Hopeful Still

Hello. New to this particular forum but not Sober Recovery. Husband was in rehab once then took suboxone for addiction to Vicodin. With the vikes, he drank excessively. He decided he wasn't an "alcoholic" but a drug addict, so he has continued to drink. Normally, 3-4 beers per day every day without fail. Lost job a month ago. Unemployed, waiting for unemployment to come through, still drinking, but now a 6-pack per day while I'm struggling with finances to make sure we can pay bills on my salary, a loan from my parents, and take care of our kids.

Well, I finally confronted him about resentment I have about a 6-pack per day while we're struggling. The next day, he showed me a picture in his phone of a house we were looking at renting, and I saw right next to it a pic of my driver's license that had my signature on it. When asked why, he said, "I don't know."

The more I thought about it, I realized it was probably so he could forge my signature on an insurance check 2 months ago or so for a car accident he was in. He said the check was sent by mistake and he would send it back to the insurance company. I took him at his word.

Confronted him about this, and he said he took it so he could look at my picture to keep from running his car into a wall. The more I thought about it, why not just take a photo from in the house somewhere? Right? Well, we had it out again. I told him why I thought he really took a pic of my license. He brought up that there was no trust in our marriage. No duh.

The next day, I found an empty beer bottle under the bathroom sink. Asked why, "Probably because it was too early to drink." The next day, my son and I came home from an errand at 9:30 and he had rushed upstairs when he heard the garage open. Shortly after when I emptied in the trash upstairs bathroom, there was another empty beer bottle he had just slammed at 9:30 in the morning.

This is obviously not the first time this stuff has happened. I left once. Came back when we decided to work things out. Shortly thereafter is when he started the vikes again and took suboxone. I know it's not up to me to tell him, but I said, "It's a problem if you're drinking at 9:30 in the morning and hiding it." This isn't acceptable to me. Do you want the kids to think it's okay to drink at 9:30 in the morning??? He said no, but he said he will do what he wants. I said at least don't hide it ... don't play me for a fool. He said he would work on it, that's it's only because he is out of work and feeling bad. I told him not the answer ... for me, anyways.

I am really tired of this. My kids are 11 and 14. The separation before was so hard on them. I don't want to make them go through that again. If we split up this time, it's for good. I have decided to wait until he gets a job, see how his behavior goes, and take it from there. He claims once he starts working again he will let me see his paystubs. NOte prior to this, have been back for about 2 years now after the break-up and everything is a big secret. He transfers money to the joint account for bills, groceries, etc. I haven't seen a paystub since I've been back. I told him I wouldn't accept this any longer, either.

Need some words of encouragement. Would really appreciate it!

Pelican

Welcome back to SR

I'm sorry you are back and posting that things are not sunshine and roses at your house. It sounds like your AH is quacking and giving you excuses for unacceptable behavior.

It appears you are trying your best to control his behavior. You want him to stop drinking and drugging. You want him to be responsible. You want him to be open and honest about his finances. You are going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread. You cannot get resonable, responsible behavior from an addict.

Isn't it magical thinking to believe that if you could control all the finances, then he wouldn't have access to alcohol and drugs? I found out the hard way that an addict will do whatever they need to in order to keep themselves supplied with funds and drug of choice.

I found out later that my active alcoholic was forging my name to convenience checks from my credit card companies. Giving himself a monthly paycheck to live off of. After I put a stop to that, I still stayed. I thought we needed to work on this together for the childrens sake (11 and 15) at the time. So I practiced strict control of our household funds. I got a job after staying home 12 years, and opened seperate accounts. Closed joint accounts and tried to work on our relationship.

My active alcoholic wasn't done yet. He opened a P.O box and took out credit cards in his name. These were high interest credit cards. He used them like ATM cards and took out cash to support his needs.

I finally reached my bottom. My sanity and the sanity of my children was more important than trying to make the marriage successful. I had to realize that I was not setting the example I wanted my children to mimic in their adult lives by staying and putting up with unacceptable behavior.

I found my serenity when I accepted responsibility for my life and stopped trying to control his. I was only responsible for controlling my life. As the sane parent, I was also responsible for providing a healthy environment for my children.

I walked. I walked away from the marriage. I walked away from the crazy train. I also walked away from my inheritance money that was the deposit on the house (titled in his name only).

I'm better off as a single parent, working on myself, working for myself and sleeping soundly by myself.

Hopeful Still

Wow is all I can say. I think I am definitely reaching my bottom. Thanks, Pelican. I am waiting until he gets a job and see where he ends up. He may have to relocate. We talked earlier that it would be best for him to go at first to make sure it is a good job, etc. etc. before moving the family. I'm hoping he gets the job out of state. Once he is working, then I can work on getting child support, etc. Are your kids okay? How did they fare through the divorce? The first time I left, it was my doing and they were PISSED at me. I would prefer if he were the one to leave so they can place the blame on him rather than me this time. Not sure that will happen, though.

