Do they all stick their heads in the sand? Now wants my help...
Can't make sense out of crazy.
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Do they all stick their heads in the sand? Now wants my help...
Is this common to alcoholics? (I'm pretty sure it is, just want some confirmation)
STBXAH has been an alcoholic since he was a young teen - first went to rehab at 15yo, he is now 40yo.
Anyhow.
Over the 14 years we were together, one of the things that frustrated me the most was whenever there was a problem to be dealt with that required any kind of real emotional energy or gumption, he would deal with it by not dealing with it. His most used phrase was "I can't control what anyone else does!"
Which is true. But.
You can take action. Which he never could do.
His exwife seriously physically and emotionally abused their children for YEARS. Which is why we got custody.
I was the one on the phone for hours with lawyers and social workers, I was the one taking all of the action that it seems any normal person would immediately take.
After we gained custody, exwife would still do alarming things, things that needed to be brought up and dealt with.
He could never really do any of it. He would say "I can't control what she does or doesn't do." Which, again, is true. BUT. There were things he could do. He always, always acted powerless.
Same thing with his mother. His mother disliked me from day one, though there were times over the years that we were (what I thought) close.
Anyhow, there were issues between me and her from day one and he never, ever could deal with them.
Things like the first Christmas we took all 6 (at the time) kids 6 hours to her home for the big family holiday get together. She told him to call her when we were 15 mins from her home. He did, it was then that she informed him that he was to bring his three children (her real grandkids) to her and then drop me and my three kids off at a local motel where she had made reservations, then he was to come back to her house to stay with her and his kids and the rest of the family.
That was the start of her rejection of me, and most hurtful of the daughter that STBXAH and I had together (her flesh and blood grandchild). She has been obsessive of the three "original" grandchildren, and totally rejects our child together for some reason I could NEVER figure out.
For all of those years, after all of the hurt and tears on my part, all of the talks and arguments, he still could never stand up to his mother and take up for his wife and child. Well, thats not entirely true. About 5 years ago, at my total insistancem he wrote her an email, worded as nicely as possible about the concerns. Her response was crazy and irate. Which immediately made him feel guilty and he ended up apologizing to her. And that was that.
Ironic thing is, is that she is a therapist and drug and alcohol counselor!!!!!!!!
When things between us started to get bad about 2.5 years ago, his older two children (now 15 and 20yo) wanted to go try and live with their bio mother. At the time I was very torn about this. They were causing problems, on top of the problems STBXAH was causing. In the end, it was his decision, and I guess the path of least resistance won out and so they moved back in with their bio mother. In a large way it broke my heart. I
had raised those kids for most of their lives and I knew they were going into a not so great situation. I rationalized by telling myself they were older now abd could pretty much take care of themselves. I had no rights, no ultimate say, so what was done was done.
The oldest, a boy, has been okay. He's not almost 21yo, works and as far as I can tell is a pretty good kid, with a decent head on his shoulders. I've been worried about the girl since the day she left.
Over the time she has been gone, things have alarmed me and I've brought them to STBXAH's attention. Again, he is powerless, can't control people, ect...
I've been telling him and telling him, having bad feelings about the things this girl was getting into (at 14yo she was arrested for shoplifting, was put on probation, while on probation she took ehr mothers car for a joy ride with friends and wrecked it, has missed a TON of school, they live near a ghetto area, with gangs, there were gang poses in pics of her and her friends posted on her myspace page, she was allowed to date a 19yo man, ect, ect, ect.....)
Well, now the 15yo girl is pregnant. I knew it would happen, my words have always been "she'll be pregnant by the time she's 15 if she's left there."
I feel guilty for ever having let her leave in the first place. At the time I was so stressed with living with an active alcoholic who was never, ever around, and when he was he was totally emotionally absent and a pretty bad parent.
I was trying to raise all 7 kids basically alone, with stepkids who were angry and they directed their anger at me.
