prodigal

Okay, I finally arrived at the beyond sick-and-tired point. I have seen four attorneys and they've pretty much told me to leave but not divorce AH at this point. Why? Because his health insurance will be needed until I get a full-time job that offers good coverage. Also, in a community property state, as soon as I file a divorce complaint, his salary ceases to be half mine. It boils down to my getting a job before I pursue legal action.

Here's the deal: next Thursday and Friday, AH will be out of town at a training program. I understand that U-Haul has a deal where, for a reasonable fee, moving guys will come in and put boxes and furniture in a U-Haul and place it in a storage container. So ... I spend all next Thursday packing and Friday have my stuff put in storage. Then I get in my car and don't look back.

I have enough money in my savings account to live on for about two months if I really tighten my belt. I would be going to Phoenix to get work - temp work, mopping floors, scrubbing toilets, anything.

I have struggled with this, but here goes ... I have over $500 in checks from our insurance company to cover some of the expenses for services provided by out-of-network providers during my hospital stay. The checks are made out to AH. I finally know his PIN number for his credit card. I know where he keeps his checkbook. The stuff I am considering is not exactly legal, to say the least. He has cut me off from funds - community property funds, I might add - for over two years now.

Two wrongs do NOT make a right, but I have a window of opportunity to head on down the road and get on with my life. AH pays the bare-bones minimum on my credit cards, which I am forced to use for car repairs, gas, even groceries at times! If I'm lucky, he'll toss about $400 a month at me to live on.

So tonight he gives me more b.s. about the money. The latest tale of woe is he doesn't know if we can make the mortgage this month. Yeah, right ... this guy has taken lying about who-has-da-dollah to an artform. Funny how he can always "afford" the $450-$500 a month for his booze, but now the mortgage is a challenge. Lies, lies, and more lies.

Opinions needed. I'm sticking my neck out, taking a risk, and gambling he won't try to track me down for getting a couple hundred bucks here and there from his funds.

REALLY, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION? Please be frank and upfront with me. I did not so much as take a penny from this man during his latest three-week bender. That doesn't justify what I'm contemplating now, but I'm to the point that his "donation" of a thousand bucks would help me and, NO, he will not give me the money to leave; not after chewing me out for having the nerve to take $20 from his wallet last month when I was running short!

DesertEyes

ummm.... if you are in a community property state, and you are legally married, and there was no prenuptial agreement, then all property and money belongs to _both_ of you.

Only a judge can figure out what belongs to who in a divorce. Check with any one of those four lawyers, they can give you the details.

Mike

prodigal

You're right about what belongs to who - leave it to the judge. In the meantime, the money in his checking account IS community property, since his salary is considered as such and it is directly deposited into the account. However, my name is not on the account. There's the challenge of getting him to sign a blank check. I believe my signing it would be considered forgery.

Of course, who's to say that the scribble that passes for his signature isn't really his??? I doubt he's gonna prosecute me for writing a check to myself ... not like I'm planning on taking more than half (which is legally mine anyway).

His credit card may make a trip to a nearby $$ machine for some "quick cash." No, not some huge cash advance, but a few hundred would help my cause.

Maybe I'm sweating this too much. After all, Tina Turner left Ike with no more than $20 in her pocket and the clothes on her back and she certainly bounced back from battered spouse of an addict to a become quite successful ...

WantsOut

I say do what you have to do to get free. And good for you!

keepingmyjoy

Prodigal....wow. Good for you for taking action. (I am moving out too!)

I think in this situation, you have to ask yourself:

1. Can I leave without taking the money?
2. If I did take the money, can I live with my decision (and any crap that comes from it) without beating myself up and giving my self reason to feel bad about myself?

Please understand that I am not in your shoes and not sure what you should do. But IMHO, I think whatever you choose, you have to be able to be comfortable with that choice. For all I know, you deserve that money if you have contributed to it, etc. In my case, we split bills 50/50 and so any money in accts is half mine (not that he thinks so!!!!!)

