Doing a little thinking here......
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Doing a little thinking here......
very dangerous thing for alcoholics to do you know! LOL
I have been sober 9 months now and I am not even the same person I was 16 years ago when my wife and I met before my alcoholism started to take over my life and proceed to try and destroy me and every one around me.
My wife has told me that I am not that same man she married 15 years ago even though I have been sober 9 months, I am not totally a different person, but I can tell I am different then I was before my alcoholism kicked in big time.
Luckily for my wife, kids, and myself I am a different person with a sprinkling of the old me mixed in that my wife. kids, and even I love.
Where is the old alkie going with this you may ask? Well my first sponsor had his wife of 18 years divorce him even though he had been sober for over 2 years! Why? Like me he had changed!
For those of you whose spouse has recovered from alcoholism what are your thoughts, did you spouse change?
Another reason I brought this out is from most of the post I read here where folks want their old spouse back before the drinking took over, I doubt very seriously if your spouse will be the person they were before alcohol took them over.
In order to stay sober an alcoholic must change, if we change nothing, then nothing will change.
Alcohol is but one small symptom of alcoholism so simply not drinking do not equal a recovered or recovering alcoholic, all that equals is a dry drunk.
I have been sober 9 months now and I am not even the same person I was 16 years ago when my wife and I met before my alcoholism started to take over my life and proceed to try and destroy me and every one around me.
My wife has told me that I am not that same man she married 15 years ago even though I have been sober 9 months, I am not totally a different person, but I can tell I am different then I was before my alcoholism kicked in big time.
Luckily for my wife, kids, and myself I am a different person with a sprinkling of the old me mixed in that my wife. kids, and even I love.
Where is the old alkie going with this you may ask? Well my first sponsor had his wife of 18 years divorce him even though he had been sober for over 2 years! Why? Like me he had changed!
For those of you whose spouse has recovered from alcoholism what are your thoughts, did you spouse change?
Another reason I brought this out is from most of the post I read here where folks want their old spouse back before the drinking took over, I doubt very seriously if your spouse will be the person they were before alcohol took them over.
In order to stay sober an alcoholic must change, if we change nothing, then nothing will change.
Alcohol is but one small symptom of alcoholism so simply not drinking do not equal a recovered or recovering alcoholic, all that equals is a dry drunk.
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Yes PR you are right, I am grateful for them, I am also grateful that the changes in me that keep me sober yet even though I am not the same man my wife married is one that she still loves.
She has said on many occasions that I am very different from the man she met and married and that she is thankful that the man I have become is one she still loves.
She has said on many occasions that I am very different from the man she met and married and that she is thankful that the man I have become is one she still loves.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 1,027
Hmm......I guess this is just my opinion.
When I found out my husband was popping xanax like candy, I thought that if he'd just stop using drugs that everything would be okay. I was wrong.
It took a lot of introspection and humility for me to finally admit that he wasn't the only one with a problem. I had a big one too. If I hadn't realized that would we still be together, no probably not, cause he would be changing but I would be stuck in my same ol patterns.
Codependency can be a difficult thing. Its hard to deal with someone changing and having to give up the control you thought you had over them. Its hard to allow that person, alcoholic or addict alike, to make their own mistakes and live their own life. Heck, its hard to live my own life. My codependency had me thinking I always had to control what he was doing or else he would fall completely apart. Little did I know that once I stopped, he'd have to get it together or keep falling. I was holding his hand and preventing that fall. Letting go may have been what saved his life. All because of my control issues. My codependency.
Now that he's clean and been clean for a while now, he'd not be able to take it if I constantly controlled every single move he made and I'd not be able to take it either. Its tiring and will break you down after a while. Its a sickness that can kill.
Change takes place in any marriage, addiction or alcoholism or not. It happens. You either grow together or your grow apart.
When I found out my husband was popping xanax like candy, I thought that if he'd just stop using drugs that everything would be okay. I was wrong.
It took a lot of introspection and humility for me to finally admit that he wasn't the only one with a problem. I had a big one too. If I hadn't realized that would we still be together, no probably not, cause he would be changing but I would be stuck in my same ol patterns.
Codependency can be a difficult thing. Its hard to deal with someone changing and having to give up the control you thought you had over them. Its hard to allow that person, alcoholic or addict alike, to make their own mistakes and live their own life. Heck, its hard to live my own life. My codependency had me thinking I always had to control what he was doing or else he would fall completely apart. Little did I know that once I stopped, he'd have to get it together or keep falling. I was holding his hand and preventing that fall. Letting go may have been what saved his life. All because of my control issues. My codependency.
