REZ

We have had some people in NA meetings who talk about their recent forays into using drugs. They will talk about their last slip, going out and getting the drugs, using drugs, etc. in vivid detail, making many people squirm in their seats. We have pretty much asked people politely to share about recovery, not about using drugs. But this can be awkward and there are always people who say that if a someone needs to share, he/she should be able to share whatever he/she wants to say in meetings. I don't happen to agree with this sentiment at all, but some people do. I started my recovery in the old days, when they told you not to talk about drugs in meetings, and to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth until you can share some experience, strength, and hope. Any thoughts on this topic?

LILYBIRD

((((rez))))
That Sure Is A Fine Line, Knowing How To Approach That. Sometimes The Talk Of Using Is Glorifying It, I Think. Yet I Know For Me At First Everything I Talked About Involved Drinking Or Drugs Because Every Memory I Had I Was Intoxicated, So Didnt Have Anything New To Relate. Of Course This Changed With Time. So Seems Like It Is A Factor More With Newly Sober People. Makes Me Squirm, For Sure When I Hear Someone Talking About Drugs. I Think There Should Be A "mediator" Of Some Sort To Intervene If The Talk Goes Too Far In One Direction. Everyone Has A Right To Share, But We Like To Say In Our Group "focus On The Solution, Not The Problem.". And Drugs Were Part Of The Problem.
A Little Long Winded, But I Know What I'm Trying To Say
Lily

Blake

My personal belief on this topic is that if some has to share anything to prevent themselves from going out and getting loaded that night, then it is fine by me, however there is a difference between someone romaticising drug use and someone shareing honestly about the horrors of a relapse.....some one discribing in detail how horrible their last relapse was helps me to remember where I don't want to be....in a perfect world this coul be done without going into graffic detail, but sometimes people can just relate to what they know and in time they will get better, if they want to.

Aa_vark

I have the same thing on my mind lately, REZ.

My group has a newcomer - 5 days clean today...

This guy definately needs the cotton out of his ears, and in his mouth...

He's been around NA for 3 years, just came back in after a 4 mounth bender. He has said he is going to do everything that he didnt do the first time around, though. Willing to work steps, now. just got a sponser, spending alllllll day at the fellowship drinking coffee and hitting a few meetings.

Man he laid one one us yesterday, about getting his medical marijuana card... I cant say he doesnt have a legitamate reason, he's on dissability due to seizure disorder. However, i live in the only state where this is even an option. And i would think that there are better 'medical' options...

I'm just feeling dragged down , when i see him at this point.

Moontime

It's funny that NA has no opinion on drugs yet it's the way it got most if not all of us up in this piece. I usually get to practice my patience and tolerance when I hear the drug-a-log. I've been known to identify with a person after the meeting about how we as a group have no opinion on drugs. It's an outside issue.

Blake

I don't think drugs area quite an outside issue. In what is na it states that "na is a fellowship or society of men and women for whom drugs had become a major problem" so drugs are intergral to the identification needed....it also goes on to say that "we don't care what or how much you used, etc..." so for me, when I have to share about when I used to get loaded, I allways use generic terms like "dope" or "dope sick" "got loaded" or "ways and means" instead of specifics. For exaple, most of the people in my area have no clue what specific drugs I did (unless they are good friends or have done H&I with me or were around in my early days in the program) but they all know that I earned my seat and I am there b/c I don't want to die from doing anymore dope.

I think it is very important for the newcommer to feel that identification though so cutting all drug talk out and just focusing on spiritual things, while that is what recovery is about, leaves the newcommer with the feeling that NA is just another place they don't belong. When the majority of us got to NA we identified with the drugalogs and were under the assumtion that dope was the problem, after a while we have one of those spiritual awakinings and realize it just a symptom of the disease and we grow in our recovery, and that's what I try to share after hearing a drugalog.

THis is just my $.02 though and it's apt to change...

(there is this one dude in our area that has a year and a half that goes on a "i'm the biggest dope fiend in the room" rant every once and a while so I can deffinately empathize with yall's frustration, but what is cool is that the longer he stays around the less he goes off about it and the more he picks up on the whole "symptom of the disease" thing...it's been really cool to watch)

Gooch

Simply stated ... sharing experience, strength and hope is directly relative to what you have the experience strength and hope ( or inexperience, lack of strength, and hoplessness ) with.


lets just say for example I used for 15 years and felt a need to share after I had 5 days clean...

15 * 365 = 5475 now lets divide 5 by 5475 ... that comes to 9.1324200913242009132420091324201e-4 or quite a bit less than 1%

by my logic that means that I would have damn little experience to share about recovery, but my mere presence at a meeting speaks volumes about my search for a way out of a hopless condition.

I'm just real grateful there were some guys with a minute clean that had the tolerance to reiterate over and over very patiently that "they didn;t care what or how much I used who I got it from or any of that other stuff", but that if I needed to whine and gripe and there wasn;t a meeting going on, and I called before I picked up here was their phone number.

That newcomer with 5 days clean is counting on us guys with a higher percentage of experince and strength to demonstrate the spitual principles and glow with the hope of freedom from active addiction.

Anybody have any other math problems I can help with? If I don't know the answer I got a couple guys with advanced skills I can call on for help that are always willing to offer a hand up.

Time2Surrender

Wise words IMO. Gooch, you defineatly have the skills.

Aa_vark

im powerless over math, so thanks , gooch! Good stuff....

And, yeah, i definately could identify w/ the drug-a-logs. I'm truely grateful that you guys are here, and utterly amazed at the miracle of recovery. DEFinately been a change in perception, between identifying with the 'problem' and the solution...

