sisterray

this woman will tell you that she didn't give a crap about the patrons health, marriage, children, wife, job, or even if these patrons made it home alive and that's just not acceptable no matter what you do for a living.


Ok-that's not true. I did care. I just couldn't do much about it. I was the one who was always getting in trouble for calling wives, for watering drinks down. I can honestly say I never let anyone near alcohol toxicity to leave. I called cabs. I used my cell a few time to call police if they wouldn't give me their keys. I am not so heartless. And I did give a crap, thats why I quit. I am guilty of taking their money, for lots of other things, but not for not caring about the people's very lives.

Lori

sisterray

That aside, I do understand your feelings and pain. Like I said, I am on the receiving end more often than not now. I hope you don't see me as a heartless you know what. I'm not. Lori

LaTeeDa

It still remains a fact that nobody chains them to the barstool and pours the drinks down their throats. If you say 100 times you have to go pick up your kids, why aren't you leaving to go pick them up? What ever happened to personal responsibility?

sisterray

This has helped me. I set out feeling pretty crappy about myself because of my job. I have been journaling and thinking. You know what, if they stayed because I gave them attention and advice, or free drinks, they could have stayed and had a coke. I would have been just as willing if not more to give them one. I didn't make anyone an alcoholic. I know if my Jim can't get a bar to serve him, he is perfectly willing to go drink in a park or at a friends house. And my conscience is clear about letting anyone drive home that shouldn't have. That was one thing I was always very big on. I forgive me. Lori

denny57

You're awesome, Lori. ((()))

ok, then work it out here. i think it's great your journaling it, etc. I struggle sometimes to remember in the end I only have to answer to myself.

sisterray

Not all that awesome I guess, can't let this go-bugs me. As far as the law goes for knowingly serving someone who is intoxicated, unless they are given breathalizers regularly, what determines that? At any given time I'd guess at least 50 percent of people in a bar are over .08 which is legally drunk here. That's about two beers in an hour. I guess if that was enforced, and I don't know how it can be, there wouldn't be a bar business. Around here, more law enforcement fines are given out for smoking in bars that serve food. That seems odd to me.

embraced2000

car salesmen sell cars that have,,,,what is it??? 120mph on the speedometer?? but people don't travel that fast.

this is a very thought provoking thread.....i guess ones perception is their own reality. everyone has different degrees of what they consider immoral, or wrong, or whatever the right word would be.

that's what makes this world such a wonderful, wonderful place to be.

love to all
jeri

sketscher

I know I got in on this a little late.

At first when I read mallows post I was shocked that she seems to blames the bartender because everyone on here is always saying no one else causes someone to be an alcoholic.

BUT I can see her point about giving out free drinks, letting patrons stagger out of bars to drive home. It happens everyday! That is one of the reasons I used to like to be there for my exabf to drive him home. He's treated "very well" and held in high regard at his favorite bar. Not only is the bartender giving him drinks, his buddies will say buy a round, then he has to stay to buy them a round. But I think my disgust would be for the whole system. Maybe shouldn't be legal to drive to a bar. In my town there are enough to walk to one anywhere you live anywhere.

I, however, don't think a bartender should feel responsible for alcoholism. They didn't cause the disease anymore than anyone else.

sisterray

Thanks for all of your posts. I am ok with me in my mind now. Husbands, boyfriends who want to drink will do so, even if all the bars closed. I did what I knew how to do at the time, and managed to keep my house, which I bought on my own, pay my bills and raise my kids best I could. I stopped doing what I did because I didn't feel comfortable with it any more. I am not proud of what I did for a living, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it, or take responsibility for ruining lives. I just poured it, they drank it. And that was that. It would be nice if there could be a breathalizer on the the exit door of every bar. There isn't. It is great to be able to work stuff out though. I just hope my working stuff out didn't hurt feelings. Lori

