no contact for a year- does it work??
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
no contact for a year- does it work??
Hi, all. I accidentally posted this is the wrong section earlier today (Relationships in Sobriety) and was advised to re-post here for more replies. Sorry it's so long, I guess I'm just rambling emotionally today and desperate for others' words of wisdom/experience....
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Hi everyone.... I'm new here and am happy to have found this place. I need advice and thought maybe I could tell a brief (!) version of my story with my boyfriend, even though it's probably a lot like many others' stories, and then ask my question.
I am 29, have never had any addictions, didn't grow up with any addictions in my (immediate) family, am 'normal,' attractive, educated. I met my bf because he is my mother's best friend's brother-in-law. Everyone was appalled and some of my family even distanced themselves from me when we started dating because he is a formerly homeless drug addict (crack mainly), current alcoholic, illiterate, undependable with work (carpentry), has no health insurance at all and 2 hernias, and is in debt. But we got along really well, had a great time hanging out, he's so sweet and extremely generous, very witty and funny. He got 2 STD tests done for me. I started teaching him how to read, we took some short road trips together, started dating within a month. This was a year ago. I NEVER thought I would date someone with a profile like his, but I fell for him. He lives 3 hours away from me in South Jersey so we saw each other every weekend, but I didn't get to see him on a daily basis. So the phone was of big importance at first just for keeping us in contact, and later as a way for me to 'monitor' his behavior from a distance. (Codependent I know-- more to come on that later.)
His history: dysfunctional faily, he's ben an alcoholic/drug addict since his teens, has trouble articulating his feelings yet he is simultaneously very warm and often emotional. He has been in and out of AA so many times-- 10 or so years ago he was even a chairperson/meeting moderator (I don't know the proper terminology). I feel like he's been around AA so long, he knows how to 'play the game' so to speak, without really doing the work. The longest sober period he's had was 10 yrs ago, though now he says it was just a 'dry' period, and that there's a difference. He's lost a lot of people in his life who have died on him, including his ex-fiancee who died as a result of alcohol abuse, and a nephew who died from drugs; these deaths really bother him.
In the past year, he has NEVER, ever been abusive to me physically or verbally. But we fight constantly. Initially in the first few months I didn't think he really had a problem with alcohol, and I thought drugs were in his distant past. He always said he considered himself a drug addict forst and foremost, and that his drinking sprung from using alcohol as a subsitution once he stopped doing hard drugs. In time I came to see that his missing work was due to his drinking, and we started fighting about him not answering the phone and/or calling me at times we were supposed to talk. I told him this bothered me, he said he'd be more mindful, he would be for a few days, but then what I've come to call his 'disappearing act' would happen again. I'd get pissed and 'react,' we'd fight, I'd sometimes employ the silent treatment even so long as a week or 2, we'd make up and get back together. And the cycle would start all over again.
The disappearing act (by phone) was the biggest problem we had, but ultimately it started ruining plans we'd made. Even weekend plans that were paid for and planned in advance and involved other people. A few weeks ago me, him, and his nephew were supposed to take a road trip to NASCAR (which he loves, me not so much but no biggie, I got to be with him). His nephew is 16 and was so excited. The night before we were supposed to leave, no one could get a hold of him. Not me, not his brother, not his nephew. Turns out his boss underpaid him by a day by accident, so he was going to have to tell me he didn't have enough money to pay for the hotel, and this stressed him out so much he bought a 12-pack (he only drinks beer), got drunk and stopped answering the phone. He ruined everyone's weekend plans. I was already packed and ready to go; his nephew was devastated.
One of our breakups in Februray lasted about a month, brought on by the fact that he left his cell phone at my house when he went back home and I noticed all these calls he was getting/making at times he ALWAYS tells me he's sleeping (and that's why he didn't call me back on those nights when I would leave 5 voice mails trying to get him). After a protracted battle over the truth following some investigations (calling those numbers) on my part, he told me that he's been smoking pot in addition to drinking and those people were dealers. Now, on top of his disappearing, lying to my face was introduced into the scenario. And drug dealers scared me because drugs are no joke to me, scare me more than alcohol, and his 2 best friends are an active crack addict and a heroin addict 'in recovery.' Now lying became my big thing. After we broke up and reunited from this one, I found out that he had been so depressed about our breakup that time that he hung out with this friend one night and he binged on coke. Just once, that one night in February, but he did a fair amount of it and felt bad the next day. I found this out following us getting back together, during the 'honesty phase' of his then-current re-attempt at AA.
That's another thing with him-- after an alcohol or occasional drug relapse, he feels so bad that he "isolates." That's what he says. For me, it's another day of him not answering the phone. He can't "deal with it" (or me) on days like that.
Finally I told him he had a decision to make: his lifestyle or me. It had to be one or the other. He was lying to me, averaging work 3 times a week, and making absolutely no progress with his life. If he wanted me in his life I needed to think we had a CHANCE at some sort of future, and he needed to take action immediately. He's already 46 and all I saw for him was a broke, drunk old man living off social security in the coming years.
