minnie

Sarah, hon, that really isn't true, that's what Five, Eq and I are trying to point out. Of course, it depends how you define "program"........

elizabeth1979

By program I meant, not on their own without some sort of recovery.

I was really referring to recovery, not sobriety.

Five

said what I got to say.

Love the sig Elizabeth. Dont know if its a sign of intellegence, but it makes life a whole lot easier.

elizabeth1979

Thanks 5.
I think the sig line would read more to my belief system if it read maturity, instead of intellingence...

It is what it is I suppose.

Five

Its a nack, I think. Comes with time and practice. I have not had severe anxiety or depression since I learnt it. What used ot last an hour, now lasts about five minutes.

LaTeeDa

Well, my husband and I are both recovering without a 'program.' And I don't think we are anywhere near so special that I would define as 'next to impossible.'

I believe people need to discover there is a different way to live. Whether they do that through AA, some other program, counseling, reading a book, or just waking up one day and having an epiphany. Once you learn that life can be different than it is, and you set about to change it, you are recovering. (At least by my definition.)

Programs and steps and counselors and sponsors are tools. Some people can build wonderful things with just a hammer and a screwdriver. Others need an entire shop of power tools just to make something little.

L

equus

Sorry elizabeth, I'm even more confused and I do think tthis matters. You were refering to recovery not sobriety, which isn't possible without recovery?

I've got brain ache this pm - so I might be missing the point, just very confused....

equus

Away from the question of programs and back to recovering from alcohol dependency and abuse - YES it does happen...

Here's an NIAAA news release from early last year:
2001-2002 Survey Finds that Many Recover from Alcoholism: Researchers Identify Factors Associated with Abstinent and Non-Abstinent Recover.

Full article: http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/...s/Recovery.htm

upanddownjj

Five - I hear you - My Mother is 34 years in AA and I don't want what she has..there are many "sick" people there too..I have been in AA for 7 yrs...but I actually "work" the 12 steps in my life and am changing...Some people do the work and change...some people just don't drink..Does that make any sense to you??? I'm not meaning to argue your position...Just adding information you may not have....xo Hugs Janni

equus

Hey guys!! (ok now I sound like a muppet!!) I did a little hunting round and found this:
STABILITY OF REMISSION FROM ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE WITHOUT FORMAL HELP from the Oxford Journal of Alcohol and Alcoholism. (abstract only)
I added the red!! Reference: http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...urcetype=HWCIT

pmaslan

Hey Minx, back to your original post...thanks for sharing
this wonderful story with us....
it was good enough for me too....

denny57

I've learned I can find any journal, scientific study, religious book, secular tenet, etc. to back up any point I want to make. The nice thing about my recovery is I have so very few points I want to make any more. Except the most important one: make the best life for myself because as far as I can prove this is the only one I get.

My education and learning has gotten me to a place where I believe the best I should/can/would/try to do is observe my own life, my own experience living with alcoholism and base my decisions for my life on that.

I loved my AH with all my heart. He is an addict who has not yet chosen sobriety. I made a choice. Everyone has them.

equus

I've learned through my home, through life, through my own experience the point I was making. However I don't find it so easy to back any point with solid reference, but where's there's one most likely there's two and so on.

This post is about hope - something so important, both to those who's loved ones chose a program and to those of us who's loved ones succeed without. It's a reminder, what's been added is a reminder to us who see it's validity day in and day out.

It's that simple really the reminder is for all. While there's suggestion our story is less real I'll post evidence otherwise - because I remember when I could really have used just that.

It's for all of us..... Whether we stay or leave, whether someone chooses a program or not...

Reminder that sometmes they do get sober

DesertEyes

Here's what works for me.

"Recovery" means to maintain or return to a life that is happy, joyous and free.

"Program" means the specific actions taken to attain that life that is happy, joyous and free.

In the context of addiction / alcoholism it means that all the people affected by somebody's addiction / alcoholism need to take action in order to "find" that life.

On this forum there are abundant examples of all the many differnt ways people go about reaching that "recovery". Some people stay with their addict, some leave. Some people go to church, some go to shrinks, some go to doctors, some join any one a zillion organizations, etc., etc.

One way or another, there _is_ a way out of the horrors of addiction. The people on this forum show that there are many, many ways out.

The one thing that is common to all the people who find a way out is that they all take _some_ kind of action. Doing _nothing_ results in _nothing_. Which actions are useful to a particular individual is something that each one of us has to figure out on our own.

I know many many addicts and alcoholics who have gotten sober and "recovered". I also know just as many family members who have "recovered" their own lives. There is a way out of the pain. Browse around here on SR and you will find several people who have found a way out that will fit your particular needs. Read their posts, ask them questions and then take the actions that they took.

That's what i have done, and I have had a life that has been wonderful beyond description in spite of all the stuff that the world has thrown at me.

Mike

blizzard77

Thanks five for the definition of what a dry drunk is. My AH possess or is everything you said. He's been "sober" for 5 1/2 months but not working his program. I still have hope though. He went to two AA meetinings yesterday and seemed more alive than I've seen him in weeks. The last time I saw that was after the last AA meeting he attended. It also helps that I'm learning that I too have character defects that have contributed to "our" disease. I don't mean ours together as one disease but rather two sick people that have a similar disease. I work my program, he works his. I at my pace, him at his pace. I still have hope that we may be able to participate in a healthy relationship with eachother but I don't obsess about it anymore. I don't play God anymore ( or at least not as much...I'm new at this, he is too.) Only our higher power knows but if I keep showing up and doing the work I will continue to get better. There are many RAH out there and many more to follow. I hope and pray for all of them.

blizzard77

I'm not one of those people that believe AA is the only way out or alanon is the only way out. It just seems to be working for me and for AH when he does attend meetings. Infact since AH does not believe in God, he said he found his higher power to be meetings. He explains this as ten people are stronger than one person doing the job alone. At least that's what his view was fresh out of rehab. I partied hard in my twentys up until I was 30 and got a DWI. Being hand cuffed on the side of the road was enough for me to never drink again. I didn't have a problem quitting, I didn't crave a drink after that night. I never went to AA. Does that make me a dry drunk? I don't think so. I believe that I was a problem drinker so the best solution to get rid of the problem was not to drink. My AH brother and uncle still tell me I'm in denial and I can't admit my alcoholism.
I still go out to parties and things where alcohol is readily available and am content with my diet coke. It does get rather aggervating when everyone around you is stumbling drunk, staggering. slurring their words and repeating the same things over and over but I don't judge how others choose to have a good time, it's just not my idea of a good time anymore.

meli2005

thanks for sharing a positive story. I think sometimes these people need to lose the one they love in order to see the consequences of their drinking. There are happy stories, good to hear it..

slshuman

Yesterday, my AH reached 16 months sober. We separated in October 05 after he had been "dry" for about 6 months. In January 06, he embraced recovery and starting working a program--the changes in him have been incredible.

I have been a grateful member of Al-Anon 16 months as well. However, I didn't really embrace my own recovery until after our separation. The changes in me are no less incredible.

We have recently decided to continue with the separation, but we are now "dating" each other (my term). Yesterday, we met and had something to eat before his meeting and we talked--really talked--for about an hour. 16 months ago, I never thought that would be possible--heck, I didn't think it would be possible 10 months ago.

I keep my side of the street clean (or try to), remind my self that the goal is "Progress Not Perfection" and to "Trust the Process." Today, I have hope--something I lost a long time ago and I am thankful to my HP that I have found it again.

denny57

slshuman - I love your share and am thrilled for the both of you. ((()))