So, now STBXAH wants my help. He wants me to be there for my stepdaughter. She's pretty much estranged from me. He says that can be turned around. I'm a former childbirth instructor, a birth doula (private brith coach), have worked with pregnant teens, ect....My interests are totally in birth and parenting, especially with high risk groups such as teens, low-income and minorities.
Dont get me wrong, I'd love to be there for my stepdaughter. But she's such a different child from when I knew her well last. I feel she's lost to the lifestyle she's in, and grieve for what she's losing as a young pregnant teen (I was pregnant at 18 so know a bit - but there is a big difference between 15yo and 18yo and we were totally different personalities, ect)
I want to talk to her and beg her to come live with me and my girls, her sisters, I want to take care of her and give her good guidance. But right now she's caught up in the fairytale of staying with the baby's father (17yo next door neighbor) and living happily ever after. We all know the odds of that happening.
I grieve the life this innocent little baby is going to be born into if she doesn't get the hell out of there.
I have been having dreams that STBXAH and I can get it together and get back together, convince her to move back in with us, help guide and nurture her through this pregnancy and parenting.
Thats what shoudl happen, thats what needs to happen.
The odds of it happening are close to none and that makes me really, really sad for all involved.
I dont know what advice or anything I'm asking for here, just needed to get this all out.
I know my "fantasy" is shared by STBXAH, as he told me so. He's not drank since Dec 1, after the huge blow out at Thanksgiving time where he spent Thanksgiving alone after our 11yo daughter didnt want to spend the holiday with him.
He also has gotten himself into talk to a counselor, has been twice, has started on antidepressants, ect......
I just dont see it lasting. I'm praying it does, maybe this will be the wake up call for him, I hope it is.
I'm just so mad at him for all the times he should have taken action on so many important things instead of running away emotionally and acting powerless. So mad at him for not taken approriate action so many times.
STBXAH has been an alcoholic since he was a young teen - first went to rehab at 15yo, he is now 40yo.
Anyhow.
Over the 14 years we were together, one of the things that frustrated me the most was whenever there was a problem to be dealt with that required any kind of real emotional energy or gumption, he would deal with it by not dealing with it. His most used phrase was "I can't control what anyone else does!"
Which is true. But.
You can take action. Which he never could do.
His exwife seriously physically and emotionally abused their children for YEARS. Which is why we got custody.
I was the one on the phone for hours with lawyers and social workers, I was the one taking all of the action that it seems any normal person would immediately take.
After we gained custody, exwife would still do alarming things, things that needed to be brought up and dealt with.
He could never really do any of it. He would say "I can't control what she does or doesn't do." Which, again, is true. BUT. There were things he could do. He always, always acted powerless.
Same thing with his mother. His mother disliked me from day one, though there were times over the years that we were (what I thought) close.
Anyhow, there were issues between me and her from day one and he never, ever could deal with them.
Things like the first Christmas we took all 6 (at the time) kids 6 hours to her home for the big family holiday get together. She told him to call her when we were 15 mins from her home. He did, it was then that she informed him that he was to bring his three children (her real grandkids) to her and then drop me and my three kids off at a local motel where she had made reservations, then he was to come back to her house to stay with her and his kids and the rest of the family.
That was the start of her rejection of me, and most hurtful of the daughter that STBXAH and I had together (her flesh and blood grandchild). She has been obsessive of the three "original" grandchildren, and totally rejects our child together for some reason I could NEVER figure out.
For all of those years, after all of the hurt and tears on my part, all of the talks and arguments, he still could never stand up to his mother and take up for his wife and child. Well, thats not entirely true. About 5 years ago, at my total insistancem he wrote her an email, worded as nicely as possible about the concerns. Her response was crazy and irate. Which immediately made him feel guilty and he ended up apologizing to her. And that was that.
Ironic thing is, is that she is a therapist and drug and alcohol counselor!!!!!!!!
