vujade

marry an alcoholic." Sigh...I just never saw this coming. But here I am. And this is my introduction. I hope you're comfy, because this got a lot longer than I intended. And, if you just can't face reading the whole thing, there are some questions at the end and I would really appreciate the input. TIA!!!

* * * *

For months I have been seeking out a place of support. I am familiar with virtual communities and the amazing support they can provide as I've posted on another board for eight years - totally unrelated to A. The women on that board are some of my closest friends, but I simply can't share this with them. They wouldn't understand. I'm hoping you will.

Good grief...I'm in tears already. Here it goes.

I'm married to a wonderfully caring and sensitive sober man. I am also married to an incredibly self-centered and disrespectful drinking man. I KNOW they are the same man, but it is so difficult to reconcile it at times.

We met 21 years ago when I was 14. We were teenagers in a small town and drinking was a part of everything we did. When I was 16, my family moved away and I kept loosely in touch with my old friends. At 25 and newly divorced, my path crossed with DH's again. Social life was new and exciting...and drinking was still very much a part of what DH and his friends did...and therefore, what I did. And we did a lot of it.

We married when I was 29 and we now have two children...ages 4 1/2 and 9 months. For a long time I thought DH's drinking and the partnering behaviors were just him lagging behind me a little in the natural progression of "growing up". Excuses I have made for him range from "He just hasn't settled into marriage" to "He just hasn't settled into parenthood" to "He just lives too close to his old friends from high school". I now believe that DH is an A and that "settling in" or "getting away" won't make a difference. I say 'believe' because I feel that you cannot label others, they have to own the identity and he does not yet. In his fear of losing me, in his desperation to make ammends for the previous night's indescretions, he will throw the word around. But there is no true ownership.

My DH has quit drinking several times. Most of the efforts last for a few months - just long enough to get away from the initial crisis and for him to feel that he can control his drinking. I could go on and on about specific instances, but I know you have all been there in some form or another. Different names, different children, different substances, but you have been there. So, in the effort to keep this under 72 pages, I will only address the most recent event which has triggered my presence here.

December 3, 2005, my DH walked in (and I used that phrase loosely) four hours late from a football game. He had stopped answering his phone after my first "Where are you?" call. He could hardly speak. He stumbled into the bathroom and fell onto the floor in front of the toilet. After a horrible night of me yelling and screaming, begging and pleading, threatening and accusing the next day was full of promises to quit drinking.

On April 4, 2006, we welcomed our second son into the world. I told my DH how fitting I thought it was that we were celebrating M's birth on the same day we were celebrating 4 months of his sobriety. He agreed. I was feeling pretty good about our newly completed little family.

On July 3, my best friend took me to lunch to tell me that my DH had been drinking with her husband and their friends for several months and she couldn't stand to see me look like such a fool anymore (ironically, her DH has a severe alcohol dependency...but somehow she only labels my DH as an alcoholic because her DH no longer gets "stumbling drunk" but I digress...). I talked with DH about it in a very compassionate and rational way...and he said wheras he had been drinking a little, my friend was making more of it than it was (I now see the "everyone else is the bad guy" syndrome here). I believed him. With a brand new baby, I suppose I just needed to believe him. Once the secret was out, he started drinking socially around me again and I foolishly believed it was all under control. He had finally "settled in" or whatever I was allowing myself to believe.

But now I know better. In the past month, I have uncovered a plethera of lies. After muddling through the new baby phase, I finally emerged and starting getting our finances re-organized last. I reconciled our accounts and found the all the odd credit card charges and cash withdrawls. Putting away baby stuff, I found the hidden cooler in the garage...and the one in the basement. Since around the time M was born, DH has been leaving me alone into the wee hours of the morning with a little boy and a new baby so that he could finish jobs and meet deadlines (he self-employed in construction). He would come home long after I was asleep and shower before coming to bed. Pieces started coming together and I realized that for such a smart woman, I was really stupid.

The proverbial straw occurred three weeks ago. I went to a job site unannounced at 11:00 p.m. and found him totally lit with a beer in hand...the breaker blew. But no tears and fireworks this time. I swear I could hear myself detaching like it was velcro ripping. I told him to shut down the job and get in the truck. We went home, I tucked in the kids, told him he wasn't welcome in our room, went to bed and slept soundly.

