WantsOut

Until 1973 the AMA and APA both said that homosexuality was an illness, so no, just cause some impressive people say something is true doesn't make it true.

M_in_SF

I saw the 1st episode and it was hard to watch Jeff Conaway because my mother is in a similar state due to her addictions, but is worse off than Jeff. She was an alcoholic and oxycontin/dilaudid addict and was in 2 comas as a result of her addictions. Somehow, she pulled out of both of them and is now a dialysis patient with brain damage. Luckily, she doesn't remember she's an addict & doesn't ask for drugs and alcohol. Witnessing all of that motivated me address my own addictions (I am primarily a food addict). I am in OA and have a very clean lifestyle. I cannot believe she's still alive, my stepsister said she should be in a "just say no to drugs" ad campaign.

kermit

Wow, so much has been said here. I thankyou for that. I also thank you fo rthe links.
So many of us have a different view on addiction, it seems that it is dependent on how long we are in OUR program and how or if we are working it. For me my mind has been opened up to just something else to think about. My X is a very sick person both mentaly and with addiction, for him I believe they go hand in hand. I have chose to have compasion, formyself, children and my ex. Hell is hell no matter if it is drug addiction alcohol addiction or if is a dissease I have developed ( i have Lupus and RA) if I don't have compasion I have no reason to live

Mr. Christian

com·pas·sion –noun
1. A feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.

ICU

According to my computer's thesaurus, it's antonym is coldness! Wow, the abruptness of that certainly opened my eyes. That's not a trait I wish to possess in my recovery!

karmakoma

Not watching, will not watch. The whole concept leaves a vary nasty taste in my mouth. I know how hard it is for me to make any kind of major behavioural/lifestyle change - I was a smoker and a recovering can't-function-unless-i-am-in-a-relationship-ic (with drama queen tendencies). I don't need to see rent-a-celebs on tv to have empathy for others doing the same. Believe me, giving up smoking was a massive eye opener, especially when I had "slips". I suddenly had a whole new understanding of the potential for hiding/lying/breath mints/sneaking/minimising aspects of the whole thing.

As for the whole disease argument - I can't for the life of me see how it matters to me what it's called. I am not a professional in the field, nor am I an alcoholic. Even if I were still with my ex, it wouldn't matter because unless and until a person admits they have a problem and has a sincere desire to get help, I can do nothing but watch from the sidelines if I value my own sanity.

I liked Carol and Mr Christian's links a lot - thank you. Whilst the latter contained some spectacular leaps in logic, there was an awful lot of sense made in there too. And the Time article was one of the most sensible I have ever read on the subject.

Bottom line for me - I needed to spend more time on looking at MY stuff rather than his if I wanted to heal.

kermit

Mr C Your definition of Compassion hit it on the head for me. I have all these thing sfor my ex... He was physicaly, emotionaly, sexualy abused and his mother was a addict. He has mental illness and is geneticly(sp) f uped ( his mother was the result of two first cousins having children) this had him doomed, now I have to have my kids checked for any disorder. He did not ask to be born with this disease any more then you asked for brown hair. Yes he has done many horable things but he never physicaly hurt us, he chose to leave for the better of me and the kids having a better life. It has been painful and financialy a wreck, but I would much rather have that then him staying around and drunk. He did us a favor by leaving. I have compasion, my choice!

aztchr

The most important thing I've learned for myself is that I have a choice in accepting or not accepting someone else's behavior whether they have a disease or not.

karmakoma

Quite, aztchr.

Why does someone get a free pass to treat other people like crap? Or more importantly, why do some people give a free pass to others to allow them to treat them like crap?

I know why I did. That is at the heart of my recovery.

Mr B

On reflection, I think my capacity for compassion for XAGF has grown since I've come to fully accept that she's not going to stop drinking. While I was still embroiled in the thoughts of "If only I could get her to understand..." I went round in circles. I've been looking into Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, one of the tenets of which is that (paraphrased) one cannot hope to deal with a situation until one fully accepts the situation for what it really is. All the time I was engaged in trying to get her to move past her addiction, I wasn't accepting the reality of how serious her addiction is. Events over the last few months, added with the work I've been putting in to face up to what really is, have helped bring me to a point where I accept that she's alcoholic and I don't believe she has the emotional werewithall to change that. Once I accepted that I found it easier to take the emotional step back and view her situation a bit more dispassionately.

