Jadmack25

Well I never!! Mothers milk au natural to a 1 year old is equal to dad getting sozzled.
That is rational thinking to someone in total denial.

I think we know now who the real baby is don't we?

Alanon would help you, and if you can arrange a baby sitter, or even take her with you, it may be a great benefit to you. To start with the folks there talk SENSE.

God bless

TakingCharge999

Al-Anon Family Group Online meetings. MIP Also provides Alcoholics Anonymous, Adult Children, ACOA and Child Abuse Survivors meetings and Chat! look at the orange box there is info on online Alanon meetings.

Online Al-Anon Family Group, Support Group of Family and Friends of Alcoholics. MIP 12 Step Forums also provides onlin Alcoholics Anonymous, Adult Children Anonymous and Abuse Survivors 12 Step Meetings and Chat, Webmaster: John Freifeld

If you are afraid of his reaction perhaps its better not to discuss it? I don't know... I am afraid for your safety... is talking with the bio mom an option? perhaps she is away and struggling but she is the mom anyway and perhaps, if he doesn't move Earth to get her son back with her she can at least grant you custody... gosh what a difficult situation.

I hope you can make it to the online meetings!

nodaybut2day

Pelican...right you are. He HATES it when people "tell him what to do" (it sounds like something a teenager would say, but he says it A LOT). This is why I can't discuss addiction with him...he just ends up storming out of the room, saying that he can't do anything right, or that I just don't appreciate him enough.

I was chatting yesterday with someone in the chat room, and she asked me the same question. When my husband drinks, I feel...ashamed. I feel embarassed that he *needs* something, whether cigarettes or alcohol, to get through the day or to "relax" and "unwind". It feels inherently wrong to me to rely on anything like that. I guess my family's addiction profile makes me very suspicious of anything remotely addictive. Also, he makes me angry. Boiling angry, for spending all that money and literally peeing it out. For acting like a moron when he drinks. For being unable to "deal" with life without having some alcohol in him...I'm just so very disappointed at how our lives have turned out.

You know, I used to smoke, but I stopped because I started to get addicted. I *needed* to have my noon hour cigarette and it bugged me. Similarly, I used to smoke weed, but I stopped because I couldn't seem to "have fun" without it. Hubby even complained to me about my not wanting to smoke up anymore; he said I was "more fun" and "nagged less" when I was blizzed.

As for his anger...I used to get all riled up about it and scream back at him. We had some horrible fights years ago where we both screamed our lungs out. Thank goodness there were no children around to witness it. Eventually though, I realized that we got nowhere with all the yelling and I started to shut down. I let him have his little fits, told him to go smoke on the balcony and come back when he was calmer. When he verbally assaulted me (never called me named but just cussed at me), I used to just cry. After some counselling, I started to tell him that if he kept cussing and yelling, that I'd leave. One night he did and then I left. I took the baby, got my stuff and left. I didn't go far, just to the local health and social services clinic, to talk to a social worker...but it certainly had an effect. Since then, he has stopped cussing at me; unfortunately he aims all his anger and swearing at my stepson.

Yes, I believe you are right. If it isn't alcohol, it's cigarettes (which he has promised to quit several times, and then when he failed, he blamed me, or his son, or life in general for being too stressful), or cocaine (which has stopped thankfully), or DVDs or videogames. How many thousands of dollars has he spent on his addictions over the years? It pains me to think about it.

God, what have I done to myself? What have I done to my daughter by marrying this person?

Pelican

God, what have I done to myself? What have I done to my daughter by marrying this person?

All part of the process....be gentle with yourself. First we have to see the problem before we can find the solution.

Part of any recovery process is the 3 A's"
Awareness
Acceptance
Action

You are becoming aware of the problems in your relationship. By recognizing how you feel about his addictive behaviors, you are stepping out of denial and becoming aware of your reality. Alcoholism is present in your home.

Next, you find acceptance. The 3 C's:
You didn't cause the addiction
You can't control the addiction
You won't cure the addiction
You accept that you are powerless over alcoholism and your life has become unmanageable. Your spouse is being controlled by alcohol. You can not change him. He has to change himself. Accepting that you are only responsible for your side of the street and protecting your daughter.

What can you control? Yourself. This is step 3 - Action. Action takes many forms: Alanon, counseling, self-help groups and books, legal advice, etc...Since you can't change him (you're not that powerful), what changes can you make to find peace?

All you do to take care of yourself and your daughter? The other adult in the relationship must take care of himself.

nodaybut2day

Pelican...regarding taking action...does this mean just "doing my own thing" and ignoring him while he continues to self-destruct? Should I just NOT talk to him about his drinking and go to meetings, read the literature and just stay there with him?

