Healing
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Healing
I wanted to share some upbeat news. I have been working on my healing for quite some time, I had a lovely experience over the last couple of days which showed me just how far I have come. I am pleased.
I know a person who was long term sober, about ten years. Anyways he decided to relapse so disappeared for about a year to drink.
Ok fine. But, and this is the part that delighted me. When he reappeared and tried to contact me, I found him repulsive. He wasn't the kindly, gentle, nice man I knew when he was long term sober. My whole body yelled "keep away" from him. He felt creepy, manipulative, untrustworthy. A predator.
He isn't the same man, his brain is working from a different place. He is still on'/off drinking.
No, thank you! So I removed him from my life.
The other thing that cropped up that I was pleased with my gut instinct was another alcoholic contacting me. No, thanks. I didn't even ask what he wanted. Just blocked him immediately. I do not need people like that in my life. He also felt like a predator.
Now for context, the old me due to being groomed/trained in childhood would immediately have responded to these two people with my time, my understanding, my "help", etc blah blah.
I would have been hooked in by whatever b/s story they gave. The poor them lies. etc. My formative years training was to completely give up myself and give whatever they were asking of me without question. I saw no red flags, no danger. Nothing. I would have rushed in as I was trained to do.
No boundaries. I have good boundaries now.
Anyone else relate to any of this?
I know a person who was long term sober, about ten years. Anyways he decided to relapse so disappeared for about a year to drink.
Ok fine. But, and this is the part that delighted me. When he reappeared and tried to contact me, I found him repulsive. He wasn't the kindly, gentle, nice man I knew when he was long term sober. My whole body yelled "keep away" from him. He felt creepy, manipulative, untrustworthy. A predator.
He isn't the same man, his brain is working from a different place. He is still on'/off drinking.
No, thank you! So I removed him from my life.
The other thing that cropped up that I was pleased with my gut instinct was another alcoholic contacting me. No, thanks. I didn't even ask what he wanted. Just blocked him immediately. I do not need people like that in my life. He also felt like a predator.
Now for context, the old me due to being groomed/trained in childhood would immediately have responded to these two people with my time, my understanding, my "help", etc blah blah.
I would have been hooked in by whatever b/s story they gave. The poor them lies. etc. My formative years training was to completely give up myself and give whatever they were asking of me without question. I saw no red flags, no danger. Nothing. I would have rushed in as I was trained to do.
No boundaries. I have good boundaries now.
Anyone else relate to any of this?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Thanks for the likes. 
Anyone else got any recovery work progress to share?
Us working on our codependency is an absolute life changer for us and those around us. It changes our whole world.
I can remember my utter shock when I first started attending Al-anon, got a sponsor, was doing the work and started to hear about my part in why my life was how it was. That me being with one toxic or/and alcoholic partner after another was not just happening somehow magically on its own. It was me creating it. My choices, who I was attracted to.
Gosh, difficult to hear that, let alone accept it. It was true though.
Anyone else got any recovery work progress to share?
Us working on our codependency is an absolute life changer for us and those around us. It changes our whole world.
I can remember my utter shock when I first started attending Al-anon, got a sponsor, was doing the work and started to hear about my part in why my life was how it was. That me being with one toxic or/and alcoholic partner after another was not just happening somehow magically on its own. It was me creating it. My choices, who I was attracted to.
Gosh, difficult to hear that, let alone accept it. It was true though.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: New England
Posts: 83
I have a small one. I have this habit of offering my home to those who need a place. I have regretted it every. single. time. Yet I still offer, I feel guilty if I don't. You don't even have to ask. I will just offer it up, no questions asked.
I have done this five times since 2006.
I have been talking to a friend from high school. Every time we talk he goes on and on and woe is me... his girlfriend kicked his jobless self out, he had trouble finding someplace else to stay, found someplace else and it last a week, now he is staying in a tent on their property. He doesn't have a job or anything. He had a job for a week but quit because he didn't have anyone to take care of his dog.
My first instinct was to offer for him to come stay here. I felt very guilty and very uncomfortable NOT offering it. I texted a close friend because I was really struggling. Like I would type "I have a room in my basement if you need it" - then delete it, then retyped it, then deleted it. I didn't end up offering, which for me is a pretty big deal. I don't feel guilty any more, but part of me does still feel bad about it, even though I know it is not my responsibility to take care of this grown man, who is actually a couple years older than me.