If she'd taken serious steps to deal with her alcoholism when social services first removed the kids from her care, it would be different (even if those steps hadn't been entirely successful yet). I'd have hope that, one day, she might make it. But, sadly, she didn't. Whatever hold alcohol has over her, it's more powerful than her desire to get her kids back. Knowing my own feelings for our children and what I'd do to maintain a relationship with her I simply cannot understand that but I have to accept that this is what it is. I don't know what her bottom is going to be or if she's ever going to reach it but it's going to have to be something even more powerful and destructive than her losing her children. Regardless of how badly she's treated me in the past, regardless of the path of destruction and empty bottles she's left behind her, I can't help but feel sad for her. Her head must be a desperately unhappy place to live in.

Mr B.

kelsh

I have a lot of doubts both ways...but it doesn't matter how rich or poor you are...or if you are black or white...if you are a professional or not...if you are male or female...if you are young or old...the disease of alcoholism is not a respector of any of this.

But yet, there are mitigating factors such as predisposition some say, I am, but how come one or two members of an extended family never drink or use drugs even if they are predisposed?

When I finally was able to get some help and stick with it to quit drinking, my father, brother, grandmother, grandfather, niece, nephew, & uncle had all quit drinking. My brother was the only one that started again after his ten year suspended sentence for an alcohol related felony was over.

Also, at the same time I quit drinking, I had a daughter (eleven years old) that was diagnosed with Juvenile Diabetes. We were both struggling with issues and finally we sat down together and discussed her diabetes and my alcoholism as diseases that would never go away but could be helped and kept in control.

We were laughing, crying, & hugging and that is when we both found some sort of acceptance for our separate disorders....diabetes & alcoholism + both of us were being treated for depression...another predisposition from our extended family.

I don't thinkk diabetes has an invisible line to pass over but alcoholism does. I do know that some people can have diabetes dormat in their system and a health issue, major life change, or whatever...can trigger the diabetes in a very sneaky way with the signs of weight loss or gain, excessive thirst, very noticable mood swings usually attributed to teenage "hormones" running loose.

My daughter had wet the bed twice & in my drunken fog something clicked because when the sheet dried...it was stiff...like a lot of starch or sugar? I took her to the doc and it was diabetes...she was hospitalized for a week to get things in some kind of control. I was in the same hospital about three months later for my detox that lasted a week.

I have watched Intervention for quite a while and in some aspects it appears to play on the whole families emotions which is what I believe...that the whole family is ill and sometimes there are other members of the family with some sort of addiction/illness whether it be eating, drinking, druging, or co-dependency.

I watched the Dr. Drew show the other night and was kinda/sorta upset about the withdrawal of the man who was crying out and in a wheel chair because he was so weakened from his withdrawal from many different drugs.
I heard Dr. Drew tell the attendent not to give this man a sedative...maybe because the show was being filmed???? I know they didn't use to give out drugs for detoxing but there weren't all the dangerous drugs so available. One hospital I worked in gave paraldahyde???....to detox a person in the hospital...but I don't know much more.

I was given Valium so didn't experience any withdrawals at all. I was so determined to get sober and stay sober but also so scared I might not be able to...! I really don't believe I would have wanted to be filmed when I was in detox or the in-patient treatment center or even the emotional health unit for my depression. People are not going to stop because they see someone else's misery or being sick all over themselves.

People will stop if they want to and will be willing to ask for help and follow through with the help. The person getting sober is the one that makes the decision...takes the necessary steps to get started...and finds a way to get support and this usually comes from someone who has been there and done that...also AA is What helped me help myself get sober & be able to stay sober. I believe we can get clean & sober if we really work hard to do so...
but I also believe there are many that want to be sober and clean but just can't get it...my son is one of them...is a quadraplegic from a failed suicide when drunk...so I just go with the flow and do the best I can for myself so I can help others. :ghug

My AA Sponsor, Irene, just called me and she is coming to town next weekend for an AA doings...so we will be going together...I am so excited!!!

kelsh

FormerDoormat

The day I stop feeling compassion for others who are hurting--whether by their own hand or due to outside forces--is the day I stop being human.

I was blessed with parents who loved me and my siblings unconditionally. I was blessed with a happy, healthy, care-free childhood and two parents who saw to my every need, who's whole lives revolved around their children and family. I was blessed with a comfortable home in a safe neighborhood, plenty of food to eat and clothes to wear. I went to sleep every night knowing that I was safe and secure and loved and nothing I did would change my parent's love for me. Life for me was easy.

I was truly blessed.

Others are not as fortunate as I was. They come from broken homes or have parents who were abusive, irresponsible, selfish, or addicts. They lived in poverty or filth or went to bed hungry. They were told they'd never amount to anything. They felt they had to earn love, or perhaps they believed they didn't deserve to be loved at all. They learned that life is hard.

