Newbie: The Perfect Couple
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Newbie: The Perfect Couple
Hi guys.
Well, here it is. I have been dating my AB for 5 years now. He has been sober for 3 yrs (with 1 slip). He hit rock bottom, and I tumbled down with him, determined to stand by his side. More importantly, to stand by his precious little boys side (he was 2 at the time, now is 7)
We started our lives over. After 2 years of sobriety, We moved into a beautiful big dream home, we picked out an engagement ring, we booked a wedding venue, my family was starting to get on board after years of refusing to support my decision, his job took off, he was happy, I was happy, most importantly his little boy was happy. Hope abounded. Love conquered all! Not quite...
He has now decided he is no longer an alcoholic. He says that "people change their minds". He thinks he can handle having a couple drinks with the guys. He feels he has control over it all.
I know better than that.
I have been sick with strep and high fever. He watched me drag myself to the store to get soup and medicine. He could care less that I was sick. He had relapsed. It was like he switched personalities and reverted back to his old ways, with only 2 drinks. (Which he lied about the tiniest details of the incident, the details that didn't matter.)
Since he told me he is no longer an alcoholic, I told him that I could not marry him. He became defiant and was/is in total denial. He started moving his things out that evening. I did not cry. I was too sick to cry. I was in disbelief. Obviously, something is going on in his tormented little world that he is not willing to address.
Pieces of me actually felt relief that I would no longer have to panic or worry for our "hypothetical" children. We have definitely been working on building trust, which is gone now.
My greatest concern is his son. He has no positive role models in his life. I am his "person" and he calls me his stepmommy. He is mine. And he adores me, the doggies, having his own awesome bedroom upstairs with real bunk beds, all the neighborhood friends, and more. How was my soon-to-be fiancé going to possibly explain this so that his son would understand I didn't abandon him? What do I do? I know I can get over an adult, but how do I let go of this totally innocent and pure child? I feel like my duty is to surround him with love and protection, he already has so many tragedies to work through at such a young age. My heart is breaking...
My friends were shocked, after all we had been through. The support from loved ones was pouring in.
Fast forward to 2 days later. I called him to let him know what time he could come pick up the rest of his stuff. The conversation turned to him apologizing profusely and begging me to consider going to Couples Therapy.
He says he is sorry, that this is a pattern, that he sabotages everything and he doesn't know why. He said he also feels trapped by having the alcohol rule placed on him. That it is too much pressure and he can't keep setting expectations he can't fulfill. I feel like he has had plenty of time and chances to work through it, but I am madly in love with this man. SO. MANY. CHANCES. SOOOO much forgiveness. He is literally perfect in every single way, other than his one major flaw: alcoholism. A flaw that he doesn't acknowledge anymore.
We built SO much over the past 5 years. We are both 34, ready to settle down and have babies. We have it all. And he didn't even think twice about exploding our world. I felt completely blindsided. I feel scared. I feel as if I pushed a giant rock up a giant hill, and he just let it roll right back down the other side.
My family has completely detached from me and him getting back together. My friends have various opinions. I am rocking back and forth in my mind.
I have never walked away from anyone. I fight till the death. I need to know, from your experiences, am I fighting a losing battle? What is the best thing for me, for him, for his little boy?
My heart says one thing, my head says another. I believe in him, but I cannot trust this disease. What do I do? Shoot me straight! PLEASE. Thank you so much for reading.
Well, here it is. I have been dating my AB for 5 years now. He has been sober for 3 yrs (with 1 slip). He hit rock bottom, and I tumbled down with him, determined to stand by his side. More importantly, to stand by his precious little boys side (he was 2 at the time, now is 7)
We started our lives over. After 2 years of sobriety, We moved into a beautiful big dream home, we picked out an engagement ring, we booked a wedding venue, my family was starting to get on board after years of refusing to support my decision, his job took off, he was happy, I was happy, most importantly his little boy was happy. Hope abounded. Love conquered all! Not quite...
