DesertEyes

Hey there JJ,

Wonderful thread here, thanx to everybody for the honesty.

I cannot answer for Taz, or for any other person on the planet. I can answer only for myself as a recovering Alcoholic _and_ recovering co-dependent.

I can drink for days on end until it knocks me out because there is no reason to do otherwise. There is always somebody there to pick up whatever mess I may have made, if I even noticed that I made a mess. The "payoff" of feeling _good_ while drunk is far greater than whatever nuisance I may have to endure. A girlfriend who complains about my drinking? Who cares, she complained all year long and still lets me sleep on her couch.

Fast forward 20yrs in my life to living with a pill-addicted wife.

I can rescue a pill addicted wife for days on end until it knocks me out emotionally because there is no reason to do otherwise. I am always there to pick up whatever mess she may have made, and I notice _every_ last little detail of her messes. The "payoff" of feeling _good_ for being such a responsible spouse that protects _my_ image of a perfect marriage in the face of the world is far greater than whatever disapointment I may have to endure. A boss who complains about my continuously being exhausted at work? Who cares, boss doesn't understand what it means to be such a virtuous person as myself that would sacrifice health, life and sanity for love.

Which answer do you want? The answer from my life as an addict to alcohol, or the answer from my life as an addict to a "relationship with an addict"? How about I give both answers at once.

I can _never_ get high enough to fix _me_. Getting high on _anything_ distracts my mind from the pain I have inside of me. It does _not_ fix me, it just gives me a few moments when I can succesfully ignore the deep, piercing pain I feel whenever I _stop_ and take an honest look at _me_.

Getting high on a relationship works just as good for me as getting high on booze. Focusing my mind on _her_: on her pills, on her irresponsibility, on her affairs, on her boyfriends, on her _anything_ keeps me away from the _real_ problem in my life.

The real problem in my life is that I _hurt_ inside, and I can't find anything in the world that makes that hurt go away. So I spend my life covering it up. With booze, with relationships, with a marriage turned sour.

Today I choose to no longer cover up the pain. Today I choose to work my "program of recovery" and face the pain. Today I do not have that pain anymore, I can stand against the world and _know_ that I am just fine the way I am, warts and all. Today I no longer need any of my addictions to cover up the pain. Recovery has given me that freedom.

Here are the same questions re-written for someone who is a "codie" like me.

How do you continue to return to the same "toxic" relationship for days on end until it knocks you out emotionally, or kills you from ulcers, abuse, or heart attack? All my normal friends can never undersand why I do this to myself. How high or low do you have to get to fix what ever it is your numbing?

I know the honest answers for me, if you find them for yourself you will be as free as I am.

Mike

stone

I agree Minnie, I think in a way we are blessed with feeling things deeply-but sometimes too much. Personally I wouldn't swap my feelings for anything, I know I will be OK. But god it is haaarrdd!

justjo

Hi Desert
Ok, so what you are saying is, the reason you can do this is because you dont have to be a responsible adult. Its like you are children who have everything done for you. Im not saying this in a sarcastic way at all. You know now I understand better, because my DA Son was the same when I think about it you know. He never had to be responsible because I was picking up the pieces. When I stopped, he fell hard and tried to work it out.

OK, when you talk about pain and how bad that pain is and you have to treat it with booze as an adult is it because as a child or young adult you did not know how to deal with conflict or address issues? I mean this sincerely ok. My sister says the pain of loosing her marriage and children (because of the booze) makes her drink like she does now, but she was drinking before that and says she doesnt know why.

I am glad to hear you are doing well with your recovery too. I didnt actually understand why you were asking me what I do to numb myself because actually I cant think of anything that numbs me to that point. Anyway thanks for your reply.
Justjo

Tess L

I don't drink often, maybe once a month or every other month and its usually a social occasion. I've never liked beer, but do enjoy a glass of wine when we go out for dinner or an umbrella drink at parties. My BIL makes a great black russion which I will have when the party is at his house. As for quantity, usually I have 1 and I do or don't finish it depending on how much I enjoyed it. My limit is 3. I don't actually put a limit on myself, but at that point I'm pretty sloshed and sick to my stomoch.

rosalie

I don't know that college can be used as an excuse for drinking.My grandson is in his last year of college and is an alcoholic. His consuming alcohol came long before college.
I often wonder if the family using Social Alcohol on Holidays may have led him to think other types of drinking to excess were accepted. No one in my family is an Alcoholic. Like most we enjoy a glass of Wine or the Punch Bowl on special days.
I have to take into account my Grandsons Father was an Alcoholic,who left my Grandson and my Daughter shortly after his birth. They have no contact. My Grandson does not know his Father.My Daughter has no address for him or knowledge of his where abouts for years now. This makes me sure that this is a Genetic Disease. I have never felt strongly one way or another about Alcohol until now.

