FormerDoormat

For me the answer is because when I say "I love you" I mean it. I guess I just assumed that others do, too. I'm beginning to see that not only do I not show love for myself with action but because of that I don't require folks who claim they love me to prove it to me with action, either.

So my own words and those of others are meaningless if they aren't proven with action.

Pajarito

Ahhhh yes. I am responding to this first, because when STBXAH left me- about 2 months into it we had a conversation about him being miserable in his situation. I asked him if he was happy living on his own. No- he said- I'm sleeping on the floor- on a futon, eating macaroni and cheese every night, I have no web hook-up and no cable. Did he say he missed me or dd? No.

How did I manage to convince myself that this man loved me? Maybe- as my counselor has said- maybe he loved me in the only way he knew how- but it certainly wasn't enough for me. Now the question is- what exactly do I need when it comes to love? Great thread LTD- I'll be back! ;o)

Barbara52

Very true. xAH did love me to the best of his capability. His issues, whatever they may be, have led him to be emotionally damaged just as my issues led me to be emotionally damaged. I am glad that I am coming toward a greater understanding of how I am damaged and am working on repairing that damage. Maybe he will someday do the same for himself.

And nope, it wasn't enough for me.

LaTeeDa

Part of my recovery has involved trying to figure what love really is. I think in our society, we sometimes take our definition of love from books/movies/songs/TV, etc. I know whenever my ex would do something that made me angry, he would always try to "buy" his way out of it. Some flowers, jewelry, a card, a houseplant, whatever he happened to see when he was feeling guilty, he would buy and expect it to make everything okay. He never wanted to talk about the situation, hear my feelings, express his feelings, he just wanted to forget about it and wanted me to forget about it. And I used his guilt against him to get my way. As was mentioned, we were both loving each other the best we knew how.

The man I'm seeing now doesn't buy gifts to smooth over disagreements. He talks, he listens, he points out to me when I am not making sense, and he admits to me when he is confused or doesn't know how he feels. In other words, I feel that he cares about my feelings, my spiritual growth, my integrity, and my needs. And I have found that it is very easy for me to let him be who he is. Even when who he is isn't exactly who I want him to be.

Sometimes, I feel myself slipping into my old patterns. Like trying to guilt (manipulate) someone into doing what I want. It could be him, or my kids, or whoever. But, I usually catch myself before I go there.

So, my definition of love is changing--both ways. In how I show love to others, and what I interpret as love from others. And because of this, I'm finding that it's easier to show loving action for myself, as well. I still don't do it enough, but I'm getting there.

L

Pajarito

I'm a big believer in talking about feelings when it's right- as well as listening. STBXAH did not talk about his feelings- until he left 10 months ago. And then it was 3 hours of spewing hatred and blame at me for things that had happened months and years earlier- stuff I had no idea bothered him. I kept asking, WHAT happened? He obviously held a lot in- probably what led him to drink. However, in our marriage, I had also wanted to just talk about anything- the world, my dreams, his dreams, but we rarely had conversations like that. I remember thinking that I didn't really think of him as my "soul mate"- whatever THAT is! LOL. . . is that going to take this thread in a different direction? Is your SO your soul mate? Do you feel he/she has to be? Is there even such a thing? Can there be more than one? My brain hurts.

I guess my point is- my STBXAH and I slowly lost that connection of talking and expressing feeling, being receptive to each other's feelings. I wanted him to talk, but he wouldn't. And he didn't seem to give a hoot about mine. That is a huge need for me- without being able to connect over a good give/take conversation, there's nothing.

Barbara52

My first ex still harbors this crap and we've been divorced for 16 yrs now! He still hasn't dealt with his issues form back then! And alcohol wasn't involved at all.

Pajarito

I hope you try to have no contact with him. I also hope that in 16 years I'm not hearing the same things from STBXAH. I need to develop thicker skin w/him.

Barbara52

Only when absolutley necessary. We still both pay for my 19 yo's medical expenses and tuition. Getting him to pay what he owes is tiresome in the extreme. But such is life.

The ex and his wife often tried to control me (unbelievable I know) and still try to control our sons, 19 and 23. The 23 yo cut off all contact with his father this past Jan after ex and wife acted controlling one time too many. Sooner or later I suspect 19 yo son will do the same. It saddens me that they have such a poor or no relationship with their father but its not my problem. Its taken me a long time to where I can say that and really mean it though.