Now that he's clean and been clean for a while now, he'd not be able to take it if I constantly controlled every single move he made and I'd not be able to take it either. Its tiring and will break you down after a while. Its a sickness that can kill.
Change takes place in any marriage, addiction or alcoholism or not. It happens. You either grow together or your grow apart.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
I've never been and alkie/addict and I am certainly not the "same" person I was 15 yrs. ago...not even 5 yrs. ago. life is all about growth, change, wisdom, progress, introspection, etc. It seems the addict stays stuck and when they get sober change becomes possible like it is for the rest of us. My view of marriage is it is important to keep growing and be accepting and encouraging of your spouse to do the same. Good Topic Tazman
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
Posts: 3,167
Bravo, well said Laura! Giving up codependency behaviors + thinking was the best change I ever made! Not only for my husband and everyone else around me but the freedom it gives me. The world continues to turn on its axis and people do great things without any involvement from me. Now that I can only focus on myself, I see that alone is a full-time job.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FREEDOM
Posts: 665
I was married 23 years to a man who was constantly changing and growing. He wasn't an addict or an alcoholic.
I was changing and growing too
That's the "definition" of a long term relationship IMHO
And it's also the "definition" of LOVE
If you can't withstand the evolution of self in a partnership, then do you really love the person your with to begin with?
I would TOTALLY expect my partner to change in the relationship. Meeting and marrying, cohabitating or whatever works for you as individuals is the "foundation". The rest needs to be built and go through renovations as long as you are together.
It's the "core" of the person that never really changes. I bet if you asked your wife, she'd tell you thats still the same Taz, the REASON she fell in love with you in the first place,,,
Peace
I was changing and growing too
That's the "definition" of a long term relationship IMHO
And it's also the "definition" of LOVE
If you can't withstand the evolution of self in a partnership, then do you really love the person your with to begin with?
I would TOTALLY expect my partner to change in the relationship. Meeting and marrying, cohabitating or whatever works for you as individuals is the "foundation". The rest needs to be built and go through renovations as long as you are together.
It's the "core" of the person that never really changes. I bet if you asked your wife, she'd tell you thats still the same Taz, the REASON she fell in love with you in the first place,,,
Peace
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
SS in many aspects I (and most alcoholics I know which is quite a few in AA) quit maturing when I started drinking, but I began to learn how to lie and manipulate people around me for my own good, the longer I drank the better I got at it.
I lied and manipulated to where I could drink, for sex, and any thing else I wanted in life and felt little remorse about it for years, I lied more to myself then other people when it came to my drinking. I have heard it said that an alcoholics brain is divided into 2 halfs, one that lies and the other half that beleives the lies! LOL
I no longer lie, I do not manipulate people any more, I am honest with myself, when I hurt some one I immediately apologize, I no longer feel it is right to take advantage of some one.
It is rare that I raise my voice to my children and I find that I no longer get angry about much of anything. I am not the agressive person I was before, I find life much easier when I am not confrontational but ask questions when needed and comment when appropiate.
I used to not be able to see the other persons view point and could have cared less about why they felt the way they did.
There are so many things I have had to change in my thought process and actions that are not a product of drinking, but are a symptom of alcoholism.
I lied and manipulated to where I could drink, for sex, and any thing else I wanted in life and felt little remorse about it for years, I lied more to myself then other people when it came to my drinking. I have heard it said that an alcoholics brain is divided into 2 halfs, one that lies and the other half that beleives the lies! LOL
I no longer lie, I do not manipulate people any more, I am honest with myself, when I hurt some one I immediately apologize, I no longer feel it is right to take advantage of some one.
It is rare that I raise my voice to my children and I find that I no longer get angry about much of anything. I am not the agressive person I was before, I find life much easier when I am not confrontational but ask questions when needed and comment when appropiate.
I used to not be able to see the other persons view point and could have cared less about why they felt the way they did.
There are so many things I have had to change in my thought process and actions that are not a product of drinking, but are a symptom of alcoholism.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
My ex wife has been sober off and on in the past. She's currently sober and we started dating again. My situation might be a little unique in that I have known her for over 30 years. We grew up in the same neighborhood and her bro is one of my oldest buddies. We dated off and on in our teens and 20s and were married for 5 years during our 40s. Over the years I have know her sober much longer than I have known her drunk.
She's not different a person sober, just not annoying like when she's drunk... LOL!!!
I think the difference is when someone is REALLY working on their own faults and flaws of character (like we all should be doing all the time) people really do change.
Me? I'm the same as I've always been, (too). Just older and wiser (and dumber) with a few less character flaws and bad habits and some new faults and bad habits I didn't use to have. People don't change, people do change, and change is consistent. Get it?
