why can't we have adult conversations!
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 137
why can't we have adult conversations!
That is what my exAH said to me yesterday. He has set visitation times with our daughter and has not once showed up on time, I am SO sick of it. He is suppose to be in recovery although he does not have a sponser and is not really working a program.
Yesterday I left the house around 1230PM and he was not there, he was suppose to be there at noon. My oldest daughter was there as he still has supervised visitation. My 10yr old called me after 1PM and told me she had called her Dad to see where he was and he told her he was out for lunch!!!! WHAT!!!!!! He didn't show up until after 2PM.
So when I got home he was still there, so I asked to speak with him in another room. I asked him what was going on, why he was not here on time? He says I was out to lunch, what's the big deal!? I said you were suppose to be here at noon, your daughter was waiting for you. It causes her great anxiety when you don't show up on time because she thinks you might be doing something, he laughed at me....telling me that she thinks no such thing, that it is all in my head!
He then goes on to tell me that I should not talk to him that way and why can't I have adult conversations! I told him that when he starts to act like a adult, then we can have adult conversations. He really saw nothing wrong with what he did, and feels that there was no reason for me or her to be upset....I can truly see that the problem is still really, really, there!! But, my heart breaks for my daughter...
Yesterday I left the house around 1230PM and he was not there, he was suppose to be there at noon. My oldest daughter was there as he still has supervised visitation. My 10yr old called me after 1PM and told me she had called her Dad to see where he was and he told her he was out for lunch!!!! WHAT!!!!!! He didn't show up until after 2PM.
So when I got home he was still there, so I asked to speak with him in another room. I asked him what was going on, why he was not here on time? He says I was out to lunch, what's the big deal!? I said you were suppose to be here at noon, your daughter was waiting for you. It causes her great anxiety when you don't show up on time because she thinks you might be doing something, he laughed at me....telling me that she thinks no such thing, that it is all in my head!
He then goes on to tell me that I should not talk to him that way and why can't I have adult conversations! I told him that when he starts to act like a adult, then we can have adult conversations. He really saw nothing wrong with what he did, and feels that there was no reason for me or her to be upset....I can truly see that the problem is still really, really, there!! But, my heart breaks for my daughter...
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
It doesn't seem to matter if they are sober or not; they have a real problem taking responsibility for their actions. Maybe that's the first building block in an addictive personality. I've been married to two and they both acted like that!
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
OMG!!! I could have started this thread today!
I've been dealing with something very similar. STBXAH has been trying to force dd to accept his girlfriend- he began this 3 weeks after we told her we were getting a divorce. She is NOT ready. It's been 9 months since we told her what is going on, and knowing dd is not ok yet- he told her during one of their visits last week that he is going to ask this woman to marry him- and asked dd how he should do it!
DD is so unhappy with him that she did not want to be with him last week, and doesn't want to talk to him, because as she tells me- he will not listen to her, tells her she needs to move on, she'll get over it, you're not my mom- you won't tell me what to do. Talk about immature!
Unfortunately, I have tried to talk to him- parent to parent- just concerned about dd. He blames me for everything. There is no being rational, no sympathy at all on his end. WHY can't the man give dd more time to process what is going on? Ugh!
Ok- I don't mean to vent- but I think you and I are dealing with the same issues- trying to be rational with an irrational person is IMPOSSIBLE! What you are concerned with is legit- and what I am concerned about is also legit. But- I am now trying to pick up my tools and realize I need to quit trying to have a conversation with my STBXAH. Short and sweet. . . not hooked in like I tend to get.
Maybe what you can do is to wait for your AH- if he is late- leave and enjoy your time with you dd? If you tell him you will wait 15 minutes- and if he isn't there within that time- follow through and leave. By doing that- IMHO- you are showing dd that she is important- that being on time is important- and you aren't going to let dad's irresponsibility affect how you enjoy your day. Waiting around- frustrated, looking for him, getting your other dd involved, spending so much energy focused on why he's not there, what is he doing- all codependent. I am saying this as one who knows and continues to fall into the same behaviors.
