I Need Input From The Other Side Of This Issue Please
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
I Need Input From The Other Side Of This Issue Please
Hi Folks,
I SWEAR I'm not being an attention *****, but I posted this thread in the forum for those in addiction, or getting treatment. Now I seriously need input from the "friends and family of". This is about my drunken ex bf/current good friend/want him to be my future husband. Before I post the post, can I just say that it's not some psycho need to be co-dependent on him, it's a true, God-inspired need to love him. But I've had it up to "here", not because of the drinking, but the toxic self-destructiveness of it all, and his sick need to "test my love and limits" like the former abused child that he is. I was abused, so I know what it is to be that toxic person, to be so selfish and self absorbed, to test people to the point of no return, because you can't accept love, and you don't know what it is, and you don't trust it. I know that pain, that journey to health, and I know what it is alienate people to the point of no return. I don't want him to do that to me, but in my mind, I'm "this close" to calling it a day with him, because I have my own problems. I UNDERSTAND that I can't save him, and IT'S NOT MY JOB.
This is about a man that I love. I don't even know why at this point (says my intellect).
You know what folks, he's not the sterotypical addicted "monster". Actually, and not to sound cliche, but I swear to God if it weren't for his addiction, he'd be perfect for me. That sums him up, in his sober state. When he's drunk, well, he's a drunken @ss.
We don't live together (thank goodness). You know, (and but of COURSE) 98 percent of the drama we've had since we've met, is his addiction, and how it effects him.
You know, now, I'm at the point in which I told him he could be in my life, but NOT DRUNK. I've tried to set boundaries for myself, and I told him not to even call me drunk. He himself said that if he calls me drunk, just hang up on him.
What happened tonight, he called me drunk! And for the most ******** reason. (Is there EVER a good reason?) He's broke, so being a modern woman, I offered to treat us to an afternoon out, with lunch. I'm kinda broke too, but I had a little extra, and I wanted us to get back to having fun. Even when he's sober, we have the super-deep conversations, or he's hanging over my house. I wanted us to just get back to having a plain ole simple good time of window shopping (since we both like to do that) and simple lunch. Simple right? OF COURSE NOT!!!!
First of all, he turned the tables, and determined to get money to take ME out. Fine by me. But tonight, I realized after he wasn't able to borrow money, that this was about him trying to compete with me financially, and he failed. He's mad because last week, I took us to coffee, and then bought myself breakfast takeout, but not him (I KNOW, THAT WAS SELFISH OF ME). I didn't realize till much later, that I hurt his pride as a man. Hell, I would have been hurt a bit, it was inconsiderate. Yeah, part of me says he should "man up", but I know how important pride is to a man. That's just the way it is, right guys?
So, because he's a self-pitying, self destructive hot-mess, and because his pride got hurt, and because he's sick, he goes to a friend to borrow money. I already know there will be beer involved. Then, he calls me drunk. And I did hang up on him. Then there was that not too distant feeling (cause it's been a few weeks since the last drunk dial) of toxic residue. Then I got pissed, because I can't hang with him tomorrow. I don't want to see him with that toxic cloud hanging over us/ME!
You know what folks, it's not even about the drinking anymore, it's about his toxic need to self-destruct, and his need to test me. The funny thing is, although I've never been an addict, I relate all too well to the self destructive tendencies. He is me up to 2002. I tested and pushed people to the limits. And it got to where by the time I "got" it, and tried to make amends, those people were SOOOOOOOO over me. There was just a wall of apathy, and resentment and I had to deal with it.
I don't want him to feel the pain of that regret. But more to the point, I don't want to lose all that greatness. I feel like if I cut the cord, I'll throw away a man that might be my future soulmate.
But more to the point, I TRULY believe in him. I belive that when he overcomes this, if he overcomes this, that he will be a great man. He's too talented, and intelligent (if not smart). He amazes me with his talents and thoughts. He's changed my view of addicts forever. But as my screen names implies, there's still lots I need to learn.
Am I making sense folks? Please give me your input as people who are in the battle. Do I deal with "sober him", or throw the "baby out with the bathwater"?
I SWEAR I'm not being an attention *****, but I posted this thread in the forum for those in addiction, or getting treatment. Now I seriously need input from the "friends and family of". This is about my drunken ex bf/current good friend/want him to be my future husband. Before I post the post, can I just say that it's not some psycho need to be co-dependent on him, it's a true, God-inspired need to love him. But I've had it up to "here", not because of the drinking, but the toxic self-destructiveness of it all, and his sick need to "test my love and limits" like the former abused child that he is. I was abused, so I know what it is to be that toxic person, to be so selfish and self absorbed, to test people to the point of no return, because you can't accept love, and you don't know what it is, and you don't trust it. I know that pain, that journey to health, and I know what it is alienate people to the point of no return. I don't want him to do that to me, but in my mind, I'm "this close" to calling it a day with him, because I have my own problems. I UNDERSTAND that I can't save him, and IT'S NOT MY JOB.
This is about a man that I love. I don't even know why at this point (says my intellect).