StandingStrong

In reading all the responses, I guess I had to question "what's a normal drinker?"

LOL, I mean really - wouldn't "normal" be per the individual?

In high school, it was "normal" for me to go drink.
After that, it was "normal" for me to go drink with my friends on occassion.
When XAH and I were dating, oh "drinking" was routine so I guess we thought it was "normal".

Hmm........

I don't drink now. At all. Does that make me abnormal? LOL

I've seen the devastation that it can cause and I've felt firsthand the pain that it can cause and I never want to go there.
Don't get me wrong - I have my days where I just want to throw in the towel and join in - but I know that wouldn't make things better - and I hate what alcohol does and I don't want to put myself in that place.

XAH and I had conversations though sort of like this thread. It's really interesting though how people just see things so differently.
There again, "normal" is the individual's opinion.

As said earlier, I don't think that we'll ever really understand each other's perspectives. I believe it's one of those things in life that must be experienced to really understand.

DesertEyes

Heya JJ,

Yup.

nope. There is something medically wrong with the way my brain handles the normal stresses of daily life. Without some kind of external assistance it just goes into massive emotional fluctuations. Chemicals do a wonderful job of knocking that out, but so do most other addictions.

I've been tested for everything under the sun, spent a whole month at Mayo hospital a couple years ago. I have _no_ ordinary mental disease. No manic-depressive, no psychosis, no depression, no tumors. My brain reacts to booze, and other sedative-hypnotics in weird ways, which the medical profession has diagnosed as "alcoholism".

Just trying to find a point of comparison. Do you smoke? Do you gamble? Do you overeat? I'm not being nosy, just trying to find a way I can better explain why I drink.

Mike

justjo

Mmmm, you got me thinking. Ok, you explained it well. So this emotional side needs a chemical/substance to help? s..t you would think there would be some kind of medical thing for this then. I guess you are saying something similar to this.
My father had Parkinson Disease for 20 years and finally died of influenza. The disease controlled his nervous system (I mean totally out of his control) and the emotional side was shattered due to it. He actually was a drinker before this occurred and whilst in the disease he became a bad gambler too.
I could talk for ages but there isnt enough space. My son is a drug addict and sister a cronic alcoholic. Alcoholism runs throughtout our family so maybe is all genetic, who knows!
To be honest Im the odd-bie out. I am small, no drugs, gambling etc and just live life. No probs with food (only eat when I have to but I will have the occasionally glass of wine on weekends) Its crazy but sometimes I feel guilty if i drink because of the whole family baggage.
Seeya Justjo

steve11694

Hi Tazman 53,

Good question and after the recovering alc's have provided us with their most gracious input in responding to our questions, here is my response.

Very interestingly recently a good friend that recovered from drug addiction many years ago who is currently a social drinker said the reason he drinks wine or beer, lets say with a meal is to get a "buzz" He was surprised to hear my rationale behind drinking with a meal.

Beer with lunch or better dinnner because at night I can sleep without having to be responsible. I usually avoid alcohol at lunch because it will make me tired, sleepy, etc. I don't refer to 6 beers either, 1 or 2 is enough to make me slow motion. I like to feel that I am in control of my thoughts, body and actions, rather than a substance. Drinking also interferes with sports in a negative way and can even be dangerous. Just one drink can significantly effect timing in surfing and can easily lead to injury. Although I am well past high school. being drug/alcohol unimpaired allows me to play full court basketball with the high school kids.

If I drink beer with a meal it is for 2 reasons. # I choose a good tasting beer # it quenches thirst. Getting a "buzz" is not in my mind.
The same goes for wine or an occasional coctail or on the rocks drink. I will not drink something that does not taste good just for a buzz.

At a previos job sometimes Friday after work we'd pool our money and buy a bottle of Chateau Margaux, Latour, or similar wine. We'd have cheese/crackers, sometimes salmon eggs and sour cream. One glass each was usually what the pooled fund got us, and not a very full glass either. These wines did indeed have quite an excellent taste. To the contrary an alcoholic may have simply emptied his/her savings account to buy multiple bottles for the "high"

At a social event I know if I drink too much I become tired and not able to be social therefore social drinking defeats its own purpose.

DesertEyes

Hey there JJ,

There is. It's called "benzodiazepines". These are chemical much like alcohol (Valium, Librium, etc.) Problem is that just like alcohol they create dependency and tolerance. It takes more and more chemical to give less and less effect until you wind up poisoning yourself.

A lot of the medical research says that it is. Although I don't know if they have yet found a gene for it.

It's the internet, there's _lots_ of space. If you care to, why doncha start a new thread of your own.

Mike