Some people never learn how to live. They merely exist. Oftentimes, through no fault of their own. Whether a person is raised in a loving, safe environment or learned to do whatever it took to endure a nightmarish childhood happens by luck of the draw.

There some things in life where we have no choice and we have to make the best of it and do what's necessary to make it through the day. One area where I have a choice is compassion. I can take the easy way out and angrily claim that people get what they deserve or I can dig down deep and realize that people are a product of their environment and life isn't always fair. I can choose to see the person behind the disease or I can merely see an alcoholic.

Richard's life was hard. Mine was easy. Who am I to criticize his coping mechanisms when I never walked in his shoes? I'm glad that I was able to see the person behind the disease. I'm glad that I never lost compassion for him. Try as I might, I couldn't stop loving him. There was so much about him that was lovable but he just couldn't love himself, probably because for most of his life he was unloved. He tried to find love in a bottle, but it betrayed him, too.

At some point in their lives, alcoholics lose their ability to choose. Whether it begins with the first drink or the hundredth drink or whether it's a disease or not is immaterial. What matters is every day someone's son or daughter or sister or brother or husband or wife loses their life to alcoholism, and there but for the grace of God go I.

kermit

FD, I love you!

ICU

You said it so beautifully, FormerDoormat! You brought tears to my eyes.

In my opinion, if someone needs clarification on 'compassion', this is it!

I'd like to see this become a sticky!

karmakoma

FormerDoormat, that is a truly wonderful post and very much akin to my way of thinking. Especially this part - For me to demand (which I did frequently) that my ex give up his way of dealing with his "stuff" before he was ready was simply arrogant. IMHO, there may be healthier and more productive approaches than those he was (is) following, however it really is not my business to do anymore than share my experience and show through my actions that there are other ways. And sometimes that might have to be from afar. I know for certain that my way of living is not right for everyone, even those with whom I share a similar background, so how on earth would I know the best way for someone with a very different history to me?

I have compassion for my ex. Actually, I think everyone on this planet has aspects of their lives for which I can feel compassion. No-one goes through life without some kind of crap happening to them.

ElektrykEye

I think Dr. Drew told the attendant not to give him anything because (I think) the drugs they would give are drugs that he is already addicted to or because he wasn't sure what Jeff had taken and therefore did not know how the drugs would mix... it wasn't clear, but I did not get the impression that he wanted him to suffer. I thought he wanted him to medically detox without harming him or adding to his addiction in any way. Seems like he may have a history with Jeff and maybe he knows that Jeff will exaggerate in an effort to get drugs like valium or pain killers... who knows.

I saw Dr. Drew on another show (Chelsea Lately) and he talked about why they chose to film only celebrities. He said that initially, the plan had been to have a mixture of celebrities and regular people so that it would show that addiction is a disease that affects people no matter whether they're rich or poor, etc.. and that treatment would be the same. However, he said that when it came time to sitting down and talking with people about exactly what the show involved, he found that celebrities were already used to dealing with cameras and the intrusions of a reality show, whereas the "regular people" were overwhelmed and he wasn't sure they were really prepared to be on a show like that on camera as they tried to get clean and sober. He made it sound like in the end, he felt that it could do more harm than good for those who were not used to being filmed in their most vulnerable moments... made sense to me.

GiveLove

Nice. He neglects to mention that a show about ordinary addicts wouldn't draw even a tiny fraction of the audience, the buzz, or the advertising dollars. That's why there was never a "Lifestyles of the Middle Class and Anonymous," or an "MTV Cribs" about the guy who works at the library.

Non-public TV is about making money. Period. Compassion is a joke; it's sensational so you'll watch, talk about the show, and buy their sh*t.

No offense.....but since we're all sharing opinions here, those shows offend the hell out of me.

PaperDolls

What a great thread ... some wonderful things said here that make us all think.

Personally, I love these shows about addiction/recovery. I guess I find them a bit therapeutic. I usually (always) cry and it's good for me.
As far as the disease thing ..... I understand both thoughts on it and don't want to argue about it or pretend that my opinions are more right than someone else's ... but me, I don't care what you call it. It really doesn't matter. Addiction can and does create a path of destruction, sorrow, pain, suffering, sadness & death as it blows threw people's lives. Many of us here know that all too well.

An addict is an addict: celebrity or ordinary, rich or poor, black or white, man or woman, young or old ..... addiction does not discriminate.

GiveLove

You're right, Paper. And now that I'm down off my uppity high horse, I guess I can see how it might be therapeutic for some folkses. Thanks - off to pitch the networks on my new shows!

Pajarito

Former Doormat- I loved your post. You are so wise. Thank you so much. This is the reason I am here today.