When things between us started to get bad about 2.5 years ago, his older two children (now 15 and 20yo) wanted to go try and live with their bio mother. At the time I was very torn about this. They were causing problems, on top of the problems STBXAH was causing. In the end, it was his decision, and I guess the path of least resistance won out and so they moved back in with their bio mother. In a large way it broke my heart. I
had raised those kids for most of their lives and I knew they were going into a not so great situation. I rationalized by telling myself they were older now abd could pretty much take care of themselves. I had no rights, no ultimate say, so what was done was done.
The oldest, a boy, has been okay. He's not almost 21yo, works and as far as I can tell is a pretty good kid, with a decent head on his shoulders. I've been worried about the girl since the day she left.
Over the time she has been gone, things have alarmed me and I've brought them to STBXAH's attention. Again, he is powerless, can't control people, ect...
I've been telling him and telling him, having bad feelings about the things this girl was getting into (at 14yo she was arrested for shoplifting, was put on probation, while on probation she took ehr mothers car for a joy ride with friends and wrecked it, has missed a TON of school, they live near a ghetto area, with gangs, there were gang poses in pics of her and her friends posted on her myspace page, she was allowed to date a 19yo man, ect, ect, ect.....)
Well, now the 15yo girl is pregnant. I knew it would happen, my words have always been "she'll be pregnant by the time she's 15 if she's left there."
I feel guilty for ever having let her leave in the first place. At the time I was so stressed with living with an active alcoholic who was never, ever around, and when he was he was totally emotionally absent and a pretty bad parent.
I was trying to raise all 7 kids basically alone, with stepkids who were angry and they directed their anger at me.
So, now STBXAH wants my help. He wants me to be there for my stepdaughter. She's pretty much estranged from me. He says that can be turned around. I'm a former childbirth instructor, a birth doula (private brith coach), have worked with pregnant teens, ect....My interests are totally in birth and parenting, especially with high risk groups such as teens, low-income and minorities.
Dont get me wrong, I'd love to be there for my stepdaughter. But she's such a different child from when I knew her well last. I feel she's lost to the lifestyle she's in, and grieve for what she's losing as a young pregnant teen (I was pregnant at 18 so know a bit - but there is a big difference between 15yo and 18yo and we were totally different personalities, ect)
I want to talk to her and beg her to come live with me and my girls, her sisters, I want to take care of her and give her good guidance. But right now she's caught up in the fairytale of staying with the baby's father (17yo next door neighbor) and living happily ever after. We all know the odds of that happening.
I grieve the life this innocent little baby is going to be born into if she doesn't get the hell out of there.
I have been having dreams that STBXAH and I can get it together and get back together, convince her to move back in with us, help guide and nurture her through this pregnancy and parenting.
Thats what shoudl happen, thats what needs to happen.
The odds of it happening are close to none and that makes me really, really sad for all involved.
I dont know what advice or anything I'm asking for here, just needed to get this all out.
I know my "fantasy" is shared by STBXAH, as he told me so. He's not drank since Dec 1, after the huge blow out at Thanksgiving time where he spent Thanksgiving alone after our 11yo daughter didnt want to spend the holiday with him.
He also has gotten himself into talk to a counselor, has been twice, has started on antidepressants, ect......
I just dont see it lasting. I'm praying it does, maybe this will be the wake up call for him, I hope it is.
I'm just so mad at him for all the times he should have taken action on so many important things instead of running away emotionally and acting powerless. So mad at him for not taken approriate action so many times.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by strongerwoman 
But right now she's caught up in the fairytale of staying with the baby's father (17yo next door neighbor) and living happily ever after. We all know the odds of that happening.
. . .
I know my "fantasy" is shared by STBXAH, as he told me so.
. . .
I know my "fantasy" is shared by STBXAH, as he told me so.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hey there StrongerWoman,
Yes, I do believe they all stick their head in the sand. In fact, they all seem to find the exact same patch of sand to do it in. I call it the beaches on the river of denial
As far as that 15yr old, I once adopted a troubled 15yr old. She came as part of the package with my ex-wife. There were a number of other troubled teens in the neighborhood, and they wound up spending a lot of time in my house.
