The Human Condition
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 118
The Human Condition
So this morning I am feeling philosophical? It disheartens me to think about how frail the human condition is. How easily are people hurt, ensnared in addictions, suffer emotion trauma, tormented for life.....by their personal demons.
How are we/I being so blessed to have an opportunity to rise above the mire? Why aren't we forever trapped as others around us are? ...Grace?
It saddens me that as we grasp higher and higher up the ladder of healing I see people that choose not to follow me, or cannot follow, or who never see the ladder.
And up we/I go obtaining more and more healing....
Then I realize my world has gotten a lot quieter. There aren't as many people around me any longer. Some fall away, others I cut loose. What do we do with the extra time, the quiet times?
Will time once again be filled with those around us? Do we reach a place where all the healthy people are ;-) Or is there a room full of ladders and people all reaching for the next rung up?
....is that SR?
Maybe I am feeling a little alone on my ladder today. Where are my healthy ladder friends? Where is that person that encourages me up to the next rung?
How are we/I being so blessed to have an opportunity to rise above the mire? Why aren't we forever trapped as others around us are? ...Grace?
It saddens me that as we grasp higher and higher up the ladder of healing I see people that choose not to follow me, or cannot follow, or who never see the ladder.
And up we/I go obtaining more and more healing....
Then I realize my world has gotten a lot quieter. There aren't as many people around me any longer. Some fall away, others I cut loose. What do we do with the extra time, the quiet times?
Will time once again be filled with those around us? Do we reach a place where all the healthy people are ;-) Or is there a room full of ladders and people all reaching for the next rung up?
....is that SR?
Maybe I am feeling a little alone on my ladder today. Where are my healthy ladder friends? Where is that person that encourages me up to the next rung?
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Sthrnraizd, I know what you are saying. It makes me sad that people don't grasp the opportunity to pull themselves up out of the muck and mire. What makes one person grab hold of that lifeline while another lets it pass them by. I don't understand.
But then I think, I didn't grab hold for a long time either. I wasn't mired in the addiction of alcohol but I was stuck just the same. Although chances to make it better and do better and have better came I never took a hold. Why? Fear maybe or pride or hopelessness. I don't know.
Now that I'm out I find myself battling some of the same feelings and emotions I battled while I was stuck there. It's confusing. It is lonely. But I've realized that sometimes you just have to encourage youself and be your own cheerleader. And that is the great thing about SR I come here and get strength to make it to the next step. I come here and I can read about others who have made it and others who are where I used to be it gives me hope and helps through the sad times.
I'm glad I'm out of the muck but I still find that traces of it are still there...kind of like a stain that hasn't worn off yet. I hope it goes away eventually but who knows for sure.
But then I think, I didn't grab hold for a long time either. I wasn't mired in the addiction of alcohol but I was stuck just the same. Although chances to make it better and do better and have better came I never took a hold. Why? Fear maybe or pride or hopelessness. I don't know.
Now that I'm out I find myself battling some of the same feelings and emotions I battled while I was stuck there. It's confusing. It is lonely. But I've realized that sometimes you just have to encourage youself and be your own cheerleader. And that is the great thing about SR I come here and get strength to make it to the next step. I come here and I can read about others who have made it and others who are where I used to be it gives me hope and helps through the sad times.
I'm glad I'm out of the muck but I still find that traces of it are still there...kind of like a stain that hasn't worn off yet. I hope it goes away eventually but who knows for sure.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
Originally Posted by sthrnraizd 
Maybe I am feeling a little alone on my ladder today. Where are my healthy ladder friends? Where is that person that encourages me up to the next rung?
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, one big happy dysfunctional family!
Posts: 23,056
Recovery is freely available to everyone, although we've all paid our dues to get here. It saddens me too that some fall or don't have the desire to follow, but I have to remind myself often that everyone can't be saved. Right now I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, I can lead only by example. And yes, I truly believe these Promises and know they become reality-
The Twelve Promises of AA.
If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Self-seeking will slip away.
Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us—sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.
The Twelve Promises of AA.
If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.
