Chrysalis123

I wish I could give you a hug. :ghug3 I felt exactly like this when I began to hit my bottom.

First off you are not trash. You did the best you could with what you knew at the time. You are a caring, helpful, thoughtful person that deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.

I felt immense shame and embarrassment about myself and my choices and could not believe what my life had become. I'd think about my situation and feel like I was describing a soap opera involving trashy folks. How could this be? I felt shame because of his actions too. We had this dynamic where somehow his personal shame got projected onto me and I took it. I was very tangled up and enmeshed in his world, so much so that I did not know where I started or where I ended. I was lost, depressed, ashamed, angry, resentful, and controlling, easily manipulated and gullible. Took me a long time to realize that his words and actions did not match. In other words he was intentionally lying, stealing, and cheating.

I did not get out of this right away. In fact my best thinking got me into my predicament and I finally knew I needed help. So I found a counselor for me. (Marriage counseling was a failure because he also lied and manipulated that too.)
Alanon was a tremendous help to me as well, although it took all my courage to walk into that first meeting.

I thought in small steps thanks to encouragement from this site. What is one thing you could do today for you and/or your kids that will help? All those small steps got me on the road to recovery and a much improved mental health.

steve11694

If you really love him, then you must do the "loving" thing; let him feel the consequences of his actions/choices.

We as loved ones too often only hurt them by cushioning them at our emotional and FINANCIAL expense.

Feeling the consequences is the loving thing as it is the ONLY thing that can lead to to sobriety.


No need to feel bad or guilty, but fell righteous!!

My aw borrowed money from friends then never repaid them.

Pelican

Legally, there is a problem with kicking him out first. I need to file paperwork first for divorce before kicking him out. Last time I kicked him out (the week before rehab), his mother was trying to get him to transfer property he owns out of his name so I don't get it. So if I kick him out without paperwork, he will go to her house. She will then start having him sign over deeds to the 2 properties that are in his name. I have already consulted with an atty about this part.

That property won't bring you serenity. It's just stuff. For all you know, he has mortgaged that property and owes money on it. If he hasn't, he may in the future. You will have been staying and subjecting yourself and family to the roller coaster lifestyle of living with addiction just for a future pay out. Magical thinking.

I walked away from a house that I had put my inheritance into as a down payment. My RAXH had the house put in his name solely. I was in denial at the time of the closing. It was his way of controlling me and he thought I would never walk away. Guess what? I put my walking shoes on and kept going. I just found out the house will be going into foreclosure.

Today is Wednesday. A lawyer can have the papers drawn before the week is out. I do advise getting legal protection for yourself and children. He is still drinking, lying, manipulating. Things can escalate, you need protection.

ItsmeAlice

Codependency has meant for me that I have been living in the shoes of someone else. Most recently my ABF (before him, my parents). He drinks to avoid emotional baggage, and as a codependent, I pick up and carry that baggage for him.

For example, by feeling the shame of ABF's actions or by stepping in to resolve disputes without him suffering the consequences that anyone else would suffer (DUI, arrest for theft in your AH's case), I am codependent.

Some things, which on the surface keeps me safe (protecting funds, not leaving the pets in his care, keeping up boundaries, and detaching from him) only perpetuate my control of him. I may be controlling the world around me and keeping me in recovery, but he's getting swept up in it and doesn't have full control over his own life as a result.

The only true way for me to recover from codependency is to be entirely independent (emotionally, financially, spiritually). That does not necessarily mean I can never have him or even some future love in my life. It just means that I have to make a conscious effort of not sucking in other adult persons into what I have control over. A recovering alcoholic cannot drink. A recoverying codependent cannot have say over another functioning adult.

I have come to understand that unless I can fully recover from my issues living with him, I will have to leave him, not because I do not care for him, and not because I think he will see the light and seek his own recovery, but because I have to let go of what I am trying to control and put myself where I cannot control anyone else. Until then, anyone I am with may suffer the same hostage treatment that ABF has.

