foregoodreasons

Quick summary: I'm a guy who's W has a sister who is married to an A.

I've been reading the book 'Getting them sober'. In the book it talks an awful lot about A's poor behaviors. Namely it mentions abuse (verbal and physical). It talks about the A blaming the spouse for their drinking and just problems in general. How they become selfish and self-centered.

Right now my BIL doesn't appear to be abusive in any way. He is definitely irresponsible and can't always be counted on to keep his word. But for the most part he is still polite, funny, and still gives of himself often enough.

Is it inevitable that as his alcoholism progresses that he will become more abusive, less forgiving, more self-centered, etc?

Or is it possible (not unheard of) for an A to continue to portray the same personality while the drinking progresses until he reaches bottom or worse?

I'm just wondering if there is something we can expect from him in the future. If there is maybe I can plant a seed in SIL's head to keep a watchful eye for the progressive (inevitable) signs.

I think currently my SIL is able to 'live' with the current conditions and therefore isn't ready (hit her bottom) to start looking for ways to help herself. I'm not sure she understands that his illness is progressive and nothing will remain the 'status quo'.

guyinNC

You can expect misery. He will progressively get worse, physically, mentally, socially. He will drink and his family will suffer. Eventually he will get a DWI, possibly lose his job, take his family into hell.

Educate yourself and SIL on alcoholism. Maybe try an intervention. But your SIL must be prepared to set boundaries and enforce them.

In the end, only he can stop his drinking.

queenteree

foregoodreasons:
Please read my post today about my weekend. You will see how this is a progressive disease that changes the person that you know. My husband was a wonderful, fun loving, kind, unselfish person, who just this weekend changed into someone I do not know. I never thought it would happen to me, I guess I will have to eat my words on that one. Please learn all you can cause there's a rough road ahead for your SIL. Maybe she should start making a plan now to get out, something I never did. And I should have known better, my A was sober for over 14 years and I never thought of him relapsing, so now there's twice I was stupid. Should I go for a third time (oh no, I think that sentence was another sign from my HP). Good luck to you and your family.
QT

Tazman53

I am an alcoholic, I got worse every year I drank, the only saving grace for my family is I was never a mean drunk very often, but towards the end I was getting there. As already stated, alcoholism is a progressive disease, the longer an alcoholic drinks the worse it gets, it never, I repeat never gets better!!!

If I started to drink again it would be as though I had never quit even though I may not have drank for 20 years! If I ever drink again I know my wife and if my kids are still around will be gone. If I drink again it will be like me putting a gun to myu head with a VERY slow bullet!

The earlier in an alcoholics drinking they stop the easier it is for them to stop, but this is a 2 edged sword, there are very few of us that even think we have a problem in the early stages of our disease. The quickest way for us to hit our bottom is to be allowed to as rapidly as possible. If I screw up and get a DUI, leave my butt in jail, make me bail myself out, make me get a lawyer and pay for it.

Every time I get into trouble make me dig my own way out of it. Go talk to a lawyer, get all of your ducks in a row, be ready to either throw my butt out or leave me. Tell me it is the bottle or you. Do not bluff me, if you tell me to stop or you are throwing me out nd I do not stop, you have to throw me out! My wife threw out her first husband, so when she told me either I stopped or her and the kids were gone I knew she was not BSing me!!!

I sat down and did a fast forward on my life without them, I quickly saw me losing every thing and drinking my self to death! I am scared of dying, I put myself into detox and then into AA with all my heart. I have not touched a drop in 7 1/2 months and can honestly say right now thanks to AA and my HP I could care less if I ever had a drink again.... but that is not a gaurantee, as a result my wife has a plan, if I slip, they are gone and I do not blame them!

queenteree

Hey Taz, Just curiously, what happens if the alcoholic never gets into any trouble to suffer consequenes of their actions, hence, they will never hit bottom. What happens then? It seems my AH never has to suffer the consequences of anything, he was warned at his job, but did he lose it? No. He drinks and drives all the time, but does he ever get caught? No. If I left him, he'd still have a comfy roof over his head while I stay at a motel or friend's houses, living out of suitcases. Who has it better? Him. I just don't get it. I so admire you for doing what you're doing, how far you've come in your recovery and staying sober so long. I honestly think you've got your head on straight, and you've been such a big help to me to give me the alcoholic's perspective, it's just too bad that all the rest of the alcoholics aren't like you. You sound like a wonderful person, father and husband. God bless you.

foregoodreasons

Thanks Taz.