Twenty years later and they are all grown up, with lives and families of their own. They've told me several times that it wasn't anything I did for them that helped them. None of the "fatherly advice" do they remember, and boy did I hand out a lot of it. None of my efforts at helping the made a single difference. What they tell me is that they watched the kind of person I _was_, and they decided they wanted to grow up to be the kind of person I was.
Looking back at my own childhood, when I was a troubled teen living in an alcoholic family, I see that the same is true for me. I don't remember any advice that was given to me. What I remember is the adults I met who lived an honest, righteous life. I wanted to grow up to be like them.
I don't have a crystal ball that will tell you what is best for that 15yr old you're talking about. I do know that whenever I follow my first insticts and ride to the rescue of somebody I always foul it up. When I sit back and live _my_ life according to the principles of recovery I end up doing a whole lot more good for people.
Mike
Yes, I do believe they all stick their head in the sand. In fact, they all seem to find the exact same patch of sand to do it in. I call it the beaches on the river of denial
As far as that 15yr old, I once adopted a troubled 15yr old. She came as part of the package with my ex-wife. There were a number of other troubled teens in the neighborhood, and they wound up spending a lot of time in my house.
Twenty years later and they are all grown up, with lives and families of their own. They've told me several times that it wasn't anything I did for them that helped them. None of the "fatherly advice" do they remember, and boy did I hand out a lot of it. None of my efforts at helping the made a single difference. What they tell me is that they watched the kind of person I _was_, and they decided they wanted to grow up to be the kind of person I was.
Looking back at my own childhood, when I was a troubled teen living in an alcoholic family, I see that the same is true for me. I don't remember any advice that was given to me. What I remember is the adults I met who lived an honest, righteous life. I wanted to grow up to be like them.
I don't have a crystal ball that will tell you what is best for that 15yr old you're talking about. I do know that whenever I follow my first insticts and ride to the rescue of somebody I always foul it up. When I sit back and live _my_ life according to the principles of recovery I end up doing a whole lot more good for people.
Mike
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by tommyk
STBXAH
LOL, ILTABICATWTM
(I love these acronyms but I'm clueless as to what they mean.)
LOL, ILTABICATWTM
(I love these acronyms but I'm clueless as to what they mean.)
To
Be
eX
Alcoholic
Husband
:o)
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by denny57
I could always see when someone else was in fantasy land. I can look back and am amazed at the denial land I was living in.
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
Hey there StrongerWoman,
Yes, I do believe they all stick their head in the sand. In fact, they all seem to find the exact same patch of sand to do it in. I call it the beaches on the river of denial
As far as that 15yr old, I once adopted a troubled 15yr old. She came as part of the package with my ex-wife. There were a number of other troubled teens in the neighborhood, and they wound up spending a lot of time in my house.
Twenty years later and they are all grown up, with lives and families of their own. They've told me several times that it wasn't anything I did for them that helped them. None of the "fatherly advice" do they remember, and boy did I hand out a lot of it. None of my efforts at helping the made a single difference. What they tell me is that they watched the kind of person I _was_, and they decided they wanted to grow up to be the kind of person I was.
Looking back at my own childhood, when I was a troubled teen living in an alcoholic family, I see that the same is true for me. I don't remember any advice that was given to me. What I remember is the adults I met who lived an honest, righteous life. I wanted to grow up to be like them.
I don't have a crystal ball that will tell you what is best for that 15yr old you're talking about. I do know that whenever I follow my first insticts and ride to the rescue of somebody I always foul it up. When I sit back and live _my_ life according to the principles of recovery I end up doing a whole lot more good for people.
Mike
Yes, I do believe they all stick their head in the sand. In fact, they all seem to find the exact same patch of sand to do it in. I call it the beaches on the river of denial
As far as that 15yr old, I once adopted a troubled 15yr old. She came as part of the package with my ex-wife. There were a number of other troubled teens in the neighborhood, and they wound up spending a lot of time in my house.