So he went back to AA. Again. As I said, he's been around it forever but said he never did it right before, and this time he would. I believed him that he would try, so I stuck around and supported him. I went to a meeting with him, encouraged and supported and listened and asked what I could do. He said to just "be there" for him, and I was. For months.
I became OVER-involved though. Sometimes I felt like he put me in the sponsor position too much and I encouraged him to open up more at meetings and to his sponsor and his family (useless as they may be). After the first relapse he said he realized he needed to talk to his sponsor every day. Within a few days, the daily phonecalls to his sponsor stopped; I would nag. When he would come up to see me on weekends and I would insist repeatedly that he go to a meeting, he would get resentful of me and say I was being a pain in the ass and pressuring him too much-- but he would go. I suggested he make an appt with a psychologist, and he did (he's going on the 8th). But no matter how much he cooperated with my suggestions, he'd always relapse and disappear on me again. Which made me think the cooperation was just to shut me up and put up a good front. So the fighting cycle never ceased.
He says he's isolated and alone and surrounded by people just like him down where he lives, and he needs to see me more. That all the talking on the phone helps him. But there have been times when he would start smoking pot or drinking (and therefore disappear) at times right after or the night before he was supposed to see me. His friend who is a crack addict-- he has let this guy smoke in his house as recently as 2 months ago, while he sits and drinks and smokes pot. He hasn't removed this guy from his life until recently, and I have to trust him that that's the truth since I'm not there-- and even when I believe it's the truth, that his resolve to stay away from these people will last. Constant anxiety and nagging mistrust are always there for me.
So I devised a plan: for the last few months I've insisted on a phonecall schedule: once at 7 am so I know he's up for work, then he always calls me 20 times throughout the day on his own anyway, but then I also demanded a goodnight phonecall when he goes to bed. Very codependent on my part, but it was my way of feeling like I have SOME sort of control over knowing what he's doing, 3 hours away from me. If he calls at night when he goes to bed and then at 7 am and I know he goes to work that day, I can rest pretty easy that he's not drinking. It's when the nighttime phonecalls don't come that ALWAYS tell me there is a problem-- the system has never failed me in that way.
So last Friday afternoon after work on the phone with me he said, "Alright, I'll talk to you later, dont worry I won't disappear, everything's fine." Friday night, he never called. So, in a move VERY unlike me, I didn't call him either. He didn't call the whole night, so I expected if he innocently fell asleep, which has happened on occasion, he would call first thing in the morning. He never called in the morning. I waited until 11:30 am on Saturday to call. He didn't answer, I left a voice mail saying 'thanks for not disappearing like you said you woudln't.' Ten minutes later he called me back, which tells me he waited to hear my voice mail first. And he tried to pretend nothing happened and it was no biggie that I hadn't spoken to him since 4:30 the day before. He was just like, "Hey what's up, what did you do last night...." etc. I told him not to play games with me, we fought, he screamed "I didn't f'n do anything!" and hung up on me. I left furious voice mails. No response for 2 days.
I took that time to do some research, emailed experts for advice, found out the time and place of Al-Anon meetings for my own issues. When he called yesterday, I told him something I was advised to say-- that he should not contact me for a year, and only if in that time he has accomplished sobriety. He protested, asked if I knew how much he loved me and how he never MEANS to do the things he does to me, he asked if I loved him (I told him YES-- that's why I'm doing this, forgiving you = enabling you, etc.). He basically said "fine" and we hung up.
If you're still here with me , my QUESTION is-- does anyone have any experience that will shed some light for me as to whether this will this work for him? If I'm being honest, my objective is not to leave him. A year seems UNBEARABLY long to me, and I don't know if I'll be able to hold out for that long. But what are the odds of this working for him, so we can be together? My gut feeling is that when he finally (after 20 breakups and reconciliations) believes that I'm serious abut the no-contact for a while, he will spiral downward instead of trying to get better sincerely. I don't know if he's capable of recover after a lifetime of substance abuse, and that scares me. So is a YEAR absolutely necessary? Is something like 3 or even 6 months not enough time to gauge progress?
I never thought I would be the kind of woman to be in this position. Never had any respect for women who get involved with men who have addiction issues. Part of my brain tells me he's different-- I really don't feel like he's your traditional con man, manipulating, using sort of addict. My uncle was that way and he sickened me. Part of me believes he's not that bad. But nonetheless, look how he's overtaken my life, he's become an obsession and I really DO Love him. Guess he knocked me clear off my high-horse, huh?
If anyone has read all of this, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time, and would love to get any feedback or advice regarding this no-contact idea, and the length of time necessary for it to potentially work. Thanks again.
---------------------------------------
Hi everyone.... I'm new here and am happy to have found this place. I need advice and thought maybe I could tell a brief (!) version of my story with my boyfriend, even though it's probably a lot like many others' stories, and then ask my question.