I do want to post something in reply to your post but B4 I do that I want to ask QueenTree something. I've only got a minute here so I'll get back to you .... maybe tomorrow. Thanks Taz.

QT, I did read your thread. Someone asked you to get yourself into an AlAnon meeting. I assumed that meant you aren't attending currently. Is there a particular reason/excuse why you aren't?

Sorry to confront you on this but I'm curious why (just like my SIL) would you not do everything and anything in your power to change things for yourself.

In case you didn't know I, myself, have gone to a couple of AlAnon meetings and am going again tonight. Educate, educate, educate. What have I got to lose? Nothing. What have I got to gain. Everything.

I have to step away for the day but I will be back soon.

Taking5

Pardon the ignorance, but what is a W, a BIL and a SIL?

I don't want to hijack this thread, but even after a few months I know only a few of these abbreviations in the friends and family forums. I still feel like I am in another country.

i thought if I lurked long enough I would figure it out, but I guess not.

queenteree

Actually about two years ago I went to many Alanon meetings, I kept going back cause they said "keep coming, it works". It didn't for me. Maybe they were wrong meetings, but it was more of like a bible study group, one second of sharing, no feeback and not one person came up to me afterward to offer me their numbers, ask about a sponsor, etc. All it was was reading a passage, each sharing for like one minute, reading another passage, saying a prayer and it was over. I did try, but it didn't work for me. Instead, I got personal therapy for over a year, read lots about alcoholism and co-dependency and come here all the time. I actually was thinking of going to an Alanon meeting tonite (I don't want to go home straight after work). I'm trying a different county, so let's see what happens.

minnie

My ex was just as you describe your BIL to be. Well, to everyone else but me.......

mallowcup

This may be the worst news. It sure is one of the hardest things to deal with. It's like trying to keep your balance when the earth just rolls under your feet. You watch the clock never sure when or if they will come home. As time passes you wonder just how much you will have to forgive this time. Abuse comes in many forms. There is nothing more torturous than sitting up at 2am, 3am, 4am trying to convince yourself tha the isn't drunk and having sex with some bar hag. By 6am, you run out of tears and excuses.
You sit through the kids plays and dance recitals ticked that he missed it but petrofied he'll show late crap faced.
There are huges messages in the silence of his family.

denny57

I think Taz makes it very clear he was just like all the rest of "them" at one time. I'm a big believer in the "yet" statements, for both the alcoholic and the co-dependent. I thought I might get a say in the when, where and how of AH's bottom. I don't think that any longer and I'm the better for it.

LGLG07

dgillz , w - wife , sil - sister in law , bil - brother in law , mil - mother in law ..

My dad is an alcoholic , he was never abusive . he was always the life of the party and loved to be the center of attention . he worked 2 full time jobs to support my mom and 4 older sisters . we never wanted for anything but lived very modestly , way below our means . he was functioning and the two jobs he had (construction and cop, he worked midnights) made it very easy for him to indulge in his addiction .

when he turned 50 his disease seemed to progress over night , suddenly he was a stumbling drunk . he was verbally abusive to my mom and to me ( I was the only one home at the time ) . My mom was always walking him up the stairs to get him into bed or helping him go to the bathroom . The day after she left him on the kitchen floor was the day he started AA .

every alcoholics bottom is different , you never know what it will be . because things look great from the curb , doesnt mean the house isnt full of chaos . my house was and i was the last to know

Pick-a-name

The bad stuff gets progressively worse...at it's own rate. My exAH was a wonderful man and still is in many ways. I doubt that many people know he is an alcoholic. Actually,most people would be shocked if they knew how he drank when he was still at home and some of the things he did and said. Totally out of character. He is not stupid and still has enough control to hold things together for the most part at work,etc but at home the drinking started each night and as time went on, so did the behaviors. I guess what I am saying is your BIL could easily already act this way with his immediate family right now and you would not even know. Even if SIL mentioned it, if her experience is like mine, she loves him and does not want to tell others about this because they will either tell her to leave or else think she is exaggerating or maybe even "caused" to the problem.

