DesertEyes

In that case you might want to consider _not_ pushing your own recovery on other people, since it's clear you know they don't want what you have, and insead follow the guidelines here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html

Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery

tigger11

Laurie, I loved your post. I'm 3 weeks new, and yes it was blunt, but personally I didn't find it harsh. Post on my posts anytime! You post with truth and insight. Thank you! I also appreciate LaTeeDa's posts.

kv816

I agree with you that he DOES have a choice. He CHOOSES to go to the store and buy it. He CHOOSES to open the can and drink it. It's not like he's being held down and it's poured down his throat.

I do, however, believe it is a disease and it's the disease that convinces him he must have this drink. I see it like when your stomach growls, whether you want to eat or not you know you HAVE to in order to feel better. So you're left with two choices--eat or don't eat.

I believe that he thinks it's the only way to feel better. But I know he knows there are other options out there to deal with the things that lead him to drinking. But ultimately he chooses to drink instead of counseling or working harder or anti-depressants or so on and so forth.

heavenlyone

Doesn't having guilt mean that they would admit to what they've done wrong and say SORRY -

"I'm sorry I made you feel that way"
"I'm sorry I lied, but I couldn't help it"
"I am sorry and I feel guilt about it"

I have never once heard this from my AH in four and half years. He believes he does nothing wrong ever.

kv816

I don't know, normaeinstein. I heard xabf say how sorry he was for so many things all through our relationship. He always SAID he was sorry but I don't think he really WAS sorry. It was quacking....tell me what I want to hear to make it all okay. I know my xabf could be sorry but I don't think he ever really felt remorse.

Still Waters

I see plenty of recovery on this forum. We each come to things at a different pace and in our own way.

LaTeeDa

In answer to the original question:

1) There is no way to know what another person feels.
2) It doesn't matter anyway.

He can say he's sorry and not mean it. He can say nothing and feel an enormous amount of self-loathing. Or anything in between. There is really no way to know. I have a hard enough time trying to figure out my own feelings most of the time, let alone somebody elses.

It doesn't matter because whether or not he feels guilty, it's his stuff. Whether or not he has a choice, it's his stuff. You do not have the tiniest bit of control over his stuff. Only he does. Trying to figure out his stuff was a convenient distraction to avoid figuring out my own stuff. I was indignant when my therapist told me that. It took months before I finally realized how right on she was.

I spent years trying to figure out why my husband did the things he did. I guess somewhere in my subconscious, figuring him out was the key to controlling him. The key to getting him back on board with my plans for our life together. At the time, I didn't really realize that was what I was doing. In hindsight, it's very clear.

Facing my own stuff was difficult. At times, it was painful. But, the short-term pain that I went through in dealing with my family of origin issues, my codependency issues, my self-worth issues, was still not as painful as living in an unhappy marriage with an alcoholic. I didn't like any of the choices I had at the time, so I told myself I didn't have any. I'm am eternally grateful that I (finally) made the choice to go through the difficulty instead of continuing to try to avoid it.

L

Ago

TC actually asked that question in the alcoholism forum in this thread

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-remorse.html

whyamistaying

Here is a view of my life. This morning I told my AH that I was asking people if alcoholics felt guilt.

He said, "What did they say?" I told him some said yes and some said no.

I said, "What do you think?"

His response was: "Well, I think I need to get my hair cut still. Should I use the ATM or the Credit Card and are you going to drive me or do I have to drive my bike?"

That was it. This was at 10:00 a.m. so he couldn't have been drunk enough not to care. That was the extent of our discussion. So I ask these questions to get a glimpse in his head. But I see where that doesn't help, but somehow it does kinda help me. I like hearing from alcoholics because, well, it reminds me or shows me what's going on.

I like the pro and con idea. I did that a while back. The problem is although my pros are much smaller than the con, they are "biggies" for me to give up. I'm working on it, just not as fast as I probably should. I need to accept that they are just dreams and we probably won't be a happy family ever.
I do dream of a better life, but dreaming doesn't make it happen. I know that.

I liked the BAC comment too. That amazingly helped me. My AH's was .29 and .31 for his 2nd DUI. I don't know what it is now or how much he drinks, he just sleeps a lot and generally just lives here not really participating...and a lot of anger now from him which I didn't notice before.

Thanks everyone. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

LaTeeDa

It might be more productive to accept that you aren't a happy family now. None of us has any control over the future. The only time you can do anything with is now.

L

McGowdog

I'm sorry for your home situation. It sounds really sad and it sounds like you probably have a late stage alcoholic on your hands.

You should feel no guilt in just leaving him and letting him continue on his path to destruction. If that's the case, may you do so without guilt or judgement. If he does not see that he's killing himself and harming all in his path, you obviously cannot provide that for him.

Now I'm going to go back to my own successful experience in Alcoholics Anonymous from the alcoholic's standpoint; this is a classical example of the alky who has more hope than the lower stage alcoholic... if they could just get a head of steam going and a desire to quit drinking for good and all. It's described in the chapter To Wives (on about page 122 of the 1st Edition)when they describe the four levels of alcoholics.

If I could offer any hope, it would be to you... to find a way to be ok regardless of what he does or whether he finds sobriety or not. I believe in a program that turns families and lives around. But there are no guarantees that he will ever get and stay sober.

There again, this is a sad deal and all I can really offer is a prayer for you and your family.

heavenlyone

"His response was: "Well, I think I need to get my hair cut still. Should I use the ATM or the Credit Card and are you going to drive me or do I have to drive my bike?"

This exactly the response I would get if I asked this....or I would just get staring and saying nothing.

Apparently if he changes the subject and pretends everything is great then I will forget everything........not

tigger11

McGowdog - what book is that from?

DesertEyes

That's the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. The "Chapter to the Wives" was written in the 1930's, when all the authors had less than 3 years sobriety and al-anon was still a long way off. So you have to consider the society and the personalities involved when you read that particular chapter.

Mike

Ago

Big Book On Line

tigger11

Thank you Mike and Ago (Rawr)!

McGowdog

Pages 108 to 110 on the edition Ago gave.

tigger11

Sorry to butt in on your post Why! Currently reading the online BB voraciously.

jharris10

Of course alcoholics feel guilt! It's ranked as one of the main reasons they continue to drink. Guilt is one aspect of the psychological condition of addiction.