Couples Counseling and Recovery
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
I think I have gotten past most of my, I am not loveable stuff.... but not all of it.
As I have turned the FEAR over a few times, I think it is more of a fear of "being played."
In hindsight, her downward spiral really began about 18 months ago. I took me about 12 months to figure out that she really had a problem and then another 2 months to finally get to the point of forcing her to leave.
My AGF is among other things, VERY smart. She did an incredible job of keeping me off-base, distracted, and deceived. She was very adept at manipulating me. The quanity of the lies and deceipt during this period is mind-boggling. She had no problem pulling out all the stops to make sure I did not become aware of her issue and when I became aware, of trying to get me to go back to the status quo. In short, I was played. I was both her safety net and her ATM.
Yes, my codependency played a role, but she exploited it brilliantly. And now, in rehab, I am her sole means of support. I am paying for treatment and caring for her kids.
My fear is that all I am today is still her safety net and her ATM.
The truly crazy thing is that I am setting myself up to believe what she says in response to my question.
So, my fear is that I am being played right now
As I have turned the FEAR over a few times, I think it is more of a fear of "being played."
In hindsight, her downward spiral really began about 18 months ago. I took me about 12 months to figure out that she really had a problem and then another 2 months to finally get to the point of forcing her to leave.
My AGF is among other things, VERY smart. She did an incredible job of keeping me off-base, distracted, and deceived. She was very adept at manipulating me. The quanity of the lies and deceipt during this period is mind-boggling. She had no problem pulling out all the stops to make sure I did not become aware of her issue and when I became aware, of trying to get me to go back to the status quo. In short, I was played. I was both her safety net and her ATM.
Yes, my codependency played a role, but she exploited it brilliantly. And now, in rehab, I am her sole means of support. I am paying for treatment and caring for her kids.
My fear is that all I am today is still her safety net and her ATM.
The truly crazy thing is that I am setting myself up to believe what she says in response to my question.
So, my fear is that I am being played right now
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
TrainWreck,
I share your fears that this is the role she has placed you in, and I wish you the courage and wisdom to extricate yourself from it in a way you can live with.
It may require you to rethink absolute thoughts like "other family members are not in a position to care for (the children)." If something were to happen to you, do you think that would still hold true? Would they be allowed to starve in the house, or would someone "not in a position to care for them" suddenly find it in themselves to do so?
Regardless of her other good traits, the thought that she would put her own children, and you, in this position rankles me, because you seem like a very good human being. But her? Hm. Not a person I would want in my life, truly -- because of "staying true to my values."
But I imagine as long as you keep agreeing to fund her choices, she will have no reason to change. She is, as you say, very smart, and knows how to do this gamesmanship very well evidently.
It is very tough --- but I hope you will begin to treat yourself with this degree of loyalty and care some day soon.
p.s. brian, I do the rubber band trick too sometimes...it works for me, weird as it sounds
I share your fears that this is the role she has placed you in, and I wish you the courage and wisdom to extricate yourself from it in a way you can live with.
It may require you to rethink absolute thoughts like "other family members are not in a position to care for (the children)." If something were to happen to you, do you think that would still hold true? Would they be allowed to starve in the house, or would someone "not in a position to care for them" suddenly find it in themselves to do so?
Regardless of her other good traits, the thought that she would put her own children, and you, in this position rankles me, because you seem like a very good human being. But her? Hm. Not a person I would want in my life, truly -- because of "staying true to my values."
But I imagine as long as you keep agreeing to fund her choices, she will have no reason to change. She is, as you say, very smart, and knows how to do this gamesmanship very well evidently.
It is very tough --- but I hope you will begin to treat yourself with this degree of loyalty and care some day soon.
p.s. brian, I do the rubber band trick too sometimes...it works for me, weird as it sounds
Last edited by GiveLove; 07-21-2009 at 03:10 PM.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 131
So, I had a very good session with my therapist this afternoon. During the session I had a number of what I would consider ah ha moments.
First, she had me look at what my AGF was getting from me. This is what I came up with:
1. I was providing for her kids and keeping them safe... so she did not need to be at all concerned about her kids while using.... "They are safe and cared for... so now where can I go get a drink.?"
2. I was her "cleaning crew." She would make a mess of things... unpaid parking tickets, DUI's, overdrawn checking accounts... and I would come behind her and clean it all up. No "natural consequences" for her.
3. I was her emotional safety net. When she needed someone to emotionally lean on, I was there.
4. I was her ATM.
So far, I have stopped being her cleaning crew (something she REALLY struggling with. She found out today that she has a failure to appear warrant out for her... Being honest, I didn't even know about the ticket (probably because she never gave it to me).
I have stopped being her emotional safety net. No contact makes that pretty easy.
I am still a bit of her ATM.... I am paying for her treatment, but she is in a very tight budget for incidentals that is managed by the treatment center.
And I am still caring for her kids. The only thing I am prepared under any circumstance to do over time, without demonstrated change on her part, is to care for the kids. They are innocents. (Someone said that there might be family that could step up.... I had a PI look into extended family... not an option.)
My therapist then talked with me about the concept of reciprocity in a relationship. The concept goes something like this.