She's not different a person sober, just not annoying like when she's drunk... LOL!!!
I think the difference is when someone is REALLY working on their own faults and flaws of character (like we all should be doing all the time) people really do change.
Me? I'm the same as I've always been, (too). Just older and wiser (and dumber) with a few less character flaws and bad habits and some new faults and bad habits I didn't use to have. People don't change, people do change, and change is consistent. Get it?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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My husband and I are no longer together. He did get sober and has changed, but in all honesty, I have changed more. My journey on the path of recovery from codependence led me to the realization that my marriage wasn't working for me. And also to the awareness that I had already spent nearly twenty years waiting for it to work for me. How much longer was I willing to wait and try and work on this marriage? It's true, you either grow together or grow apart. Sadly, in my case, it was the latter. Yet, even though it is sad that the marriage didn't survive, I know that we are both better people today than we were when we were married. And we have a better, more mutually respectful relationship now than we ever had before. And, for the first time in a long time (maybe ever) I can truly say my life is good! 
L
L
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Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
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CE I agree with the "Core" person being the same, but there are in some cases large enough changes to where either the recovered alcoholic or their SO feels the need to move on from thier SO.
Some women find a "dangerous" man very attractive, if that man turns out to be an alcoholic and then goes into recovery, the attractiveness of that "dangerous" man may suddenly dissappear because the "dangerous" part was a by product of alcoholism that the man had to change in order to stay sober.
Another instance is where an alcoholic finally recovers and suddenly is totally turned off by thier SO because they are so Codie that they do not find some one that lets some one else crap all over them for years atractive.
Then of course I am sure there is the codie that is totally turned off because suddenly their alcoholic/addict is now straight and doing well leaving them to feel useless.
Some women find a "dangerous" man very attractive, if that man turns out to be an alcoholic and then goes into recovery, the attractiveness of that "dangerous" man may suddenly dissappear because the "dangerous" part was a by product of alcoholism that the man had to change in order to stay sober.
Another instance is where an alcoholic finally recovers and suddenly is totally turned off by thier SO because they are so Codie that they do not find some one that lets some one else crap all over them for years atractive.
Then of course I am sure there is the codie that is totally turned off because suddenly their alcoholic/addict is now straight and doing well leaving them to feel useless.
Recovering Nicely
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 935
Taz,
Great topic!!! I think alot has to do with AA and working the program. My RAH (only sober a month now) had a good 14 sober years under his belt, did his 90 in 90 and would go to AA sporadically throughout the years. Anyway, now that he has completed rehab again (totally AA based) and is attending meetings, he has changed from the sober man he was years ago, spiritually. AA is spiritual and I don't think he was that spiritual back then. I like the man he is so far, so I'm hoping for the best.
QT
Great topic!!! I think alot has to do with AA and working the program. My RAH (only sober a month now) had a good 14 sober years under his belt, did his 90 in 90 and would go to AA sporadically throughout the years. Anyway, now that he has completed rehab again (totally AA based) and is attending meetings, he has changed from the sober man he was years ago, spiritually. AA is spiritual and I don't think he was that spiritual back then. I like the man he is so far, so I'm hoping for the best.
QT
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Originally Posted by Tazman53 
Then of course I am sure there is the codie that is totally turned off because suddenly their alcoholic/addict is now straight and doing well leaving them to feel useless.
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Agreed Taz, people can change so they grow apart,,,,
Why do you think the divorce rate is so high?!?!?!
If you weather through the storms, holding on to each other, you grow closer together. Your being TRUE to your individual core, The one that brought you together in the first place.
Again, IMHO that is TRUE core love,,,
Stop being true to your core, and you run the risks of "variables". It can work the opposite also. Begin to DISCOVER your core, and your "different" to your partner also.
Too many people rush into relationships without first knowing THEIR core (favorite color?) Or it gets "tarnished' after years of "settling" for less than what our standards are, like NEEDING the "bad boy" or the 'enabler". Its a delcate balacne maintaining relationships in the LONG TERM.
Your HP gave you and your wife a gift Taz. One were change was GOOD
Peace
Why do you think the divorce rate is so high?!?!?!
If you weather through the storms, holding on to each other, you grow closer together. Your being TRUE to your individual core, The one that brought you together in the first place.
Again, IMHO that is TRUE core love,,,
Stop being true to your core, and you run the risks of "variables". It can work the opposite also. Begin to DISCOVER your core, and your "different" to your partner also.
Too many people rush into relationships without first knowing THEIR core (favorite color?) Or it gets "tarnished' after years of "settling" for less than what our standards are, like NEEDING the "bad boy" or the 'enabler". Its a delcate balacne maintaining relationships in the LONG TERM.