Is he still an active alcoholic? Yes.
Do you think my codepency would be any better if he were in recovery? Heck no.

I can just see myself watching his every move, monitoring every dime he spent, on what, when, how much. I can see myself taking on the guilt of any relapse, the anger of every step back he took from me to manage his own recovery.

You asked if leaving was the consenus. I don't think it is. Is it required for your recovery and mine?...possibly. I'm making progress, but there's a huge obstacle in letting go of all control and truly recovering, at least for me.

Alice

Pelican

((((Hugs)))))

I wanted to add support and encouragement.

You've had a lot of reality to deal with in a short period of time. Your eyes are opening, it's a good thing and it is also a painful thing. Be kind to yourself. You were doing the best you could at the time.

Also, a petition for divorce does not mean the end of your marriage. It is a positive step to protect yourself and possible assets from active addiction. Don't borrow trouble from a future that hasn't happened yet, concerning lowlifes he may encounter if you are seperated. He is an adult and he can care for himself. You can deal with life in the future when it happens.

For today: One day at a time. One hour at a time!

LaTeeDa

I believe you when you say you are not ready to leave. You asked him when his bottom will be. I would ask you when yours will be.

If I had it to do over again, I would have found a counselor before I kicked my husband out. I think it would have helped me make rational decisions rather than emotional ones. I'm not saying the decisions would have been different, but I think the way I handled them would have been different.

The three A's

Awareness
Acceptance
Action

They go in that order. If action seems difficult or impossible, it is because you haven't come to terms with acceptance yet. He is exactly who he is RIGHT NOW. Can you live with that?

Consider this: What if the way things are now is as good as it gets? What if you were to base your decisions on WHAT IS, instead of what might be?

L

Wascally Wabbit

It won't end. He will do what a's do until he is genuinely and sincerely working the steps. By working, I mean WORKING, not saying he's working them. Actions speak very loudly with a's.

TakingCharge999

You said:

I know I am powerless over alcohol.

Dear whyamistaying, this is the realization that starts the recovery path. You are no longer fighting against the tide, but surrendering to it. Do not say you are trash, that is very mean! you took past decisions that were not that great. OK. What this man does or does not do, is a reflection on him and him only.

We all see him for who he is, and see you for who you are... we are all here rooting for your happiness...

I also wish I could hug you!

sandrawg

Oh honey, honey, honey. This kills me to see you refer to yourself in such disparaging terms.

You married an alcoholic...this doesn't make you trash, or a loser! I dated an alcoholic for 2 years. Am I trash? Am I a loser? H&ll no!! you aren't either!

I also dated a guy who was abusive for a year.

I married a man who left me when I developed an anxiety disorder.

Look, you fell in love with someone, and either he had a problem you weren't aware of, or you quickly fell into denial about. I'm sure there were good qualities about him that you feel in love with, but you see, an addict/alcholic, is not himself. That is not a person who's capable of thinking about anything other than getting the drug or drink, and they'll do anything to feed their addiction, even STEAL.

So, there's no blame for you to be had in this situation. We all have ended up in bad relationships-SO many people do it-in fact, I might guess it's the NORM, from the experiences I've known about! No reason for us to beat ourselves up!

Please stop saying 'I am trash' --would you call any of us trash simply because we fell in love with alcoholics? Of course not. So instead say loving things towards yourself. You deserve that, at least.

{hugs}

sandrawg

I read this on another post, and I think it's a sticky:

What Addicts Do

My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.

My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.

My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.

MsPINKAcres

**I tried to post this yesterday but it was during the time SR was being updated so I apologize that it is a late reply

((why))

Oh honey - how heart broken you must be -

It must have been very difficult going to your parents.

Yes I know it is NOT our shame to bear - but it is still difficult to tell our family that the person in our lives is so affected by a disease that they will do some of the things they do.

Please know that most of all - YOU have lots of options and choices right now.