Good luck- you aren't crazy! ;o)
I've been dealing with something very similar. STBXAH has been trying to force dd to accept his girlfriend- he began this 3 weeks after we told her we were getting a divorce. She is NOT ready. It's been 9 months since we told her what is going on, and knowing dd is not ok yet- he told her during one of their visits last week that he is going to ask this woman to marry him- and asked dd how he should do it!
DD is so unhappy with him that she did not want to be with him last week, and doesn't want to talk to him, because as she tells me- he will not listen to her, tells her she needs to move on, she'll get over it, you're not my mom- you won't tell me what to do. Talk about immature!
Unfortunately, I have tried to talk to him- parent to parent- just concerned about dd. He blames me for everything. There is no being rational, no sympathy at all on his end. WHY can't the man give dd more time to process what is going on? Ugh!
Ok- I don't mean to vent- but I think you and I are dealing with the same issues- trying to be rational with an irrational person is IMPOSSIBLE! What you are concerned with is legit- and what I am concerned about is also legit. But- I am now trying to pick up my tools and realize I need to quit trying to have a conversation with my STBXAH. Short and sweet. . . not hooked in like I tend to get.
Maybe what you can do is to wait for your AH- if he is late- leave and enjoy your time with you dd? If you tell him you will wait 15 minutes- and if he isn't there within that time- follow through and leave. By doing that- IMHO- you are showing dd that she is important- that being on time is important- and you aren't going to let dad's irresponsibility affect how you enjoy your day. Waiting around- frustrated, looking for him, getting your other dd involved, spending so much energy focused on why he's not there, what is he doing- all codependent. I am saying this as one who knows and continues to fall into the same behaviors.
Good luck- you aren't crazy! ;o)
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
I also am dealing with this and have 2 kids. My kids' response to his poor choices is all my doing, according to him. I am "brainwashing" them. I have come to the conculsion that the only thing that is impotant to him is him and that in his mind other people are irrelevant unless they are useful his needs. He is irrational.
I agree with Paj, do not wait. In my case I leave after 5 minutes, if he has not called. Respectful people are sometimes late...respectful people call if this happens.
I agree with Paj, do not wait. In my case I leave after 5 minutes, if he has not called. Respectful people are sometimes late...respectful people call if this happens.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
I am so glad I'm not alone in the world! I hate to see any of us going through this, but it sure helps to hear what you guys do/don't do in this situation. One thing I can say for sure- I am grateful I don't have to live with his krappy behavior 24/7 anymore. Now I just need to figure out how to deal with it when I have to. It's all about trying to get what I need, but man-oh-man, is it hard sometimes to figure that out!
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 646
Originally Posted by stillsearching 
thanks for the good points, I will too from now on leave or tell him he is not allowed to come if he is not on time...it's not fair to her. It just makes me ill....!!
It is not fair to you either. You have a right to a life when you know for certain if your child will be under his care. Are you divorced? If you are what does your separation agreement state? If he is not following it you have legal recourse. I know I am documenting everything good and bad. I make sure the language in my documentation is emotion free and would be acceptable for a third party to read (ie:judge) and will not make me look like a vindictive x-wife.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Aww I am very sorry to hear that. What he is doing is just cruel. My therapist told me, about my parent's divorce, that if grown up adults could not handle the situation as adults, there was no way a child like me could handle it either. To this day I ask them about how their relation was like as the therapist said I am probably following the same patter in my relations (they are both almost 60) and they cannot answer....
I recall being around 6 years old and being with my dad and the now wife for 20 years. I recall I was confused as to who she was.
To forgive her and forgive him has taken me 20 years. In fact I am not done with him yet.
It seems this man does not really does not understand what moving on really means and how he is affecting his daughter by his words and actions, that is probably very sad to witness, but at least she has you ! I agree, you can make a point on having fun and go skating, for an ice cream, etc. and make your daughter feel very special. At least that's what would have helped me a great deal.
Hugs!
I recall being around 6 years old and being with my dad and the now wife for 20 years. I recall I was confused as to who she was.
