Why is honesty so difficult?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
If the respondents on this thread don't start addressing the O.P.'s specific support needs pretty quick, I'm going to close this.
Experience. (specific to her needs, not dogma, not right/wrong on semantic issues)
Strength.
Hope.
That's what's acceptable here, now and always.
Experience. (specific to her needs, not dogma, not right/wrong on semantic issues)
Strength.
Hope.
That's what's acceptable here, now and always.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 147
My favorite lie of hers came when I asked if she was having an affair. She told me no and got upset I dared to even ask it.
Two or three weeks later I found out she had a six month affair with my best friend. I asked her why she lied to me. She said she didn't. She had broken it off with him the week before I asked and therefore, technically, she wasn't having an affair.
Well now. That makes it different. I am sorry I accused you of it, hehe.
I have struggled as much as you with the lies. My AW tries and tries to tell me she had no choice in the matter, her disease caused her to do it. I would suggest you lay the ground rules. No lies. No matter how small. Let him know the consequences if he lies and that way the choice is up to him. He knows up front what will happen if he tells the truth and what happens if he lies. The choice is his to make and he can't blame anyone but himself if he lies.
Two or three weeks later I found out she had a six month affair with my best friend. I asked her why she lied to me. She said she didn't. She had broken it off with him the week before I asked and therefore, technically, she wasn't having an affair.
Well now. That makes it different. I am sorry I accused you of it, hehe.
I have struggled as much as you with the lies. My AW tries and tries to tell me she had no choice in the matter, her disease caused her to do it. I would suggest you lay the ground rules. No lies. No matter how small. Let him know the consequences if he lies and that way the choice is up to him. He knows up front what will happen if he tells the truth and what happens if he lies. The choice is his to make and he can't blame anyone but himself if he lies.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Originally Posted by GiveLove 
If the respondents on this thread don't start addressing the O.P.'s specific support needs pretty quick, I'm going to close this.
Experience. (specific to her needs, not dogma, not right/wrong on semantic issues)
Strength.
Hope.
That's what's acceptable here, now and always.
Experience. (specific to her needs, not dogma, not right/wrong on semantic issues)
Strength.
Hope.
That's what's acceptable here, now and always.
was trying to answer the question:
"Why is honesty so difficult" (for alcoholics)
by addressing specifically:
I feel like even though my AH is getting treatment, I can't get past all the dishonesty. Sometimes its just inconsistencies that don't add up - about things that really don't matter - so why lie about them? I notice them, and then I start wondering what is he really trying to hide.
And, the reality is that he has lied to me so frequently, that I hardly trust anything he says - I can't separate fact from fiction anymore.
Further, I strongly believe that his unwillingness to be honest with me is a sign he's also not really committed to his recovery. The funny thing is, I'm giving things until January (a timeframe that I set for myself back in August), but its the lying, rather than the relapses, that will ultimately mean the difference between my staying or going.
beg pardon
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: east siiiide
Posts: 254
Is there any point in calling the A out in his/her lies?
There have been so many times that I've had a very strong gut feeling, or I've known to some extent but can't prove it, that my AH was lying. But if confronted, not only will he not admit it, but I get accused of being a bad person for insinuating such a thing.
I've learned that unless I have cold hard proof, there is ABSOLUTELY no point in saying I know he is lying. Even then, it's often not worth the conflict, and it's almost hilarious how he will deny that the evidence is true, that it must somehow not be true, because he is not lying.
One day I saw in the browser history on our computer, that he had googled "Caughing up blood". I was concerned and went outside and asked him if he had looked that up (obviously he did, no one else uses our computer but us!), and he gave me an incredulous look and said no, I never googled any such thing. How do I respond to that? Um, well I didn't do it, and no one else uses the computer, so ... how could it not be you? And then the argument begins. "I didn't do it, so leave me alone. I don't freaking know who did, but it wasn't me." Later that day he had deleted the items from the browser history. He was still angry at me for asking the question the next day.. and I noticed he'd deleted it.
Instead of continue the tension in our house, I made the (often repeated, and knowingly self sacrificing) mistake of telling him I must have been mistaken and that I was sorry. I looked at him in amazement as this look of, you better be, came across his face, and he continued to withhold love / forgiveness / a pleasant attitude towards me for hours or until the next day, to teach me a lesson.
I don't know why it's so hard to tell the truth. I mean, I've told little lies before, to my parents to friends, to him, etc. But the extent of the lies was never anything like this. When confronted I almost always come clean at that moment had I tried to hide something. But I think you need a conscience for that.
There have been so many times that I've had a very strong gut feeling, or I've known to some extent but can't prove it, that my AH was lying. But if confronted, not only will he not admit it, but I get accused of being a bad person for insinuating such a thing.
I've learned that unless I have cold hard proof, there is ABSOLUTELY no point in saying I know he is lying. Even then, it's often not worth the conflict, and it's almost hilarious how he will deny that the evidence is true, that it must somehow not be true, because he is not lying.
One day I saw in the browser history on our computer, that he had googled "Caughing up blood". I was concerned and went outside and asked him if he had looked that up (obviously he did, no one else uses our computer but us!), and he gave me an incredulous look and said no, I never googled any such thing. How do I respond to that? Um, well I didn't do it, and no one else uses the computer, so ... how could it not be you? And then the argument begins. "I didn't do it, so leave me alone. I don't freaking know who did, but it wasn't me." Later that day he had deleted the items from the browser history. He was still angry at me for asking the question the next day.. and I noticed he'd deleted it.