The next morning, DH confessed all the lies (although I still only believe he's telling the truth when he tells me he's lying) going back to last December. He called an alcohol treatment center and actually kept the intake appointment. However, three weeks later the letter they sent him assigning him to a group that begins January 9th after he completes his individual counseling appointment, sits untouched. I haven't asked about it or reminded him. I no longer see it as my job. Whereas I cautiously hoped that this was his turning point, I know now that it is HIS decision as to whether or not it is...not mine. It's freeing and frightening all at the same time.

After years of actively participating in this endless dance, I'm tired of working to make him a better person. I'm ready to work on me. What I have come to realize...FINALLY...is that I cannot control his behaviors, I can only control my reaction to his behaviors and I'm ready to do that. I used to say I was trying to provide a stable home for my children by attempting to control DH's drinking through crying, screaming and threatening. Like a hammer hitting me squarely in the noggin, I realize now that the best way to provide stability for my kiddos is to control MY behaviors! AHA!!! It's so clear now. After coming to these conclusions, I started searching for means of support and reinforcement and that is how I stumbled on this board.

I have no intention of leaving DH right now. I know that anyone not living with an A would tell me to leave. But, at this time, the pros of leaving don't outweigh the cons of staying. So, today is not the day for leaving. Even though New Year's Eve was a nasty disasterous mess...today is not the day. DH's latest "promise" to me (although I no longer ask/force him to make them) is to go to a meeting today. He either will or won't. I know that and I know it has nothing to do with me or our children as to whether or not he does. I hope he finds a path soon as even though TODAY is not the day...that day could come.

THANK YOU to all that made it this far. I figured even if no one reads this, I really needed to write it. But for those of you who did read through, this gives you some background on me. I'm certain I will have TONS of questions along the way. I know from being a permanent fixture on another board that it is hard for a newbie to chip her way in sometimes. Please forgive me if I seem too pushy, too chatty or too present in the beginning. I just really need to find a community and I'm hoping it can be this one.

Alright...the questions. Do I ask about meetings and such along the way if he doesn't offer? What should I do with this letter sitting on our counter? When he says "I'm going to have just one glass of wine tonight" or "I'm only going to drink at home/with you/at meals" what should I say?!?! I don't want to say "OK...good plan!" but I know I also can't be a hag about it. Finally...the $64,000 question...should I stop drinking???

NoChoice

I am fairly new here as well. What I have learned so is to take care of me. Put me first, get me some recovery to take care of me to provide me some serenity and peace. I know that I can't cure him. I know that he has a disease and he is doing the best he can right now. I know that I can't live like that no matter how much I love him. I have finally learned to watch his actions rather than listen to his words. Things became crystal clear when I did that, for me.

You sound good for such a confusing time. Keep coming back.

WantsOut

What I did in my situation is when he came in to ask me if he could drink, I told him I wasn't the beer police and he knew the consequences. I didn't want to get into the gatekeeper business.

When he would drink without asking about it, I would detach by going into another room and ignoring him. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but being isolated that way made me awfully broody and angry.

Once I made him a Word document with all the local AA meetings, the times, and links to mapquest maps from our house to each meeting place. Then I left it up to him except to ask once in a while, "Shouldn't you be going to meetings if you're trying to quit drinking?" I don't think he ever used it.

If you're going to stay you're going to face some dilemmas with your boundries. For example, classic alanon thinking would teach that you shouldn't stop a drunk from driving because if he gets arrested or in an accident he's got to face the consequences. In reality, you can't allow that to happen for a million reasons. So you end up hiding the keys, or watching for him to make a move for them, or whatever, and you spoil your entire detachment effort. I had a situation where my AH was waiting for a conference call but he was lit and slurring. We needed his job obviously and I didn't know what to do - enable and keep the family safe or let him take the call and potentially endanger us all. *sigh* Living with an alcoholic gets awfully complicated.

prodigal

Answers to your questions:
1) He knows how to call the local AA chapter or go online to find meetings in your area. If he starts going to meetings and wants to share what went on there, fine. If not, fine too. I never asked my AH and he rarely said much about his meetings.

2) Don't touch the letter on the counter. He knows it's there. You know it's there. He knows you know its there. What he does with it is his matter. If he wants to discuss it, fine; if not, fine. Yes, I am coming across advocating a laissez-faire attitude; however, it works because it will keep you from stepping into his mess and keep you sane - and detached.