We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
Self-seeking will slip away.
Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us—sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Murrieta, Ca
Posts: 2,683
They say maybe 6% of he population is alcoholic. I live in an area whre's theres 1/4 million people. That's 15,000 alcoholics.
At the last AA Founders Day, there were maybe 500 people. Of those, maybe 1/3 will be there a year from now. That's 150 out of 15,000 that make it, maybe.
The Big Book talks about the broad highway, but the Big Big Book talks about the narrow path. I'm grateful I'm on both.
At the last AA Founders Day, there were maybe 500 people. Of those, maybe 1/3 will be there a year from now. That's 150 out of 15,000 that make it, maybe.
The Big Book talks about the broad highway, but the Big Big Book talks about the narrow path. I'm grateful I'm on both.
I Finally Love My Life!!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 648
I remember one of the AA meetings I attending with XABF the speaker got up and fired off about how he goes to meetings every day and people doing the speaking were the same group of individuals each time. He was speaking to a room of about 50.
He was fired up because he believed that simply attending the meetings did not mean you were actively participating in your own recovery.
I agree with him. Simply "observing" is not the same as taking a hold of the next rung in the ladder and pulling yourself out of the depths.
Why don't people do it - they're not ready, perhaps?
It got to the point where I knew I had to fight to save myself, my heart and my well-being. I was not ready to divert ALL of my energy to myself, when my codie core said I had to devote it to supporting XABF with his recovery. It was not until it hurt more to be around the A than to split from him forever that I said "screw it" and focused on saving myself. It's all sad.
He was fired up because he believed that simply attending the meetings did not mean you were actively participating in your own recovery.
I agree with him. Simply "observing" is not the same as taking a hold of the next rung in the ladder and pulling yourself out of the depths.
Why don't people do it - they're not ready, perhaps?
It got to the point where I knew I had to fight to save myself, my heart and my well-being. I was not ready to divert ALL of my energy to myself, when my codie core said I had to devote it to supporting XABF with his recovery. It was not until it hurt more to be around the A than to split from him forever that I said "screw it" and focused on saving myself. It's all sad.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 118
Chero ~ I'm glad I'm out of the muck but I still find that traces of it are still there...kind of like a stain that hasn't worn off yet. I hope it goes away eventually but who knows for sure.
I think that stain will stay forever. I have been forever stained by my experience with my A. But, I do not count that stain as a negative item. I is a place of remembrance. Kinda like a scar, there isnt pain anylonger but it reminds me. And I can share of it when asked. And hopefully share wisdom on how to not get the same stain/scar
I think that stain will stay forever. I have been forever stained by my experience with my A. But, I do not count that stain as a negative item. I is a place of remembrance. Kinda like a scar, there isnt pain anylonger but it reminds me. And I can share of it when asked. And hopefully share wisdom on how to not get the same stain/scar
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 62
Thank you for posting this sthrnraizd. I think along the same lines.
It's like the wrungs are grades and some are in higher grades than others. If I am in fifth and someone is in second, I can tutor but I can't stay there for the rest of my education. I have already been in that classroom and it is frustrating to repeat the lessons with someone else who may be stuck there for a while. For me that doesn't feel comfortable or desireable so I do what I can and leave the rest behind. it took a long time to own that and it's still a work in progress. It's life in general, I think.
One thing I have come to repsect is that everyone comes to their truth in their own time in their own way. It is as individual as our fingerprints. If we find ourselves overwhelemed by helping another who isn't moving as we feel they should, it is a flag to us that we are not in a good place and it wil be of little benefit to walk with them for long.
Life is a constant journey of growth and change and free will. No one says we ever have to climb the ladder in the first place or how high we can climb once we start. It's our choices and judgement of others is a distaction from the work.
"Do we reach a place where all the healthy people are ;-) Or is there a room full of ladders and people all reaching for the next rung up? " I think this is the exact room where the healthy people are.
It's when we stop reaching that we stop growing. IMO, the human condition is about being the best we can be while we are living. I'm still stuck in many ways but also have escaped the muck in many others.