He has now decided he is no longer an alcoholic. He says that "people change their minds". He thinks he can handle having a couple drinks with the guys. He feels he has control over it all.
I know better than that.
I have been sick with strep and high fever. He watched me drag myself to the store to get soup and medicine. He could care less that I was sick. He had relapsed. It was like he switched personalities and reverted back to his old ways, with only 2 drinks. (Which he lied about the tiniest details of the incident, the details that didn't matter.)
Since he told me he is no longer an alcoholic, I told him that I could not marry him. He became defiant and was/is in total denial. He started moving his things out that evening. I did not cry. I was too sick to cry. I was in disbelief. Obviously, something is going on in his tormented little world that he is not willing to address.
Pieces of me actually felt relief that I would no longer have to panic or worry for our "hypothetical" children. We have definitely been working on building trust, which is gone now.
My greatest concern is his son. He has no positive role models in his life. I am his "person" and he calls me his stepmommy. He is mine. And he adores me, the doggies, having his own awesome bedroom upstairs with real bunk beds, all the neighborhood friends, and more. How was my soon-to-be fiancé going to possibly explain this so that his son would understand I didn't abandon him? What do I do? I know I can get over an adult, but how do I let go of this totally innocent and pure child? I feel like my duty is to surround him with love and protection, he already has so many tragedies to work through at such a young age. My heart is breaking...
My friends were shocked, after all we had been through. The support from loved ones was pouring in.
Fast forward to 2 days later. I called him to let him know what time he could come pick up the rest of his stuff. The conversation turned to him apologizing profusely and begging me to consider going to Couples Therapy.
He says he is sorry, that this is a pattern, that he sabotages everything and he doesn't know why. He said he also feels trapped by having the alcohol rule placed on him. That it is too much pressure and he can't keep setting expectations he can't fulfill. I feel like he has had plenty of time and chances to work through it, but I am madly in love with this man. SO. MANY. CHANCES. SOOOO much forgiveness. He is literally perfect in every single way, other than his one major flaw: alcoholism. A flaw that he doesn't acknowledge anymore.
We built SO much over the past 5 years. We are both 34, ready to settle down and have babies. We have it all. And he didn't even think twice about exploding our world. I felt completely blindsided. I feel scared. I feel as if I pushed a giant rock up a giant hill, and he just let it roll right back down the other side.
My family has completely detached from me and him getting back together. My friends have various opinions. I am rocking back and forth in my mind.
I have never walked away from anyone. I fight till the death. I need to know, from your experiences, am I fighting a losing battle? What is the best thing for me, for him, for his little boy?
My heart says one thing, my head says another. I believe in him, but I cannot trust this disease. What do I do? Shoot me straight! PLEASE. Thank you so much for reading.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
OH!!! Do I feel your pain...
If he doesn't get to step one and start working his program, you don't have much of a future. I had 14 years with my mate when we finally fell apart.
Now I am starting to uncover evidence that he has been unfaithful to me at least part of the 14 years. That usually happens in alcoholism, you know.
If this is what you want, you can choose that life. However, I have never know the spouse of an active alcoholic that stayed, who was ever happy.
I hope you started in AlAnon yesterday. I cannot recommend it enough. Good luck to you!
If he doesn't get to step one and start working his program, you don't have much of a future. I had 14 years with my mate when we finally fell apart.
Now I am starting to uncover evidence that he has been unfaithful to me at least part of the 14 years. That usually happens in alcoholism, you know.
If this is what you want, you can choose that life. However, I have never know the spouse of an active alcoholic that stayed, who was ever happy.
I hope you started in AlAnon yesterday. I cannot recommend it enough. Good luck to you!
Last edited by Eauchiche; 06-18-2015 at 08:49 PM. Reason: typo
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Thanks for the response. Wow, 14 years? At what point did you finally realize it was over, and how did you move on?
I am thinking about going to an Al-Anon meeting tomorrow for the first time. I drove by one last week and chickened out, thinking I couldn't possibly be this low. But I keep reading on here how empowering and healing it is.