I left my 1st H with daughters hand in mine, purse car keys and car. I made it through it! It can be done, expecially when you are out and the fog clears and you see more options than you ever thought you would when you were still with the H.

Good things are to come for both of us....just keep moving forward. Hugs to you! Since I am right here in same "sick and tired of being sick and tired", I know how difficult this part is (at least for me!) I will be thinking of you...keep us posted!

Mr. Christian

Hello my friend,
I see that the time has come for you also.
My advice to you is that you keep your side of the street clean as much as possible.

Getting a job will happen. A divorce can take much longer then a whole year, so I’m sure you will be covered.
Odds are he will be paying you and taking care of some insurance for awhile.

Try not to do anything that will bite you back later.

hadenoughnow

Legally the money is half yours, I doubt he would be able to convince the cops to prosecute you for forgery(they have better things to do). In the end whatever you take out now will come out of your half in the divorce.

My AH also has lots of money to drink (he removes about half his take home pay via ATM and leaves me to pay the bills pretty much by myself).

Jazzman

I say just hit the road..... but take the high road. I wouldn't do anything beneath my own scruples.

Barbara52

I also say ask youself what you think is right and follow your values. Don't lay any traps you might fall in later on.

Forging his signature is definitely illegal and if he files charges, yes they will prosecute.

My prayers are with you. Sometimes you just have to take that leap of faith and do everything you can to make that leap a good one. Can you do anything about lining up a job in Phoenix before you leave? Call temp agencies perhaps?

mama3

I am working on leaving mine too. The thing is now mine has not drank anything in THREE weeks!!!!!
I wonder how long it will last. The damage has been done. It is a pity he could not have done this several years ago.

Barbara52

My AH quit drinking the day I moved out (supposedly). Hasn't gotten into any recovery program or gone to AA though. He thinks quitting is enough and I'll come back. Wrong! All his issues are still there, he is not working on himself in anyway whatsoever. I AM working on myself and making progress.

prodigal

Thank you for your responses. You are right about keeping my side of the street as clean as possible. Eventually, someday down the road, I'll have the funds to file for a divorce. In the meantime, I think the only quandry I face is half the money in the checking account is legally mine and I could sure use those funds to get my stuff moved and stored.

On the other hand, I will receive money in a divorce settlement. Regarding jobs, I spent several days in Phoenix this week. Temp agencies need someone actually living there because many jobs come up and need to be filled in 24 hours or less.

Heck, I suppose this just boils down to having faith in myself to just do it and having faith in God to watch over me. If I do nothing illegal or immoral, then I walk away with a clean conscience. In a place with over 3 million people, I should be able to find SOME type of work!

ARealLady

keeping my side of the street as clean as possible.

Good thinking, prodigal! It will be so much easier to make it on your own when there's less to worry about on the "other side of the street".

As you are short of funds, is there anything you could pawn for cash?

Could you use your AH's credit card to pay for the packing and storage?

Wishing you all the best and keeping my fingers crossed for you.

ARL

duet_4-8

REALLY, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION?

This is just my ESH, but I WAS in a similar situation in that my ex controlled our finances. But when I reached my bottom and knew I could not stay any longer, I took enough money to get me through for a while because I had tried to leave before and ended up broke and (at least in my own mind at the time) unable to care for our kids.

Mine is a community property state also, but community property means just that-it belongs equally to both of you no matter how it is set up at the bank or anywhere else. He may have convinced you that this is not true, but believe me in the eyes of the courts, it is true.

Filing for divorce only puts a 'restraining order' on either of you disposing of or borrowing against marital property and will not be easily enforced. My ex went out and bought not one but two 2007 vehicles after I filed and nothing has happened to him. Not to say it won't at our mediation next month, because it will come up and he will have to make things right financially.

But my point is that no one is going to come looking for you to lock you up for taking what is half yours in the first place; there have been no legal papers filed, correct? And if you are the one who is proposing to do the filing, then what you stand to gain is for half of those assests to be yours.

