Maddoc78

Hi All, first time posting here....I have been reading the forums and found them helpful. I also did post this in the alcoholics forum to get a perspective from addicts who have been there......and I apologize for the length. But here goes.

I separated from my husband last year, after one rebound relationship (long story) and a few months single, I signed up for online dating. Had a bunch of first dates that went nowhere.....and then I connected with the subject of this post, I will call him M. M and I hit it off texting right away....he was funny, wicked smart, a dog person as am I. Conversation was effortless. This was 3 months ago now. For the first 6 weeks, we texted daily and facetimed most weeknights for an hour or two at a time. It was a nice change from the other guys I met online who just wanted to hook up on the first date. I didn't even get a kiss until a month in....basically, when we met, I learned two weeks in, he was finishing up his alcohol education classes he needed to take as part of his DUI plea. He also had a restricted license.....we talked the night he finished classes and he said he was grateful for what they taught him and especially the part about relationships. Since his divorce 9 years ago, he hasn't had a long term relationship and went through his wild phase. He said he was too old for that crap now and was looking for a stable, steady relationship......how I was so different than anyone he ever dated in terms of my education and he just feels so at home with me. That for the first time in over a year, he felt hopeful. He said he thought I could do a lot better than him and felt bad even expecting I could commit to dating him when he couldn't drive to even take me on a real date, etc for a few more weeks. That he hoped I wasn't still on the app, he wasn't, but couldn't fault me if I was. I told him that was no big deal......I am a busy person and was enjoying getting to know him. The few times we were together he said he wanted to take the sexual side very slow, because typically he rushed into that and well, that had never worked out before. That was fine with me.

Anyway, after he finished classes, a few times we tried to make weekend plans.....and last min he would bail. An emergency.....or just no answer if I tried to set something up. I started to think he was dating someone else. You here probably guessed it----he was just getting drunk. I realized this soon into it because he started facetiming me drunk. At one point it looked like he was losing his house to foreclosure and again he told me he understood if I bailed. I could do better. I told him that was ridiculous...and he did save the house, FYI, without any $$ from me. He started havign more and more issues at work.....and two weeks ago, he lost his job. The last 6 weeks have been a roller coaster of him finally admitting he is an alcoholic (which he says I am the only person he has ever said those words to and meant them)....saying he is done with the drinking, ready to get healthy, and then going off on a bender and calling me for help. And I went. 3 different times I drove in the middle of the night to drag his ass home when he texted for help. TO hear him say he wants to die....that he is a horrible person and too far gone for help, too far gone to be my boyfriend and that I need to forget him and move on. The final time he did it, I missed his calls and texts and woke up to a series of pleas for help and then finally, "**** you." I texted him and explained what happened and told him I think his reaction was a bit extreme.....he broke up with me. Just sent a text saying "I wish you all the best. Take care." This after just earlier in the week telling me how he never wants to lose me, he knows his drinking is worse than it ever has been and it isn't sustainable---that he loves me, he knows he is hard to read and doesn't make it easy but he loved every aspect of me. After the **** you text, he called drunk and again said he is a horrible person and I need to move on. I deserve better and he was sorry he ws such a ********, he didn't want to break up. I said well I didn't either, so ....? It circled back to, you deserve better. That he didn't know if we could stay friends because he would want to kiss me.

Next day, he texted....and we have been texting ever since. Some days I just get very generic texts----pics of the dogs, memes. Other times it is very personal and reminds me of when we first met and connected (like sending selfies and kiss emojis and saying how sexy I am)....last weekend, I spent the weekend at his place. We slept in the same bed and he put his arm around me....but didn't try anything. He is still drinking, but a lot less....he is however, very depressed because he is waiting for his new job to start, so money is low. The state is still in a stay at home status, so no where to really go out to do anything...he did get his full license back.

SO....my questions for you all..... 1). Is there any chance he meant anything he said about what he felt for me and what he wanted?

2)We were intimate a few times, but yes, it is an issue for him because of the drinking, even with pills to help, it didn't go well.....but all I heard from him (when he drinks) was about all the crazy sex he had with all these women, which makes me feel like it is something wrong with me. As a newly single person, that is a bit of a self esteem crusher....how likely is it that it is the addiction causing his lack of interest in sex?

3) related to #2.....is he even romantically interested in me anymore? It seems impossible that someone could go from daily declarations of love, talking about a future together to friend zone, but again, been out of the dating game a long time so, I don't know. Or is it just the addiction that leads to this hot and cold behavior??

4) I am torn between writing him off totally...and maybe if we weren't in the middle of covid, I would have already. But, I do feel like we had a deep connection that formed when he wasn't so sick and I know he doesn't really have any positive people in his circle. Suggestions on how to stay in his life without him thinking I am pushing for a "normal" relationship...or without generally feeling pathetic/like I am begging. Because, I know he isn't capable of that right now....and maybe I need some more post divorce healing as well...