You know what folks, he's not the sterotypical addicted "monster". Actually, and not to sound cliche, but I swear to God if it weren't for his addiction, he'd be perfect for me. That sums him up, in his sober state. When he's drunk, well, he's a drunken @ss.
We don't live together (thank goodness). You know, (and but of COURSE) 98 percent of the drama we've had since we've met, is his addiction, and how it effects him.
You know, now, I'm at the point in which I told him he could be in my life, but NOT DRUNK. I've tried to set boundaries for myself, and I told him not to even call me drunk. He himself said that if he calls me drunk, just hang up on him.
What happened tonight, he called me drunk! And for the most ******** reason. (Is there EVER a good reason?) He's broke, so being a modern woman, I offered to treat us to an afternoon out, with lunch. I'm kinda broke too, but I had a little extra, and I wanted us to get back to having fun. Even when he's sober, we have the super-deep conversations, or he's hanging over my house. I wanted us to just get back to having a plain ole simple good time of window shopping (since we both like to do that) and simple lunch. Simple right? OF COURSE NOT!!!!
First of all, he turned the tables, and determined to get money to take ME out. Fine by me. But tonight, I realized after he wasn't able to borrow money, that this was about him trying to compete with me financially, and he failed. He's mad because last week, I took us to coffee, and then bought myself breakfast takeout, but not him (I KNOW, THAT WAS SELFISH OF ME). I didn't realize till much later, that I hurt his pride as a man. Hell, I would have been hurt a bit, it was inconsiderate. Yeah, part of me says he should "man up", but I know how important pride is to a man. That's just the way it is, right guys?
So, because he's a self-pitying, self destructive hot-mess, and because his pride got hurt, and because he's sick, he goes to a friend to borrow money. I already know there will be beer involved. Then, he calls me drunk. And I did hang up on him. Then there was that not too distant feeling (cause it's been a few weeks since the last drunk dial) of toxic residue. Then I got pissed, because I can't hang with him tomorrow. I don't want to see him with that toxic cloud hanging over us/ME!
You know what folks, it's not even about the drinking anymore, it's about his toxic need to self-destruct, and his need to test me. The funny thing is, although I've never been an addict, I relate all too well to the self destructive tendencies. He is me up to 2002. I tested and pushed people to the limits. And it got to where by the time I "got" it, and tried to make amends, those people were SOOOOOOOO over me. There was just a wall of apathy, and resentment and I had to deal with it.
I don't want him to feel the pain of that regret. But more to the point, I don't want to lose all that greatness. I feel like if I cut the cord, I'll throw away a man that might be my future soulmate.
But more to the point, I TRULY believe in him. I belive that when he overcomes this, if he overcomes this, that he will be a great man. He's too talented, and intelligent (if not smart). He amazes me with his talents and thoughts. He's changed my view of addicts forever. But as my screen names implies, there's still lots I need to learn.
Am I making sense folks? Please give me your input as people who are in the battle. Do I deal with "sober him", or throw the "baby out with the bathwater"?
God's Kid
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,820
I can relate
Not only am I an alcoholic BUT all my relationships have been with alcoholics and addicts. Over the last year or so I've come to believe most of the men I have been involved with, are/were, like you said pretty nice people/men despite their addiction. Prior to that I labeled most of the 'monsters' too.
My last relationship was in some ways probably the most compatiable relationship I've had in my short life (I'm 30) but he was an addict (in denial) and I was too irrational to even think straight due to other health problems etc... So it didn't work out.
As I read your post I wondered if you've read that book, Woman Who Love Too Much. It's good reading and you may find it helpful. I think it is good reading as it takes the focus off our partners and puts it on us. I.e. What kind of person do I want to be? What kind of things do I enjoy doing? What nice things can I do for myself?
I like this because in a subtle way it implied I was powerless to change another person and can only change myself. Weird thing about that tho is that when I change, most people around me tend to change to.
Hope this helps.
My last relationship was in some ways probably the most compatiable relationship I've had in my short life (I'm 30) but he was an addict (in denial) and I was too irrational to even think straight due to other health problems etc... So it didn't work out.
As I read your post I wondered if you've read that book, Woman Who Love Too Much. It's good reading and you may find it helpful. I think it is good reading as it takes the focus off our partners and puts it on us. I.e. What kind of person do I want to be? What kind of things do I enjoy doing? What nice things can I do for myself?
I like this because in a subtle way it implied I was powerless to change another person and can only change myself. Weird thing about that tho is that when I change, most people around me tend to change to.
Hope this helps.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
My AH was a functioning alcoholic for many, many years. Three months ago he fell apart and his drinking became uncontrollable. This lead me to find this site and it is as if the scales fell from my eyes! Reading the stickies made me cry but it does help! Have a look at these ones in particular, they may help:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...potential.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...loved-him.html
Only you can say when you've had enough.
I struggled with the disease aspect of alcoholism too lilkim. Unlike cancer though, my AH will not get all the treatment he needs to cure it! I have compassion for him (hell, I still love him) but I cannot continue the way I'm going - I'll end up in an institution somewhere. At least the walls there will be padded unlike the walls I'm used to banging my head on!!!