I am 29, have never had any addictions, didn't grow up with any addictions in my (immediate) family, am 'normal,' attractive, educated. I met my bf because he is my mother's best friend's brother-in-law. Everyone was appalled and some of my family even distanced themselves from me when we started dating because he is a formerly homeless drug addict (crack mainly), current alcoholic, illiterate, undependable with work (carpentry), has no health insurance at all and 2 hernias, and is in debt. But we got along really well, had a great time hanging out, he's so sweet and extremely generous, very witty and funny. He got 2 STD tests done for me. I started teaching him how to read, we took some short road trips together, started dating within a month. This was a year ago. I NEVER thought I would date someone with a profile like his, but I fell for him. He lives 3 hours away from me in South Jersey so we saw each other every weekend, but I didn't get to see him on a daily basis. So the phone was of big importance at first just for keeping us in contact, and later as a way for me to 'monitor' his behavior from a distance. (Codependent I know-- more to come on that later.)
His history: dysfunctional faily, he's ben an alcoholic/drug addict since his teens, has trouble articulating his feelings yet he is simultaneously very warm and often emotional. He has been in and out of AA so many times-- 10 or so years ago he was even a chairperson/meeting moderator (I don't know the proper terminology). I feel like he's been around AA so long, he knows how to 'play the game' so to speak, without really doing the work. The longest sober period he's had was 10 yrs ago, though now he says it was just a 'dry' period, and that there's a difference. He's lost a lot of people in his life who have died on him, including his ex-fiancee who died as a result of alcohol abuse, and a nephew who died from drugs; these deaths really bother him.
In the past year, he has NEVER, ever been abusive to me physically or verbally. But we fight constantly. Initially in the first few months I didn't think he really had a problem with alcohol, and I thought drugs were in his distant past. He always said he considered himself a drug addict forst and foremost, and that his drinking sprung from using alcohol as a subsitution once he stopped doing hard drugs. In time I came to see that his missing work was due to his drinking, and we started fighting about him not answering the phone and/or calling me at times we were supposed to talk. I told him this bothered me, he said he'd be more mindful, he would be for a few days, but then what I've come to call his 'disappearing act' would happen again. I'd get pissed and 'react,' we'd fight, I'd sometimes employ the silent treatment even so long as a week or 2, we'd make up and get back together. And the cycle would start all over again.
The disappearing act (by phone) was the biggest problem we had, but ultimately it started ruining plans we'd made. Even weekend plans that were paid for and planned in advance and involved other people. A few weeks ago me, him, and his nephew were supposed to take a road trip to NASCAR (which he loves, me not so much but no biggie, I got to be with him). His nephew is 16 and was so excited. The night before we were supposed to leave, no one could get a hold of him. Not me, not his brother, not his nephew. Turns out his boss underpaid him by a day by accident, so he was going to have to tell me he didn't have enough money to pay for the hotel, and this stressed him out so much he bought a 12-pack (he only drinks beer), got drunk and stopped answering the phone. He ruined everyone's weekend plans. I was already packed and ready to go; his nephew was devastated.
One of our breakups in Februray lasted about a month, brought on by the fact that he left his cell phone at my house when he went back home and I noticed all these calls he was getting/making at times he ALWAYS tells me he's sleeping (and that's why he didn't call me back on those nights when I would leave 5 voice mails trying to get him). After a protracted battle over the truth following some investigations (calling those numbers) on my part, he told me that he's been smoking pot in addition to drinking and those people were dealers. Now, on top of his disappearing, lying to my face was introduced into the scenario. And drug dealers scared me because drugs are no joke to me, scare me more than alcohol, and his 2 best friends are an active crack addict and a heroin addict 'in recovery.' Now lying became my big thing. After we broke up and reunited from this one, I found out that he had been so depressed about our breakup that time that he hung out with this friend one night and he binged on coke. Just once, that one night in February, but he did a fair amount of it and felt bad the next day. I found this out following us getting back together, during the 'honesty phase' of his then-current re-attempt at AA.
That's another thing with him-- after an alcohol or occasional drug relapse, he feels so bad that he "isolates." That's what he says. For me, it's another day of him not answering the phone. He can't "deal with it" (or me) on days like that.
Finally I told him he had a decision to make: his lifestyle or me. It had to be one or the other. He was lying to me, averaging work 3 times a week, and making absolutely no progress with his life. If he wanted me in his life I needed to think we had a CHANCE at some sort of future, and he needed to take action immediately. He's already 46 and all I saw for him was a broke, drunk old man living off social security in the coming years.
So he went back to AA. Again. As I said, he's been around it forever but said he never did it right before, and this time he would. I believed him that he would try, so I stuck around and supported him. I went to a meeting with him, encouraged and supported and listened and asked what I could do. He said to just "be there" for him, and I was. For months.
