Hen1

Hi again, I recently posted "confusing relationship situation " which will give you more background if you wish but I have some specific questions that more experienced people may be able to answer.


in a nutshell, I started dating this nice man 6 months ago. He drinks a lot each weekend and that is normal for my country unfortunately however most people leave it at Friday Saturday night and live normal lives after, he tended to stay in bed after these benders for Monday, Tuesday, missing work etc and complaining of anxiety depression (which which stated je didn't need treatment for, something I am on medication for so I assured him I wasn't judging just concerned).

I have little to no knowledge of addicts and alcoholism though in the past few weeks since our break I've learned a lot but prior...no, I just thought he liked to party hard even though he's mid 40s because alcohol is such a big part of my culture.

anyway, on a couple occasions he missed and didnt show up to plans with me which was really a shock. He apologised and put it down to the anxiety. Ok. I said to him at one point he was always drinking or tipsy when I arrived to his house on weekends and he hadnt been like that before and I didnt like it, he agreed he was acting stupid lately and told me it was stress so I figured he would stop.

but we had a bad and stupid argument at 3am recently which resulted in him moving me by the shoulder out of a room and then packing up my things and throwing them at me, first at my head, then at my legs. I was crying and upset during this and he's never ever behaved like that before or even shown a temper.

we tried to make up but he wasnt even hugely apologetic, just "sorry" no big efforts to make it up to me like you read about with abusive relationships....and he's never been abusive ever before. (I think in retrospect the next day he was in fact severely hungover something I didn't realise at the time) and we agreed to meet the following day where he again, blanked on our plans.

he contacted me some days later and told me we needed to split as we were arguing too much lately and I told him that Ihadnt intended contacting him again after he yet again missing our plans (I drove 2 hours for this) and coming so soon after the bad fight and that his drinking was causing the fights and he was like a different man to the nice one I met some months ago.

He replied asking could we meet up and I suggested a day the next week...its been a week and I've never heard back from him.

I guess my question is can anyone explain why that is, or what may be going on in his head? He zertainly seems to be having a drinking problem to me as it interferes with his work, me and his now almost constant "anxiety depression". But we never got to discuss his drinking much cos I've figured a lot of this out very late.

But I don't understand how he can just discard me like he did, after 6 good months, meeting families, all the usual stuff. He seems like a different guy the last month.

nez

If anyone could explain what is going on in his head, what would this change for you? How would the change impact your actions in the present and the future?

By far the biggest impact in my life, is what goes on in my head and my subsequent actions. Because of that, I spend most of my energies on trying to figure out what is going on in my head and why, rather than on the inner workings of other people's craniums, which follows the law of diminishing returns.

suki44883

I agree...he has shown you the real him. Most alcoholics are able to put their best foot forward for a while, but eventually, the true person is revealed.

Since you asked for advice, here's mine...Leave this alone. He is not relationship material. He was abusive toward you and abuse is never okay. Don't stick around for it to happen again, which it most likely will. You deserve better.

Hen1

I have a history of abusive relationships without addiction involved and and guy was the most opposite of anyone I'd met before, so it was a real shock what he did. But was it abusive? I guess if a friend described it to me I would think so but I have trouble understanding things like that for myself, I guess I expect poor treatment at this stage so these changes over the last month with him while not welcome have also not maybe surprised or shocked me like they would someone with a more lucky background :-/

Hen1

Thank you. I guess it would give me closure to understand why he doesn't want me anymore when it was HIM who behaved so badly.

velma929

None of us normal folks know what's going on in any alcoholic's head. We can only guess: The reason he or any other addict walks away from a partner is because being single gives one more time to drink. "I said to him at one point he was always drinking or tipsy when I arrived to his house on weekends and he hadnt been like that before and I didnt like it. " You have now caught on the the pattern and are agitating for change, which would be a normal reaction. It's not an effective reaction, but it is a normal one.

He didn't change. He just stopped trying to pretend to be normal. Alcoholism is progressive. There are many alcoholics who grow accustomed to drinking large amounts every day, and gradually, the urge to drink overwhelms the desire to go to work [ or pay attention to a spouse, nurture children, engage in hobbies].

My husband drank a lot, even though his parents were tee-totalers. Eventually, his company was being disbanded and he knew he'd be out of a job. He chose to stay to the end and go on unemployment. It wasn't until the unemployment benefits were about to run out that he even made a pretense at looking for work. By that time he'd spent a year at home, and he was in the habit of drinking even more. He did get a job, but now he was hungover many mornings and arrived late, and his cravings caused him to leave work early to get home to start drinking. Some days, he barely worked six of what should have been eight hour days. He lost this job and then two more, each time spending his time unemployed drinking more. Each time he found work again, it was a a lower-level job, with less benefits, and a pay cut. At the end, he was just full of excuses at to why he couldn't look for work - - but the real reason was, now he couldn't go eight or nine hours without booze. And truthfully, at that point, he probably would have needed to be hospitalized to detox safely.

Over the years he drank, he stopped engaging in hobbies. We didn't go anywhere or do any thing unless there was a steady flow of alcohol available at that activity. That's the nature of the beast.