I know that long term there really isn't potential for this to be a lasting romantic thing. But, I do care for him greatly and feel we had a real connection and he doesn't have a lot of positivity in his world right now. He insists he can detox on his own....and two weeks ago he attempted it, of course got very ill, and started drinking again. He quit cold turkey 20 years ago and was sober until 3 years ago and is resistant to getting any sort of organized program or medical detox. Any suggestions (apart from my questions above) on how to guide him to a program/recovery?

SparkleKitty

Honestly, I would get out of his way and let him focus on whether or not he wants recovery, and if so, getting about pursuing it. He is not relationship material at this time. He's not even a very good friend. He is in the fight for his life against addiction, and he is in no position to do anything but wage that fight. Anything that comes between him and it is a distraction.
I was divorced many years ago and felt a powerful impulse to get back into a relationship right away. I couldn't fathom the idea of being alone. But the truth was that I had a marriage to grieve and a lot of self-work to do before I was ready for a healthy relationship. There are a lot of red flags in your description of your courtship with this person, and it may be worth examining why you went ahead anyway.

Maddoc78

Absolutely agree, I have work to do....and there were other guys I met who pulled less crap than he did and I cut them loose quickly. For whatever reason.....I am just having a hard time cutting him loose. After we sort of broke up, I intended to never contact him....and I did not. He reached out first and started texting again. Like I said, some days the texts are more flirty, others it is all focused on our dogs (they truly do LOVE each other)....

Is there a role for me as a friend? I haven't ever dealt with this and....knowing he has said he is suicidal, living alone and ruminating, I guess I feel bad just not even being there as a friend (like ignoring his texts for ex)...I know, he has to want to recover, he has to do the work and I can't fix him. I can't save him.

I was thinking I would tell him....look I agree, he can't be a boyfriend to me right now, and I have my own crap to figure out too. But we enjoy each other's company....and I am here to support his recovery however I can, assuming he is serious about what he told me multiple times. He doesn't have to be alone, I can only imagine how difficult it is for him to stop.

Others say let him hit rock bottom...not sure how much more rock bottom he can get besides dying. I don't buy him alcohol or give him money---but am I still an enabler with friendship?

SparkleKitty

I think whether or not there is a role for you as a friend is entirely up to you. If you decide to stay in his orbit, you need to have realistic expectations, strong boundaries, and a willingness not to rush in and try to save him. Most importantly you must be honest with yourself about what you really want. Is friendship (one-sided as it tends to be with someone in active addiction) really enough for you? Or will you secretly be hoping that it will blossom into something else?
I know it is ridiculously difficult to hear someone express suicidal ideation and not try to do something about it, even if it is one's own best interest to step away. Please just try to remember that suicidal folks need professional help--way more help and support than any one friend can provide.

However you choose to move forward, you must take care of yourself and your own well-being. Addiction is a monster. It can and will destroy more than just the lives of those suffering from it directly.

Ariesagain

You’ve only been separated for a year? Less?
 And you’ve only known this new guy for three months? During which it was mostly alcoholic-fueled drama?
Look, he had a life three months ago before you, right? Who was driving to rescue him in the middle of the night then?
I am going to be blunt here...if you hang on to this “friend” you will become more and more enmeshed and lose more and more of your life to his drama at a time when you really need to be focusing on yourself and what your new post-marriage life should look like. Speaking from experience, distracting yourself with new relationships when you haven’t had time to process your divorce doesn’t lead anywhere healthy.
He’s not good for you and you’re not good for him. Wish him well, block him and focus on you, yes?

Maddoc78

Before we met? He was in his classes for the dui and maybe having a drink or two on the weekends (ubering) back and forth. He had a job and reported to an office at least 3x a week...classes ended around the same time they stopped wanting people to report to the office. So he was home all day and started drinking in the afternoons as he worked home, alone.

just clarifying...

Bilr44

Based on your description it sounds like he was more than a one or two drink guy on weekends and then went off the deep end. I’m sure this is what he told you when you met. I think if you go back and re-read your original post and imagine it is from someone else, you will see all the red flags and the reason people are pointing things out here. We speak from the mindset of alcoholics and know how selfish were were. He needs to take care of himself before getting into a relationship.