I don't know why, but I keep having this nagging feeling that I don't belong here, that I'm not REALLY the spouse of an alcoholic, that I'm just pretending or lying somehow...that I'm not legitimate in my feelings. Sometimes my husband makes me feel that way...as in "you have no right to complain because I do x, y, z for you. I moved to a new city FOR YOU, left my friends behind FOR YOU, moved to a place I hate FOR YOU, so you'd better be appreciative and get over my tiny amount of drinking"...

The feeling reminds me of what I felt when I talked about being raped as a teenager. It wasn't sexual intercourse. There was no screaming and beating my fists against a stranger in some dark alleyway. It was just "wrong touching" by my physiotherapist, who stroked me while treating my paralyzed back. So when I talked to other rape survivors, I felt like a pretender because I hadn't been "raped". Everything that happens in my life is so...small and minute, but the feelings are still there and just as frustrating because I feel as though they're not legit.

Chrysalis123

Yes, it could mean this. Actually sounds like a wise thing to do for now. Educating yourself about alcoholism isn't doing nothing you know. Has your talking changed anything anyway?

Have you considered the thought that he is emotionally abusing you? It sure appears that way to me as an outsider reading your posts from his behavior to your reaction to his behavior.

I was so hard on myself for the 18 years of my marriage. I knew something was wrong but not what and so I did the most logical thing at the time which was to blame myself. I thought "if only I did __________ things would be better." I believed him that I was too sensitive, I was too lazy, I was a party pooper, I was no fun, and I better not tell him what to do.....

Funny thing, I was getting sicker and sicker by being around him. Once I started to read and educate myself I recognized myself in the words of books, Alanon and my therapist.

Here are some books I found helpful:

Women Who Love too Much

Codependent No More

Why Does He Do That?

Getting Then Sober (exceprts from this are on the internet)

How Alanon Works

I am glad you found us. I think you do belong here and I don't think for a minute that what you are going through is not real or not enough suffering.

intheknow

Went to the library today and checked out Codpendant No More and Beyond Codependency...and see myself on every stinking page! And I am so glad I am reading this book!

Thanks to all of you who recommended these great books, they really do make a huge difference. I already feel myself getting stronger and feeling better.

Take care of yourself, Imtheidiot. You are strong, You can do this.

Pelican

It's a process. You did not arrive in this situation overnight, you won't resolve it overnight. It will take time and energy. You will need support and that is what we are here for.

Your question about should you just ignore his behavior and carry on? Short answer is yes. Your talking to him about his drinking has not changed anything. He switched from Jack to beer, but to the body of an alcoholic it is the same.

Here and in Alanon you can learn about setting healthy boundaries for yourself. Boundaries are imaginary fences you put up to protect yourself from unacceptable behavior. You decide what you are willing to accept, and when unacceptable behavior occurs, you take action. I had a boundary with my X that I did not want to be intimate with him when he had been drinking more than a few beers. He found the loophole. Hid his drinking and only had one beer when he got home. Why was he staggering, tho? Then I had to change the boundary to No intimacy after any drinking. Well our sex life dried right up, because his stress levels that needed pacifying with lots of beer conflicted with our pre-arranged date nights. Warning: with active alcoholism the alcoholic will look for a loop hole.


You are legit. You are bonafied! You are the spouse of someone who is likely an alcoholic. You belong. You are showing signs of self-doubt. I suffered from tremendous self-doubt after living with an alcoholic. I couldn't decide what to do next, because I might make the wrong decision. My X thought it was cute to nick name me "Eve", you know the woman that lead the man astray. So I was doubting myself just a bit after 14 years of marriage. I learned through Alanon that I can make healthy, positive decisions for myself! I make terrific decisions! I still make mistakes, but I learn a lot of lessons from my mistakes.

When I finally accepted that my alcoholic loved alcohol more than his family, I took a big step to end the cycle of chaos. I got tired of trying to establish, and re-establish boundaries. I also lived in fear of the next drunken outburst of anger. I also feared financial and legal fall-out because he continued to drive drunk. (A drinker never thinks he has had too much to drink). I filed for divorce, got a promotion and transfer - packed up my children and moved 100 miles away.

We're here to support you as you try to find your way through this journey. We support you as you begin to take care of yourself, love yourself and respect yourself. We care about you!

nodaybut2day

Wow Pelican...that was an awesome response. I'm all misty eyed from reading it. The funny thing is, things seem ok right now. Like when you go to the doctor for some illness and suddenly, all symptoms vanish, if only temporarily...just to make you seem more insane...