I became OVER-involved though. Sometimes I felt like he put me in the sponsor position too much and I encouraged him to open up more at meetings and to his sponsor and his family (useless as they may be). After the first relapse he said he realized he needed to talk to his sponsor every day. Within a few days, the daily phonecalls to his sponsor stopped; I would nag. When he would come up to see me on weekends and I would insist repeatedly that he go to a meeting, he would get resentful of me and say I was being a pain in the ass and pressuring him too much-- but he would go. I suggested he make an appt with a psychologist, and he did (he's going on the 8th). But no matter how much he cooperated with my suggestions, he'd always relapse and disappear on me again. Which made me think the cooperation was just to shut me up and put up a good front. So the fighting cycle never ceased.
He says he's isolated and alone and surrounded by people just like him down where he lives, and he needs to see me more. That all the talking on the phone helps him. But there have been times when he would start smoking pot or drinking (and therefore disappear) at times right after or the night before he was supposed to see me. His friend who is a crack addict-- he has let this guy smoke in his house as recently as 2 months ago, while he sits and drinks and smokes pot. He hasn't removed this guy from his life until recently, and I have to trust him that that's the truth since I'm not there-- and even when I believe it's the truth, that his resolve to stay away from these people will last. Constant anxiety and nagging mistrust are always there for me.
So I devised a plan: for the last few months I've insisted on a phonecall schedule: once at 7 am so I know he's up for work, then he always calls me 20 times throughout the day on his own anyway, but then I also demanded a goodnight phonecall when he goes to bed. Very codependent on my part, but it was my way of feeling like I have SOME sort of control over knowing what he's doing, 3 hours away from me. If he calls at night when he goes to bed and then at 7 am and I know he goes to work that day, I can rest pretty easy that he's not drinking. It's when the nighttime phonecalls don't come that ALWAYS tell me there is a problem-- the system has never failed me in that way.
So last Friday afternoon after work on the phone with me he said, "Alright, I'll talk to you later, dont worry I won't disappear, everything's fine." Friday night, he never called. So, in a move VERY unlike me, I didn't call him either. He didn't call the whole night, so I expected if he innocently fell asleep, which has happened on occasion, he would call first thing in the morning. He never called in the morning. I waited until 11:30 am on Saturday to call. He didn't answer, I left a voice mail saying 'thanks for not disappearing like you said you woudln't.' Ten minutes later he called me back, which tells me he waited to hear my voice mail first. And he tried to pretend nothing happened and it was no biggie that I hadn't spoken to him since 4:30 the day before. He was just like, "Hey what's up, what did you do last night...." etc. I told him not to play games with me, we fought, he screamed "I didn't f'n do anything!" and hung up on me. I left furious voice mails. No response for 2 days.
I took that time to do some research, emailed experts for advice, found out the time and place of Al-Anon meetings for my own issues. When he called yesterday, I told him something I was advised to say-- that he should not contact me for a year, and only if in that time he has accomplished sobriety. He protested, asked if I knew how much he loved me and how he never MEANS to do the things he does to me, he asked if I loved him (I told him YES-- that's why I'm doing this, forgiving you = enabling you, etc.). He basically said "fine" and we hung up.
If you're still here with me , my QUESTION is-- does anyone have any experience that will shed some light for me as to whether this will this work for him? If I'm being honest, my objective is not to leave him. A year seems UNBEARABLY long to me, and I don't know if I'll be able to hold out for that long. But what are the odds of this working for him, so we can be together? My gut feeling is that when he finally (after 20 breakups and reconciliations) believes that I'm serious abut the no-contact for a while, he will spiral downward instead of trying to get better sincerely. I don't know if he's capable of recover after a lifetime of substance abuse, and that scares me. So is a YEAR absolutely necessary? Is something like 3 or even 6 months not enough time to gauge progress?
I never thought I would be the kind of woman to be in this position. Never had any respect for women who get involved with men who have addiction issues. Part of my brain tells me he's different-- I really don't feel like he's your traditional con man, manipulating, using sort of addict. My uncle was that way and he sickened me. Part of me believes he's not that bad. But nonetheless, look how he's overtaken my life, he's become an obsession and I really DO Love him. Guess he knocked me clear off my high-horse, huh?
If anyone has read all of this, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time, and would love to get any feedback or advice regarding this no-contact idea, and the length of time necessary for it to potentially work. Thanks again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: crown point
Posts: 66
" I really don't feel like he's your traditional con man, manipulating, using sort of addict."
What sets him apart from the others? It seems all he's done is lie to you. I never thought a time line could be used on addiction. I guess you have to make your choice and stick to it. If he sobers up that's great. But I think it's impossible to tell how long that will take. Good luck to you.
What sets him apart from the others? It seems all he's done is lie to you. I never thought a time line could be used on addiction. I guess you have to make your choice and stick to it. If he sobers up that's great. But I think it's impossible to tell how long that will take. Good luck to you.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
Deax,
Have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting? My only suggestions would be to try a few Al-Anon meetings, read the stickys at the top of these Friends & Familys of Alcoholics Threads, maybe read some of the Al-Anon literature, and remember the three C's of the disease. - You did not Cause it, You can not Cure it, nor can you Control it.