This post helped me to express a part of myself that I see as an asset and I am grateful to you for helping me exercise my mind in a healthy way.
Never stop reaching!
Jilly
It's like the wrungs are grades and some are in higher grades than others. If I am in fifth and someone is in second, I can tutor but I can't stay there for the rest of my education. I have already been in that classroom and it is frustrating to repeat the lessons with someone else who may be stuck there for a while. For me that doesn't feel comfortable or desireable so I do what I can and leave the rest behind. it took a long time to own that and it's still a work in progress. It's life in general, I think.
One thing I have come to repsect is that everyone comes to their truth in their own time in their own way. It is as individual as our fingerprints. If we find ourselves overwhelemed by helping another who isn't moving as we feel they should, it is a flag to us that we are not in a good place and it wil be of little benefit to walk with them for long.
Life is a constant journey of growth and change and free will. No one says we ever have to climb the ladder in the first place or how high we can climb once we start. It's our choices and judgement of others is a distaction from the work.
"Do we reach a place where all the healthy people are ;-) Or is there a room full of ladders and people all reaching for the next rung up? " I think this is the exact room where the healthy people are.
It's when we stop reaching that we stop growing. IMO, the human condition is about being the best we can be while we are living. I'm still stuck in many ways but also have escaped the muck in many others.
This post helped me to express a part of myself that I see as an asset and I am grateful to you for helping me exercise my mind in a healthy way.
Never stop reaching!
Jilly
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by sthrnraizd
I think that stain will stay forever. I have been forever stained by my experience with my A. But, I do not count that stain as a negative item. I is a place of remembrance. Kinda like a scar, there isnt pain anylonger but it reminds me. And I can share of it when asked. And hopefully share wisdom on how to not get the same stain/scar
I am, too, forever stained, forever changed, forever scarred. But some days I want to run away to a place where no one knows about the scars and start all over.
Wishful thinking, I know.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 149
to me, thinking of recovery as a ladder implies some are above others, and i don't think that's true. no one is lower, or higher-- be grateful for every bit of recovery, and every new comer-- it isn't easy for any one, i don't think. something can happen that will knock you off your feet- you may see that those who you think "can't see" see more than you knew.
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Posts: 118
Lillian ~ My ladder isnt build by rungs of pride. It is bulit of out pure desire to live, to survive. It could be a path or a road, we will not all be on the path/road/latter at the same time. Some have gone long before me and I am soooo very Thankful bescause their words encourage me to keep going when I am tired, or too week. So will walk behind me because they havent yet walked away or reached out. Some unfortunately will never move from where they are....that is life....and its sucks that not everyone will find recovery! But I am dang thankful I am. I am moving along my path, that is mine solely! No one has been down it fore me, but some see it all too familiar just the same.
And I pray daily for those who "cant see" find their sight!!! I have HOPE for everyone, I desire the best for everyone, but not everyone will take advantage of it....I cannot change that, I did not create their issues, BUT I can change mine and I am.
And I pray daily for those who "cant see" find their sight!!! I have HOPE for everyone, I desire the best for everyone, but not everyone will take advantage of it....I cannot change that, I did not create their issues, BUT I can change mine and I am.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 62
This is a great thread!
We are always right where we are supposed to be at any given moment of our lives.
If we look at life in this way, there is no one who is above or below anyone else.
I was once told that no part of God is any better than another. I believe that as much as I believe that some find light while others stumble in the dark and neither is right or wrong for them to do. We each have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses and that's what makes us interesting and unique human beings.
Our freedom to always choose is the greatest power we have and it is only up to us to decide how to walk our path.
"I have HOPE for everyone, I desire the best for everyone, but not everyone will take advantage of it....I cannot change that, I did not create their issues, BUT I can change mine and I am." So true sthrnraizd!
It is one of the best examples of the human condition there can be. We own what is ours to own and do what we must the way we see fit in our eyes. Some may seem lost to others but never are in the first place. It is the personal decision of each and every one of us.
We are always right where we are supposed to be at any given moment of our lives.
If we look at life in this way, there is no one who is above or below anyone else.