If your ah is like mine, and it sounds like he is, he will stop at nothing to control you and stop you from leaving. I call it financial blackmail, because that is exactly what it is.

I am not advocating going against your principles, but IMHO life is too short to look for reasons not to do what we know in our heart of hearts is best for us.

Sometimes I believe that God gives us ways out of a bad situation but we are too afraid to take them. There is a joke that I have heard that goes like this:

There was a man in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean with no food and no water. A ship came by and offered to rescue him. "No, thanks. God will take care of me." he said.

A few days later, a helicopter appeared hovering over him and attempted to pick him up. "No, thanks. God will take care of me." he said.

He died and upon entering heaven, he went to God and said, "I thought you were going to take care of me! Why did you let me die?"

"Well," God replied, "I sent a ship and a helicopter........."

LaTeeDa

Having never been in a situation like yours, I cannot say what I would do. Listen to the quiet voice within and you will be fine.

L

denny57

If you file for the divorce, there will be an automatic restraining order (the summons contains it) put on dissipating the funds. Ask the attorney about doing an OSC immediately to get community funds released to you or to at least have the accounts frozen so he cannot drain them. Ask the attorney to do a dissomaster to find out what percentage of your husband's income you would receive in a temporary spousal support order and decide if that is close enough to half to make it bearable.

I was in your EXACT position. Good luck, prod!

hopeangel

no advice, but just wanted to say how happy i am you are moving on! have faith!!!!

minnie

(((prod)))

All I can say is do what you can live with and not do anything that would come bac and bite you on the arse in the future. My hunch is that forgery would not go in your favour in divorce court, but that is your risk to take.

I seem to recall that the financial situation is somewhat of a recurring theme for you - have you any access at all to funds in the form of stocks, funds etc or is everything in his name? Any chance of taking out a credit card in your name so you can live till your next paycheck? Might be worth, along with the other excellent suggestions on this and other threads you have posted, tapping into the Phoenix al-anon network for leads on house shares and jobs.

I get soooo frustrated when I hear stories like yours. The power balance is all skewed towards the one who wishes there to be no change and I don't see how it can ever be unraveled in even the medium term. Unfortunately, we (particularly women) are not often taught about the importance of financial independence as we are growing up.

prodigal

Denny - in response to whether or not I can get spousal support, the answer is no. Attorney #4 told me the marriage is considered of "short duration" because it is just over five years. (Yeah, being married to an A for five years is like being held under water for 5 minutes!)

I cannot get half the equity out of the house, although I may get a little bit if I can trace the paper trail of expenses for the past 18 months. Not an easy task. The funds used for the downpayment were not commingled. I DO have right to survivorship of tenancy, which means, like it or not, he cannot sell the house w/o my signature. (There IS some justice in the world...) On the other hand, if there was a foreclosure action, it would go against me.

No attorney would take my case because I did not have money to pay the $200 per hour fee nor the $5,000 upfront retainer needed to begin legal action.

Sadly, the bottom line is in this lifetime AH is going to get away with murder. His three week "vacation" in which he did not show up for work and did not even bother to call in on many days, cost him nothing. He just popped back up at the office without so much as a reprimand, as far as I know.

Bottom line: at this point in time, it will cost me less to be married to the jerk than to divorce him. However, that doesn't mean I cannot move out, change my cell phone number, put a block on my email account, and vanish for the time being ...:codiepolice

queenteree

Prodigal - You and I are in the same boat respecting money and attorneys. Aren't they real expensive???? I only wish I had your courage and strength to just leave and do what you have to do. Unfortunately, I have a job I've been at for 8 years and have medical w/them, plus 401K, etc. I would just have to leave w/nothing and start over, which I guess I am not strong enough to do. I'd say do what you have to do to take care of you, unfortunately again, our A's would but we have a hard time doing so. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts. Terri