Another important thing is "the Yets". I didn't take getting help seriously at first because AH was so well behaved,etc compared to the stories others told. Heck,there are still times on this board when I think...is it REALLY Alcoholism....he is still working,making good $, more organized than me (he is becoming more and more compulsive and controlling probably as he is losing more control of himself)...no dui,etc. Probably all "yets" and he is closer to many of them today than he was last year at this time,etc.

It does not ever just "get better and go away" by itself....it is always getting worse.

WhatAboutME

My AH was the happy-go-lucky drunk for almost 10 years before really going off the deep end. Don't get me wrong, his behavior and drinking was a problem, and he was confronted by his family, but to the "outside" he was fun to be around when he drank. I would call him a "functional" alcoholic during this stage. And yes, he did admit to having a drinking problem and being an alcoholic. He also had 2 long-term periods of sobriety - almost 1 year and 2 years respectively. With each relapse, his disease progressed significantly. His last relapse was 4 years ago in April. He is a binge drinker and will often go several days, maybe even a week or more without drinking. And each time he starts again, his drinking (quantities, etc.), behavior, verbal aggression and bizarre behavior is 10x worse than before.

My AH also never seemed to suffer consequences of his drinking. Never lost his job. Was arrested for a DUI, had it reduced to a DWAI, only paid a small fine and the incident was never reported to the DMV and does not even appear on his criminal record (we were living in a very, small rural town at the time and apparently the courst "lost his paperwork"). Continues to be a habitual drunk driver. Recently totaled his SUV and reported it to the insurance as being hit during the night while parked - The car was totaled due to the high-cost to repair and replace the parts on the car - He MADE money on the accident because the market value on the truck was higher than what he owed to the bank! Etc. Etc. Etc.

During the last 60 days, the sh&t has really hit the fan and he is finally suffering. Two inpatient rehabs, 4 visits to detox for a night or more, 2 nights in ICU with alcohol poisoning, lost not one, but TWO, jobs and will never be able to work in the industry again, is currently living with his parents with absolutely not a penny in the bank, cannot pay his credit card bills and all are currently more than 30 days past due = Bye, bye credit! And on, and on. No job = no health insurance and no money = waiting list of more than 4 weeks to go back to rehab. He has also slept outside on many, many nights during the past 2 months and has been picked up on 2 occassions by the police for public intoxication. And so on...

Can it get worse for your BIL? Yes. Will it get worse w/o treatment? Probably.

This disease is progressive, and to watch it progress is frightening, and very sad.

TexasGirl

Also, Fore, something to consider...
Maybe your BIL is acting a lot worse than even you see. You never know what is happening behind closed doors. You might see enough to know there is a significant problem, but not necessarily 100% of what's going on. My MIL was fully aware that my XAH had a drinking problem, but even when she would ask me about it to my face, I would downplay everything. Also, she didn't know about all the "behind the scenes" things, even though she was a big part of our lives and lived in the same town. She didn't know about the peeing, or the constant drunk driving, or the horrible names, or anything really bad. Just remember, you might only have half of the equation.

Sunflower

Has anyone ever known an A who made it through without losing their job/family and never bottomed out.I know of 2---both men--drank their whole lives-worked kept a family-no abuse-both died in their elder years-and not from the alcohol
They were both well liked in the community-there wives and kids worshiped them--heck I loved them myself.They took care of their families-no cheating-nothing always well dresses and very kind men.
I am just wondering.Go figure???And I am not making this up--they were alcoholics and everyone knew it.

Pick-a-name

Actually, many the A's in my exAH were kinda close to that (his Gpa.dad,uncle,etc).....but they were "sick" in the older years. Two were doctors. Looked good but several of them were put to bed each night,I am told. Physically,they had problems. One fell down the basement stairs and broke his back. They all added pills to the mix,I think and so could drink a little less and still get the buzz. In fact ex just told me he realized his dad is addicted to pain pills and why he is now in a nursing home. Oh;he fell and had to have a partial hip replacement last week...he is 83 and besides a mountain of pills, he brought vodka into his room for nightcaps!

One reason why exAH doesn't think there is a lot abnormal with his drinking and behaviors....

Sunflower

the 2 I knew--one died from lung cancer-smoked like a fiend--the other had a heart attack-quickly---and no drugs---fascinating?

GlassPrisoner

They keep drinking.

But, like others have pointed out, eventually the body gives up.

queenteree

Sad to say but that's what I was hoping with my AH. Unfortunately, I left him tonite cause I don't foresee it happening.