Your HP gave you and your wife a gift Taz. One were change was GOOD
Peace
Live, Laugh, Love
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Between Fenway and the Beach!
Posts: 1,301
What you said happened to you is exactly what i'm going through at the moment with my bf, he's been sober 6 months and we've been together 9 months. Unfortunately we are financially bound at the moment. He wants a break, doesn't know who he is, feels empty inside, says he needs to clear up cobwebs in his head. I've done just that, given him his space, yesterdway was my bday and he text me after no contact in 2 weeks saying "you probably hate me and doesnt mean much but happy bday" so i called him, we talked which i thought went well, text a bit after that and mentioned about possibly seeing each other briefly after work. He told me he would DEFINATLEY call me after work, well right before he left work he sent me an email saying he had to get his crap together and figure things out, hoped i could understand but happy bday. Completely backed off and not wanting to see me. My gut feeling on this is that he has either slipped and drank or there's someone else either from AA or and ex. He claims there's no one else but i've done everything for him (which i know is wrong) but he's being nasty it seems, wont give me answers, almost like he wants me to end things.
Last night i got home and he had come by (knowing no one was home) and left a present on my door with a card that said hope you can understand why things are this way, hope to find myself soon, i've let everyone down, but i do care. Nothing about loving me, or saying anything about thank you for your support, nothing reassuring at all. I'm at a loss, i would love to just walk away but know we are tied because of me helping him out. Not sure if i'm not understanding his recovery and he feels like he has to be like this to recover but he's definately worse than the person i was with drunk and sober in such a short time (approx. 1 month.) Sorry to ramble, hoping you can shed some light as you stated you changed too...do i give it time or what to do?
Last night i got home and he had come by (knowing no one was home) and left a present on my door with a card that said hope you can understand why things are this way, hope to find myself soon, i've let everyone down, but i do care. Nothing about loving me, or saying anything about thank you for your support, nothing reassuring at all. I'm at a loss, i would love to just walk away but know we are tied because of me helping him out. Not sure if i'm not understanding his recovery and he feels like he has to be like this to recover but he's definately worse than the person i was with drunk and sober in such a short time (approx. 1 month.) Sorry to ramble, hoping you can shed some light as you stated you changed too...do i give it time or what to do?
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
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HBB. Please stop focusing on his recovery and start focusing on your own. As I stated on one of your other posts yesterday or the day before.
"He doesn't know if he is coming or going right now, isn't real sure yet what reality is, and at this point is really INCAPABLE of fulfilling YOUR EXPECTATIONS." He is feeling "scattered", "unsure", "like a fish out of water", "like he knows absolutely nothing", and very very CONFUSED.
He's telling you the best he can right now that he feels like SH*T. Please leave him be.
Please, get to alanon. Work on your own recovery. Work on what YOU WANT OUT OF LIFE, and what YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT. Work on your boundaries, what behavior is and is not acceptable to you (from ABF and others). Work on you to figure out where your insecurities are coming from and how to FIX YOU. Learn the 3 C's:
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
"It" being anything and everything not to do with you.
I know it is very confusing for you right now, however, it will be less so if you take the FOCUS off of AFB and put it back on you.
J M H O
Sorry Taz, did not mean to Hijack your thread, but HBB seems to be in some trouble here. I just hope this helps her a bit.
Love and hugs,
"He doesn't know if he is coming or going right now, isn't real sure yet what reality is, and at this point is really INCAPABLE of fulfilling YOUR EXPECTATIONS." He is feeling "scattered", "unsure", "like a fish out of water", "like he knows absolutely nothing", and very very CONFUSED.
with a card that said hope you can understand why things are this way, hope to find myself soon, i've let everyone down, but i do care.
Please, get to alanon. Work on your own recovery. Work on what YOU WANT OUT OF LIFE, and what YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT. Work on your boundaries, what behavior is and is not acceptable to you (from ABF and others). Work on you to figure out where your insecurities are coming from and how to FIX YOU. Learn the 3 C's:
You didn't CAUSE it,
You can't CONTROL it, and
You can't CURE it.
"It" being anything and everything not to do with you.
I know it is very confusing for you right now, however, it will be less so if you take the FOCUS off of AFB and put it back on you.
J M H O
Sorry Taz, did not mean to Hijack your thread, but HBB seems to be in some trouble here. I just hope this helps her a bit.
Love and hugs,
Live, Laugh, Love
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Between Fenway and the Beach!
Posts: 1,301
Thank you for your kind words....i'm going to seek that advice tomorrow night at a new series of Al Anon, thank you to everyone who has been dealing with my sorrow for the past week, i truly appreciate it and couldn't have done it without this site.
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