To forgive her and forgive him has taken me 20 years. In fact I am not done with him yet.
It seems this man does not really does not understand what moving on really means and how he is affecting his daughter by his words and actions, that is probably very sad to witness, but at least she has you ! I agree, you can make a point on having fun and go skating, for an ice cream, etc. and make your daughter feel very special. At least that's what would have helped me a great deal.
Hugs!
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Q: Why can't you have adult conversations.
A#1 (the feel-good, sarcastic, but nonetheless largely true answer): Because it takes 2 adults to have an adult conversation and he's not an adult!
A#2 (The Al Anon approved and even more true answer.) You can't have adult conversations because, although he is an adult, he refuses to act like one. The reason he refuses to act like one is, most likely, because he gets a lot of mileage out of that behavior and because a lot of enablers in his life have allowed him to get away with that. You can't force him to have an adult conversation....but you can treat him as an adult by refusing to have any conversation at all with him when he acts like a child and by allowing him to receive the consequences of his choosing to act like a child.
One thing that is true here in NYS is that, if a parent consistently fails to show up on time or at all for his/her portion of the "child care" responsibility and thereby causes the other parent to have to do more than his/her legal share, is that the parent that ends up doing child care that he/she is not supposed to have to be dong can charge the other parent for that time -- the same way as one wouls have to pay a baby-sitter. Also, here, if one parent fails to show up on time or at all over 30% of the time, then the other parent can use that to legally have the offending parent's visitation rights decreased or terminated. (The thing with any of this is that you want to know the laws in your sate and you have to keep good records detailing his behavior.)
Also, I'm thinking from what you said in your OP that you might think that your protecting yourself and setting good boundaries in this matter will hurt your daughter....but for me it was also very, very important to show my children what good self-care looked liked and that no one has to put up with being treated manipulatively and disrespectfully.
freya
A#1 (the feel-good, sarcastic, but nonetheless largely true answer): Because it takes 2 adults to have an adult conversation and he's not an adult!
A#2 (The Al Anon approved and even more true answer.) You can't have adult conversations because, although he is an adult, he refuses to act like one. The reason he refuses to act like one is, most likely, because he gets a lot of mileage out of that behavior and because a lot of enablers in his life have allowed him to get away with that. You can't force him to have an adult conversation....but you can treat him as an adult by refusing to have any conversation at all with him when he acts like a child and by allowing him to receive the consequences of his choosing to act like a child.
One thing that is true here in NYS is that, if a parent consistently fails to show up on time or at all for his/her portion of the "child care" responsibility and thereby causes the other parent to have to do more than his/her legal share, is that the parent that ends up doing child care that he/she is not supposed to have to be dong can charge the other parent for that time -- the same way as one wouls have to pay a baby-sitter. Also, here, if one parent fails to show up on time or at all over 30% of the time, then the other parent can use that to legally have the offending parent's visitation rights decreased or terminated. (The thing with any of this is that you want to know the laws in your sate and you have to keep good records detailing his behavior.)
Also, I'm thinking from what you said in your OP that you might think that your protecting yourself and setting good boundaries in this matter will hurt your daughter....but for me it was also very, very important to show my children what good self-care looked liked and that no one has to put up with being treated manipulatively and disrespectfully.
freya
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: looking for the sun in cold MN
Posts: 775
Originally Posted by freya
Also, I'm thinking from what you said in your OP that you might think that your protecting yourself and setting good boundaries in this matter will hurt your daughter....but for me it was also very, very important to show my children what good self-care looked liked and that no one has to put up with being treated manipulatively and disrespectfully.
freya
freya
I've talked to her about trusting her gut, and about how hard it is to do what is right for you even if it means it's upsetting to another person. Imagine how hard it is for her to tell her father she is upset and needs time to think about how she feels- so she doesn't want to see him? It goes against what I was taught- to honor my father and do whatever he says, stuff my feelings, don't trust my gut, etc. It's no wonder I'm the way I am- a people pleaser at my own expense. I'm working on that, and also trying to help dd learn what it means to set boundaries. Hard- and not always intuitive, but I think so necessary.
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