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...potential.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...loved-him.html
Only you can say when you've had enough.
I struggled with the disease aspect of alcoholism too lilkim. Unlike cancer though, my AH will not get all the treatment he needs to cure it! I have compassion for him (hell, I still love him) but I cannot continue the way I'm going - I'll end up in an institution somewhere. At least the walls there will be padded unlike the walls I'm used to banging my head on!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: pa
Posts: 260
Sounds very similar to my AH.
Very intelligent,outstanding artist.
He had pictures he drew sent to museums in Japan.
He had a job making 65,000 dollars a year.
Now he is homeless........
It Is a progressive fatal disease for many.
Very intelligent,outstanding artist.
He had pictures he drew sent to museums in Japan.
He had a job making 65,000 dollars a year.
Now he is homeless........
It Is a progressive fatal disease for many.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
What I do is deal in the "what is" rather than the "what it could be" when I am are thinking about what I want and who I want to be involved with. Whether someone with whom I am involved in has great potential or not is kinda irrelevant. I accept people as they are, warts and all, and decide if what they are, who they are right now is something I want in my life.
Of course this is new behavior for me. Obviously having made the choice 5 yrs ago to marry an active alcoholic I wasn't operating at that level then. I fell in love with and married a man who I knew underneath was a good man, who had great potential and who had his drinking "under control" (or so I thought). Now I am newly divorced because he is what he is and I can't change him into the man I still see that he could be.
So my advice is to ask yourself if you want to cotinue to be involved with a man you describe as having toxic behaviors and who is causing you pain. Do not assume he will ever change, no matter how much potential you think he has. Answer your questions based on what is, not on what might be.
Of course this is new behavior for me. Obviously having made the choice 5 yrs ago to marry an active alcoholic I wasn't operating at that level then. I fell in love with and married a man who I knew underneath was a good man, who had great potential and who had his drinking "under control" (or so I thought). Now I am newly divorced because he is what he is and I can't change him into the man I still see that he could be.
So my advice is to ask yourself if you want to cotinue to be involved with a man you describe as having toxic behaviors and who is causing you pain. Do not assume he will ever change, no matter how much potential you think he has. Answer your questions based on what is, not on what might be.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by AWEDA 
Sounds very similar to my AH.
Very intelligent,outstanding artist.
He had pictures he drew sent to museums in Japan.
He had a job making 65,000 dollars a year.
Now he is homeless........
It Is a progressive fatal disease for many.
Very intelligent,outstanding artist.
He had pictures he drew sent to museums in Japan.
He had a job making 65,000 dollars a year.
Now he is homeless........
It Is a progressive fatal disease for many.
And sadly, I'm a person that will bash my head until things "makes sense", instead of walking away.
My therapist would say, it's because if I keep going over it, I might be able to change the outcome. Or something like that.
It doesn't make sense that, after being involved in a car accident (NOT HIS FAULT, HE WAS THE BACKSEAT PASSENGER), that almost took his life, he wears metal in his back, his whole spinal chord was damaged, he can walk, and function pretty normal, after coming back from THAT, he wants to die?!?
He wants to throw away his life?!?!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,290
Originally Posted by needtolearn
See, that's the part that doesn't make sense
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: life's road
Posts: 7
First of all, I'm very curious as to what happened with you in 2002 that ended your self-destructiveness. Can you share that story? My ah was also an abused child, and the abuse continued (emotionally/verbally) until the day(s) his parents died. So I know all to well the self-destructive and love/limit testing behavior you talk about.
As for me and my ah, I don't know if it was a bottom he hit, but he had really made an a$$ of himself at a friends b-day party for all the world to see. Up till then, I think it was easy for him to deny, because I was usually the brunt of the "bad" behavior when noone else was there to see. But now, the world saw what I'd been seeing for quite sometime, and he couldn't "hide" it anymore.
I've been with ah for half my life, a stay-at-home mom for the last 12 years, (yeah, try finding a job with no college and out of the workforce for that long!) and I finally made it clear to him that I would not live like this anymore, and I wouldn't allow our kids to be exposed to this. If his drinking continued the way it was, I would leave. I explained in great detail the plans I had set if that was the case. I finally got up the courage to set my boundries and enforce consequences. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I couldn't imagine life without him (sober, he's wonderful). But I finally reached the point where I'd had enough. I couldn't change him. I could only change me and my environment and my quality of life. His change was up to him. His choice was laid out clear for him to make.
You don't want him to live with the pain of regret. Of course you don't. You obviously love him and want to protect him from that pain. But who protected you from that pain? If someone tried 10 years ago, would you have let them? It makes me think of my kids. If I could, I would protect them from all the pain in the world; I love them more than life itself. But I can't. There is just some pain we all have to experience to learn and grow as people.
I wish you the best. Sounds like you have a bit of a tough road ahead of you. Remember to stay true to yourself no matter where you go in life. Sometimes things make no sense, and we just have to accept them. Otherwise, we might drive ourselves crazy trying to make sense out of the senseless.
