Sasha99

Women Who Love Too Much is a fabulous book! The subtitle says it all: "when you keep wishing and hoping he'll change." I read it when it first came out ~20 years ago. I was going with the guy I mentioned that I was obsessing about (the one whose house I would drive by in the middle of the night). He wasn't an alcoholic, but that didn't stop me from obsessing.

I remember we were at his house, and I was reading the book and a big light bulb came on over my head. I realized that our conversations were almost always about things that I thought he should be doing "for his own good." It was embarrassing to realize this. So I said to myself, "for at least the rest of this evening, I won't say one thing to him that is something he should do about ANYTHING." I kept reading and every so often I'd open my mouth to say something to him and I'd realize that it was something I thought he needed to do! Holy cow! I'd close my mouth and go back to reading. This happened over and over again. I don't think I said one more word that night! (It must have been a great relief to him.)

Another wonderful book on compulsions is The Gift of Our Compulsions by Mary O'Malley. She takes a very constructive practical approach toward compulsions. She also has a website: http://www.maryomalley.com/
You can sign up for an e-newsletter and stuff.

If you're obsessing on him, chances are you're not new to obsessing. So it isn't just about his drinking... it's a global issue for you. It certainly is for me.

You're doing great. And don't ask yourself if you should pick up the phone if it's him-- just don't do it. Remind yourself of how you'll feel right after you hang up the phone-- you'll be right back to feeling yukky again.

deax

I'm glad I bought it then... I understand that, I did the same thing with Rich and he had SO many things in his life that needed improving even beyond the addictions that I always thought I was doing the right thing, being helpful, etc. I thought he really just didn't know life could be different, or easier, or happier, if he made some changes. He'd never been exposed to it. I STILL don't think he really knows that. But I know now that I could serve it to him on a g-damn silver platter and at the end of the day, he'll still be who he is.

I remember my old therapist, who was completely ineffective for me and didn't take my problems seriously AT ALL, she said to me once, "But he never asked you to come in and fix his life." She told me I had him between a rock and a hard place. If he tells me the whole truth, I'll leave him. So he has to lie, and then when he gets caught doing that I tell him I'm gonna leave him. It was a no-win situation for BOTH of us. He would tell me all the time that I want EVERYTHING to change all at once, and he can't do it. He needs to take baby steps, and in fairness he did-- slowly made progress in various areas of his life. Made sense to me. But still there was too much disappointment and resentment and relapsing and lying... it was literally driving me nuts. In that way it was toxic, and something had to change.

It's absolutely NOT new to me, I've always obsessed and drove myself crazy... I'm glad you understand what that's like! Definitey not unique to him. But it's almost easy to justify this time because my heart is broken, I'm so disappointed at the way this relationship went because I had so much, and so many of my OWN issues, invested in it, and because there's so much to obsess over. Like for example, the thread I started in Sub Abuse, the last 2 days because of those responses I became convinced he was doing hard drugs throughout our entire relationship, was lying about it, I somehow didn't notice it, and therefore he MUST have cheated on me. I acknowledge the wisdom and experience of everyone here, but I still am not convinced he was doing drugs whenever I was in his company, even if those in SA feel it's fairly impossible given his lifestyle... I still think he could have limited it to weekends or times away from me. I can't remember a single instance he appeared ANY different in appearance, mood, demeanor, etc. And even if he did drugs a lot when I wasn't physically there, that's no guarantee that he cheated on me. Which I don't think he'd do anyway, he was so against that, and it's not like he's such a ladies' man, but with some of the losers he hung out with you never know what could happen... But you see how the cycle of obsession begins over him? I'm sure you understand since you know what it's like to obsess. Could this have been the case-- leads to memories-- leads to possibilities-- leads to anxiety-- etc. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE not to do, especially if you're already an obsessive person. Thanks for the book/website tip... there's so much info out there!

Thank you... I'm trying my best, anyway. About feeling yucky-- I feel yucky now, too, for the most part, lol.... Talking to him would be a comfort, I'm just scared of derailing whatever progress I've made. I keep reminding myself that I wil talkto him again eventually, he's not gone FOREVER... it'll just be at a time when either he's truly sober, or if not, when I'm in a place to have him in my life, if even just as a friend, and manage not to make him #1 and lose myself completely in his chaos.

I will say one thing I'm happy about and GRATEFUL for, though (!). Yes, I still want to talk to him, tell him everything I'm doing, everything I'm learning, all the mistakes I made, tell him I may be on to some stuff he may have been doing behind my back, ask for reassurance he didn't cheat on me, etc. HOWEVER, when I was reading Codependent No More last night- which I absolutely LOVE so far- she said the best way to detach is 'in love.' It's ok to do it in anger instead of not at all, but she said in love was the best way. And the last time I talked to Rich, that's exactly how I said it. I told him I needed time away from him, explained why, acknowledged that yes I knew he loved me and never wanted to hurt me, then I started crying because I think it hit me all of a sudden what I was saying, but I told him that I'll miss him, I love him very much, and goodbye. And I hung up. It wasn't pissed off, no fighting, it was sad but nice. In that moment, I wasn't angry (that came later-- LOL). But I am really grateful that was my last behavior, esp since I had sometimes been such a monster, and that that's the last conversation he'll remember of me. And I don't want to f--k that up by talking again, so it's a good motivator to help me stay away for a little while.

PS-- I know I talk soooo much on here and some of you probably want this thread to die already, LOL... I'm sorry my posts are always a novel long.... For some reason I feel the need to share all of my thinking so that people can call me out on bad thinking, or let me know what IS normal... etc. It's great to have this place even just to vent, even if I don't always feel I've done a good enough job explaining him or the relationship or whatever... it's helping ME nonetheless. Friends and family don't always help whenit comes to him... Anyway, seriously-- thanks for putting up with me!

GingerM

Yes, they robbed you of the ability to set boundaries with people very close to you. It is very common in adult children of dysfunctional families. I'm 40. I just finally learned how to set boundaries for myself with the various people in my life who manipulated me through guilt, threats or other means.

I do understand why you would love someone so much as to stay with them even when they're being absolute cads (trying to tone down the name calling). I also went through a similar relationship with a much older man pretty much around your age. I stayed with him as long as I could...until he'd bled me dry, gotten me so deeply in debt that I was a hair away from bankruptcy, had destroyed anything vaguely resembling self esteem that I'd ever had. Funny thing is that I don't think it was so much how he treated me, but his response to my Grandmother (who thought he was the bee's knees) that really opened my eyes. I couldn't see what he was doing to me, but I could see what he was doing to others.

I asked myself then "I've already lost 3 years of my life to this man, how many more years do I want to live like this? Do I want to spend the rest of my life living like this?" The answer was a very strong "No".

Others here have very good advice. I can tell you from the perspective of having been 26, living with a 41 year old man....if by 41 they haven't grown up and learned to take responsibility, they most likely won't.

I was engaged to that man when I was 26. I broke off the engagement. He now lives in a 17 foot motor home in his ex-wife's backyard with no electricity or running water. I'm glad I had the strength to turn him out. That was certainly NOT what I wanted for my future, but I'm sure, had I stayed with him, that's exactly where I'd be.

deax

Wow.... thanks for sharing that with me, Ginger. Really, I dunno why it afected me so much, maybe the age difference similarity and I often thought the same thing to myself: I've spent a year dealing with this, how much time will I waste before things get better, if that EVER happens?
"I can tell you from the perspective of having been 26, living with a 41 year old man....if by 41 they haven't grown up and learned to take responsibility, they most likely won't."
^That's discouraging in terms of my hopes for his recovery, but I think what hit me so hard is that I know it's probably the sad truth.