mallowcup

That isnt what I said. I don't blame bartenders for alcoholism,. I don't think they help. I detest the fact that bartenders often develope "relationships" with patrons to keep them sitting there discussing the wives at home. Let me be clear. Alcoholics sit and babble to bartenders and bartenders keep them sitting there by pretending to be thier "friend". My husband and his bartenders have discussed me, my marriage, my sex life, my kids, my job, my income, our arguements and I'd like to know who the hell they think they are? They pour drinks all night long, and then have the gall to dump my husband in the driveway and expect a thank you. My husband just got a Christmas card today from a female bartender. HUH? I would have no animosity if bartenders did not actively attempt to oppose my prayers. This whole discssion reminds me of the discussion about participating in an execution. Th is topic just came up among nurses who start the IVs for lethal injection. In my mind you ar a part of the recovery and healing or you are a part of the disease. You will help me or work agaisnt me. You act in my husbands best interest or you don't. At the end of my life I wil anwser for me and my part. Alcoholics get alot of help drinking and when you know someone is an alcoholic and you put a drink in their hand, it is very poinient. How do you know they are an alcoholic? I think a bartender knows. Ok how, well, they serve them everyday, they are married wth kids and sit in a bar through dinner everynight, they get drunk everyday and the bartender knows you rname, your kids names, how much you make, and she lives in a hosue you paid for.

mallowcup

My husband and I know another couple who drinlk daily. The husband has a CDL license. He made big money that he put in long hours to earn. He and his wife are both alcoholics in my opinion. The husband had a heart attack and in his recovery, he IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DRINK. He stopped drinking but continued to sit in the bar with his wife while she drank in her same pattern. He started drinkig cranberry juice. I talked to the husband and he's a nice guy. He told me the heart attack scared him but he realized he had also been risking his CDL. I could tell he was getting sick of being in a bar. It wasn't a week later that I found out he was back in the hospital. His wife and the bartender thought it would be FUNNY to put vodlka in his cranberry juice. He had mentioned to me that he had not had a drink in a few 35 days which implies it was difficult or he wouldn't be counting the days. When he did drink, he drank alot and he was known for leaving big tips.
No one is entirely responsible for an alcoholics choices. I can't belive that everyone here hasn't dealt with a person who influences your mates drinking or not drinking. Their moronic friends, the sleezy bar women, the people who stop after work....recovery is a process that others either encourage or thwart. Everything can be headed in the right direction until that jackass relative or old friends shows up. I just can't bring myself to defend bartenders and minimize their contribution to the problem. When a person is drunk they don't have the ability to use good judgement and a bartenders goal is to get them drunk, keep them sitting there. Keeping them sitting there by offering free drinks knowing full well this person has a wife and kids at home is an outward intentional action. It is a personal afront to me because it is a challenge. It is a tug of war that becomes polarized. I am working toward sobriety and they are fighting me every step if the way. I used to drink and I know exactly how it all works. they pop tops on beers before you even ask for a drink, they give you quarters to put in the juke box, they do and say whatever they have to keep you sitting there. I guess I stand my ground on this battle because if I don't I would realize how pointless it is to fight this disease. It's easy to be detached when it is a bar where you don't become familiar with the patrons. Our towny bars are local. People know you. People know how he is when he's drunk, they know how many cars he's totalled, how much money he earns and how much he spends. I hope never to contribute in any way what so ever to some one breaking vows and childrens hearts, Sure alcoholics can find a drink somewhere else, the important thing is that they didn't get one from me.

embraced2000

i understand how alcoholism has affected our lives....this must be how war veterans feel that have fought together in battles, to have survived and so deeply mourn those that they lost. they know the toll that the war took on their own lives, they know how the war changed who they were, and i'm sure they share a soul connection that no others can understand.....just like us, those that have lived in alcoholsim.

we know how it has changed us, how it has made us who we are, we know how deeply it touched our spirits and how deeply into hell we ascended before trying to save ourselves.

i'm so grateful for all of us here, and how we can exhange ideas, beliefs, experiences....and i'm so touched when we can help each other, even when we agree to disagree.