I have done this five times since 2006.
I have been talking to a friend from high school. Every time we talk he goes on and on and woe is me... his girlfriend kicked his jobless self out, he had trouble finding someplace else to stay, found someplace else and it last a week, now he is staying in a tent on their property. He doesn't have a job or anything. He had a job for a week but quit because he didn't have anyone to take care of his dog.
My first instinct was to offer for him to come stay here. I felt very guilty and very uncomfortable NOT offering it. I texted a close friend because I was really struggling. Like I would type "I have a room in my basement if you need it" - then delete it, then retyped it, then deleted it. I didn't end up offering, which for me is a pretty big deal. I don't feel guilty any more, but part of me does still feel bad about it, even though I know it is not my responsibility to take care of this grown man, who is actually a couple years older than me.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 21
I didn’t JADE when my sister sent me a manipulative text, and I didn’t mention the text to anyone else in our extended family. In the past, I would have wanted to explain myself and seek relief in trying to fix things, even though I know I did nothing wrong. Instead, I sat with the discomfort and processed the emotions. I can let my sister be wrong about me- I can’t control her feelings, nor am I responsible for them.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: New England
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Jessica38 
I didn’t JADE when my sister sent me a manipulative text, and I didn’t mention the text to anyone else in our extended family. In the past, I would have wanted to explain myself and seek relief in trying to fix things, even though I know I did nothing wrong. Instead, I sat with the discomfort and processed the emotions. I can let my sister be wrong about me- I can’t control her feelings, nor am I responsible for them.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: New England
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Bute
Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.
I'm sure there is a post about it, but I can't remember where.
Much Love
Bute x
I'm sure there is a post about it, but I can't remember where.
Much Love
Bute x
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
JADE - Don't Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain — Out of the FOG
This is from "Out of the Fog" which is an incredible website. It is an absolute gold mine of information and coping tools. It is to help people with a person with a personality disorder in their life but it works just as well for people with alcoholics in their life, imo.
If it is a breach of copyright to post this link, please remove it, Mods.
This is from "Out of the Fog" which is an incredible website. It is an absolute gold mine of information and coping tools. It is to help people with a person with a personality disorder in their life but it works just as well for people with alcoholics in their life, imo.
If it is a breach of copyright to post this link, please remove it, Mods.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Originally Posted by Jessica38
I didn’t JADE when my sister sent me a manipulative text, and I didn’t mention the text to anyone else in our extended family. In the past, I would have wanted to explain myself and seek relief in trying to fix things, even though I know I did nothing wrong. Instead, I sat with the discomfort and processed the emotions. I can let my sister be wrong about me- I can’t control her feelings, nor am I responsible for them.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 276
One for me is related to boundaries also. I would call it my ability to keep my mouth shut, say nothing, avoid conflict at all costs. Then I would take my frustration out on someone who didn't deserve it....or overshare with someone totally inappropriate. I have taken a step this week to finally do something about a problem with a neighbour. I have ben tolerant, agreeable, helpful, but I was doing that in order to avoid saying how I really feel or to take action. I took action, reasonable and appropriate. I wonder if I can manage the potential conflict that may come and this is practice to let go of the POTENTIAl outcome of my actions. I learned from my upbringing that I had very little of value to contribute, I was the baby and why would anyone listen to me? I was told my actions and directions were wrong, my friends were bad, on and on. I spent 10 years or so accepting someone doing something harmful and said nothing until I could. Bottom line, recovery is slow and I "pray" I can stay with it. Thanks for the awesome thread. Love hearing what people are experiencing in their recovery.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Originally Posted by woodlandlost
One for me is related to boundaries also. I would call it my ability to keep my mouth shut, say nothing, avoid conflict at all costs. Then I would take my frustration out on someone who didn't deserve it....or overshare with someone totally inappropriate. I have taken a step this week to finally do something about a problem with a neighbour. I have ben tolerant, agreeable, helpful, but I was doing that in order to avoid saying how I really feel or to take action. I took action, reasonable and appropriate. I wonder if I can manage the potential conflict that may come and this is practice to let go of the POTENTIAl outcome of my actions. I learned from my upbringing that I had very little of value to contribute, I was the baby and why would anyone listen to me? I was told my actions and directions were wrong, my friends were bad, on and on. I spent 10 years or so accepting someone doing something harmful and said nothing until I could. Bottom line, recovery is slow and I "pray" I can stay with it. Thanks for the awesome thread. Love hearing what people are experiencing in their recovery.