dandylion

Maddoc78.....to address a few of your questions.....First...Yes, I think he probably did mean some of the romantic things that he said to you, when you first engaged with him.....as you two obviously had an attraction to each other.....this kind of romantic talk and great feelings are common in early attractrion...with the powerful bonding hormones, and all.Early in a relationship when the bonding hormones are high....relationships are usually as hot as a pepper sprout. The sticky wicket is that we can be strongly attracted to someone who is not good for us. We can feel attraction to someone without really getting to know them deeply....three months is no enough time to get to deeply know another person....not deeply enough to attach our star to their wagon. The people who get married...who were head over heels with each other for the first part of their relationship....and, on cloud 9 as they walked down the Isle...almost 1/2 of them end up divorcing......
I can tell you...that the kind of things that he said to you are as powerful as heroine to someone who is wanting to be in a relationship. "You are Special". You are the only one who can save me"...."I need you". "No one else could turn my head like you do"...."You are sooo sexy".....
Nest...there are quite a few red flags that are easy for the rose colored glasses to see....First....Any man who talks about the great and wild sex with other women....has ego problems (low self esteem), in my opinion and experience. That is a form of Locker Room talk. Guys who do locker room talk are over compensating. Red flag.Second.....I would not believe that he quit drinking and was sober for 20 years. that is a common "back story" that is given by alcoholics who have been drinking for years. It may have been that he was getting by with a certain amount of drinking....(which they call "sober)...until he started spiraling downward, before he met you and had his DUI and his license compromised. Third….the fact that a man of his age does not have any other positive friends in his circle is a red flag. This says a lot about his relationships with people...men and women, alike.....There is more under the surface that he is telling you...and, more than you can find out in three months. He probablfy knows that women don't stay long with him... even with the sex (lol)…thus...why he was always saying...you are too good for me...he, no doubt, knew what was coming, once you caught on to his alcoholism. Healthy women don't want to live with unacceptable behavior just to have a boyfriend...they will move on to a more nurturing and healthy partners....
Maddoc….I can tell that you don't know very much about alcoholism and how it works....And, I am not saying this to insult you. Actually, almost nobody does...unless they have had a reason to have to learn about it. Even professionals have to have extra specialized study and experience.....Who knew?
I suggest that you get a copy of the most recommended book on this forum..."Co-dependent No More"...It is an easy read and I think you will find a lot will resonate with you! Also....go to the stickies and read the more than 100 articles...excellent articles on alcoholsm and the effects on others. They are in the Classic Readings section in the stickies...just above the threads.I will give you the following link for your convenience.Knowledge is power.

dandylion

Maddoc…..Here is that link that I promised you.

Maddoc78

And it’s that perspective I am looking for so I appreciate all of these responses.

Yes, looking back I should have cut and run after some things that happened first week....and I cut loose plenty of others over lesser stuff. For some reason I felt drawn to this one...

and part of my issue is that I was with my ex for almost 20 years (yes married very young). Dating world is very different now and I don’t know sometimes what are flags or not. For ex, M told me one night that “you just aren’t a very sexual person, you don’t like sex” and when I pushed him as to WTH he would say this since it was him who immediately made it clear he wanted to move slow, he said well usually after a few texts, women start sending nudes...or saying sexual things. We had been together two months at that point and I hadn’t so he said that was a signal .... None of my good friends are single—-is that really what I am competing against? Good lord...

dandylion

Maddoc….I suggest that meet-up groups are safer and much less of a risk than meeting someone behind a keyboard......

AnvilheadII

ok - so first off, at this time with a global pandemic raging we should NOT be meeting up with strangers, spending time with them in close quarters, especially when we know next to nothing about them. those are just not sound personal health and safety measures.
then you add in the 12 or 15 red flags with this particular person.....just out of rehab, starts drinking again, almost loses his house, does lose his job, etc etc. you racing out in the middle of the night to pick HIS drunk @ss up?? dude is all over the place, a train wreck, scattered and just looking for a rescuer/enabler.
when people show us who they are, we must believe them. actions not words.

trailmix

Hi and welcome. Should you cut and run now? I don't say this often but yes, it would be the wisest thing to do (but that's just my opinion). - - I know, it's difficult and you ask why is he different than other guys you met who you cut loose for much less. - - Did they tell you they were suicidal? Were they basically friendless, depressed, suicidal? Probably not. So you are a compassionate person and I'm sure he has some good qualities too or you would not have encouraged him - - however and I think this is the most important thing (if you decide to stay - friend or in a relationship) - you must accept him just the way he is - - an active alcoholic. He is no longer a guy in recovery, he may or may not be in the future but you have no idea when or if he will seek recovery. - - So it's imperative that you realize this IS him. Is that a relationship or friendship you want?
As Dandylion mentioned, here is the link to the stickies she was talking about (we are having formatting problems lol)
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)Oh and btw, no, sending nudes is not "normal" for everyone, I have dated a bit, no nudes, although i met them in person, not online, that's just weird. I know it's out there, still weird.

trailmix

One other thing. Alcoholics cannot drink socially, they can't ever have one or two drinks, he is addicted to alcohol and that addiction never goes away. He can probably control his consumption for a period of time, a week a couple of months but the addiction will come calling again. This has been proven time and again and reading the Newcomers to recovery forum will confirm that for you.