LaTeeDa

Don't even get me started on this, LOL. I tried online dating for a few months and I got to where I could categorize about 90% of the profiles just by reading them. They were either 1)looking for casual sex or 2)looking for a "soul mate." I was not looking for either!

As I said in one of my way earlier posts on this thread, I think love is transitory. Sure, it can last a lifetime, but it might not. It's not in my control. The old me would assume that if I felt love, it was going to last forever, and then be devastated when it didn't. Can you say insane???? The new me is simply grateful for whatever love I have in my life. My mission is to enjoy to the fullest whatever is happening in my life right now. If I worry and fret over what may or may not happen in the future, it takes away from the pleasure of today.

So, no, I do not believe in the "soul mate" theory. I believe that people come into our lives for a purpose. To teach us or help us grow. That "reason, season, lifetime" thing. I don't want to miss the lesson because I'm trying to force something.

L

LaTeeDa

Bumping for tallulah.
L

bookwyrm

This is such a powerful thread. Thanks for the bump.

tallulah

thank you LTD :ghug3

I don't know if my ex loved me. I thought I did but that was changed in a heartbeat. I will probably never know.

I do know that I loved him. That is all I need to know. I've been beating myself up a bit about being such (what I thought was) a niave fool. But I have to forgive myself.

I agree with the 'reason, season, lifetime' theory.

LaTeeDa

I was reading through some of my old posts today and came across this one. Seems an appropriate bump and reminder that we all have choices. We are not victims......

L

sandrawg

Yknow, my last email I sent to my exabf, I said this:

"I'm gonna be blunt. This isn't a f'ing game.

This drinking s*** isn't about fun and games, it's about slowly killing yourself...
...and I'm sorry that I ever participated in it. I love you AND myself too much to continue being a part of it, and that's why we are at where we're at."

I finally came to that realization - he is inherently suicidal; how else can you explain making the choice to continue to stay in active alcoholism, when you know how much it has hurt you and everyone you claim to care about?

I realized, I was nothing more than an obstacle to him in his quest to destroy himself and everything good in his life.

Don't I love myself enough to a) not allow his destructive tendencies to harm me and b) to not have to live with the guilt of helping him destroy himself by my enabling tendencies?

When we finally face the fact that there is no room in our lives for alcoholism and love, self-love OR love towards the alcoholic, we realize we have no choice but to walk away from it.

Alcoholism crowds TRUE love out!!! They cannot co-exist.

seekingcalm

This is a very helpful thread. I realized during my relationship with an active alcoholic that intimacy cannot exist when there is active alcoholism. It simply cannot. Alcoholics cannot let you get close; it is a threat to their addiction. I finally learned that my most important relationship is the one I have with myself. I used to think I could only be happy if he were sober. Now I know that my happiness cannot depend on anyone else. I love him, but so what? That doesn't always matter. And I've been a hopeless romantic my entire life. But I'm learning. Gotta love me first. Everything else just works better when I love me first.

Learn2Live

Thanks LTD. I love that website!

This is just so damn true.

Mataleao

I own all of my bad decisions....unfortunately, around February I found out that I am not quite finished making them.....Giant wake up call for me. *Working on that now.

I had a long conversation with my sister the other day as well, she is a big time active substance abuser, so it's very difficult to get her to OWN all of the things she's doing right now...(dating a married man)....OR getting her to understand anything about us both being "adult children"

LaTeeDa

Why do you feel it's your responsibility to get her to OWN anything or UNDERSTAND anything?

L

Mataleao

Oh, I don't feel that it's my responsibility, we have a long conversation maybe once every few months, everything is usually just hey, what's up....I was just trying to help her see that when she starts saying, "He keeps doing this to me" kind of stuff...I just put it out there, that no one can do anything to us that we don't allow. Just trying to help her see the dysfunctional patterns we both have in choosing relationships (our whole life) ..... I am well aware that she will do her thing until she moves on to the next one....I just try to give her something to think about, such as reality.

LaTeeDa

I understand. And really, that's all you can do. It's like shining a light into the darkness. The other person can choose to follow that light, or remain in the dark. It's their choice.

L