Right now, hubby is sleeping in bed beside me, after only having the 1 beer left in the house. This afternoon, he texted his son to ask him to ask me to buy him beer on my way back from work. I responded something vague like "I don't know if I have enough money". I knew I did but thought about something someone told me in a chat room today and decided I would not be buying any beer for hubby. I opened my wallet, took a 20$ out and looked my stepson straight in the eye and said "I don't have enough for beer,...get my drift?". He nodded, very seriously, and texted his father back.

I'd rather not involve my stepson at this point, but his father kind of already had by asking him to ask me for beer, because he'd "had a hard day".

Anyhow...not buying hubby beer felt like a strange victory to me. Small and rather private since I didn't share the reason of my refusal with my husband. When asked I told him that I too was broke. It won't work forever though, because he knows I make more than him and he's always hitting me up for cash here and there. But, at least, for tonight, I'm not giving him beer.

I guess that's something.

Trying2Fly

It sounds like his drinking--whether or not he is a full-blown alcoholic--is bothering you, and that is reason in itself to be here. You will find lots of people who share the same questions and stories as you. Keep posting, and stay strong.

Hugs!

Daisy30

Ah yes, the "lull" this is what kept me in the cycle for so long. Things would be fine for a while (I would think, things are ok. I can do this) and then his drinking would take center stage again. Chaos would be stirred up once again.....and just when I had enough, I was one foot out the door.....in came the "lull" and I would stay. Surely things would be better this time. They never were. We have been seperated for 9 months.

WooHoo! WAY TO GO! Let's call this your first boundary. Stick too it! You will feel so much better not contributing to his disease!

covington

Ii am soo tired I'm kind of zonked out, so sorry if I sound out of it. I'm also YAAAAYYY happy you're not buying him booze. I finally hit that point about 9 months ago myself.

I'm glad your son gets that you're not on board with it either.

Just to go way back to what I said earlier, I wanted to say yeah, I know why you'd want to not start start conversations where you hit denial and excuses, and oh my yes, strange topics the alcoholic will bring up that are total red herrings. Like breast feeding being an issue. For me, last week, he started getting worked up about the way I walked diagionally through Central Park last NOVEMBER, and had never brought this up as a problem before . . . and he was so outraged because it was so UNSAFE, it was so wierd, and so, freakisly illogical.

But yay for you for figuring out steps to take to reach your goals, and no, there's no reason on earth you should have to buy him beer.

Thanks for keeping us updated!

Jadmack25

First boundary is the hardest, now comes sticking to it in the face of a full frontal assault.

It won't be easy or pleasant for you, but then what IS easy or pleasant about living in the cyclone of alcoholism?

God bless

Thumper

It was a good response. I got a lot out of it too.

I know exactly what you mean by this. Just yesterday I told someone that it is soooo hard when he is acting normally. I want him to be 'normal' like that all the time. That is the person I love and that is the person I chose to be the father of my children and that is the person I wanted to spend my evenings and my old age with and make my dreams happen with. It took everything I had to not cancel the whole devastating mess and hug him and say "I want this." That just isn't reality though. That is not accepting who he is. He isn't that 2 hour window. He is a complete person. Those moments create so much doubt and sadness but it is nothing but denial to block out the larger reality. And you know what - I'm sure he'd had 6+ beers by that time. It is more then denial. Blocking out the larger reality to focus on brief glimpses of normal is what creates the insanity to begin with.

Thinking of you right now. It is such a painful place to be.

nodaybut2day

Minor update:
I attended an online al-anon meeting last night and this morning. Both were helpful. So are the nice people in the chat rooms.

Last night, after having had his single beer, my husband started drinking Cokacola in a glass, with ice cubes, as if there was JD in it, but there wasn't. It's so strange. Even when he's not drinking alcohol, he needs to be drinking *something*.

Anyhow, around 8ish, he goes to bed. Around 8:30, he asks me to come lay down with him. I eventually do. When he tries to fall asleep, he sounds restless, sighing and twitching a lot. He turns around to me, while I'm chatting online, and asks that I stay in bed with him until he falls asleep (I sleep in my daughter's bedroom now because he snores). This is an unusual request. He used to make it of me when we first got together. Used to have a lot of anxiety about me falling asleep before him, and used to get mad at me if I dared fall asleep while he was awake. He'd say I was leaving him alone...

Anyhow, I stayed in bed until I heard him snore, and quietly crept out of the bedroom. A minute later, he screamed my name and called me back. He was panicked and asked why I had "left him". I put him back to bed, gave him a hug, told him he was alright and went to sleep in the other room. About 15 minutes later, I'd finished nursing my daughter again and I hear him come out of the bedroom, go to the bathroom and have bad diarrhea. Then I hear him take some pills and go to the living room, for god knows how long. He comes back towards his room and instead opens the door to the room baby and I are sleeping in. He then asks me to come lie next to him again, until he is able to fall asleep. It must have taken a good half hour for him to STOP getting up and out of bed, all jittery and freaked out. I finally told him "you don't need to drink to calm down. You need to learn how to calm down by yourself".