Everyone in a relationship places the other party somewhere on the priority list. Codependent move themselves way down the priority list and the other person way up the priority list. In a healthy relationship, both sides place the other person somewhere near the top, but not at the top. Care of self needs to come before all. As long as both people put the other near the top... you have some symetry and the possiblitiy of are reciprocity. Both people guard and protect the other's well being. The don't control the other's well being, but they actively look out for it.
In a relationship with an alcoholic, there is no reciprocity. The alcoholic places the partner at the bottom of the priority list... if they are on the list at all. This was true for my AGF and me. Toward the end, I was not even on her priority list. As my therapist described it, I was not just a small part of my AGF's life "equation," I was not part of the equation at all.
I found this a very interesting way to view this. Using this lens, my frustration and anger is driven by the fact that I am not part of the equation... that I am being ignored as a human being.... my existence has no value....
In her opinion, what healthy peopel do when they are too far down the priority list is to say "Either I move up on the list... and stay there... as demonstrated by actions... or I walk." What co-dependents do is delude themselves into thinking "If I only did _____ more, she would see my worth as a human being." If anything, all that does is feed the addiction. The addict is taught that the worse I treat the person, the more aggregious my behaviour, the more my partner will do for me.
She said that healing starts when you slam your fist down on the table and say "I matter." And mean it, and take action to defend your inherent self-worth.
She agreed with me that when an enabler puts their foot down and stops enabling (by defending their own self worth), then the addict often leaves... to go find a new enabler. In essence, the addicts thinks... hmmm the gig is up.... time to move on. The leave because their partner is getting well and is stronger, not becaus their partner is weak.
Sorry about the lenght of the post. You may or may not agree... but I found this very helpful to me and thought I would share.
First, she had me look at what my AGF was getting from me. This is what I came up with:
1. I was providing for her kids and keeping them safe... so she did not need to be at all concerned about her kids while using.... "They are safe and cared for... so now where can I go get a drink.?"
2. I was her "cleaning crew." She would make a mess of things... unpaid parking tickets, DUI's, overdrawn checking accounts... and I would come behind her and clean it all up. No "natural consequences" for her.
3. I was her emotional safety net. When she needed someone to emotionally lean on, I was there.
4. I was her ATM.
So far, I have stopped being her cleaning crew (something she REALLY struggling with. She found out today that she has a failure to appear warrant out for her... Being honest, I didn't even know about the ticket (probably because she never gave it to me).
I have stopped being her emotional safety net. No contact makes that pretty easy.
I am still a bit of her ATM.... I am paying for her treatment, but she is in a very tight budget for incidentals that is managed by the treatment center.
And I am still caring for her kids. The only thing I am prepared under any circumstance to do over time, without demonstrated change on her part, is to care for the kids. They are innocents. (Someone said that there might be family that could step up.... I had a PI look into extended family... not an option.)
My therapist then talked with me about the concept of reciprocity in a relationship. The concept goes something like this.
Everyone in a relationship places the other party somewhere on the priority list. Codependent move themselves way down the priority list and the other person way up the priority list. In a healthy relationship, both sides place the other person somewhere near the top, but not at the top. Care of self needs to come before all. As long as both people put the other near the top... you have some symetry and the possiblitiy of are reciprocity. Both people guard and protect the other's well being. The don't control the other's well being, but they actively look out for it.
In a relationship with an alcoholic, there is no reciprocity. The alcoholic places the partner at the bottom of the priority list... if they are on the list at all. This was true for my AGF and me. Toward the end, I was not even on her priority list. As my therapist described it, I was not just a small part of my AGF's life "equation," I was not part of the equation at all.
I found this a very interesting way to view this. Using this lens, my frustration and anger is driven by the fact that I am not part of the equation... that I am being ignored as a human being.... my existence has no value....
In her opinion, what healthy peopel do when they are too far down the priority list is to say "Either I move up on the list... and stay there... as demonstrated by actions... or I walk." What co-dependents do is delude themselves into thinking "If I only did _____ more, she would see my worth as a human being." If anything, all that does is feed the addiction. The addict is taught that the worse I treat the person, the more aggregious my behaviour, the more my partner will do for me.
She said that healing starts when you slam your fist down on the table and say "I matter." And mean it, and take action to defend your inherent self-worth.
She agreed with me that when an enabler puts their foot down and stops enabling (by defending their own self worth), then the addict often leaves... to go find a new enabler. In essence, the addicts thinks... hmmm the gig is up.... time to move on. The leave because their partner is getting well and is stronger, not becaus their partner is weak.
Sorry about the lenght of the post. You may or may not agree... but I found this very helpful to me and thought I would share.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
This reminded me - the last counseling session I had with my AH - he complained that I treated him like a "non-entity". Or something close to that.
I think it was projection, since I was very low on his priority list, if I was on it at all.
It's been made crystal clear to me that my existence had/has absolutely no value to him whatsoever. And this is with him in "recovery".
It's really something when you discover that what you thought you had was a complete illusion, and one of your own making.
I think it was projection, since I was very low on his priority list, if I was on it at all.
It's been made crystal clear to me that my existence had/has absolutely no value to him whatsoever. And this is with him in "recovery".
It's really something when you discover that what you thought you had was a complete illusion, and one of your own making.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 494
Trainwreak - I don't really know that to say except thanks for sharing. I am struggling a bit with a similar (but much less involved) situation. I have found a lot of the posts in your thread helpful, so thank you for sharing this topic and yourself.
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