As for me and my ah, I don't know if it was a bottom he hit, but he had really made an a$$ of himself at a friends b-day party for all the world to see. Up till then, I think it was easy for him to deny, because I was usually the brunt of the "bad" behavior when noone else was there to see. But now, the world saw what I'd been seeing for quite sometime, and he couldn't "hide" it anymore.
I've been with ah for half my life, a stay-at-home mom for the last 12 years, (yeah, try finding a job with no college and out of the workforce for that long!) and I finally made it clear to him that I would not live like this anymore, and I wouldn't allow our kids to be exposed to this. If his drinking continued the way it was, I would leave. I explained in great detail the plans I had set if that was the case. I finally got up the courage to set my boundries and enforce consequences. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I couldn't imagine life without him (sober, he's wonderful). But I finally reached the point where I'd had enough. I couldn't change him. I could only change me and my environment and my quality of life. His change was up to him. His choice was laid out clear for him to make.
You don't want him to live with the pain of regret. Of course you don't. You obviously love him and want to protect him from that pain. But who protected you from that pain? If someone tried 10 years ago, would you have let them? It makes me think of my kids. If I could, I would protect them from all the pain in the world; I love them more than life itself. But I can't. There is just some pain we all have to experience to learn and grow as people.
I wish you the best. Sounds like you have a bit of a tough road ahead of you. Remember to stay true to yourself no matter where you go in life. Sometimes things make no sense, and we just have to accept them. Otherwise, we might drive ourselves crazy trying to make sense out of the senseless.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hi there needtolearn, and pleased to "meet" you 
My ex-wife was incredibly succesful. She was part of a team that would hunker down for 5 years and build an entire hospital. She was in charge of designing and writing the _entire_ set of "policies and procedures" that direct the day to day operations. She had both a photographic memory and a brilliant mind that could simplify and organize the most complex medical procedures.
On top of that she was an acomplished stock broker, a very talented pianist, a fabulous artist _and_ a retired super model who still had an active fan club. Oh yes, and she was horribly crippled by arthritis, which didn't stop her from raising a child on her own.
She was the most amazingly talented and courageous woman I've ever known.
Unfortunately, the last few years of our marriage she was also addicted to pain pills.... and married men.
No, it doesn't make sense that she wanted to throw it all way for an addiction. No sense at all. However, one thing I have learned during my own recovery, is that there was a _second_ person in that marriage who wasn't making any sense. Me.
Yours truly had a blossoming career as an artist, I was the other half to that great stock broker company, I was rocking in the real estate biz and going like gang-busters with a small marketing firm. Why was I willing to throw it all away for a woman that _used_ to be wonderful???
Why could I not let go of someone who was spending every minute of her day running around with other guys, getting fired from jobs, and treating me like I was furniture ??? I was _not_ taking any kind of drugs, so I had no excuse for my own sense-less behavior.
For me it was plain ol' pride and low self-esteem. Nothing more complicated than that. I was hanging on to the memory of what had once been, and the hopes of what would never be. How sad.
Today I have learned from this program of recovery. I deserve someone who will be a true partner in life, who I can give 100% of _me_ and get back the same. I don't have to settle for what was, or what I fantasize. Today I am the best person I can be, and I'm having the most wonderful life enjoying what the "Higher Power" has placed before me. I have a very nice job doing what I love, a charming little condo, tons of good friends, and I'm even dating again. Dating a lady who treats me wonderful and doesn't run around.
Ok, so life isn't perfect. I have the usual share of problems and challenges. It's not perfect, but today my life _makes sense_. My choices and actions are healthy, positive and _sensible_. People no longer look at me and wonder why I put up with that loony of a wife. _I_ no longer look at me and wonder.
Needtolearn, take a little time to read thru all the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum. Keep on reading and tossing out questions. All this addiction stuff takes a while to sink in and figure out, so give yourself a little space and don't hit that brick wall quite so hard
Mike
Originally Posted by needtolearn
See, that's the part that doesn't make sense... He wants to throw away his life?!?!
On top of that she was an acomplished stock broker, a very talented pianist, a fabulous artist _and_ a retired super model who still had an active fan club. Oh yes, and she was horribly crippled by arthritis, which didn't stop her from raising a child on her own.
She was the most amazingly talented and courageous woman I've ever known.
Unfortunately, the last few years of our marriage she was also addicted to pain pills.... and married men.
No, it doesn't make sense that she wanted to throw it all way for an addiction. No sense at all. However, one thing I have learned during my own recovery, is that there was a _second_ person in that marriage who wasn't making any sense. Me.
Yours truly had a blossoming career as an artist, I was the other half to that great stock broker company, I was rocking in the real estate biz and going like gang-busters with a small marketing firm. Why was I willing to throw it all away for a woman that _used_ to be wonderful???
Why could I not let go of someone who was spending every minute of her day running around with other guys, getting fired from jobs, and treating me like I was furniture ??? I was _not_ taking any kind of drugs, so I had no excuse for my own sense-less behavior.