He finally did go to sleep and a few hours later, when my daughter woke up crying, I left him in the bed alone.

So is this episode a symptom of something? Is this all in his head? My little "victory" seems rather overshadowed by what happened last night...

Pelican

"you don't need to drink to calm down. You need to learn how to calm down by yourself".

Good for you! That is great advice. Just hope he heard you.

Any idea what pills he took? Some alcoholics will try to cut back on alcohol and replace the need to numb with another drug. Sometimes pot or pills.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and I HAD to keep a non-alcoholic beverage in my hand (or within reach) at all times. Of course I was living with an active alcoholic and alcohol was all over the house, but it is recommended for anyone beginning sobriety. Helps with the habit of always having had an alcoholic beverage within reach.

Wow! Your night is sorta like a nightmare for me. I LOVE my 7 hours of sleep. Love it, love it! When do you sleep? I nursed 3 children (sober) and did the wake ups for nursing, but not for another adult unless they are very sick. Is this normal in your home or is it just because he didn't have enough alcohol to pass out and sleep last night?

If it was his first sober night and he couldn't fall asleep, why is that your problem? Why do you have to be sleep deprived because his sleep pattern is disrupted? That seems disrespectful of your needs.

Congratulations on standing up for yourself and not funding his alcohol consumption. Keep on keeping on!

nodaybut2day

I think he just took Tylenol with codeine. He *might* have gone to take sleeping pills though. There was a time where he took almost 5 of those a night, to get to sleep. He said it was because my "infidelity" was keeping him awake. Later, his father died and he nearly ODed on them. We had weaned him off them two years ago, but recently, I found an empty package in his shoulder bag.

We used to ALL sleep in the same bedroom: baby in the crib, sidecarred to the bed, and me and hubby in the bed. When we moved into this new 3 bedroom place, I had baby on a single mattress on the floor next to the big bed, but eventually moved her into her own little bedroom. I tried to sleep with hubby again but he snores too loud. So I opted to plop a single mattress down on the floor next to baby's double futon, also on the floor.

I generally go to bed around 9ish. Baby wakes up to 5 times a night to nurse, or to fuss. Hubby NEVER wakes to help me. Generally, I don't "help" him fall asleep. He does that on his own, which is why last night was such a surprise to me. He hasn't asked me to stay near him in a few years.

It was overall completely exhausting, because baby is also sick and was up crying around 4 a.m. It was like playing musical beds. So, with regards to my "needs", hubby doesn't care. He used to, but now, he has to WORK (god forbid) and if he doesn't get his 6-7 hours of continuous sleep, he won't be able to function!!!! hehe I really like that smiley. It's very much like my hubby. Nevermind that I haven't slept a full night's sleep in...a year and a half, not since I was 8 months pregnant.

Thank you It felt...cautiously good, and yet, I'm afraid of when he'll ask me point blank to get him beer, when he KNOWS I've got money. I know I'll have trouble saying no to him then.

Jadmack25

Keep on posting, and reading and praying.
Practice what you want to say and keep at it until it is easy to say. No is the hardest word for me, but oh, I am learning so many ways to say it.

Can you open a secret bank account and put money away there? Also cut how much cash youhave in your purse.

What law says that as you earn more than he does, you are obliged to hand over your hard earned to pay for him to p*ss it away?

Please start worrying about YOU and YOUR lack of sleep, even just due to baby. The last thing you need is a grown man using you as a dummy, (pacifier) for him to get to sleep. You could easily make yourself ill, running after everyone else, working and no sleep so put YOU on top of your Care List.

God bless

Pelican

I hope last night was a better night for sleep.

nodaybut2day

Sadly, it wasn't but not at all due to hubby. Baby is ill and needed some babyvicks rubbed on her chest.

Jadmack...I already have a bank account that I put my savings into and hubby doesn't have access to it. I *used* to give him access to my bank accounts and my ATM card, since he didn't have one of his own, but that's over with now. We only have a joint account together for sharing money. My pay stubs remain at work, in a locked cabinet only I have keys to. My pays are directly deposited into an account he doesn't have access to.

I think that I'm going to have to start being very "broke" soon, and stash money away. It's difficult because he keeps spending on things for the home and insists that I owe him for half, since we should be splitting things down the middle.

As for the cash he spends on booze...the way he figures it,we both contribute to household expenses based on how much we each make, and the money we each have left over is ours to spend on whatever we want. He spends on booze, DVDs, videogames, outings, and my left overs go to repaying debts I incurred while with him, along with student loans. He categorically refuses to help me pay off my debts and completely ignores his own.