3) He's only going to drink so much in a particular place and he announces it. Reply: "Okay." I've been through this same-old, same-old about a zillion times. I no longer say anything else about the matter because it does NOT matter to me. Whether I react or not, he's going to drink as much as he wants, when he wants, and where he wants. Period.

4) Whether you should stop drinking depends on you. If you stop, he may stop for awhile, but he'll start up again. I stopped drinking in early December because I'm on a diet. My AH stopped drinking completely for 11 WHOLE DAYS - like, wow, right? He was in a foul mood the entire time. Then he started bringing home a bottle of wine every night and chugging it down for his "happy hour." I drank on Christmas and New Year's Eve. After going so long w/o drinking, I didn't care for the sensation I got when drinking.

I would never stop drinking if I didn't wish to. However, I am not an A, so it's not a matter of my attempting to control my drinking. I found the longer I went w/o drinking, the less I even gave it a thought. Plus I've been looking at a drunk for the past four days who pretty much staggers around in a stupor or passes out on the couch. Lovely.

P.S. - Welcome! I don't think you will find folks here to be stand-offish. They've all walked in your shoes. I've been here for a long time and have always found folks to be quite helpful. Keep coming back. It's a good place to be. You and your H are from Kansas, I presume. I'm married to a small-town Kansas boy (Manhattan) and drinking was a favorite pasttime in his town. It's where he "officially" became an A.

denny57

welcome, SKW, glad you're here

Something I believe will help you greatly in the coming months is your sense of humor (and irony). Though I am divorcing AH, I would never advise you to leave. If you ever make that decision, you will hear the velcro rip twice as loudly.

I would suggest Al-Anon meetings for you while he is in AA. Even though you are already doing so much that is right (I'm at a loss right now how to word that without a right/wrong thing, sorry), it might be helpful to have others you can connect with face to face, and by phone, as you go through this - either his sobriety or attempts to cut back, etc.

Please keep posting and take care.

cmc

Welcome to SR! I'm so glad you decided to be a part of our forum. People here do understand what you are living with! I'm sorry you are in such pain but I do see that you are coming to terms with his alcoholism and you realize that it's his problem not yours. In Alanon I learned that I can only control my own behavior and it seems like you doing the same. I also learned to put some boundaries in place with clear consequences if those lines are crossed.
You have yourself and your little ones to consider.
As for how things go here on this site, you are welcome to join in with us from the start. There are many wonderful people who call this spot home, and now we can add you to the group.
Regarding your questions, only you can answer these, but I do know that by working on your own recovery those answers will come.
Take some time to read the stickys at the top of the forum page. You will find some helpful information there.
I'm sorry you have the need, but am so glad you found us.

deax

Welcome, SKW. Glad you're here.

When I was with my ex, I was so over-involved in his recovery, which he didn't want and was pacifying me, that I asked constantly about his meetings, forced him to go even when he didn't want to (and God knows where he might have really gone some of those times), and asked about the meetings afterward. I was enmeshed. I was his girlfriend, his mother and his sponsor all at once. He had been in and around recovery for sooooo lmany years way before me that he faked it like a pro. In the long run, I found out after we broke up that not only was he drinking through all this, he was smoking crack, never in my presence but when not in my company for a few days at a time. It was all so much worse than I knew, so all my "control" and "support" was an illusion and did absolutely nothing for his recovery, or his development of any genuine desire for it.

It was a sick relationship, I see now, and very self-serving on my part, being always superior. I wanted to love him all better too. Most of us here did. The need to be needed. But that's another story.

As you probably know, the first step for us in Al Anon is the same as it is for them. We need to admit that WE too are powerless over alcohol (and the alcoholic). For me, this was much easier said than done, and I thought I understood it before I actually did. If we are truly powerless over their disease, then nothing we do or don't do will make them want to stop. Recovery is an inside job, they say. Hands off the addict. So I say-- no, if he doesn't have the motivation intrinsically, then nothing you say or do, including forcing him to attend meetings, will change that.

There's a B-I-G difference between attending a meeting meaningfully, and kicking back on a folding chair in a church basement and drinking coffee for an hour or two. My ex was a pro at the latter.

Nothing. Start focusing on boundaries you need to set for yourself, to make your life easier and more acceptable while living with an active addict.