Twenty years later and they are all grown up, with lives and families of their own. They've told me several times that it wasn't anything I did for them that helped them. None of the "fatherly advice" do they remember, and boy did I hand out a lot of it. None of my efforts at helping the made a single difference. What they tell me is that they watched the kind of person I _was_, and they decided they wanted to grow up to be the kind of person I was.
Looking back at my own childhood, when I was a troubled teen living in an alcoholic family, I see that the same is true for me. I don't remember any advice that was given to me. What I remember is the adults I met who lived an honest, righteous life. I wanted to grow up to be like them.
I don't have a crystal ball that will tell you what is best for that 15yr old you're talking about. I do know that whenever I follow my first insticts and ride to the rescue of somebody I always foul it up. When I sit back and live _my_ life according to the principles of recovery I end up doing a whole lot more good for people.
Mike
Thing is, is that she lives 2 hours away, and with her father and I on the verge of divorce, I rarely, if ever see her at all anymore. If I do its for a 5 minute "hello, how are good, good to see you..."
She doesnt have anyone in her life that is very stable or a role model at all.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
I don't have a crystal ball that will tell you what is best for that 15yr old you're talking about. I do know that whenever I follow my first insticts and ride to the rescue of somebody I always foul it up. When I sit back and live _my_ life according to the principles of recovery I end up doing a whole lot more good for people.
I got a very distraught phone call from the stepmother of my grandkids recently in regards to my 13 year old granddaughter.
God knows over the years, especially when that girl was a baby, I tried so very hard to rescue her from a horrible situation. The system sucks. That's all I can say.
I'm getting old, and I'm tired. A few days later I get a distraught call from my 30 year old addict daughter who has lost custody of those kids, but unfortunately is still very much a part of their lives.
It's he said, she said, and everyone is trying to pull me into the middle, and you know what? As much as I love my granddaughter, I'm not the parent, and it's not my job to rescue.
Leave me out of it. I have my program of recovery, and as you said, I live my life according to those principals.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by strongerwoman
Thanks for the post Mike.
Thing is, is that she lives 2 hours away, and with her father and I on the verge of divorce, I rarely, if ever see her at all anymore. If I do its for a 5 minute "hello, how are good, good to see you..."
She doesnt have anyone in her life that is very stable or a role model at all.
Thing is, is that she lives 2 hours away, and with her father and I on the verge of divorce, I rarely, if ever see her at all anymore. If I do its for a 5 minute "hello, how are good, good to see you..."
She doesnt have anyone in her life that is very stable or a role model at all.
At 20 she popped back into my life. She needed a job, needed a reference. Apparently, she'd kept in touch with all the other kids in the neighborhood and they all told her that _I_ was a righteous person. She told me that I was the only adult on the street that had ever smiled at her. She'd left the guy, was now living with a couple other Moms in a small apartment, working on her GED.
At 24 she appeared again. Had started college, had her own place, and just wanted to chat. Said she wanted to try a little modeling. A year later she was a rising star in Hollywood, one of the top talents with contracts coming out her ears. I actually got to negotiate a contract for a customer who was trying to hire her. That 14yr old trouble maker had grown into one wicked smart negotiator, outsmarting a team of lawyers and _me_, her one time mentor.
At 26 she came to see me. Said she was quitting the glamour business because she wanted to be a Mom instead. She didn't want her little boy, who was now 10 yrs old, to have the kind of life she had grown up with. Said she wanted to raise him the way _I_ showed her how to raise children.
I never did anything _for_ her. Not once. I just lived my life as best I could and smiled at the little truant as she would fly by on her bicycle. It's not _what_ I do in life that helped this child, it's _how_ I did it.
Mike
p.s. Last I heard she's working on her Ph.D. in Psychology, and planning to get an M.D. so she can be a psychiatrist.