Keep coming back,
Rita
Have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting? My only suggestions would be to try a few Al-Anon meetings, read the stickys at the top of these Friends & Familys of Alcoholics Threads, maybe read some of the Al-Anon literature, and remember the three C's of the disease. - You did not Cause it, You can not Cure it, nor can you Control it.
Keep coming back,
Rita
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
First off, Welcome to SR Deax.
That's a lot of ups and downs for one year, you must be very tired. So my question is, if nothing changed, would you want to live that way for the rest of your life?
I ask that only because with addictions... there are NO guarantees. There are no guarantees to sobriety. There are no guarantees of reliability. The only thing you can count on from an addict... is that you can't count on them. Even in recovery, there is ALWAYS the threat of relapse. It doesn't go away. There is no cure.
So... again... is this what you want to life with for the rest of your life? If so, Al-anon is a great place to start helping you figure out how to cope with the fallout of living with an addict. I'm glad to hear that you have attended a meeting or two... hope you keep going back, because it's really for YOU, not him.
As for the no contact, and the length of time... it sounds to me like you going no contact is a means to force him to get control of his drinking. It won't work. We (as the spouses, friends, family of addicts) are just not that powerful. We can't control the disease for someone else. We can't cure it for them. And more importantly, our behavior, our choices... nothing we do or did caused it. The disease isn't about us... it's about them.
It sounds to me like it's time for you to learn how to detach yourself from him. Al-anon will certainly help get you there.
Just some of my thoughts. I wish you the best... please keep coming back.
Shannon
That's a lot of ups and downs for one year, you must be very tired. So my question is, if nothing changed, would you want to live that way for the rest of your life?
I ask that only because with addictions... there are NO guarantees. There are no guarantees to sobriety. There are no guarantees of reliability. The only thing you can count on from an addict... is that you can't count on them. Even in recovery, there is ALWAYS the threat of relapse. It doesn't go away. There is no cure.
So... again... is this what you want to life with for the rest of your life? If so, Al-anon is a great place to start helping you figure out how to cope with the fallout of living with an addict. I'm glad to hear that you have attended a meeting or two... hope you keep going back, because it's really for YOU, not him.
As for the no contact, and the length of time... it sounds to me like you going no contact is a means to force him to get control of his drinking. It won't work. We (as the spouses, friends, family of addicts) are just not that powerful. We can't control the disease for someone else. We can't cure it for them. And more importantly, our behavior, our choices... nothing we do or did caused it. The disease isn't about us... it's about them.
But nonetheless, look how he's overtaken my life, he's become an obsession and I really DO Love him.
Just some of my thoughts. I wish you the best... please keep coming back.
Shannon
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 528
man, this all just sounds so crazy. Not to make you feel bad, I've done my share of hanging on to the unacceptable but my goodness.....are you able to take a step back and read what you just wrote??? In just one year, with some guy who has all these problems/baggage and appears to STILL demonstrate he is not "recovering" or headed in the direction of "responsible" adult, why in the heck waste your time/life on someone? Love doesn't have anything to do withh it. Sometimes love means loving yourself first and enough to walk away. Just my opinion. This just seems like one HUGE heartache for someone who can't even keep his word on too much. You have just as big a problem as he does because you can't see when it's time to cut your losses to save yourself
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by jackson123
" I really don't feel like he's your traditional con man, manipulating, using sort of addict."
What sets him apart from the others? It seems all he's done is lie to you.
What sets him apart from the others? It seems all he's done is lie to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Japic05
Deax,
Have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting? My only suggestions would be to try a few Al-Anon meetings, read the stickys at the top of these Friends & Familys of Alcoholics Threads, maybe read some of the Al-Anon literature, and remember the three C's of the disease. - You did not Cause it, You can not Cure it, nor can you Control it.
Keep coming back,
Rita
Have you ever been to an Al-Anon meeting? My only suggestions would be to try a few Al-Anon meetings, read the stickys at the top of these Friends & Familys of Alcoholics Threads, maybe read some of the Al-Anon literature, and remember the three C's of the disease. - You did not Cause it, You can not Cure it, nor can you Control it.
Keep coming back,
Rita
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by GettingBy
As for the no contact, and the length of time... it sounds to me like you going no contact is a means to force him to get control of his drinking. It won't work. We (as the spouses, friends, family of addicts) are just not that powerful. We can't control the disease for someone else. We can't cure it for them. And more importantly, our behavior, our choices... nothing we do or did caused it. The disease isn't about us... it's about them.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by sunshine003
man, this all just sounds so crazy. Not to make you feel bad, I've done my share of hanging on to the unacceptable but my goodness.....are you able to take a step back and read what you just wrote???
Originally Posted by sunshine003
You have just as big a problem as he does because you can't see when it's time to cut your losses to save yourself
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Welcome to SR Deax We are glad that you found us....
Always remember to take what you want and leave the rest.... What Im telling you is only my opinion and Im not there to see a whole picture but here it goes.