I think I'd say, "OK." Or, "Whatever." He's an alcoholic and therefore by definition can't control his problem. His denial makes him think otherwise and try to get others to believe the same. It's BS. You know that. So your response is ultimately irrelevant. Pay little attention. It's called quacking. They all do it. It's part of their dance with us. For the record, my ex was perfectly capable of having 1-2 beers at dinner and that's it. He was a binge drinker. His occasional "control" doesn't make him any less of an alcoholic.... they're all different... took me a while to learn that, too. Illusions. Denial is strong for them-- and for us.

Why should you? You're not the one who has a problem. Should the day come when he genuinely gets sober and he says it's an issue for him, that woud be a different story. My opinion, of course.

Best wishes to you. Sorry you have so much to deal with right now and that you had to seek out a place like this. But glad you're here. (hugs)

Cynay

Welcome SKW... Yep this the place for you and Im really glad you found us.

I have to say Im so impressed with where you are right now... you are SO much further along in recovery then I was when I arrived here...

I will start with trying to answer your questions ... this is only my opinion and what worked for me. I dont think anyone here would tell you to leave your husband, that is a very personal and private decisions.... but we can help you with the tools to keep sane.

1. No, I dont ask because that is a form of my trying to control the situation, by reminding him I am putting him in a position to be defensive. Its his life, he can choose to get help or he can choose to drink and loose everything.

2. Nothing, its not your letter. He knows its there and again its his choice.

3. Ok Dear works for me... inside my head its quack quack quack. You dont have to accept unacceptable behavior and you can set boundries but if he is going to drink he is going to drink.

4. Do you want to stop drinking? Whatever you choose to do will not change one single thing about him. You can stop and he is still going to continue.... this is not your issue, its his.... I would not change myself because of my partners issue. I would however change my behavior if my partner was working on soberity and my drinking wine with dinner was creating tension for him.

I so look forward to getting to know you. Read the stickies at the top and keep posting...

TexasGirl

Hi there,
You've gotten good feedback so far, but I want to throw in a couple of things. First off, welcome! You will feel right at home here. As for one of your questions....what to say when he says he's going to drink something....

I found that my AH would say something like that almost to see if he could get my permission, you know? I, like you, didn't want to make it seem like I was condoning it, but I also knew I couldn't change it. I started saying this, "Whatever you want to do is your choice and not mine." I made sure to say it as pleasantly as possible so that he couldn't try to interpret it another way and use it as an excuse to start. It worked for me. Glad you're here.

HolyQow

Stop apologizing already! (LOL)

You should fit right in, and have plenty of reason to be here.....The only thing I kept seeing is that you apologize for it being a long post, apologize for not knowing the answers, apologize for the refrigerator being blue (another post, I'll have to find it and have you read about that one)....anyways, I see someone that thinks their opinions/ideas/posts aren't as important. This is where the alcoholic starts.....they whittle away at your self-esteem until you have yourself guessing at yourself (if that makes sense)......they start blaming you for their drinking, they lie (you already knew that), and they manipulate, until there is not much left of yourself. Add children to that, and you have become so unimportant (regarding your own needs/wants) that one begins to think that they are only here for everyone else.

So when everyone tells you to start working on yourself, and forget about the A in your life, that's what we all mean. It doesn't mean that you have to leave him. It means that you will have a new way to deal with situations. A new focus (yourself) and a new peacefulness that comes with all of that.

Alot of ppl will tell you to join al-anon, which is great if you can. I personally don't think it's for me, as there is alot of religious aspects of it that I don't participate in (praying, higher powers, and such). I am also not too fond of sitting with a group of strangers, and telling my life story. On here, no one knows me, so it is more comfortable. So join what is most comfortable for yourself.

As for your "friend" that thought you should know that your husband was drinking behind your back......that did NOT make you look like an idiot, I think it makes her look like one because she doesn't think there is a problem with all of the drinking her husband does. You are way ahead of her, you already knew there was a problem, and you cannot control how well the A is at hiding it. The first person I ever spoke to about my AH's drinking, was my "best" friend. She laughed in my face, blew it off as nothing, and treated me like I was just stupid, excused AH's behavior as just being how men act.....well I guess her AH converting their fridge in the garage into a beer keg is just what men do? Drinking every day, before and after work, sometimes during, lieing, manipulating, and being hateful to everyone in sight, is just what men do? Sorry, I won't settle for that. I'll accept "scratch, fart, and spit", but that's it, I guess that's when I started to set boundaries on what I was or was not willing to accept. Sorry to say, that my friend and I hardly ever speak now. Maybe one day, when she can't take the sight of another beer can, she will call. Until then, we have SR because here is where people really truely understand.