Does anyone know of some beautiful, amazing retreats? I am in Austin and it is so dang hot, so somewhere with a breeze and not sweltering heat would be preferred! Can't wait to get to know everyone better🎉 here we go!
I am thinking about going to an Al-Anon meeting tomorrow for the first time. I drove by one last week and chickened out, thinking I couldn't possibly be this low. But I keep reading on here how empowering and healing it is.
Does anyone know of some beautiful, amazing retreats? I am in Austin and it is so dang hot, so somewhere with a breeze and not sweltering heat would be preferred! Can't wait to get to know everyone better🎉 here we go!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Welcome to SR Slippy,
Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie? This is a very good overview of codependency. If you are not currently brave enough to get inside of an Al Anon meeting, the book is a very strong start.
I knew the location/time of several meetings for a few weeks before I made it. Joining SR and posting for me was an even greater resource. I also went to a counselor which helped me work through my muddled brain. Seeing a counselor helped me ensure it was my decision and it was not what my friends were telling me to do...
You cannot fix the broken thing in your partner that makes him sabotage the good things in his life. You cannot stop him from the cyclical nature of using or his denial. You cannot save him. If you stay it will be a fight to death. You gave his son stability for some very important years of development, but you need to make the decision to save yourself rather than sacrifice yourself. You said you fight to the death. Should it really be that hard?
This man isn't ready for settling down and starting a family. He is willing to snow himself about a cunning disease. The destructive force will always be within him.
There are a lot of snickered posts at the top of the active threads. Lots of wisdom there.
Peace.
Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie? This is a very good overview of codependency. If you are not currently brave enough to get inside of an Al Anon meeting, the book is a very strong start.
I knew the location/time of several meetings for a few weeks before I made it. Joining SR and posting for me was an even greater resource. I also went to a counselor which helped me work through my muddled brain. Seeing a counselor helped me ensure it was my decision and it was not what my friends were telling me to do...
You cannot fix the broken thing in your partner that makes him sabotage the good things in his life. You cannot stop him from the cyclical nature of using or his denial. You cannot save him. If you stay it will be a fight to death. You gave his son stability for some very important years of development, but you need to make the decision to save yourself rather than sacrifice yourself. You said you fight to the death. Should it really be that hard?
This man isn't ready for settling down and starting a family. He is willing to snow himself about a cunning disease. The destructive force will always be within him.
There are a lot of snickered posts at the top of the active threads. Lots of wisdom there.
Peace.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Slippy, I'm afraid that the statistics aren't good. Are you ready for a lifetime of looking over your shoulder waiting for the other shoe to drop? That's what it will be like. And right now, he's not even willing to accept that he's an alcoholic. And I know I know... your clock is ticking. It just SUCKS and the disease ruins everything for everyone. Is the little boy's mother in the picture? I feel for you there... hopefully two year olds can be pretty resilient?
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I know for me from my personal experience that I just didn’t fully understand that “addiction” will always be a lifelong battle for them.
I think I would mainly focus on the immediate turmoil of the relapse when it was happening and that long term prospect didn’t readily enter my thoughts. Then by the time it did enter my thoughts he’d be in rehab or attending meetings, working a program so once again that long term prospect of having to think about “addiction” as lifelong once again was not in my immediate thoughts. But by the time the slips started happening that was the only thing on my mind – do I want to spend the rest of my life worrying, spying, un-trusting and my answer was no I do not. When his 3rd major relapse happened I ended the relationship and the closed the door on that chapter in my life.
As you mentioned active A’s become a whole other person, someone we usually do not want to be around. And they are master manipulators – MASTER manipulators (don’t forget that) they will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to get their needs met. He doesn’t want to move and deal with all of that so he’s going to beg, plead and tell you everything that will work to keep things just as they are.
Now, the child is a heart wrenching issue that maybe needs to be address with a professional. Either via his school, private therapy even if you decide not to continue with the relationship with his dad you talking with a professional regarding all of this with the child and your concerns and feelings, would help you and possible him.