OK.... SO, If I got out to have a good time and murder someone by shooting them .... does it make it any different that I did not intend to, that I wont do it again and heck I did not use my hands and strangle them..... Sound nuts????
Actions speak louder then words, he will say anything ... true or not.....anything to keep you around to enable him and continue to use whatever he wants. That is what they do. You asked if your BSing yourself *shrugs* I would probably tell you YEP you sure are. Its called denial and we all did/do it.
From my point of view you have not hit your bottom yet.... You have given him a boundry that you have no intention of carrying out ... your not doing this year no contact for the right reasons and soon if he does not respond you will go back. What do you think you are telling him... you are teaching him that its ok to treat you unacceptably and that you will keep coming back for more. You honestly do not have that much power and until you figure out that you CANT control this you will become just as crazy as he is. Honi, its not a question of LOVE .... this has nothing to do with love.... this is about his choice to use ... his disease and he will not stop till he wants to stop. To be honest you are just playing head games with him, pushing buttons till he does what you want him too. Would you like someone to play head games with you till you did what they wanted you too?
Im not trying to be mean, we have ALL been where you are not, Im just trying to help you understand that you need to take the focus off him, stop trying to control his behavior and really think about what you want in life.... If you cant accept him just the way he is today then maybe you might want to consider taking that year and figure out why you dont think your worth more then this.
Again Take what you want and leave the rest... I could be off base completely.
Always remember to take what you want and leave the rest.... What Im telling you is only my opinion and Im not there to see a whole picture but here it goes.
OK.... SO, If I got out to have a good time and murder someone by shooting them .... does it make it any different that I did not intend to, that I wont do it again and heck I did not use my hands and strangle them..... Sound nuts????
Actions speak louder then words, he will say anything ... true or not.....anything to keep you around to enable him and continue to use whatever he wants. That is what they do. You asked if your BSing yourself *shrugs* I would probably tell you YEP you sure are. Its called denial and we all did/do it.
From my point of view you have not hit your bottom yet.... You have given him a boundry that you have no intention of carrying out ... your not doing this year no contact for the right reasons and soon if he does not respond you will go back. What do you think you are telling him... you are teaching him that its ok to treat you unacceptably and that you will keep coming back for more. You honestly do not have that much power and until you figure out that you CANT control this you will become just as crazy as he is. Honi, its not a question of LOVE .... this has nothing to do with love.... this is about his choice to use ... his disease and he will not stop till he wants to stop. To be honest you are just playing head games with him, pushing buttons till he does what you want him too. Would you like someone to play head games with you till you did what they wanted you too?
Im not trying to be mean, we have ALL been where you are not, Im just trying to help you understand that you need to take the focus off him, stop trying to control his behavior and really think about what you want in life.... If you cant accept him just the way he is today then maybe you might want to consider taking that year and figure out why you dont think your worth more then this.
Again Take what you want and leave the rest... I could be off base completely.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Well, if this isn't a case of codependence and enmeshment I don't know what is. I read your entire post. Most, if not all of it, focused on what you could do FOR HIM, what HE DID, how you felt about what HE DID, your reactions to HIS BEHAVIORS. Perhaps you should just step back for a minute and detach from the entire situation. If you could read your post as if it had been written by someone else, how do you think you would respond?
I've been married to two alcoholics (talk about not learning from my own mistakes ...) and what you are doing is wasting your time. Whether you stay, go, threaten, fight some more, get into another power struggle (a lot of what you've posted is about power and control), or never have contact with this guy again, he's gonna continue to use if he wants to. When you were created, you were not given the power to control any other person, place, or thing other than yourself.
Please get a copy of Melody Beattie's book, "Codependent No More." You need to examine your own behavior. I recognize his behavior for what it is: an addict is an addict is an addict. He can clean up his act when, and if, he wants to. You, and you alone, are putting yourself through an emotional meatgrinder with this man. I think leaving him completely alone for a year is a positive thing if you decide while being without him you find a program such as Al-Anon, Nar-Anon, and/or Codependents Anonymous to work. You may find out that after a year you are at a place where you do not wish to have any further contact with him. In fact, you may find yourself in a serene, healthy place that could possibly make you feel that whether he's gotten clean and sober or not, you are ready to move on.
I've been married to two alcoholics (talk about not learning from my own mistakes ...) and what you are doing is wasting your time. Whether you stay, go, threaten, fight some more, get into another power struggle (a lot of what you've posted is about power and control), or never have contact with this guy again, he's gonna continue to use if he wants to. When you were created, you were not given the power to control any other person, place, or thing other than yourself.
Please get a copy of Melody Beattie's book, "Codependent No More." You need to examine your own behavior. I recognize his behavior for what it is: an addict is an addict is an addict. He can clean up his act when, and if, he wants to. You, and you alone, are putting yourself through an emotional meatgrinder with this man. I think leaving him completely alone for a year is a positive thing if you decide while being without him you find a program such as Al-Anon, Nar-Anon, and/or Codependents Anonymous to work. You may find out that after a year you are at a place where you do not wish to have any further contact with him. In fact, you may find yourself in a serene, healthy place that could possibly make you feel that whether he's gotten clean and sober or not, you are ready to move on.