Ringside

You are on a friends and family of alcoholics support board three months in to your relationship with this guy. To be honest, he sounds awful already and it will only get worse. Is that what you want out of life? There are many fish in the sea.

Maddoc78

Thank you all for your kind and insightful responses. A few of the things were not new to my ears---I am seeing a therapist and have very supportive best friends who have listened to the M drama...the drama when I decided to leave my husband, etc. And they all said----walk away, you deserve better. The one difference is that they encouraged me to keep dating and trying to meet people. My best friend is the one who pushed me to even do the online dating thing after I ended things with my rebound relationship. It is hard because all those who love me and know me keep telling me how amazing I am and how I won't have any trouble finding a decent guy. Yet.....no. I just kept matching with guys who wanted to hook up the first date or had issues, like M.

What I do think I need is time alone. I shouldn't be dating anymore than M should be dating. We each have our own **** to handle.....It's true, I was afraid of being alone. More than being alone, it is the part of maybe I missed my shot at finding a partner....

I realized the other day, I miss his middle of the night calls (to be fair, this was the last week of the relationship that he did this when he was REALLY messed up). I missed them because I thought at least SOMEONE needs me and misses me...How ****** up is that? I guess that is co-dependency...

I deleted my dating app account. Not just the app off the phone, the profile is gone. No more. I don't feel the need to block M because he is in such a dark place right now, and has cut down his texting so much, I think he will drift away....I do hope he can get help. As I told him a few times, he deserves a much better reality than what he is living day to day as an alcoholic.

Nd819

Check out the book In the Meantime: Finding Yourself and the Love You Want by Iyanla Vanzant. I read it years ago after a particularly difficult breakup and found it so helpful. It is not about finding your next love but more about loving yourself and the life you have. Highly recommend.

Maddoc78

Thanks...I admit, part of the hurt and the wanting to hang on is this feeling of...WTF. You are a mess and YOU are ending this? Also just the craving for human contact. State on lockdown, I live alone—-partly why I loves just hanging out with him to watch tv last weekend. It was someone !

Thinking back on all the times he tried to push me away, when he told me exactly who he is...and I didn’t listen....and he would say “why would you do that? Why would you put up with that am I THAT great a guy? Why do you tolerate my ********?”....now I feel ashamed and wonder what his opinion is of me. Does he see me as pathetic? I feel I was a misguided compassionate person...and I should not care what this guy thinks about me. Yet I do..even now I wonder if the decrease in communication is because he is in such a dark place or has he moved on and found someone new? Again, logically I know I should not care...aigh

ironwill

Maddoc,ÂÂÂÂ

We are in a tough time right now.
Reading your post I had the feeling of what he was saying was a way of controlling
you.Â

ÂÂÂÂ

The way I see is he is trying to
make himself look negative, not deserving of you. At this point of your
relationship you had no reason to leave him. So my guess is that you would tell
him that you are deserving, you don't need to drive for us to date, that you’re
not accessing the app. To me it sounded very controlling from him.ÂÂ

You are not pathetic and there is nothing
wrong with you. It just his was of trying to control you. It's just one of the
tools an alcoholic will use to hold on to the significant other.ÂÂ We are
caring by nature and want to help people and bring them up. The alcoholic know
this and try to use it to their advantage.

 I know you think about the time like last week
when it was just watching TV together hanging out and early on when he was
still in DUI class and not drinking as much.. The desire to have another human
to be near. I can understand that. But from the sound of everything else you
said he has a drinking problem which is only going to get worse. You shouldn’t
have to go rescue him because he drank too much. He does not know how to handle
alcohol. Sure he can limit himself for a short time, but he will just go back
to the beast. He need to seek help and he has to do it.There is nothing you can do to fix him.You are still very new in this relationship
and must decide for yourself if you want to handle this. Unless he is willing to get help and to admit
to others he has a problem, I would tell him that you can’t be in his life.ÂÂ

I hope this helps in this weird time
we are living in. Just know we are here
to help you or to just to lend a ear.
You are never alone. Be strong.

trailmix

I think what you are going through is completely normal. First of all, the quarantine is lonely sometimes. Secondly, even in this short time you can see he needs help. To most of us that means he needs a friend and needs support and normally that could be you!
That's not what you are looking for though right? You are looking for a partner, he is not that. There is no hope for a long term relationship there. The thing with alcoholics is, they will drag you down with them. Alcohol will not just rule their life, it will eventually rule yours too, is that what you want running your life? I'm sure it's not. The only way to avoid that and stay in touch is to detach, that's just a coping tool, not a way of life.Also, as Ironwill mentioned, what your ex said was not a reflection on you, it can definitely be a control mechanism or just a reflection of how badly he thinks of himself.