For me it was plain ol' pride and low self-esteem. Nothing more complicated than that. I was hanging on to the memory of what had once been, and the hopes of what would never be. How sad.
Today I have learned from this program of recovery. I deserve someone who will be a true partner in life, who I can give 100% of _me_ and get back the same. I don't have to settle for what was, or what I fantasize. Today I am the best person I can be, and I'm having the most wonderful life enjoying what the "Higher Power" has placed before me. I have a very nice job doing what I love, a charming little condo, tons of good friends, and I'm even dating again. Dating a lady who treats me wonderful and doesn't run around.
Ok, so life isn't perfect. I have the usual share of problems and challenges. It's not perfect, but today my life _makes sense_. My choices and actions are healthy, positive and _sensible_. People no longer look at me and wonder why I put up with that loony of a wife. _I_ no longer look at me and wonder.
Needtolearn, take a little time to read thru all the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum. Keep on reading and tossing out questions. All this addiction stuff takes a while to sink in and figure out, so give yourself a little space and don't hit that brick wall quite so hard
Mike
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
See, that's the part that doesn't make sense
By the end of '79 I was living on the streets of Hollyweird and would do so for 1 1/2 years, ending up in early June of '81 at the ER of Olive View Hospital in Van Nuys dying. Yes I did. They gave up. However, it was not my time and even though the ER Dr was writing the TOD on my chart my heart decided to start on its own.
I will tell you that YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND unless you have felt the absolute total control that alcohol and/or drugs can have over ones body.
You see Alcohol was MY MASTER. My whole life evolved around, how much I had left, how was I going to get more, where was I going to stash more so I didn't have to share, etc etc
Trying to figure HIM out will only drive YOU crazy. Trying to fix HIM will really drive YOU crazy.
The only person you can change, or fix, or improve is YOU. Unfortunately, he will have to reach his bottom in his time and on his terms. Interventions only work when the individual is ready.
I have come to understand not only from my own journey in recovery, but with working with others, (yes I have been continuously sober and clean since that day in early June) that the peeps I attract to me are a reflection of MY INSIDES not my outsides. Thus when I am attracting 'toxic' people, it's time for me, one more time, to start looking within me to see where I am going astray.
Alanon can truly help you to learn how to set 'Boundaries' and stick to them. It will also help you learn how to make The 3 C's:
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
Part of your daily mantra.
You will also learn how to use Acceptance, Patience, and Tolerance to your advantage.
J M H O
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing, we do care very much!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Originally Posted by needtolearn
And sadly, I'm a person that will bash my head until things "makes sense", instead of walking away.
Then I hope you have a lot of time on your hands, and a good helmet, because with alcoholics you can bash your head until it's bloody and the wall comes crumbling down, and it still won't "make sense."
Ever.
My sister was a film executive, making multiples of six figures. She was brilliant, funny, pretty, and had the world by the tail. Within a handful of years, despite all the love and care people could give her, she had lost everything, lived on the streets, and drank herself to death.
It's never going to make sense. He is making choices right now that you cannot control. You can either choose to be with him the way he IS, or you can decide that life with a self-destructive, self-pitying, competitive, addicted man is not what you want for yourself, no matter how much "potential" he has.
They ALL have potential. Despite the fact that they lie, manipulate, are broke and irresponsible, they're also brilliant and intelligent and we want to be with them forever, etc. Our brains are very clear that this isn't the person for us, but we are somehow convinced he is, until ten years later when we look back and think, "jeez, what was I thinking?????? oh, wait, I wasn't."
It doesn't change a thing. They are what they are.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wales
Posts: 523
Hi Needtolearn glad your here. There's not much that i can add to all the replies youve already had, I think the best advise is not to look at who they could be, but look at who they are now.
My xab was a brilliant semi pro footballer, and was a champion high board diver (could still do a double somersault aged 46) was a lovely generous man when sober. He was my soul mate.
You notice a lot of WAS in that sentence!!
Today he is alone, not working, has lost his friends, his family avoids him, lost the love of his life (that was me apparently), in trouble with the law, in debt and the list goes on and on.
Was i special enough for him too stop drinking, hell no im not that powerful.
Im the helping kind of girl, i'm uncomfortable with anyones pain and feel the urge to save people from themselves. i am CODEPENDANT. My own problems go on the back burner, other peoples problems are my priority.
So it ends up that he is not the only one with an addiction. I was addicted to him and his problems. Did i love him? oh yes very much, but soon found out that love is no cure for this disease.
I found this site and with the advice and guidance from my friends here i turned MY life around. I hope that you will too.
Mair x
My xab was a brilliant semi pro footballer, and was a champion high board diver (could still do a double somersault aged 46) was a lovely generous man when sober. He was my soul mate.
You notice a lot of WAS in that sentence!!
Today he is alone, not working, has lost his friends, his family avoids him, lost the love of his life (that was me apparently), in trouble with the law, in debt and the list goes on and on.
Was i special enough for him too stop drinking, hell no im not that powerful.
Im the helping kind of girl, i'm uncomfortable with anyones pain and feel the urge to save people from themselves. i am CODEPENDANT. My own problems go on the back burner, other peoples problems are my priority.