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
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First things first
My God sweetheart, he's conned and manipulated you into believing this! All addicts/alcoholics are con's and master manipulators.
Second: .... and you want to be with this man because why?
Good God woman, leave this piece of dirt and never look back. Why you've wasted as much time as you have is beyond my comprehension .... you aren't married to him, you're 29 years old, he's 46 years old still hanging around with junkies and addicts and most of all, he is unreliable.
Control ....... dear heart ..... you may think you have devised a way to control him and his actions, but believe me you haven't not one iota! He however is in major control of you and your actions, like a puppet on a string or better still a marionette whose every move and action is being done by an alcoholic/addict! Yikes ......
I really don't feel like he's your traditional con man, manipulating, using sort of addict.
Second: .... and you want to be with this man because why?
Good God woman, leave this piece of dirt and never look back. Why you've wasted as much time as you have is beyond my comprehension .... you aren't married to him, you're 29 years old, he's 46 years old still hanging around with junkies and addicts and most of all, he is unreliable.
Control ....... dear heart ..... you may think you have devised a way to control him and his actions, but believe me you haven't not one iota! He however is in major control of you and your actions, like a puppet on a string or better still a marionette whose every move and action is being done by an alcoholic/addict! Yikes ......
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Cynay
To be honest you are just playing head games with him, pushing buttons till he does what you want him too. Would you like someone to play head games with you till you did what they wanted you too?
.
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I feel so depressed and miserable, and I can't stop crying at the thought of not talking to him for a year. I even hate the thought of getting over him in time! Every time I break up with him I think this could have been the time he stopped his crap for the sake of us. But I know you all are right and that I can't go back on my word now, but I'm also fully aware that at this point my intentions still are that maybe this no-contact thing will work. I can't help it, that's really how I feel. I'm even thinking about reducing the year to 6 months when he calls me again-- not that I'll do that, I'm just trying to tell the truth about what's going through my head right now.
As for having MY buttons pushed to do others' wishes, I'm not a doormat in life (outside of him, apparently), believe it or not, but I know I've allowed my mom and grandmother to get me to do what they wanted my whole life, emotionally, and I'm still working through the repercussions of that. I feel it robbed me of a sense of independence or decision-making skills or something. I have massive relationship/intimacy issues as well. God knows I'm far from perfect and I hope I didn't make it sound that way. I've been in therapy and will be starting again next week. I even brought him to my old therapist with me once.
As for why on earth I want to be with him... I know he loves me in his own way, he has been very patient and good to me at times, we get along really well and I love being with him. And I know he's so f'd up beause he's one of those people who never had a fighting chance in life in a lot of ways. I feel bad for him, and he really is a nice guy-- even my family and friends know there's a decent guy underneath his addiction. I thought this would be one place where women might understand my wanting to be with someone when no one else gets it-- and my family and my friends definitely do not get it.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by deax
As for why on earth I want to be with him... I know he loves me in his own way, he has been very patient and good to me at times, we get along really well and I love being with him. And I know he's so f'd up beause he's one of those people who never had a fighting chance in life in a lot of ways. I feel bad for him, and he really is a nice guy-- even my family and friends know there's a decent guy underneath his addiction. I thought this would be one place where women might understand my wanting to be with someone when no one else gets it-- and my family and my friends definitely do not get it.
but you are wrong in one thing..Everyone has a fighting chance in life..You are given lots of choices what to do with your life..There are lots of people (like me) that came from f*d up backgrounds that do something and make something with their lives..No excuses.
another thing..Addiction is a progressive disease..So gradually that nice guy will be gone and replaced with a not so nice guy..
keep coming back..There are lots of different perspectives on this board..
I think you are doing the right thing about going to Alanon and going to a therpist..
as you get healthier - your choices will be healthier as well.
we all get there in our own time.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Minx1969
and make something with their lives..No excuses.
another thing..Addiction is a progressive disease..So gradually that nice guy will be gone and replaced with a not so nice guy..
another thing..Addiction is a progressive disease..So gradually that nice guy will be gone and replaced with a not so nice guy..
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 928
sometimes their bottom comes from death..that was the case for my brother. he was 34...
It is a progressive disease..don't let it fool you because he's not homeless that it's not getting worse..I've seen plenty of guys in and out of AA that were homeless and get sober and go back again and lose everything multiple times..
you dont' know what his bottom is..he's still drinking and doing drugs (is what you posted)
It is hard when they A's in our life seem to make progress...that's what kept me hooked in to my exabf..he would seemingly try and meet my needs for a while..and then revert...
it's a manipulation to keep you hooked in..
regardless - you need to keep the focus on you and your recovery..not what he is or isn't doing.
