of things written down and was getting ready to present them, when XH flew off the handle and tried to control the meeting. The mediator, who is also a lawyer, tried to calm him down, but it was obvious that he had no real effect.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
i'm wondering how mediation could work with an active alcoholic.
i'm all for good communication and talking things through reasonably with a third party.
however, i find myself wondering how in the world that could be possible with an alcoholic?
if they come to the meeting sober that doesn't mean that they still aren't unreasonable, covert, lying manipulator who will use either charm, lies, woe-is-me, king-of-the-world tactics to sway things into their favor.
i really can't see how any good could come out of such a meeting.
i'm all for good communication and talking things through reasonably with a third party.
however, i find myself wondering how in the world that could be possible with an alcoholic?
if they come to the meeting sober that doesn't mean that they still aren't unreasonable, covert, lying manipulator who will use either charm, lies, woe-is-me, king-of-the-world tactics to sway things into their favor.
i really can't see how any good could come out of such a meeting.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Oh I KNOW YOU! You changed your name. I'm glad..
isnt' this the guy that leaves his 12 year old son alone and goes to the bar? Why not be honest in the next meeting by stating immediatly:
Here are the real reasons I will not share custody of my infant daughter:
Alcoholism, anger issues and abandonment of his 12 year old son to go drinking.
seriously, waht do you have to lose?
isnt' this the guy that leaves his 12 year old son alone and goes to the bar? Why not be honest in the next meeting by stating immediatly:
Here are the real reasons I will not share custody of my infant daughter:
Alcoholism, anger issues and abandonment of his 12 year old son to go drinking.
seriously, waht do you have to lose?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: West Palm Beach, Fl
Posts: 142
I agree with everything suggested by all the above posts. The ball is in your court.
Let the mediator see how unresonable, controling, manipulating and angry your XH can be. Your XH will sink his own ship.
I definately agree...focus on the anger, alcoholism and abandonment issues. Who cares what your XH WISHES to discuss. Try to keep emotion out of it. Stick to the facts. You will sound more like the reasonable and sane person. Every time he storms out, yells, etc., it makes him the fool.
Good Luck....I went through the same thing with my ex.
Let the mediator see how unresonable, controling, manipulating and angry your XH can be. Your XH will sink his own ship.
I definately agree...focus on the anger, alcoholism and abandonment issues. Who cares what your XH WISHES to discuss. Try to keep emotion out of it. Stick to the facts. You will sound more like the reasonable and sane person. Every time he storms out, yells, etc., it makes him the fool.
Good Luck....I went through the same thing with my ex.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
I hope you will write everything down that you are truly concerned about and ASSERT yourself the next time and take control of the conversation. Everytime the mediator suggests something that you feel inappropriate, focus on the real issue - which is not nursing because you can pump and the mediator knows this.
For example, when the mediator asks "how about if you let your husband watch the children from 9am to 5pm?"
You should answer: "Unfortumately husband has drinking problems and I have serious concerns that my children are being neglected in his care both physically and emotionally. It's not safe for them without other adult supervision ensuring that their basic needs are met."
This is not the time to protect your husband. He is never going to get it. He is an active alcoholic. This is the time to protect your child.
For example, when the mediator asks "how about if you let your husband watch the children from 9am to 5pm?"
You should answer: "Unfortumately husband has drinking problems and I have serious concerns that my children are being neglected in his care both physically and emotionally. It's not safe for them without other adult supervision ensuring that their basic needs are met."
This is not the time to protect your husband. He is never going to get it. He is an active alcoholic. This is the time to protect your child.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Unfortunately, I don't think there will be a second mediation session. See my post "it has to happen". My XH has decided that I am a bad influence on his son and has denied me any access to him, as "punishment" for not doing what he wants. I imagine that he is expecting me to a) beg for his forgiveness so he'll come back to mediation or b) avoid him as much as possible, which he'll use against me.
transformedmyself...yep it is I, formerly "imtheidiot" and yes, I'm still writing down the crazy story of my life with this man. And yes, he does leave his 12 year old son at home to go out drinking.
honestly, I don't know what's going to happen now...I have serious doubt XH will deign coming back to mediation.
transformedmyself...yep it is I, formerly "imtheidiot" and yes, I'm still writing down the crazy story of my life with this man. And yes, he does leave his 12 year old son at home to go out drinking.
honestly, I don't know what's going to happen now...I have serious doubt XH will deign coming back to mediation.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Hey hey hey, hold the phone, let me put this into a different perspective.