The US has really, a horrible drinking culture. In many communities, getting wasted on one's 21st birthday is considered a rite of passage. Teenagers drink too, and consider it a huge joke. The number of parties I've been to where people talk about getting stoned on cannabis and how hysterical it is to go out driving that way is appalling. I wouldn't say it's country-wide, but in some families drug abuse is a multi-generational experience. Sometimes children are removed from their parents' care owing to the parents' drug use, and the grandparents are addicts as well, so the kids end up in the foster system or raised by great-grandparents (probably not an optimal situation, either.)

We no longer see Foster Brooks acting out scenes where he's a drunk dentist or drunk airline pilot (he was kind of a one-trick pony) but frankly, I don't think the attitude has changed. It just not politically correct to portray it humorously on TV. Some countries may have a culture where spending time in bars is a way of socializing. I think here maybe more people drink at home, but most addicts minimize or lie about how much they drink. Different symptom, same result.

trailmix

I do notice you tend to make excuses for him. Like he threw your things at you and you stood there crying and he left you there - but then you say, well he was probably hung over.

He did that because he is self-centered (as most alcoholics are) and his main concern is alcohol and then himself - everything and I mean EVERYTHING is secondary to that. His problem(s) are so big he doesn't have the time or energy to concern himself with anyone or anything else unless he absolutely has to (like maybe going to work or attending a family dinner if it's really expected).

So, he held it together for you for a few months. Maybe cut down on his drinking a bit, hid it well, but he couldn't put on that performance any longer.

So what is he thinking, he's thinking about drinking and himself. It's not easy being an addict. Think of your life and what you (responsibly) have to do, work, cook, clean, shop, laundry, pay bills, family, friends etc etc. Now, try to do all that drunk and with the anxiety and depression that follows when you do manage to stay sober for a bit (that's a kick back to drinking in many cases, when an alcoholic tries to stay sober for a short period of time).

You deserve so much better. This truly is not about you personally, this is about his addiction. He didn't "discard" you personally, he just needs to drink. That is what he is telling you about the arguing etc. instead of coming out and saying that he can't handle it. He is not relationship material right now.

trailmix

Boundaries! Boundaries are like guides for yourself. What will you put up with and what will you not put up with. Perhaps you have challenges with self-worth or self-esteem? That would be a great thing to work on.

There is a book - Codependent no more - by Melody Beatty, that you might want to download. It's an easy read and talks about boundaries (and relationships etc). You might find it helpful in setting your own boundaries.

Hen1

Thank you all SO much the advice here is just excellent.

I guess I miss him, quite a lot, and I'm worried for him, especially cos now I realise his problems are way bigger than I previously realised. And also also hurts, as affects thr self esteem, to think he doesn't miss me or care much at all

trailmix

It really is a mistake to think about him caring about you or missing you, he doesn't have the capacity for that. You can't apply "normal" relationship/feeling/caring things to a person in active addiction. Well you can, but it's not accurate.

Please read this thread a few times, maybe come back and read it again in a few hours too. It's not about you. In a "normal" relationship, romantic or even friends or family, when two people part, whether that's a break up or one moves to another country - they miss the person. Remember, he is thinking about drinking, you can't fit in to that. Relationships take time and energy and thoughtfulness and all those things he can't do right now.

If you think he is caring about others (friends, family) he's not doing that either!

He was an alcoholic before you met him, he will be fine in his own way, he will just be doing, again, what he was doing before he met you (drinking), so no real gain to be made by worrying about him, he's a grown man, he will do what he will do, you know what I mean?

Hen1

yes I'm beginning to understand...today I saw him on his business social media account and couldn't but think 'you have time for that but not to reply to me when it was you who asked me to meet you...and I agreed?' Wtf?

dandylion

Hen.....you ask us what is going on in his head. No one, here, can do that. In fact, there is no one who can know exactly what is going on in some other person's mind.
Lol...if you ever do find someone who can tell you what is going on in another person's head----please notify us, because that will become International News....lol.
The best that any of us can do is to make an "educated guess" based on the totality of their actions.

Your guy's actions, based on what you have shared, say this----typical, predictable alcoholic behavior. His behavior follows the same story that y ou will see written on the thousands----yes, thousands----of stories on this forum. Almost word for word.
Many of the other posters have posted some of those behaviors for you. It can be very helpful to go back and reread the posts on your threads. It can take a while to wrap your head around these concepts.
A main one is the fact that when an alcoholic is asked to change their behavior---especially, the behavior that comes from their drinking----they will exit the relationship---choosing the alcohol over the person that they are dating, The alcoholic will let nothing come between them and their alcohol......and they will resent anyone who tries.

Yes, many will try to "act normal and nice" during the early part of a relationship---but, they aren't able to do that forever, and then the facade begins to crumble.

I know that this hits you hard. You bonded with him, and felt that you had found the person that you wanted to attach your wagon to his star. Being unschooled in the true nature of the condition of alcoholism,-----you are really shocked and bitterly disappointed as to how much he kept under the surface.
And, yes, I do think that his behaviors---like throwing the clothes at your head while you stood there crying is Abusive. It shows what direction he will take when his inhibitions are lowered (by alcohol) and he becomes frustrated.
By the way, this kind of behavior tends to grow worse, over time, as alcoholism grows worse over time. Alcoholism and abuse both tend to grow worse over time.