I relate to holding it in to try and keep the peace at all costs, then it sort of leaks out in other ways. The pressure seeps out.
Glad you are enjoying thread. Good to hear other people share. It strikes me as all remarkable similar really. The results of our dysfunctional upbringing make us act and see ourselves in very similar ways.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,653
Originally Posted by woodlandlost
I took action, reasonable and appropriate. I wonder if I can manage the potential conflict that may come and this is practice to let go of the POTENTIAl outcome of my actions.
Potential tool here - when conflict arises (say the neighbour confronts you in some way), that's when to say nothing lol - back to JADE. Or grey rock with something like, I hear you or uh huh, hard to say, you may be right, well all we can do is carry on etc. Memorize a few for times when this might occur and you will be set and not dreading it so much. Also, you are free to walk away at any time!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 136
I don't know if this is exactly the same, but I took a small step for me today. I went to an al-anon meeting this morning. The 2 others I've gone to secretly, without telling my AW. Being covert didn't feel good, so this morning I went to one. She was still sleeping when I went, the kids are at their grandparents. About halfway through the meeting, AW texts me "are you at the grocery". I didn't respond, then 5 minutes later "tim, what's up?". I knew she'd be worried because she always likes/needs to know where I am. But again, I didn't respond, I was in the meeting and engaging with the conversation and didn't want to pull myself out of that.
In the past, I would have immediately responded. In terms of the al-anon, I might have even lied about where I was to avoid conflict. When I got back, she said "where were you, I was worried." I simply said, I went to an al-anon meeting" and left it at that. There was no need to justify, argue, defend, or explain. She said "oh, I thought maybe that's where you were, I just wasn't sure because I woke up and you weren't here. I thought maybe you went to the grocery, into work, or that you did go to al-anon." Again, I kept my boundary and said "that's where I went. It was good." Then I went upstairs to work.
A few weeks ago, I would've had this conversation in my head before it even happened. I would've played out all the ways it could've gone and been prepared to JADE all the way through it! Not today, I decided to do something for myself and there was no need to get into the "why" I was doing it.
It felt good, the whole thing. The meeting, how I handled it with AW.
I feel I'm growing and it feels really good!
In the past, I would have immediately responded. In terms of the al-anon, I might have even lied about where I was to avoid conflict. When I got back, she said "where were you, I was worried." I simply said, I went to an al-anon meeting" and left it at that. There was no need to justify, argue, defend, or explain. She said "oh, I thought maybe that's where you were, I just wasn't sure because I woke up and you weren't here. I thought maybe you went to the grocery, into work, or that you did go to al-anon." Again, I kept my boundary and said "that's where I went. It was good." Then I went upstairs to work.
A few weeks ago, I would've had this conversation in my head before it even happened. I would've played out all the ways it could've gone and been prepared to JADE all the way through it! Not today, I decided to do something for myself and there was no need to get into the "why" I was doing it.
It felt good, the whole thing. The meeting, how I handled it with AW.
I feel I'm growing and it feels really good!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Good work, Tim. Each step brings some of our self esteem back or builds it if we didn't have it in the first place.
I went to my first couple of Al-anon meetings without telling my late AH. From others at Al-anon, I understand this is common. Some never told their alcoholic spouses they were attending, especially if they were violent.
I went to my first couple of Al-anon meetings without telling my late AH. From others at Al-anon, I understand this is common. Some never told their alcoholic spouses they were attending, especially if they were violent.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
I set some difficult boundaries last night.
A situation suddenly came up. Instead of feeling I ought to respond immediately, I stepped back and said to the people I wanted some time to think before I replied.
That was a big deal. My old programming was that I had to reply instantly, also that my reply should be saying what I thought the people wanted to hear rather than my actual opinion and thoughts.