This is a great outcome for mediation! We say it time and time again here that there is no reasoning with an alcholic. When the moment comes for them take responsiblity for their addiction and the consequences are felt, they fight and when it's a fight they can't win they get out and get out fast.
I know in my heart that this mediator knew exactly what he was up against with your AH and you held your own without ever pointing a finger at AH at all. You gave a logical and reasonable reason why the baby could not be with him for the time period in question. It had nothing to do with his skills or his drinking, and he still couldn't keep it together. If you had been alone with him he would have fought you to the teeth and it would have quickly turned into an argument about his drinking. But since he could see where this was all going to go, squarely back on him, and he wasn't going to wind up against the mediator and not you alone, he caved and ran.
It is obligatory for the mediator to suggest another meeting and give AH another chance to present himself calmly and rationally. I would go prepared just as you have done for today's meeting. I suspect when the consequences of his actions starts rearing its ugly head again, he'll run. The case can then go to a judge to be resolved.
I know you don't want to go through this again, but it will show you to be the one who made every effort to compromise and he made every effort to avoid the tough questions if he runs out again.
This is a good outcome in my opinion. Take a deep breath. Talk it over with your lawyer and keep moving forward. I think you did great!!!
Alice
This is a great outcome for mediation! We say it time and time again here that there is no reasoning with an alcholic. When the moment comes for them take responsiblity for their addiction and the consequences are felt, they fight and when it's a fight they can't win they get out and get out fast.
I know in my heart that this mediator knew exactly what he was up against with your AH and you held your own without ever pointing a finger at AH at all. You gave a logical and reasonable reason why the baby could not be with him for the time period in question. It had nothing to do with his skills or his drinking, and he still couldn't keep it together. If you had been alone with him he would have fought you to the teeth and it would have quickly turned into an argument about his drinking. But since he could see where this was all going to go, squarely back on him, and he wasn't going to wind up against the mediator and not you alone, he caved and ran.
It is obligatory for the mediator to suggest another meeting and give AH another chance to present himself calmly and rationally. I would go prepared just as you have done for today's meeting. I suspect when the consequences of his actions starts rearing its ugly head again, he'll run. The case can then go to a judge to be resolved.
I know you don't want to go through this again, but it will show you to be the one who made every effort to compromise and he made every effort to avoid the tough questions if he runs out again.
This is a good outcome in my opinion. Take a deep breath. Talk it over with your lawyer and keep moving forward. I think you did great!!!
Alice
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I don't know how to say this politely. So, here goes:
The mediators, lawyers....have many cases...none of them are going to attach the importance to it that you have, as it is your life. I have found that I need to really advocate for myself, because it is really important to me and I can't be a file in a whole drawer of files and appmts.
I would draft up a cover letter and attach the documentation and etc and hand deliver it to the office of the mediator, in fact, I would try to see them and hand it to them in person and tell them that you did not get the opportunity to present the facts about serious issues involving the health and welfare of your children. Thank them for their time and assistance and ask them to read your information before your next meeting. You can schedule the meeting as the mediator asks, right? And if he doesn't show up...well, he shows his colors.
In my experience, I cannot afford to be passive and leave everything to the "experts", I need to actively pursue my case also.
The mediators, lawyers....have many cases...none of them are going to attach the importance to it that you have, as it is your life. I have found that I need to really advocate for myself, because it is really important to me and I can't be a file in a whole drawer of files and appmts.
I would draft up a cover letter and attach the documentation and etc and hand deliver it to the office of the mediator, in fact, I would try to see them and hand it to them in person and tell them that you did not get the opportunity to present the facts about serious issues involving the health and welfare of your children. Thank them for their time and assistance and ask them to read your information before your next meeting. You can schedule the meeting as the mediator asks, right? And if he doesn't show up...well, he shows his colors.
In my experience, I cannot afford to be passive and leave everything to the "experts", I need to actively pursue my case also.
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