It is a progressive disease..don't let it fool you because he's not homeless that it's not getting worse..I've seen plenty of guys in and out of AA that were homeless and get sober and go back again and lose everything multiple times..
you dont' know what his bottom is..he's still drinking and doing drugs (is what you posted)
It is hard when they A's in our life seem to make progress...that's what kept me hooked in to my exabf..he would seemingly try and meet my needs for a while..and then revert...
it's a manipulation to keep you hooked in..
regardless - you need to keep the focus on you and your recovery..not what he is or isn't doing.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Welcome deax
You've already gotten some great sharing here, so I'll just share something from my life. I went no contact with my AH of 18 years last November. Eight month later my life is so improved from the craziness we were in that I can't imagine going back into that relationship. At the time I went no contact I, too, in the back of my mind, thought it would be for a year, he would get sober, etc.
I gained incredible tools in Al-Anon, attend therapy, and am slowly gaining back the sanity and serenity I had lost being caught up in the craziness of life with an addict. I am so happy I stood strong with my decision of no contact because it gave me back to myself. If you do this, please do it for yourself.
Good luck to you and keep posting.
You've already gotten some great sharing here, so I'll just share something from my life. I went no contact with my AH of 18 years last November. Eight month later my life is so improved from the craziness we were in that I can't imagine going back into that relationship. At the time I went no contact I, too, in the back of my mind, thought it would be for a year, he would get sober, etc.
I gained incredible tools in Al-Anon, attend therapy, and am slowly gaining back the sanity and serenity I had lost being caught up in the craziness of life with an addict. I am so happy I stood strong with my decision of no contact because it gave me back to myself. If you do this, please do it for yourself.
Good luck to you and keep posting.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by deax
I thought this would be one place where women might understand my wanting to be with someone when no one else gets it-- and my family and my friends definitely do not get it.
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Thread Starter
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Location: Bronx, NY
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Originally Posted by denny57
I'm curious - why did you think this? I want to second the suggestion made above to read "Co-dependent No More."
I will read the book, I've heard of it, though books rarely help me because I have a bad habit of always thinking my situation is "special."
How is your husband doing today, just out of curiosity? Is he on the road to recovery following the no-contact, or do you not know/care at this point? (If I may ask-- if not, sorry)
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
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Hello deax,
I am so sorry that you are in so much pain. You clearly have a deep and compassionate heart. I wish there were some magical way to "fix" your boyfriend and make your life wonderful.
I was homeless and hopeless at the age of 12. Pulled myself out of that insanity by age 17 and managed to "keep it together" by sheer willpower for a few years. The disease of alcoholism took over again and I finally wound up a member of AA. Like any other disease that is untreated, this one grows and weakens and grows again.
As others have mentioned, there is a great deal of good you can do for your boyfriend, but what you _can_ do is very difficult and requires much determination on your part. The obvious things are actually harmful. Just like a bad infection, the "reflex" is too just stay in bed until it goes away, but the best action is to get to a doctor and get antibiotics.
The correct action that will be most helpful to an alcoholic is found in the books and meetings of Al-Anon. Just like the spouse of cancer patient needs to become educated in the treatment of that disease, those of us who hope to help an addicted person need to also become educated.
You are right in feeling confused. You don't have enough information to be able to make sense of what this disease is like. Once you have taken the time to speak with people in real life meetings, and to read the books and pamphlets on the subject it will all begin to make sense. You can be _very_ supportive of him, but you have to do it in the right way.
I understand why you want to be with him. For the same reason I want to be with my addict ex-wife. Well, I want to be with the happy, loving and kind woman she once was. Not with the person she became as a result of the addiction.
You are very welcome here deax, because you hurt for the one you love the same way all the rest of us do.
Mike
I am so sorry that you are in so much pain. You clearly have a deep and compassionate heart. I wish there were some magical way to "fix" your boyfriend and make your life wonderful.
I was homeless and hopeless at the age of 12. Pulled myself out of that insanity by age 17 and managed to "keep it together" by sheer willpower for a few years. The disease of alcoholism took over again and I finally wound up a member of AA. Like any other disease that is untreated, this one grows and weakens and grows again.
As others have mentioned, there is a great deal of good you can do for your boyfriend, but what you _can_ do is very difficult and requires much determination on your part. The obvious things are actually harmful. Just like a bad infection, the "reflex" is too just stay in bed until it goes away, but the best action is to get to a doctor and get antibiotics.
The correct action that will be most helpful to an alcoholic is found in the books and meetings of Al-Anon. Just like the spouse of cancer patient needs to become educated in the treatment of that disease, those of us who hope to help an addicted person need to also become educated.
You are right in feeling confused. You don't have enough information to be able to make sense of what this disease is like. Once you have taken the time to speak with people in real life meetings, and to read the books and pamphlets on the subject it will all begin to make sense. You can be _very_ supportive of him, but you have to do it in the right way.
I understand why you want to be with him. For the same reason I want to be with my addict ex-wife. Well, I want to be with the happy, loving and kind woman she once was. Not with the person she became as a result of the addiction.
You are very welcome here deax, because you hurt for the one you love the same way all the rest of us do.
Mike
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