Sat back, anxiety racing through my body. I was unclear what was true to my real self. Sat and felt all the feelings. Gradually my real reaction started to surface until suddenly it was completely clear.
What the real me, not the old ingrained codependent/fawn/people pleaser/living in survival mode version of me felt I should give.
So then deep breath, I let the people know. My head felt it would explode as I was so far away from my old pre-programmed dysfunctional role.
They responded and completely accepted my view point and preference.
Me - huge breath out! Anxiety faded over the next hour or so.
Now I have to add here that these were healthy people I was dealing with. Toxic people would not have accepted my reply, not for one second. They never would have asked my preference, as they would have been in control and been dictating not asking. I have removed people like that from my life.
I felt pleased with how I handled it, the easy way would have been for me to go along with it all but inside I would have felt I had let myself down and disrespected myself.
It is initially harder to speak up but it is even harder if you don't as then you regret it and feel resentful of doing something you should have said no thanks to.
I think every time we do it, it gets easier as we practise, it becomes our new way of doing things.
Anyone relate to any of this?
A situation suddenly came up. Instead of feeling I ought to respond immediately, I stepped back and said to the people I wanted some time to think before I replied.
That was a big deal. My old programming was that I had to reply instantly, also that my reply should be saying what I thought the people wanted to hear rather than my actual opinion and thoughts.
Sat back, anxiety racing through my body. I was unclear what was true to my real self. Sat and felt all the feelings. Gradually my real reaction started to surface until suddenly it was completely clear.
What the real me, not the old ingrained codependent/fawn/people pleaser/living in survival mode version of me felt I should give.
So then deep breath, I let the people know. My head felt it would explode as I was so far away from my old pre-programmed dysfunctional role.
They responded and completely accepted my view point and preference.
Me - huge breath out! Anxiety faded over the next hour or so.
Now I have to add here that these were healthy people I was dealing with. Toxic people would not have accepted my reply, not for one second. They never would have asked my preference, as they would have been in control and been dictating not asking. I have removed people like that from my life.
I felt pleased with how I handled it, the easy way would have been for me to go along with it all but inside I would have felt I had let myself down and disrespected myself.
It is initially harder to speak up but it is even harder if you don't as then you regret it and feel resentful of doing something you should have said no thanks to.
I think every time we do it, it gets easier as we practise, it becomes our new way of doing things.
Anyone relate to any of this?
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by PeacefulWater12
I set some difficult boundaries last night.
A situation suddenly came up. Instead of feeling I ought to respond immediately, I stepped back and said to the people I wanted some time to think before I replied.
That was a big deal. My old programming was that I had to reply instantly, also that my reply should be saying what I thought the people wanted to hear rather than my actual opinion and thoughts.
Sat back, anxiety racing through my body. I was unclear what was true to my real self. Sat and felt all the feelings. Gradually my real reaction started to surface until suddenly it was completely clear.
What the real me, not the old ingrained codependent/fawn/people pleaser/living in survival mode version of me felt I should give.
So then deep breath, I let the people know. My head felt it would explode as I was so far away from my old pre-programmed dysfunctional role.
They responded and completely accepted my view point and preference.
Me - huge breath out! Anxiety faded over the next hour or so.
Now I have to add here that these were healthy people I was dealing with. Toxic people would not have accepted my reply, not for one second. They never would have asked my preference, as they would have been in control and been dictating not asking. I have removed people like that from my life.
I felt pleased with how I handled it, the easy way would have been for me to go along with it all but inside I would have felt I had let myself down and disrespected myself.
It is initially harder to speak up but it is even harder if you don't as then you regret it and feel resentful of doing something you should have said no thanks to.
I think every time we do it, it gets easier as we practise, it becomes our new way of doing things.
Anyone relate to any of this?
A situation suddenly came up. Instead of feeling I ought to respond immediately, I stepped back and said to the people I wanted some time to think before I replied.
That was a big deal. My old programming was that I had to reply instantly, also that my reply should be saying what I thought the people wanted to hear rather than my actual opinion and thoughts.
Sat back, anxiety racing through my body. I was unclear what was true to my real self. Sat and felt all the feelings. Gradually my real reaction started to surface until suddenly it was completely clear.