For me - when the time came that I was totally uncomfortable with all of my Ah's actions, behaviors and active drinking/using - I knew it was time for me to make changes in me and in my life - whatever those changes were - got to be my choice.

You can seek guidance thru recovery and your Higher Power - I believe that you will find strength, courage and wisdom in you that you didn't know exsisted - I know that I did.

I made my choices and although life is not perfect - it is filled with serenity, joy and Freedom.

I wish you the same!
HUGS (hope, unity, gratitude and serenity)
Rita

whyamistaying

Thank you all. I took a break off the computer yesterday and prayed and journaled.

I consulted with a family law paralegal (not an atty yet). I also bought my parents a safe.

AH called and apologized to my dad and went to an AA meeting and another one today. He has a "new" sponsor and has not drank for 2 days. What does that mean? Nothing.

I know I am not trash somewhere inside, but I my eyes right now see me as that. I am warning my parents and my sister (who AH has been in their houses recently) about their valuables. That is not normal. I am telling my neighbor (who is my friend) to watch her stuff. That is not normal. It is embarassing.

I question what is wrong with my head that I am now okay with my AH hurting my parents. He used to just cause chaos for me and this was my junk to deal with, but now he is doing this to my parents. What kind of daughter am I that I stay married to someone who does that to his in-laws? How would it ever be the same even once he is sober?

We haven't even gotten to the part where he does jail time for his second DUI. I will then have a husband who is a thief and has done jail time.

Due to his drinking, he has trespassed into someone's house (about a year ago), gotten DUI, and another DUI, and now theft. I thought it would at least stay status quo if he didn't have a driver's license and he couldn't get in much legal trouble, but he has.

I told my mom, the hard part is knowing that you can be 1 day away from him deciding that is enough and stopping drinking and then...wala you have your husband back. But only he can decide that, and you just pray that it will be soon and you can't believe it hasn't happened already. And with each instance, you say, this has to be it. And it isn't.

In my heart and in my gut, I need to file divorce papers. I want to do it to teach him, but I know I can't do it for that reason. On the other hand, I want to do it to cut off my liability and end this madness. Yet, I still haven't gone to the courthouse? What is wrong with me? It is complete insanity.

Gypsy Feet

Im sorry honey, but this just isn't true. While some marriages do rebuild, you can never go back. Even if he quit drinking, you still have all of the awful things he has done between you. And really, by buying the safe, and believing he is a day away from being better, you are only making it worse for him. You are helping him to stay a drunk. I hope as the days pass, you will find yourself focusing on YOUR recovery more and more, focusing on the well being of your children more and more, and focusing on him less and less, until your life is in your hands, and his life is in his.

whyamistaying

Well, he doesn't know I bought the safe. I did that for my parents and he isn't allowed there as of now. He doesn't know that I "think" he is 1 day away, but I suppose my actions show him that I still "believe" in him and that we are 1 day away??

Still thinking. I don't know how we'd survive this truthfully. I wish you all knew he before this. This isn't who I married.

Gypsy Feet

I do know, in a way I really loved mine too, we were great together, we were happy. It just went to far, and there was no getting it back.

The sooner you start taking care of you, the sooner you will be taken care of

sandrawg

I believe you. That's why they say the disease is progressive. It progressed so far, it turned him into someone you don't even know anymore. It's almost like a death. Maybe that's what you're afraid of. It will feel like he's died if you leave. You will feel like you've abandoned that good man from the beginning, that you married.

But the "he" that he was in the beginning, is not him now. He already died ages ago.

Pelican

I want to do it to cut off my liability and end this madness. Yet, I still haven't gone to the courthouse? What is wrong with me? It is complete insanity

That is a healthy reason to go to the courthouse. To cut your liability to his behavior. There are still consequences to his present and past behaviors, and they are his to handle. He is an adult, he does not need a babysitter to make sure he makes the right moves.

The 'why' you haven't done anything legally yet, may be fear based. The filing does not mean immediate divorce. The filing means there is a condition of the relationship that has failed and the partners are seeking legal seperation. Legal seperation protects you and your children from the next, what if.....