Thanks again, Pelican.

Bernadette

Hi Hopefulstill!
I am waiting until he gets a job and see where he ends up. He may have to relocate.

It sounds like you are making your future dependent on his behavior. I know that whenever I have an expectation of the alcoholic I am setting myself up for disappointment at best, misery or financial trouble at worst!

I would prefer if he were the one to leave so they can place the blame on him rather than me this time.

Maybe move away from the whole concept of blame and just think about responsibility. Why can't you look your children in the eye and say I am responsible for the health and well-being of you guys and I am making a responsible decision to NOT live with alcoholic insanity in our lives. You may be mad at me, you have a right to your feelings, but I know I am doing the right thing because there is NO scenario of a healthy family where the father/husband drinks at 9:30 in the morning or is cagey about money or says out of one side of his mouth "I know it is a bad example for my children if I drink and hide my drinking at 9:30 in the morning..." followed out of the other side of his mouth by, "I can do what I want." That's not healthy. Plain and simple.

Make a plan for you- what's your ideal life look like-- no not the fantasy where he is a different person than he is (I had to learn to accept people for who they are right now, today!) but the reality where he is just the way he is today and will be the same (or worse) tomorrow and so what do you want YOUR life to look like?

If you think you're doing the right thing by keeping your kids in an alcoholic house - pop over to the Adult Children of Alc. forum here - or PM me anytime for some tidbits of my childhood with an alcoholic father and codependent mother! Are you speaking to the children openly about Dad's alcoholism? That's a good help. Have you thought of going to AlAnon yourself and maybe suggest AlAteen to your kids? AlAnon REALLY turned my head around!

peace-
b

Pelican

Hmmmm, I'm wondering why your kids were pissed at you? Were you covering up for your husband and hiding the truth from them?


I told my children the truth. I had stopped trying to control the active alcoholic and was letting him do what he was going to do anyway. However, I had certain boundaries. Don't go out and get drunk, then drive home. Stay with your drunk friends. Don't drink and drive, call a cab. Don't come home drunk period. Don't get drunk at our house.

When I left my husband earlier this year, I went to a hotel with 3 kids (my oldest has had her own job and place in Fla since she was 19, now 21) the oldest was here visiting.
Here's the story:

One day, we (2 younger children and myself) were out of town and came home around midnight. AH ended up getting that day off from work. He said he would do chores around the house. Earlier in the day I had called him to chat. I asked what he was doing because he kept going silent. He said he was walking our dog. I asked him what ___ was doing (oldest child). ___? where's _____?

I informed him that ___ was at our house waiting for myself and other siblings to return home from our travels. Where the hell was he? He was at a bar on one of the islands. I didn't comment. Just gave him an estimate of what time we would be home. He was all happy and said he would see us later.

I came home to a drunk who was vomitting all over the bathroom. That means he drove his drunk self home. There were empty bottles and unopened bottles in the vehicle.

We stayed there that night, but left the next day. I told the children the truth. They knew that things were not sunshine and roses at our house anyway. Turns out they were waiting on me to wake-up.

After a few days in a hotel, I contacted him and asked him to find another place to stay (temporarily) so that we could stay at the house and take care of the critters and have our own rooms. He agreed.

While we were gone, he must have forgotten to let the dog out. (That may be why he agreed to let us back into the house, which was in his name.) The smell was awful! There were still signs of vomit in the bathroom, too.

He figured I was having one of my fits, I would get over myself, I would get lonely, I would call him up and lay down the "next set of rules", and he would come home to his bed, his meals prepared, his laundry done and life would return to normal. So he continued to party and have a grand time. Only difference was, my eyes were opened and I was attending Al Anon!

After a few weeks of seperation, maybe a month, I learned from a friend that indeed that was his attitude. He was waiting for me to get over myself and call him so we could get back to 'normal'. I'm typing through this like it was just something that happened, but this part right here was the part that broke me. This hurt. Alcohol meant more to him than our marriage, our children, our finances, our life.

After I recovered from the shock, my sister asked me if the kids thought this was just a phase I was going through. So I asked them. I had a conversation with my children about my idea of what was going on and about his idea of what was going on. I asked them if they thought this was just a phase I was going through and that it was just a matter of time before things went back to normal?
Without hesitation, my 13 yo daughter said: "If this is just a phase, and things go back to the way they were, I am kicking your A$$"
I almost spewed my food all over the table laughing! I told her I appreciated her honesty and asked my 16 yo son if he would like to comment.
He said: "Mom, I thought that you were doing this because you were trying to make healthier decisions for you and us. If this is just a phase, and things go back to the way they were, then collectively, we will have to kick your A$$"
I love my children! That is the kind of honesty I want in all my relationships!