So it ends up that he is not the only one with an addiction. I was addicted to him and his problems. Did i love him? oh yes very much, but soon found out that love is no cure for this disease.
I found this site and with the advice and guidance from my friends here i turned MY life around. I hope that you will too.
Mair x
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by Barbara52
Nope, it doesn't make sense.Trying to apply reason and rationality to irrational behaviors and choices doesn't make senses wither and used to drive me crazy too. I had to get to the point where I accepted that my xAH was truly irrational, that there was no reasoning with his addiction to alcohol. Addiction is just not a rational behavior.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
Hi there needtolearn, and pleased to "meet" you
No, it doesn't make sense that she wanted to throw it all way for an addiction. No sense at all. However, one thing I have learned during my own recovery, is that there was a _second_ person in that marriage who wasn't making any sense. Me.
People no longer look at me and wonder why I put up with that loony of a wife. _I_ no longer look at me and wonder.
Mike
No, it doesn't make sense that she wanted to throw it all way for an addiction. No sense at all. However, one thing I have learned during my own recovery, is that there was a _second_ person in that marriage who wasn't making any sense. Me.
People no longer look at me and wonder why I put up with that loony of a wife. _I_ no longer look at me and wonder.
Mike
Thanks for being gracious enough to share this, all I can say is WOOOOOWWW!
Bet you said that yourself, huh?
I will be tossing out more thoughts questions, there are so many. One big thing that I have learned, is that when you are a codie, there is a recovery process that you have to go through too. Read the following post, as I reply to Discovery's question. I will share my story briefly.
Thanks so much.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by laurie6781
I have come to understand not only from my own journey in recovery, but with working with others, (yes I have been continuously sober and clean since that day in early June) that the peeps I attract to me are a reflection of MY INSIDES not my outsides. Thus when I am attracting 'toxic' people, it's time for me, one more time, to start looking within me to see where I am going astray.
Your quote that I posted really hit me, because I knew that already, but it's good to hear it from someone else. And I have questioned over and over why I attract the people that I do, as good hearted of a person that I am. The problem is...emotionally complicated to post here, but I am learning boundaries even now, and that I don't have to look for love (romantic, friendship, etc) at any cost, and CERTAINLY not at the cost of my own self respect, and dignity.
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 66
In Response To Destiny's Inquiry...What Changed For Me
This is a long read; please forgive me, but I wanted to answer the question as best I could. This will answer a couple of questions asked of me. I do hope it will help a future reader as well, somehow.
Like I mentioned before, although I'm not an addict, I grew up with addicts. I can say that addiction has been part of my bio-family for 25 or so years, but thinking back on childhood experiences, the alcohol and drugs have always been there, it's just the first rehab experience in my family didn't happen until 1985, when I was 13. Let me also add, that looking back, the addictions were just icing on the proverbial cake, if you will. There was always neglect, verbal and emotional abuse, parents fighting, parents partying and leaving me to raise my younger brothers. The first time they left us alone, I was only 6 years old. Yes, this is true.
I'm the oldest child in my family, and I was a good, responsible girl. I had no choice. There was this weird duality in my family; despite how messed up and selfish my parents were, we/I had to be good, represent well, do well in school and at home, be a "lady", etc. (no, we weren't rich or well off in the least, just good breeding).
I couldn't possibly post, or know how to post all the years of teenaged hell, living the duality at home. I will say that I created my own world; a world of school, after school work, dating my bf of the moment, and hanging out downtown on the weekend (I'm from a big city).
Anyway, you know, I wasn't prepared for life. I did the best I could, but at 18 I just kind of moved out into the world. I wasn't guided out. My parents were busy inventing new ways to hit rock bottom at this point, and separated.
I was a very damaged, angry, confused, ill-preparedd for life young woman. I didn't know there was something wrong with me. Nobody knew what was wrong with me, but everyone seemed to know it was SOMETHING. Some wanted no parts of it. I was gossiped about alot (oh yeah, I joined the military during this time !?!). I didn't fit into things. I had mood swings. I had anti-social behavior. I didn't have labels for it then. I just was so angry, and sad. I would cry out at night from the loneliness. This was during my 20's, in the 90s. For most of the 90's I didn't know where my parents were. It turns out they were those homeless people you see on park benches, in jail, etc. My mother told me later she has even slept in dumpsters!
I was heavily involved in church from age 23 to my late 20s. The church itself was toxic, but that's another story. Point is, for all my toxic behavior, and unmanaged depression and anxiety, there were people who tried to love me. They tried to guide me (as much as they could, not understanding what was wrong with me, and not being qualified to help me)
You know, the long and short of it is, I was a sweet, dynamic, talented, sprited, brave, but TOXIC person. The saddest thing for me, was that I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me, or why. I was self-centered, and entitled. I thought the world owed me a "pass" because of my abuse and subsequent loneliness. I didn't literally had no clue about boundaries; emotional, or with personal property, financial loans, etc. For all of this toxicidity, I REALLY MEANT NO HARM. I was just so messed up, I hurt people without meaning too, or realizing that I did.