It’s always recommended to pay more attention to their actions then their words. From my own personal experience I never allowed enough time to sit back and witness him and his recovery efforts long enough before jumping right back into the relationship. I think had I taken the advice to separate for 6 months to a year I would have seen the bigger picture instead of continuing to struggling inside of it.
I think I would mainly focus on the immediate turmoil of the relapse when it was happening and that long term prospect didn’t readily enter my thoughts. Then by the time it did enter my thoughts he’d be in rehab or attending meetings, working a program so once again that long term prospect of having to think about “addiction” as lifelong once again was not in my immediate thoughts. But by the time the slips started happening that was the only thing on my mind – do I want to spend the rest of my life worrying, spying, un-trusting and my answer was no I do not. When his 3rd major relapse happened I ended the relationship and the closed the door on that chapter in my life.
As you mentioned active A’s become a whole other person, someone we usually do not want to be around. And they are master manipulators – MASTER manipulators (don’t forget that) they will tell you whatever you want to hear in order to get their needs met. He doesn’t want to move and deal with all of that so he’s going to beg, plead and tell you everything that will work to keep things just as they are.
Now, the child is a heart wrenching issue that maybe needs to be address with a professional. Either via his school, private therapy even if you decide not to continue with the relationship with his dad you talking with a professional regarding all of this with the child and your concerns and feelings, would help you and possible him.
It’s always recommended to pay more attention to their actions then their words. From my own personal experience I never allowed enough time to sit back and witness him and his recovery efforts long enough before jumping right back into the relationship. I think had I taken the advice to separate for 6 months to a year I would have seen the bigger picture instead of continuing to struggling inside of it.
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Thank you guys, for your responses so far. I am already humbled that you would take the time to share, it is heartwarming. Thank you.
I just finished the book "Codependent No More" and I was sad when it ended. Logically, it all makes sense. I know what I have to do. There is no way around this, but through it.
It is rainy here, so I am dedicating the day to rest and recoup from being ill, and soak in all the knowledge and wisdom that lies before me.
The mind is a beautiful thing. As is the heart.
As for the XAB, I caught him in another white lie last night. I called him out, and all he could say was "I don't know. I don't know." I have so much love for this human, and nothing I say or do will help him. I feel guilt for he will feel abandonment after already having abandonment issues...but as you said, I need to SAVE myself instead of SACRIFICE myself. I think for many, that sounds selfish. It does for me, because I was always taught that true love is staying and working it out. But that is not working...leaving is the only thing I haven't tried. I am not giving up on him, I believe in him, I just do not trust his alcoholism and cannot bring babies into the world knowing what he is capable of.
Does anyone know of a great Al-anon wellness retreat center? Everything is so charged right now...it would be nice to have something like that to look forward to and to escape the TX heat for a little bit. Open to suggestions!!
In the meantime, I will go to an Al-Anon meeting...baby steps.
Thank you thank you thank you!
I just finished the book "Codependent No More" and I was sad when it ended. Logically, it all makes sense. I know what I have to do. There is no way around this, but through it.
It is rainy here, so I am dedicating the day to rest and recoup from being ill, and soak in all the knowledge and wisdom that lies before me.
The mind is a beautiful thing. As is the heart.
As for the XAB, I caught him in another white lie last night. I called him out, and all he could say was "I don't know. I don't know." I have so much love for this human, and nothing I say or do will help him. I feel guilt for he will feel abandonment after already having abandonment issues...but as you said, I need to SAVE myself instead of SACRIFICE myself. I think for many, that sounds selfish. It does for me, because I was always taught that true love is staying and working it out. But that is not working...leaving is the only thing I haven't tried. I am not giving up on him, I believe in him, I just do not trust his alcoholism and cannot bring babies into the world knowing what he is capable of.
Does anyone know of a great Al-anon wellness retreat center? Everything is so charged right now...it would be nice to have something like that to look forward to and to escape the TX heat for a little bit. Open to suggestions!!
In the meantime, I will go to an Al-Anon meeting...baby steps.