Welcome.

Pick-a-name

SKW: welcome! Sounds as if you are well on your way to recovery already. So glad you have joined us!

You have already received lots of good information. One thing that has really helped in my recovery process is the great advice to actual situations,etc in the Getting Them Sober books by Toby Rice Drews. You can read some free "preview" chapters at http://GettingThemSober.com.

Keep posting with us,too...it has been a source of great information and comfort for me and I hope you will find it to be the same for you. Looking forward to getting to know you!

vujade

Thank you so much for your replies. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences. I know that no one can tell anyone else the "right" answer, but hearing what has worked (or NOT worked) for each of you is extremely valuable.

Texas Girl - I dig your line "Whatever you want to do is your choice and not mine" (sincere smile in place, of course). I'm totally stealing that one! LOL! Seriously, it is exactly what I feel. I know DH makes those statements to me because he is seeking out my approval. I don't want to be the "boss of him" anymore, but I also don't want to come across as condoning what I think is a bad decision. Perfect. Thanks.

Yeah. I have thought of many of the issues you brought up - especially the DUI issue. For now, I have set my personal boundaries and am trying to make arrangements to be as financially independent as I can in our marriage. DH is a kind man, even when drunk. We are in no danger, DH is not abusive in any way, and I have more control (there goes that "c" word again! LOL) over my children's environment and safety. But, like so many other families of A's, drinking/driving is a HUGE issue for us (D&D many times, only been caught once so far) and as long as I don't have to turn my children over for visitation, I can control their driver. Besides all of that, I truly love him. He is a gentle man with a good heart...but an alcoholic none-the-less.

I am very familiar with Manhattan. I live about an hour away from there...and a very similar good-old-boy feel to both towns. Drinking is really the primary activity these guys take part in with secondary activities like: golf, softball, fishing, hunting, etc.

Good point. I really hadn't allowed myself that autonomy. Guess that falls under the "his drinking is somehow my fault" category, huh? LOL! I enjoy an occasional glass of wine and I think I'll continue doing that.

HolyQow...I think my desire to be humbly respectful as a new person in the community came off wrong. LOL. I actually am a pretty strong-willed and self-confident person. I feel that if you don't know the answers, you ask. I feel no shame in not knowing and actually veiw learning as one of life's most worthy undertakings. However, I do always try to remain respectful. Maybe that unintentionally came off as apologetic. Sorry. LMAO!!!! *wink*

As for AlAnon, I'm completely comfortable telling my story, but I'm not a religious girl. Truth be known, I consider myself to be Agnostic and whereas I have the utmost respect for people of all faiths and belief systems, I'm not sure that the highly religious aspect of AlAnon would be a good fit for me. I do, however, find great value in cyber support. The just-in-time nature of it is perfect for my lifestyle and I've found that even with the lack of face-time, the support and feedback is invaluable.

Again, thank you so much for your replies. I am really ready for this step in my life and I look forward to getting to know each of you.

denny57

SKW, for what it's worth, I am also agnostic and practice the 12 steps. It's possible the meetings near you are highly religious, I don't know. But Al-Anon is a spiritual program, not religious, and I have found many like minded people there. Many of my friends from the groups are also religious, but no one pushes it. Just something to think about - face to face support has proved to be invaluable to me.

Good luck with everything.

Cecilia

others wiser than me have given you lots of good advice. The only thing I would like to add is that if you decide to stay you need to check the laws in your state to see where you stand in case he has an accident and he gets sued. You need to get as much in your name as you can. And in some states if you let them drive your car you can be held accountable too.

I dont know what to tell you about letting him drive. All I can say is mine caused a terrible accident and people died. Hes been in jail for a long time and we almost lost our house and everything.

lilac

Welcome to SR ! ! The people here are great !!!!! Keep posting, reading, etc.......I am like you in that I will apologize and apologize for something, I think it is from what we have lived with.

I think you sound very level-headed.......you realize that now is not the time to leave.....but you can begin detaching and working on YOU.....

Have you thought of an al-anon group? I have not been to many (just started a few weeks ago), but it might be an idea for you.

The working on me part , I have found difficult. But when people say that, they really are telling the truth.

Hope to get to know you better...