REZ

Thanks for sharing. I agree sometimes its a judgment call. I think it is fine for a newcomer to share, "I went back out and used yesterday, and it wasn't any different, same old sick stuff, I am so glad to be back in a meeting." But I don't think it is fine to share, "Yesterday I was at (location of bar or street corner) and my dealer was there and I bought (drug name X) and then we did this and this, etc." I don't think it helps anyone (and can hurt many people) to share the specific details of how you had your slip or used drugs. For one thing, it can people specific ideas about where to get drugs, what to do, etc. It is just to vivid for my taste. In our group, it is actually the other newcomers who are trying to stay clean that feel most threatened by mention of specific places, dealers, drugs, etc.

Gooch

So who shops for the milk next to the beer cooler? what happens when you see your using buddy in drug court? When ity says in the Basic text we share our recovery who do you think they are eferring to? the guy who hasn't feltthe switch flip yet? the guy coming off a run thats still sitting in shitstained pants and tweaking?

The ones that are stil on spin dry?

They are talking about any of us who has felt the clarity of freedom from active addiction. Any of us who has gotten beyond judging the other guy because he holds the mirror up to the part of ourselfs that we're still too scared to look at.

If you and I can't reinforce the factt hat we can ge through the triggers or sit through a meeting and still hold onto our recovery even though we just heard a war story, we may as well let the treatment centers handle all the newcomers, or maybe we could ship them off to a drug free environment ......

I hear there aren't that many drugs in the marble orchard.

Granted we may have to keep on reiterating with great emphasis the line in the reading that says we don;t care who you yada yada with or where you yada yada's

Hell thats how the patient oldtimers beat it into my head.. they let the literature speak for itself, through reiteratiuon and example.

lightseeker

Hi! ahhhhhhh - the euphoric recall adventure.....also fondly referred to as the "crackalogue". Specific stories of using are best shared with a sponsor if they need to be shared, I believe. As far as the down and dirty details go, a NA meeting is probably not the place for that. That is a room of recovery - it's enough to say I went back out - and also, to talk about the emotions/behaviors/actions that led to a relapse. It's not necessary in my humble opinion to go into the actual procurement and usage of a drug. I believe that it is up to people with more recovery to emphasize at the beginning of the meeting that there are certain boundaries to be respected. Do the people that want to share the specific details have a sponsor? If so, as a sponsor that is the sort of thing that I would talk to my sponsee about. Sometimes people need guidance. There is a big difference between talking about drug addiction in the "need to know" realm and the euphoric recall......I've noticed that for some people it becomes a big game of one up manship.....I was the biggest baddest drug addict of all....isn't it enough to be an addict seeking recovery?

Paul83

ugh... just how on earth do we expect someone straight in off the streets and into their first meeting to have a sponsor to share these intimate details with?

see: reiteration & example

tolerance? acceptance? not thinking you know anything because the second you do you limit your own growth? are these in your all's programs?

maybe we should begin by concentrating not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in ourselves and our attitudes

I accept things as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake.

SaTiT

There's no rules in NA.
We suggest that you share what you need to share to stay clean.
I get sick and tire of peaple bitching about this is that right way.too

lightseeker

sorry to have offended anyone - I retract my comments.

godsonmyside

There are Guidelines that keep our Fellowship alive and free.

So at a few days clean folks should be speaking the NA Language that many of us learned over a period of time?

If others are really going to use over someone saying a specific drug, don't you believe they are looking for a reason to use anyway? Thats just like saying a 4th step made you use, when actually it was not getting honest while building the foundation in the first that takes you back out the door. Held on to a reservation that burned a hole in your pocket.

Empathy is a huge part of why NA works, Patients and Tolerance!!!! It's easier to B!TCH about what someone is saying rather than to show them what works. The members that cant stay clean and keep coming back, its easier to say they will never get clean rather than take them out for coffee and be apart of there finding recovery.

Its almost like finding the Spiritual Awakening and the freedom from the self made prison and saying nobody else has what I have, while in the same tokken, where did I find my freedom, in Narcotics Anonymous, the Program that was so freely given to me, I can only keep it by giving it away.
Self Rightousness is usually a Defect we pick up during our recovery process, its that we forgot what it was like when we got clean our selves.

When I got clean in 87 for the second time I went to rehab, and went to a NA meeting, walked through the door. This big guy walked up to me and said "You're chairing thre meeting", I had 2 weeks clean. So, what E,S&H did I have? I shared how the cops ripped me off, it was the courts fault that I was even in rehab, BLA, BLA, BLA!!!!!!!!! The big Guy got up after I shared and said welcome, "I've got Good news and Bad news!

The Good news is, you're in the right place, Bad news is Drugs aren't your only problem". Not to say that that kept me clean , but I learned from folks that took time to help me along the way.

God doesn't help thse that help them selves, he helps those who ask for help.

Peace,
Todd J.

Gooch

You've come along way brother.. You've learned to encourage others to keep coming back while in the same breath promising them you'll call them on their bull crap. lol

For years I had the right idea just was applying it to all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons til the guy in the mirror looked back at me and said" bout time you started to practice what your so fond of yakkin about."

The reason I like that "you spot it you got it" slogan is that It's true.. If I'm spottin it I got it. ( and I surely do ) It;s when I'm not spottin it that I'm more bound to allready be actin on it.

Just being able to admit to myself I'm considerin actin on a defect gets me a lot closer to the solution than bitchin about somebody elses.

Recoveree

criticizing you for what you shared by telling you to let people share whatever they want

ironic isn't it??

lightseeker

I agree, it was good to see that someone else caught that as well. Interesting stuff this rightousness issue.

Gooch

criticism?

or another viewpint that when expressed prickles the thin skin?

are we bound to feel singled out and defensive when a contrary opinion is expressed? or will the freedom from self promised in the literature also free of us of fear of reprisal?