Thank you thank you thank you!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
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True love is staying and working it out. But addiction throws all the cultural norms, morals and religious beliefs on love out the window.
As for a retreat center, do you have any equine therapy programs by you? I think it would teach you a lot about yourself and be a lot cheaper than a rehab place that has a codependency program. I think a yoga retreat center that teaches meditation would be cool too. But these are just my own personal interests. I don't know of an Al Anon retreats.
Get over your strep. Rest. Stick to your truth. Hugs.
As for a retreat center, do you have any equine therapy programs by you? I think it would teach you a lot about yourself and be a lot cheaper than a rehab place that has a codependency program. I think a yoga retreat center that teaches meditation would be cool too. But these are just my own personal interests. I don't know of an Al Anon retreats.
Get over your strep. Rest. Stick to your truth. Hugs.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,391
I am so sorry. Even when we know it is the right thing to do, ending a relationship is difficult.
My marriage ended after 15 years due to my addiction. I couldn't bear to imagine him looking over his shoulder and wondering so I ended it, although he filed for divorce, I took the situation head on and seriously ended what I felt had been me abusing him emotionally for years.
I grew up with an alcoholic Father and for years blamed everyone else but him for the things that had happened in our lives. He is sober today-for three years and being in recovery myself, I understand him but I still mourn the life I could have had, if his alcoholism had not been an issue, if my Mother had not enabled him, etc. etc.
My ex-husband has found someone new, and so have I. Our children deserve two happy parents and neither of us were going to be happy for a long time, if ever, if we had stayed married.
My thoughts are with you as you navigate this path. May you find the peace that you need.
My marriage ended after 15 years due to my addiction. I couldn't bear to imagine him looking over his shoulder and wondering so I ended it, although he filed for divorce, I took the situation head on and seriously ended what I felt had been me abusing him emotionally for years.
I grew up with an alcoholic Father and for years blamed everyone else but him for the things that had happened in our lives. He is sober today-for three years and being in recovery myself, I understand him but I still mourn the life I could have had, if his alcoholism had not been an issue, if my Mother had not enabled him, etc. etc.
My ex-husband has found someone new, and so have I. Our children deserve two happy parents and neither of us were going to be happy for a long time, if ever, if we had stayed married.
My thoughts are with you as you navigate this path. May you find the peace that you need.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Your post is very interesting to me SlippyCoco. My husband suffered with a drug addiction but moved past it almost two years ago. He hasnt stopped drinking alcohol but so far has not had any issues with it. The doctors explained how the brain holds this memory of drug use and he will always have some greater risk of relapsing on substances. I think statistically its around the same rates as chronic illness like diabetes or asthma. I can relate to what you are saying though. Basically it sounds like you dont want to take on the risk of relapse or go through another recovery phase, or worry about having kids with him if you were married and should have to divorce. I think its good to look honestly at your emotions, needs and wants. Its not fair to either of you if your carrying this fear or know you dont want any more hard times. He cant guarantee it. So if you know these feelings before your married, then you shouldnt get married IMO. I was really terrified of my husband relapsing for a while there. what we went through was really bad with his health, finances, lies and cheating. But then in the therapy session, the doctor reminded me there is no reason to believe a relapse would be as bad as it was before. My husband has grown and also we have a good support system of family, friends, and doctors. I dont want it to happen, but Im not afraid anymore. I think I understand though. Its a feeling you just know in regards to what you want or can deal with.
If you have any doubts about ending it, I'd take him up on his offer of couples counseling. See if you can figure it out together.
This book has been helpful to me: Beyond Addiction, How Science and Kindness Help People Change. (J.Foote) . Its helped me really work on my emotions, and better communication skills with my husband.
((hugs)) sorry your having such a hard time.
If you have any doubts about ending it, I'd take him up on his offer of couples counseling. See if you can figure it out together.
This book has been helpful to me: Beyond Addiction, How Science and Kindness Help People Change. (J.Foote) . Its helped me really work on my emotions, and better communication skills with my husband.
((hugs)) sorry your having such a hard time.