I got to a place in life in 2002, where I had come back to the city that I live in now (not my hometown). I actually had moved for a year back to my hometown/city. I literally realized how far I had come in life. I literally escaped my past. I made it on my own in my new home city, half way across the country. I felt so grateful and blessed. I realized the friends that I had , treated me BETTER than family, and how poorly I had treated them. I realized how many people saw potential in me, and how I had let them down. I realized that the world didn't owe me a DAMNED THING. Yes, I had some hard breaks in life. Yes others made a mess of me, but I had to clean it up. I had no right to bring others down with my crap! I realized most of all, that I didn't think the things that I did, or failed to do mattered, BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK I MATTERED!!!
But I realized these things too late for my old friends. Like I said, most of them were sooooooooooo over it. There was so much anger, lack of forgiveness. Instead of being welcomed back, I got a mixture of people trying to work through their apprehension, to best friends who had turned on me, and incited others against me. There were people I had called to let know I was back in town, and they woudn't return my call. There were a couple of people who saw me out at stores, and glared in rage at me! I was personae non-grata. I can't tell you how much that hurt.
I still feel the consequences. I decided to look up someone who had been on my heart for years, but I was too afraid to look her up. I found her in the white pages. I called her. She's not called me back. It's been 7 years since the last email I sent her, or that we had contact, and I guess I STILL leave a bad taste in her mouth.
As a matter of fact, last year, I saw a lady on the bus, that I had lived with briefly for a summer. In short, I behaved deplorably to her. She tensed up when she saw me. I went straight to the back of the bus, and I told her I was so very sorry about how I treated her, and that I'm a totally different person now, and I hoped that some day she would forgive me. I saw her a few weeks later at the grocery store. She was still pissed. She didn't believe me, or wasn't ready to forgive.
You know, I've learned so much about how the abuse, and my parents addiction hurt me. I'm 36 now. I'm a different person now. I have a heart. I always did, but it was so calloused. I was so out of touch. Now, I have empathy, and consideration. I'm horrified at who I used to be, but I've forgiven myself for it.
So dear readers, you can understand why I would not want someone to experience the pain of loss, and regrets. I know what it is to be "damaged goods", and to alienate people. It's beautiful to have people who love you when you are unloveable. It's a precious commodity to have! I didn't want that for him, but at the same time, it was those moments of utter solitude/abandonment that made me "get" it. Also, it's because of how my parent's addictions, and abuses damaged me, that I see I need recovery just as much as they do.
P.S. As part of my recovery, and very sadly, my parents are no longer in my life. I've tried all that I could with them. They refuse to respect me, they can't and won't relate to me as an individual, or adult. I'm at peace with my decision on this.
Like I mentioned before, although I'm not an addict, I grew up with addicts. I can say that addiction has been part of my bio-family for 25 or so years, but thinking back on childhood experiences, the alcohol and drugs have always been there, it's just the first rehab experience in my family didn't happen until 1985, when I was 13. Let me also add, that looking back, the addictions were just icing on the proverbial cake, if you will. There was always neglect, verbal and emotional abuse, parents fighting, parents partying and leaving me to raise my younger brothers. The first time they left us alone, I was only 6 years old. Yes, this is true.
I'm the oldest child in my family, and I was a good, responsible girl. I had no choice. There was this weird duality in my family; despite how messed up and selfish my parents were, we/I had to be good, represent well, do well in school and at home, be a "lady", etc. (no, we weren't rich or well off in the least, just good breeding).
I couldn't possibly post, or know how to post all the years of teenaged hell, living the duality at home. I will say that I created my own world; a world of school, after school work, dating my bf of the moment, and hanging out downtown on the weekend (I'm from a big city).
Anyway, you know, I wasn't prepared for life. I did the best I could, but at 18 I just kind of moved out into the world. I wasn't guided out. My parents were busy inventing new ways to hit rock bottom at this point, and separated.
I was a very damaged, angry, confused, ill-preparedd for life young woman. I didn't know there was something wrong with me. Nobody knew what was wrong with me, but everyone seemed to know it was SOMETHING. Some wanted no parts of it. I was gossiped about alot (oh yeah, I joined the military during this time !?!). I didn't fit into things. I had mood swings. I had anti-social behavior. I didn't have labels for it then. I just was so angry, and sad. I would cry out at night from the loneliness. This was during my 20's, in the 90s. For most of the 90's I didn't know where my parents were. It turns out they were those homeless people you see on park benches, in jail, etc. My mother told me later she has even slept in dumpsters!
I was heavily involved in church from age 23 to my late 20s. The church itself was toxic, but that's another story. Point is, for all my toxic behavior, and unmanaged depression and anxiety, there were people who tried to love me. They tried to guide me (as much as they could, not understanding what was wrong with me, and not being qualified to help me)
You know, the long and short of it is, I was a sweet, dynamic, talented, sprited, brave, but TOXIC person. The saddest thing for me, was that I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me, or why. I was self-centered, and entitled. I thought the world owed me a "pass" because of my abuse and subsequent loneliness. I didn't literally had no clue about boundaries; emotional, or with personal property, financial loans, etc. For all of this toxicidity, I REALLY MEANT NO HARM. I was just so messed up, I hurt people without meaning too, or realizing that I did.