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Originally Posted by strongerwoman
I want to talk to her and beg her to come live with me and my girls, her sisters, I want to take care of her and give her good guidance. But right now she's caught up in the fairytale of staying with the baby's father (17yo next door neighbor) and living happily ever after. We all know the odds of that happening.
I grieve the life this innocent little baby is going to be born into if she doesn't get the hell out of there.
I grieve the life this innocent little baby is going to be born into if she doesn't get the hell out of there.
L
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Now wants my help
Kind of like having a six pack at his side plus one in the fridge....
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Has she asked for your help? Or are you simply projecting on her how you wish things would turn out? Intervening in other's lives when they don't want me to, just because I think I know what's best has always backfired on me. Nowadays I wait to be asked, or I simply let people I care about know I will be there for them should they decide to ask. It's difficult sometimes to fight the urge to swoop in and start running the show the way I think it should be ran. But, it's crucial for my own peace and happiness that I resist that urge.
L
L
Oy!!!!
I have very little contact with her anymore. I don't really know the person she has grown into during the almost three years she's been gone.
I won't intervene, as we are estranged.
I will see her for Christmas and I will tell her that I love her and I am here for her if she ever wants to talk or has any questions, and that I'll be praying for her and the baby and if she needs anything she has my number, that I'll always help her as much as I am able to.
I feel like I failed her. Like if I could have been stronger, could have put up with more of the bad, things would have been different for her.
I remember so clearly when she was three years old, we were on a walk and she took my hand as we walked, then she asked me if I could be her mommy and could she call me mommy.
I love the kid like my own, been in her life since she was 8 months old as a mom to her and its so hard to stand back at a distance now and just watch.
Can't make sense out of crazy.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the Bluegrass, Baby!
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
Of course he wants your help, StrongerWoman. He wants to keep you in the game. It makes me wonder if things have soured between him and the new girlfriend. Or perhaps he feels more comfy keeping two enablers at arm's length in case one fails to enable him.
Kind of like having a six pack at his side plus one in the fridge....
Kind of like having a six pack at his side plus one in the fridge....
He took his son for a trip to a concert festival this weekend to NC. When he left he called to tell me he was getting on the road and ended with , "bye babe, I love you." To which I just sighed and he said "its okay, you don't have to say it."
Then he calls to tell me he's back and that he took our wedding picture and taped it to the dash board so he could take me with him on the trip.
:wtf2
He's totally Bipolar.
the girl can't help it
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: splendraville
Posts: 5,599
Originally Posted by FormerDoormat
Kind of like having a six pack at his side plus one in the fridge....
I know the drama is really getting to you (((((((SW))))))) You are so close to turning the corner and he knows it what better way to try and suck you back in than with the kids.
You will be showing them a better way by not being taken back in. I am pulling for ya dear and saying a little prayer right now too...
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Originally Posted by strongerwoman
Yeah, he's so messed up.
He took his son for a trip to a concert festival this weekend to NC. When he left he called to tell me he was getting on the road and ended with , "bye babe, I love you." To which I just sighed and he said "its okay, you don't have to say it."
Then he calls to tell me he's back and that he took our wedding picture and taped it to the dash board so he could take me with him on the trip.
:wtf2
He's totally Bipolar.
He took his son for a trip to a concert festival this weekend to NC. When he left he called to tell me he was getting on the road and ended with , "bye babe, I love you." To which I just sighed and he said "its okay, you don't have to say it."
Then he calls to tell me he's back and that he took our wedding picture and taped it to the dash board so he could take me with him on the trip.
:wtf2
He's totally Bipolar.
L
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Then he calls to tell me he's back and that he took our wedding picture and taped it to the dash board so he could take me with him on the trip.
Yield beautiful changes
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Location: A home filled with love
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Originally Posted by strongerwoman
Then he calls to tell me he's back and that he took our wedding picture and taped it to the dash board so he could take me with him on the trip.
I think this is sad and manipulative.
Take care, SW.
-TC
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