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Originally Posted by BlueChair 
If you have any doubts about ending it, I'd take him up on his offer of couples counseling. See if you can figure it out together.
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Originally Posted by Refiner
Something I've learned from SR is couples/marriage counseling is pretty useless with an active addict since they will skirt and protect at all costs. But if you do go, please make sure it's a counselor who also specializes in addiction issues in relationships.
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Originally Posted by BlueChair
I think it can be very valuable to both people IF you are willing to hear both sides and look at underlying emotions and fears of your partner all while sharing your own. Often drinking or drugs is a symptom or result of other unresolved issues. Ive learned a lot about my husband and myself during our sessions. when he slipped up right around 30 days in our sessions we talked about what he was feeling before it happened, and how it made me feel for example. Good stuff, but totally depends on the individuals Im sure.
I would LOVE to do that. I would love to know the inner-workings of his brain. I find it fascinating. I'm addicted to his reasoning. My family has just told me they will completely detach from me if I continue in this relationship. My heart is caught in the middle. But I know what I have to do...I'm just not quite sure HOW to do it so that I don't fall into a deep dark depression.
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For the record, he has had months and months and months of extensive rehab and treatment.
Did you guys cut your significant others off cold-turkey? Or was it a process? What worked best for you? There may be a forum on this already, my apologies if I missed it!
Did you guys cut your significant others off cold-turkey? Or was it a process? What worked best for you? There may be a forum on this already, my apologies if I missed it!
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Originally Posted by SlippyCoco
I would LOVE to do that. I would love to know the inner-workings of his brain. I find it fascinating. I'm addicted to his reasoning. My family has just told me they will completely detach from me if I continue in this relationship. My heart is caught in the middle. But I know what I have to do...I'm just not quite sure HOW to do it so that I don't fall into a deep dark depression.
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I would never presume to tell you what to do, but I would suggest doing some reading around here in the other "Friends and Families" forums . . . there is a lot of heartache and grief . . . and you do not want that for your future children. People become "trapped" when they have children . . . and it is much harder to leave . . .
You can love him from a distance and wish him well in his life?
Does his little boy have a birth mom or other family? I would get them involved. He does deserve a good life, but you can't sacrifice your life to give it to him (well, you can, but I don't think that will really help anyway).
Good luck and think carefully before allowing that person back into your life.
You can love him from a distance and wish him well in his life?
Does his little boy have a birth mom or other family? I would get them involved. He does deserve a good life, but you can't sacrifice your life to give it to him (well, you can, but I don't think that will really help anyway).
Good luck and think carefully before allowing that person back into your life.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by SlippyCoco
I would love to know the inner-workings of his brain. I find it fascinating.
You don't have to volunteer to be the spouse of an alcoholic. The choice is yours. But never underestimate the power of another person's addiction to wreck your own life. It is nothing to mess around with.
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Update: I spoke with my ex on Friday night and he was at a hotel room WASTED. It just made me sad for him. And for me. And then, I got out of bed to get a drink of water and stepped on A SCORPION!!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh!!! This was a very sobering moment for me. Adding fuel to the fire! I get it, I get it...the universe is trying to tell me to get the F out of Texas. So....
I think I am going to check out Portland for a few days and see if it would be a good fit. I am still talking to my ex everyday, and he still a ton of things to move out of the house, and he will have to watch our dog while I'm away....which is becoming abundantly clear that this is not going to be a quick and easy process like the ol high school days. We are so intertwined! I can see why people feel "stuck" -- whether we get back together or not, I need at least 6 months to take a step back, collect myself and stand on my own without him. Here we go!
I think I am going to check out Portland for a few days and see if it would be a good fit. I am still talking to my ex everyday, and he still a ton of things to move out of the house, and he will have to watch our dog while I'm away....which is becoming abundantly clear that this is not going to be a quick and easy process like the ol high school days. We are so intertwined! I can see why people feel "stuck" -- whether we get back together or not, I need at least 6 months to take a step back, collect myself and stand on my own without him. Here we go!
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