Keeping a journal is a good idea. You can express yourself freely. You can also go back and re-read what was on your heart at that time. I found that when I went back and read some of the pages and pages I wrote about my frustrations during my marriage, it was very revealing. My writings showed that the same problems kept recurring. I kept trying to deal with him in the only way I knew how. I kept trying to get him to do things my way, see things my way and make me happy according to my terms.

Now, I see my writings as the areas I need to work on myself. My own personal project area. Why do I allow myself to get into that situation, why do I tolerate such behavior, what are my true feelings. What are my responsibilities? You see, I am learning to focus my energy on the only thing I have control over, my one precious life.

Face your own fears. I have found that my fears are often "False Evidence Appearing Real". Are you afraid to file for divorce because he may get sober and meet someone else and she will benefit from the 'new guy' and you won't? That's selfish. Your children will get the benefit of the new guy, and you will too in your dealings with him for the rest of your life. The chances of him getting sober, turning into the new guy, and meeting someone else aren't as likely as the chances of you getting better and meeting someone who is open, honest, forthright and treats you with respect as a full-fledge partner in life. Your chances are even better if you focus on your needs and what you want out of your one precious life!

Let me ask you a hard question about the safe. This is hard to ask, because I don't want to offend you, but I want you to think about your reaction and the emotions tied to it. Your parents set a boundary with your AH: He is not permitted into their home until he appologizes and does 60 days of AA sober. Then you go to the store and buy them a safe for their home.

Question: Why did you buy your parents a safe for their home, after they have established a boundary with your husband??

It appears you are trying to protect him from himself. If he does the 60 days of sobriety with AA, if he apologizes, and if he is allowed back into their home; you have protected him from himself and put his temptation out of his reach. Do you see how this is perceived as codie behavior?

That's a lot of your energy spent on someone else's life. Another capable adults's life. Wouldn't it be better to focus your energy on your one precious life? I'd love to see that as your future!:ghug2

whyamistaying

I bought the safe because I feel bad that I put my parents in this position. They didn't marry him. I did. I know he isn't allowed there, but now they feel violated and I feel bad about that. I guess because I still can't believe that my AH did this...that even when he does, if he does get allowed in their house, after complying with my parents, I don't trust that he won't do it again. That why should they now have to pay to protect their belongs because of my husband?

That was my thinking. But wow--I can see that that is codependent behavior. But it is hard to just leave my parents wide open for when he is allowed in his house. So they should protect themselves, not me. And if they don't protect their belongings, then it is their problem? So I am protecting him from again hurting my parents.

Okay, I am going to chew on this a bit.

laurie6781

Now, I am not trying to be mean here, honest. Just some things I see:

You bought your folks a safe. Now are not your folks adults? Can they not make their own decision on whether they need a safe or not? Yes, I understand you were 'trying' to 'protect' your folks, because you don't trust your AH. I used to do that A LOT, in my Mrs. Fix It mode. Yes, and 'protecting him' is also enabling.

This is really not about your folks or your AH. This is about your own co dependent behavior. Now is the time to start working on you, for the sake of YOU and YOUR CHILDREN.

For your own serenity, peace of mind and sanity can you please take your eyes off of him and focus them on you. No need to feel bad about yourself because you have him for a husband. Heck there are non A's that act worse and say worse things than some A's. We make choices, we fall in love or lust, and only see the 'good points' of a potential partner. NOT YOUR FAULT.

Please stop focusing on him. If you have read "Co Dependent No More" please read it again, if you have not read it, it is very reasonable on Amazon.com and it is a very informative and helpful book.

What are you doing for YOU?

Love and hugs,

Pelican

Yep, it's one of the hardest lessons to learn. We have lived on auto pilot for so long, always anticipating the next screw up. Running around putting out forest fires that haven't happened yet, is exhausting!

You're beginning to recognize your part, that's a good thing. That is the only thing you can control, you.