I would have taken them away kicking and screaming if they didn't agree with me. I am the saner adult in the relationship, and this is what I believe is the healthiest thing for us. My children know that I have made mistakes, I may make future mistakes, but I am doing the best I know how to do, One Day At A Time.

Learn2Live

So familiar to me.

Also, that is so great that you talked to them honestly about what had been going on. I know that will be helpful to them when they are adults. I was grateful to my Mom for doing the same thing.

worthyoflove

Your husband is a man, not a child. He is sick, but he should still be treated with respect. You are accountable to HP how you treat others and it has nothing to do with what anyone else does TO you. If you should leave or end the marriage, you will know that your side of the street was clean and will not carry guilt for how you treated him. Your actions should not revolve around what he is going to do or not going to do. YOU decide what kind of day you are going to have, regardless, of what anyone says or does. You're revolving your life around your husband. What would you do if he wasn't there? What kind of day do you want to have? What do you want your life to look like? Keep the focus on you; your behavior, your thoughts, your attitudes. Detachment will get easier and that inner happiness will get stronger.

TakingCharge999

HS hi, thanks for your trust,

We know people by their actions. Sooner or later your kids will realize who was really there for them and who wasn't. It will become obvious.

My parents divorced when I was 3 and I carried some resentments, but now as a grown up I can see and thank my mom for all she did for me. I am sure your kids will come to the same realizations.

Perhaps some therapy or counseling for you and your kids would be helpful?

Hopeful Still

No. Told my kids everything. I wouldn't accept drugs/alcohol. Like a fool, I believed him (based on what I saw ... he is a good actor) that he had turned himself around and wanted to give it another chance. Kids missed their dad. We were in Ohio as a family, and when I left he ENCOURAGED me to go back home to Michigan to be near my parents/his parents. He, too, thought I would just "get over it" and come running back, I think.

So, they were upset not having their dad close by. No matter that he was drinking, etc.
We lived with my parents at that time. Came back to Ohio. It's been almost 2 years. Good times and bad times, but mostly a rollercoaster.

He JUST dropped a bomb on me that in trying to be "honest and forthright" as I asked him to be, he had some issues with the bank. Took cash advance on his paycheck and owes $500. Took cash advance on credit card to pay that as well as enough to cover his car payment) which he already told me had enough to cover .. no worries). He expected me to say I would co-sign on a NEW credit card to pay off the one he took the advance on at 25% interest!. I said he would have to try to get the card in his own name. The other card and bank account were in just his name.

I am furious! Am waiting to make a plan to get the hell out of this situation once he gets a job. Don't know if I should stay in Ohio, move back to MIchigan??? He has a possible job in Philly, so if he moves for that I will maybe go back home? But in your opinion, better to keep kids in their comfort zone, school, friends?

Need your wise advice! I cannot accept this any longer. It's just the same old stiff, different day. Help!

Freedom1990

There is no doubt that separation is hard on kids. What is more difficult, and damaging in my opinion, is kids being forced to live with active alcoholism in their own home.

Kids have no voice. They are just along for the ride.

It's not uncommon for kids to be angry at the non-alcoholic parent.

We are there as their parent, not as their best friend, and sometimes the best decision for all involved is the most difficult.

sailorjohn

Welcome!!!

If you're tired of riding the rollercoaster, get off the train the next time it stops at the station.

And the next time the carnival barker yells at you about what a fun ride it is, just say 'no thanks'.

Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.

TakingCharge999

HS I am no counselor or anything, not even married.. but why do you have to wait for him to get a job?

Take a breathe...

Forget about him for a moment

Where would YOU rather live? where do you have the most support? would you stay where you are if you were no longer with this man?

ItsmeAlice

I discovered with my XABF that whenever I had an expectation I declared to him, he would find the loophole.

You can't be around me while you are drinking, I'd say, so he started drinking outside, getting good and drunk then come in the house for a fight.

We cannot afford you taking $60 a day out of the account for beer and cigarettes, I'd say, so he started taking $400 a week out of the account. Close enough right?

Once, I told him you can't be drunk every day after work, and he quit his job.

There's always a loophole and I should have realized sooner that if he spends hours drinking his beer and sitting a stewing over things, he would certainly have the time and ability come up with a loophole to every argument I made.

After seeking recovery I learned that the only action that matters is mine. My actions cannot be based on any action by him or nothing would ever happen the way I wanted it to. He will always choose the action that suits his desire to drink best and puts any rule I've laid forth right in the trash.

The idea of waiting until he gets a job is like waiting for the moon to turn in a pineapple. He has obviously found other means of getting money for his booze, fraudulently or not. He has figured out that taking a job will cut into his 9:30 am drunk time. He will also quickly figure out that taking a job out of state will take him out of his comfort zone and does not guarantee that you will be following behind him to manage his life for him.