I got to a place in life in 2002, where I had come back to the city that I live in now (not my hometown). I actually had moved for a year back to my hometown/city. I literally realized how far I had come in life. I literally escaped my past. I made it on my own in my new home city, half way across the country. I felt so grateful and blessed. I realized the friends that I had , treated me BETTER than family, and how poorly I had treated them. I realized how many people saw potential in me, and how I had let them down. I realized that the world didn't owe me a DAMNED THING. Yes, I had some hard breaks in life. Yes others made a mess of me, but I had to clean it up. I had no right to bring others down with my crap! I realized most of all, that I didn't think the things that I did, or failed to do mattered, BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK I MATTERED!!!
But I realized these things too late for my old friends. Like I said, most of them were sooooooooooo over it. There was so much anger, lack of forgiveness. Instead of being welcomed back, I got a mixture of people trying to work through their apprehension, to best friends who had turned on me, and incited others against me. There were people I had called to let know I was back in town, and they woudn't return my call. There were a couple of people who saw me out at stores, and glared in rage at me! I was personae non-grata. I can't tell you how much that hurt.
I still feel the consequences. I decided to look up someone who had been on my heart for years, but I was too afraid to look her up. I found her in the white pages. I called her. She's not called me back. It's been 7 years since the last email I sent her, or that we had contact, and I guess I STILL leave a bad taste in her mouth.
As a matter of fact, last year, I saw a lady on the bus, that I had lived with briefly for a summer. In short, I behaved deplorably to her. She tensed up when she saw me. I went straight to the back of the bus, and I told her I was so very sorry about how I treated her, and that I'm a totally different person now, and I hoped that some day she would forgive me. I saw her a few weeks later at the grocery store. She was still pissed. She didn't believe me, or wasn't ready to forgive.
You know, I've learned so much about how the abuse, and my parents addiction hurt me. I'm 36 now. I'm a different person now. I have a heart. I always did, but it was so calloused. I was so out of touch. Now, I have empathy, and consideration. I'm horrified at who I used to be, but I've forgiven myself for it.
So dear readers, you can understand why I would not want someone to experience the pain of loss, and regrets. I know what it is to be "damaged goods", and to alienate people. It's beautiful to have people who love you when you are unloveable. It's a precious commodity to have! I didn't want that for him, but at the same time, it was those moments of utter solitude/abandonment that made me "get" it. Also, it's because of how my parent's addictions, and abuses damaged me, that I see I need recovery just as much as they do.
P.S. As part of my recovery, and very sadly, my parents are no longer in my life. I've tried all that I could with them. They refuse to respect me, they can't and won't relate to me as an individual, or adult. I'm at peace with my decision on this.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: iowa
Posts: 93
Reading your original post, at the top of this thread, reminded me of something someone I used to know said 20+ years ago. He was the 1st, best boyfriend I ever had - maybe I loved him too much. He had to go away to college out of state - to be a pilot, and I had my own college to go to. Everytime something bad happens in my life, I go back to thinking about him. I haven't seen him since 1986, haven't talked with him since 1989 but I still remember what he said when our time together was drawing to a close....
'If you love something,
Let it go.
If it comes back to you,
It's your's,
If it doesn't,
It was never meant to be.'
What you do is up to you, but reading your post just made me think of that.
Of course, now that I'm divorced from my AH of 13 years, and my life is slowly returning to seem like mine - I start thinking of that old friend again - and wondering what he's doing. Maybe he'll come back - but if not, it was never meant to be.
'If you love something,
Let it go.
If it comes back to you,
It's your's,
If it doesn't,
It was never meant to be.'
What you do is up to you, but reading your post just made me think of that.
Of course, now that I'm divorced from my AH of 13 years, and my life is slowly returning to seem like mine - I start thinking of that old friend again - and wondering what he's doing. Maybe he'll come back - but if not, it was never meant to be.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
I would argue that planning a future with someone you know is an alcoholic is the hallmark of a codependent and it's more a conscious decision to choose a lifestyle that is familiar to you (being that you were raised in an abusive addictive home) than it is a God-inspired need to love him.
The truth is this is a co-dependent need to fix him. If you're not attending Alanon meetings, I highly suggest you find a good one in your area. You would also benefit from reading Melody Beatty's book, Codependent No More and Toby Rice Drew's book "Getting Them Sober." They are both eye opening reads.
Here's to letting go of denial and to opening your eyes to the truth. Because ultimately, it's the truth that will set you free.
The truth is this is a co-dependent need to fix him. If you're not attending Alanon meetings, I highly suggest you find a good one in your area. You would also benefit from reading Melody Beatty's book, Codependent No More and Toby Rice Drew's book "Getting Them Sober." They are both eye opening reads.
Here's to letting go of denial and to opening your eyes to the truth. Because ultimately, it's the truth that will set you free.
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