Instead of continue the tension in our house, I made the (often repeated, and knowingly self sacrificing) mistake of telling him I must have been mistaken and that I was sorry. I looked at him in amazement as this look of, you better be, came across his face, and he continued to withhold love / forgiveness / a pleasant attitude towards me for hours or until the next day, to teach me a lesson.
I don't know why it's so hard to tell the truth. I mean, I've told little lies before, to my parents to friends, to him, etc. But the extent of the lies was never anything like this. When confronted I almost always come clean at that moment had I tried to hide something. But I think you need a conscience for that.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I just got tired of the never ending land of the lies he lived in...but no honoryouself, I don't think there is any point to calling them out about them...if they're still actively drinking.
It was when we were in counseling that it became a serious issue for me. How can you work on a marriage or get "therapy" if you're dealing with outright fabrications? You can't.
It was when we were in counseling that it became a serious issue for me. How can you work on a marriage or get "therapy" if you're dealing with outright fabrications? You can't.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Your so right... I don't even talk with him about it anymore... To him a dozen beer a night doesn't mean anything!!! blah blah...scream...scream... I often read posts where people are still trying to reason with their A and think that it's been years since I even bothered!!!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Calling him out on his lies is pointless. You spend all your energy trying to have a rational conversation with him about the lies, deceit and in return you get irrational behavior of more denial, lies, anger and the cycle continues.
This is how the cycle goes. You complain about his drinking, lies, anger, lies of ommission, silent treatments, etc... and this is what he hears: blah, blah, blah, blah...
When he responds to your rational comments you hear more lies, loopholes, blame shifting, etc...quack, quack, quack, quack....
Serious lack of communication going on in a relationship with an active alcoholic. You are trying to have rational conversations with an irrational person. The active alcoholic can't admit to themselves that they have lost control of their life to alcohol, therefore, they can't admit it to you or anyone else.
So what do you do? Detach.
Easy? no, but you can do it with practice and patience.
Take the computer search for instance. He is an adult and allowed to google as he chooses, right? If he is coughing up blood and wants to learn more about it, let him. It is his body, his choice. When he is ready to deal with a health concern and wants support, he will come to you and/or your family doctor. Until he is ready to share it with you, it belongs to him.
He is drinking vodka shots before he takes his antabuse? Let him. His body, his choice.
Healthy boundaries about the morning vodka will protect you and your son. You have the right to keep your son out of the car if he has had his morning shots of vodka, and you have the right not to be around him when he has had his shots of vodka.
This is how the cycle goes. You complain about his drinking, lies, anger, lies of ommission, silent treatments, etc... and this is what he hears: blah, blah, blah, blah...
When he responds to your rational comments you hear more lies, loopholes, blame shifting, etc...quack, quack, quack, quack....
Serious lack of communication going on in a relationship with an active alcoholic. You are trying to have rational conversations with an irrational person. The active alcoholic can't admit to themselves that they have lost control of their life to alcohol, therefore, they can't admit it to you or anyone else.
So what do you do? Detach.
Easy? no, but you can do it with practice and patience.
Take the computer search for instance. He is an adult and allowed to google as he chooses, right? If he is coughing up blood and wants to learn more about it, let him. It is his body, his choice. When he is ready to deal with a health concern and wants support, he will come to you and/or your family doctor. Until he is ready to share it with you, it belongs to him.
He is drinking vodka shots before he takes his antabuse? Let him. His body, his choice.
Healthy boundaries about the morning vodka will protect you and your son. You have the right to keep your son out of the car if he has had his morning shots of vodka, and you have the right not to be around him when he has had his shots of vodka.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
My XAH lies as well. One time he was involved with a woman, while married to me, and I had undeniable proof it was a physical affair. Of course he lied. But when I presented him with the proof he said, "Having sex with someone one time is not a relationship."
Ya, right.
Anyway, one thing I have been working on is trusting my gut. When I was the most sick I easily denied my own eyes, ears, and brain. I look back on that and am shocked how I became. Now, I try to be conscious of my gut instincts, conscious of the moment etc. I try not to let it bother me if he is lying....I try to focus on my life and how I want to live it. I am getting better and better at it...although don't ask me about yesterday. :horse
Ya, right.
Anyway, one thing I have been working on is trusting my gut. When I was the most sick I easily denied my own eyes, ears, and brain. I look back on that and am shocked how I became. Now, I try to be conscious of my gut instincts, conscious of the moment etc. I try not to let it bother me if he is lying....I try to focus on my life and how I want to live it. I am getting better and better at it...although don't ask me about yesterday. :horse
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Pelican
Puckett,
How are YOU today?
How are YOU today?
January is the date I picked for three reasons: (1) someone on the Alanon board that I'm a member of told me that its better to give 6 months before making any major decisions (2) financially and, organizationally, a separation is a big ordeal and I need time to plan and ready myself for that kind of step, and (3) he's going through treatment now and, I know from the materials he got in group counseling that relapse happens - so I'm looking for meaningful progress and not perfection.
But, I'm starting to recognize that its the lying that bugs me even more than the drinking. I can accept that the path to recovery includes some bumps on the road, but the lying is hard to deal with.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Pelican
Healthy boundaries about the morning vodka will protect you and your son. You have the right to keep your son out of the car if he has had his morning shots of vodka, and you have the right not to be around him when he has had his shots of vodka.
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