Hen....just so that you know....."Nice" guys are not just nice some of the time, or even most of the time---truly nice guys are nice ALL of the time!
There are millions and millions of men who never, ever throw things at their girlfriend or wife---or ever shove or pusthem....or, ghost them, etc.

We can see that you are heartbroken and are desperately wishing for a way to hold on to this relationship. It is common for the heartbroken to feel this way--and, it earns our compassion. You will need time to grieve this loss and to learn as much as you can from this bitter experience. It has happened to lots of us!

I fervently hope that you will read the book that trailmix suggested----"Co-dependent No More"
and---since you have implied that you have had abusive partners, in the past--I also suggest that you read the book "Why Does He Do That". I think it will really be worth your investment of your time....

PeacefulWater12

He has shown you who he is, is not about you, it is his behaviour.

I encourage you to focus on yourself. Great book suggestions given above. Co-dependent No More is a real eye opener. By working on ourselves we can change our ingrained patterns as we move forward.

velma929

You know what? It may help to consider rather than "doesn't miss or care" that he just can't. He doesn't have it in him.

Think of the normal people you know. They want connections, friends, a lover. They take the money they earn and go to dinner with friends, buy a jacket they like, go to a movie, buy some snacks and play cards with buddies. Clean up the apartment/flat/ home so it's not a pig sty. Engage in a hobby: basketball with friends, go to the gym, a book club, a quilting guild, a political club. You've written heavy drinking is 'part of the culture' as if it's okay and you just have to accept it. I guarantee you there are people around you who aren't drinking themselves into a stupor every week. You're not required to think heavy drinking okay. It isn't your job to be a one-woman temperance force, but you can find people who aren't on this path.

thequest

Exactly. 'Part of the culture'. Isn't that what alcoholics and addicts do-rationalize, make excuses to justify their behavior.

Hen1

I know what you mean and I don't think it's OK but it's what made me not spot probably obvious signs a lot earlier, because Irish men are unfortunately famous for drinking too much.

trailmix

Yes, there is no way for you to tell really, especially since he was obviously hiding the extent of his drinking. Going forward you will have extra information now, with the people you meet. You will see signs that you didn't see before.

Although one missed date for an incredibly good reason (stuck in a snow bank) is ok, otherwise, not ok. You can date an alcoholic, many do, many marry them, but this is how it is. You will always be secondary to the alcohol, no question.

You mentioned you have been in not-great relationships before. I know it's hard, especially initially, to sometimes spot what is up with some people, especially if they are on their best behaviour to start with (or hiding!). Is the new behaviour just a glitch or have they let their defenses down? But, that's what dating is about, getting to know someone well enough to know that. When you know, you can decide if the relationship is right for you (not for him, for you).

Hen1

So true. I had done a lot of therapy and understood the red flags of previous exs who had been no good for me, though without alcohol issues....and well this guy was different. No red flags. Kind, normal, nice. Until he wasn't obviously. Even the missed dates (and then no contact for 6 days which I spent worried sick) just got a "sorry", new business stress etc, he didn't seem to understand how hard or selfish it was to do that. I put everything from the last month down to the stress of a new job as he was telling me it was the problem, little did I know it was just the timing of him showing his true colours.

trailmix

Yes, it's just awful but it does happen (as you will see when reading other threads). No contact for 6 days, there is no excuse (again, except stuck in a snowbank for 6 days).

That's why boundaries are so important. One might be, when dating I will accept one excuse for a missed date, but not two.

Now, people have problems (your ex has many), what are you willing to cope with? Those are things to think about before the next relationship I suppose. Let's take alcoholism off the table, say he just had some mental health issues - depression and anxiety, which can be very debilitating alone, is that something you can deal with, or is that a deal breaker for you?

We all have to deal as things come to us in relationships, but having ideas ahead of time of what is hurtful to you, what will make your life miserable (like someone disappearing for a week) etc, is good to think about (I think).

We can't change people, what you see is what you get. Things like putting your own dishes in the dishwasher can be negotiated (sometimes!) personality things, not really.

Want to know if a person is an alcoholic, take them to dinner where alcohol is served and suggest you guys don't drink that night ! Or ask them if they are. You may not get a straight answer (which is an answer) - well no I only really go overboard on the weekend but I like a few beers after work, maybe one at lunch but I don't think that's a big deal and and etc.

Hen1

Great advice, thank you.

After the 6 day event, when he told me he had been in bed depressed and anxious (I don't don't know it's true now orif he was drinking, but I believed him then) about the new job etc, I told him that he could never treat me like that again, explained I would leave if he did etc, and thought I made my boundary incredibly clear. I was shocked anyone could treat anyone so badly...I find it easier to understand a lost temper that comes and goes quickly but six full days of knowing you're hurting someone? I should have left then instead he essentially is doing the same to me now except I've decided I'm gone from the whole situation it's too much for me to cope with.