Where's the loophole in this rule to get him what he wants? Stay far away from any job. That solves all his problems but certainly not yours.

I also can't see what waiting for him to get a job will do for your health and sanity. Can you see that perhaps it will only provide him the funds and the chance for some space from your nagging about his drinking so he can really cut loose? Do you think there's a chance he will have a whole slew of excuses for not sending money back to you once he is away and working?

The only person whose actions you can be entirely certain of are yours.

What do you need to get through today? How can you provide that for yourself rather than hope he provides it?

Keep posting!!

Alice

Pelican

In my case...
The day I made an appointment with my lawyer to sign the petition for a divorce, was the same day I was offered a promotion with my career. The promotion was 100 miles away. I kept my legal appointment, signed the papers, interviewed for the promotion and accepted the job.

The day I moved my children and myself to our new community was also the day my divorce was final.

brundle

Your husband needs to be held to adult accountability. For every excuse you make today will be a day you wont leave tomorrow. I know I live in that land. You end up stuck with an invisible cord tied to you, it becomes later.

The problems never get smaller. The bottle count just keeps getting higher; and each one is full of empty...dreams, promises, plans, youth...ect... and it wont be just yours. It will be your kids too.

GiveLove

I waited to make a plan until my X found a job.
Then I waited to make a plan to see if he would drink again.
Then I waited to make a plan because he said he was trying so hard, and where was my compassion?
Then I waited to make a plan until he got a job to replace the one that he'd lost already.
Then I waited to make a plan until he had the money to move out.
Then I waited to make a plan until he paid me back the money he owed me.

All of this took six years.

You don't have to act now. But at least make a plan now. Talk to your kids about real-life possibilities. Talk to an attorney. Know your options. Take it seriously.

This isn't going to end until YOU say it ends, and procrastinating isn't doing your kids any favors. It's only helping to imprint further on them what kind of adults they should grow up to be: lying, self-pitying, alcoholic males; angry, abuse-tolerant females.

Glad you're done with this. When you feel strong enough, take the next step to freedom from it.

Hopeful Still

Well, after a long night of tossing and turning, I am still left with a rock in the pit of my stomach. I can't do this any longer. It breaks my heart to hear what many of you have to say ... that my trying to make things work for my kids has in the end hurt them. That makes me sick. Last night, my husband and I talked or a while, or HE talked, to be more precise. He begged me to stay. This will be different. I will make you proud of me. I will give you complete control of the money. We will be better off than before with you in charge of the finances. I am sorry I hurt you. Yada yada yada. I said I'm out of time and he is out of chances. He asked that I think about it for a couple of days. I said fine. The more I think, the more resolute I am that this has to happen. I have to leave and start fresh, for my sanity as well as my kids' well-being.

I can't even begin to say thank you enough to all of you for your posts. Some of them made me angry, some just made me sad. I know what I have to do. By the way, when he asked me what I want to do last night when we talked, I said we need to live apart. Where, he asked? Here .. the kids and I will get a place, you can get a place. He threatened me, said that I won't take his kids away again. I said I wasn't taking them anywhere. Later on in the conversation, he said he was sorry for saying that. He was angry. Didn't mean it. He knows that he couldn't do what I do as far as taking care of them. I guess if he had any hope of convincing me to stay, he killed it when he threatened to take my kids. I am done with this.

Thank you all so much from the bottom of my heart.

Learn2Live

Hi Hopeful. I am sorry you are going through this but I am also glad that you have gotten to where you are right now. One thing I have learned in my life that might be helpful to you, is that it's really hard to work up the nerve to do what you know in your heart you gotta' do. But once you start moving forward with this decision, you will gain momentum and you will feel the momentum in you.

Take immediate action in response to this decision. And don't stop; keep going; tell yourself every morning that you have made this decision and are going to stick with this decision, no matter how bad it feels. And plan each morning what you are going to do to move forward. It doesn't matter if what you do each day is a small thing (like pack up a vase) or a big thing (like sign an apartment lease). Every action builds momentum.

Hope this is helpful to you. Thanks for sharing.

Pelican

Keep on keeping on!

You can take care of yourself and your children. You do not need his approval.

His quacking (you can't take my kids away, sorry for the upteenth time) may get louder, harsher and more manipulative the stronger and healthier you become. Just picture the big Aflac duck, quacking, quacking....

Hopeful Still

Just updating you all that I am doing okay. I have a definite plan in place, and I feel good about it. I am in control now ... not him. I no longer choose to accept the way things have been for the past several years. I am going to assure my own happiness from this point forward ... whatever it takes. Thanks so much for the wonderful support. You rock!