What the real me, not the old ingrained codependent/fawn/people pleaser/living in survival mode version of me felt I should give.
So then deep breath, I let the people know. My head felt it would explode as I was so far away from my old pre-programmed dysfunctional role.
They responded and completely accepted my view point and preference.
Me - huge breath out! Anxiety faded over the next hour or so.
Now I have to add here that these were healthy people I was dealing with. Toxic people would not have accepted my reply, not for one second. They never would have asked my preference, as they would have been in control and been dictating not asking. I have removed people like that from my life.
I felt pleased with how I handled it, the easy way would have been for me to go along with it all but inside I would have felt I had let myself down and disrespected myself.
It is initially harder to speak up but it is even harder if you don't as then you regret it and feel resentful of doing something you should have said no thanks to.
I think every time we do it, it gets easier as we practise, it becomes our new way of doing things.
Anyone relate to any of this?
I find that if I can let the words sit for a moment and if I can take a few breaths or drink some water, I can let go of the old programming, feel through the feelings and let them go, and I can usually find a healthy response that respects my boundaries as well as those to whom I'm responding.
I think in this day of instant messages and instant communication it's expected we respond instantly. I have learnt to sit back and let a few minutes pass before I respond to text messages, voicemail, email so that I can be clear about my response. And of course, if it's an in - person conversation, I ask for a moment. I'm finding that my gut reaction is becoming more healthy and on target than the old programming, which still pops up, but more as a memory of how I'd once have acted, not as how I'm currently inclined to respond.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Originally Posted by sage1969
Oh, yes, I can relate! My teens are reluctantly becoming accustomed to me needing time to respond (in my FOO and frequently with my teens, people talk over me or finish my sentences, so my old programming thinks I'm not being heard or that my opinion doesn't matter, and wants to shout an emotional response). I've had to consciously take time each time I feel pressure on my boundaries. I will often repeat back what I think I heard said to me, then if I'm not certain what my response will be I will say that I need time (I'm specific about how much) before I respond.
I find that if I can let the words sit for a moment and if I can take a few breaths or drink some water, I can let go of the old programming, feel through the feelings and let them go, and I can usually find a healthy response that respects my boundaries as well as those to whom I'm responding.
I think in this day of instant messages and instant communication it's expected we respond instantly. I have learnt to sit back and let a few minutes pass before I respond to text messages, voicemail, email so that I can be clear about my response. And of course, if it's an in - person conversation, I ask for a moment. I'm finding that my gut reaction is becoming more healthy and on target than the old programming, which still pops up, but more as a memory of how I'd once have acted, not as how I'm currently inclined to respond.
I find that if I can let the words sit for a moment and if I can take a few breaths or drink some water, I can let go of the old programming, feel through the feelings and let them go, and I can usually find a healthy response that respects my boundaries as well as those to whom I'm responding.
I think in this day of instant messages and instant communication it's expected we respond instantly. I have learnt to sit back and let a few minutes pass before I respond to text messages, voicemail, email so that I can be clear about my response. And of course, if it's an in - person conversation, I ask for a moment. I'm finding that my gut reaction is becoming more healthy and on target than the old programming, which still pops up, but more as a memory of how I'd once have acted, not as how I'm currently inclined to respond.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 26
I have a tiny win I can share. I recently downloaded Codependent No More as an audiobook and am about 60% of the way through. I was a bit skeptical because it was originally published in the - 80s/90sish? - and wondered if there would be anything of relevance to me. However, so many of you have such valuable insight and spoke so highly of it, I figured there was no harm it playing it in the background as I did laundry, walked the dog, etc.
Oh my gosh - it's like it was talking to me. As if it was written for me and about me in 2022. I appreciate the recommendation so much, and while I'm still working on navigating some blurry lines with my STBXAH, I think self-awareness and better understanding my own actions and motives is a win. And this book has given me a TON of that. So thank you to you all!
Oh my gosh - it's like it was talking to me. As if it was written for me and about me in 2022. I appreciate the recommendation so much, and while I'm still working on navigating some blurry lines with my STBXAH, I think self-awareness and better understanding my own actions and motives is a win. And this book has given me a TON of that. So thank you to you all!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