I was once told that no part of God is any better than another. I believe that as much as I believe that some find light while others stumble in the dark and neither is right or wrong for them to do. We each have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses and that's what makes us interesting and unique human beings.
Our freedom to always choose is the greatest power we have and it is only up to us to decide how to walk our path.
"I have HOPE for everyone, I desire the best for everyone, but not everyone will take advantage of it....I cannot change that, I did not create their issues, BUT I can change mine and I am." So true sthrnraizd!
It is one of the best examples of the human condition there can be. We own what is ours to own and do what we must the way we see fit in our eyes. Some may seem lost to others but never are in the first place. It is the personal decision of each and every one of us.
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 118
Maybe this isnt coming out the way I had hoped. I am not here to judge anyone or the place at which they stand.
I wish everyone found that which made to them healthy and whole. But for those that havent I am not waiting around. I am pursuing my "wholeness" and I can very proudly thank my exA. Because if it wasn't for him I wouldnt be where I am today.
This thread now has taken out of it the goodness and happiness I felt when I wrote it.
I wish everyone found that which made to them healthy and whole. But for those that havent I am not waiting around. I am pursuing my "wholeness" and I can very proudly thank my exA. Because if it wasn't for him I wouldnt be where I am today.
This thread now has taken out of it the goodness and happiness I felt when I wrote it.
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by jillybean
We own what is ours to own
If our life is supposed to be about us then we really can't discount anything we go through...the good, bad and ugly...it's all ours.
I don't look at others and judge where they are. It's not my place to do that. I do look at others who are farther along and think, "there's hope for me, too" and I look at others just starting in recovery and I think, "I am making progress".
Own my own stuff. The trials and struggles, the tears and laughter and even the scars. Even the scars. They've all shaped me into who I am and who I will be.
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 62
I am so sorry sthrnraizd. I didn't mean to cause you any pain. I thought you were expressing things that I have felt myself in my life's journeys. I wanted to support your thoughts.
Is there somewhere I can access to delete my posts?
Is there somewhere I can access to delete my posts?
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
I only know one thing about a ladder.
If the ground is soft, and you place a ladder in the soft soil, and try to climb it, it will sink into the muck and mire, the higher you try to climb, the more it will sink, and you have not gotten anywhere.
A ladder needs a foundation, a strong base, when the base is in place, one can climb up the rungs, all the way to the top.
That's all I know about ladders....I've learned the hard way.
If the ground is soft, and you place a ladder in the soft soil, and try to climb it, it will sink into the muck and mire, the higher you try to climb, the more it will sink, and you have not gotten anywhere.
A ladder needs a foundation, a strong base, when the base is in place, one can climb up the rungs, all the way to the top.
That's all I know about ladders....I've learned the hard way.
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Dolly that is a great response! WOW! How true it is!
Sthrnraizd, I like this thread. I didn't think it had gone bad. It's so interesting. I didn't think anyone was judging. You did good!
To quote yourself, it's very "philosophical"! Thanks!
Sthrnraizd, I like this thread. I didn't think it had gone bad. It's so interesting. I didn't think anyone was judging. You did good!
To quote yourself, it's very "philosophical"! Thanks!
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Jilly ~ there is no need to delete anything. You said nothing wrong ..honest :-)
As Chero pointed helped me see maybe it was "philosophical", I just wasnt prepared for some of the different views or thoughts. My little head had painted a pretty picture and some used their own paints to help out.
Im fine, there is nothing wrong with everyone have their own opinion or thought. That is why we are different. I still will come here first....I love SR :-)
Keep your thoughts coming ;-)
As Chero pointed helped me see maybe it was "philosophical", I just wasnt prepared for some of the different views or thoughts. My little head had painted a pretty picture and some used their own paints to help out.
Im fine, there is nothing wrong with everyone have their own opinion or thought. That is why we are different. I still will come here first....I love SR :-)
Keep your thoughts coming ;-)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Originally Posted by sthrnraizd
I just wasnt prepared for some of the different views or thoughts. My little head had painted a pretty picture and some used their own paints to help out.
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