love to all
jeri

mallowcup

I would also like to qualify my thoughts by sayng this, I am not speaking to this poster, she now realizes what being on the flip side is like, My intention is to speak to those who have jobs that encourage people to abandon theri convictions. I have had patients that are going through the DTs. I know I could end their torture temporarily if I slipped them a drink of alcohol. It's a tough think to watch a newborn in withdrawl or a 40 year old in the DTs and imagine that the person handing the drinks over the bar would ever do so if they thought for a minute they had a millionth of a responsibility in it. I'm glad this poster has made some changes and I feel so sorry for the inevitable nights she will sit home waiting for a husband that is having just one more"on the house".

LaTeeDa

I guess that really sums it all up. I DO realize how pointless it is to fight this disease, for I am not the one who has it...................

L

thejig

Lori......kudos to you for bringing this out. I believe it was Dolly Parton who quoted "When we share something painful, it cuts it in half, and when we share something joyful, it doubles it." So I hope that you sharing this has made you feel better. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks about you....it is ultimately between you and God. Hopefully you can move past this guilt now and make a living amends to yourself and the world.
Love,
Jig

lilac

Embraced is right ! You could get rid of every bartender in the world, and the alcoholic would still find a way to get a drink.....................

Do not blame yourself.......You did what you could at the time you had your job.........Those people were all adults, you were not responsible for them.

I do applaud you for calling the police when some of them were plastered and should not have been driving.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

embraced2000

i agree with lilac....be kinder to yourself.

wish i could quit thinking of examples....smile.....k gang....here's one.....prostitution.

now, who is the most responsible party in an agreement between two adults....the person paying for the sex??? or the person charging for sex???

do you think that in our society, the person charging for the sex is more harshly judged and sterotyped than the person paying for the service???

depending on our position in these two theoritcal persons lives, we could think the prostitute is the person making our loved one stray from us and the prostitute should be severly punished........or we could think that the person paying for the sex is causing the supplier of the service to be a prostitute.

either way, imo, it just doesn't matter.....they both made the decision....they are consenting adults.....the behaviors are risky, disruptive and damaging to families of loved ones, but they both made the decison to engage in the practice.

and now i have absolutely no idea where i was going with this idea....totally lost my train of thought.....well, it made sense at the time.....lol

im gonna post it anyway, so you will all now know for sure that i am a very sick person in need of this recovery forum....

thank you....and good night....

or, good afternoon...lol

love to all
jeri

marriedithink

I agree.....what about ,if you have to go pick up your kids .....What the hell are you doing in a bar????????
I was a bartender for years. I was very careful about who I served and how much. The state I lived in at the time had very strict serving rules, and I cared. But I still served. Ultimately it wsn't my responsibilty. I have never blamed a bartender for my AH's drinking. It doesn't matter where he gets it. He gets it and that's up to him.

sisterray

I'm ok with it. I worked through it. Thank you all again for the chance to tell someone other than him how I am feeling! Lori

mallowcup

If it were just a matter of alcohol I'd agree. In my particular case, the female bartender I had trouble with went out of her way to make my husband think he was interesting and attractive when he drank. She implied very strongly that she enjoyed his company, that his drinking was not a problem, she fed him drinks to keep him there making him believe that her flirting was sincere, that he was someone she'd actually be interested in him as a freind or a love interest. I think he thought he had found that his drinking was my problem because she had no problem with it. She was younger and prettier and so it wasn't just the alcohol, it was the disregard she had for me, my marriage and the lie she let my husband believe. She made it impossible for me. He wasnt there for just the drinks and she knew it. She intentionally made herself everything I wasn't and she knew that too. She went out of her way to make herself a possibility in his mind.
m not sure how this post got turned around, I didn't come here trying to I'm make anyone feel bad. The poster came here and told us exactly how it is with female bartenders and male patrons. Maybe she could comment on cleavage, flirting, laughing at stuff that isn't funny, etc. The alcohol is one thing.