Would you guys mind sharing about narscisim?
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Would you guys mind sharing about narscisim?
I've learned way more about alcoholism and personality disorders since I split up from my ABF of 8 years. It's so strange how blinkered and scared of the truth I was.
I shared my story last week but aside from his alcoholism he has a perfectionism disorder and is a narscisist.
I just wondered if you guys had experienced these traits and I feel I want to understand it more- not for him, for me.
I want to understand it (or at least attempt to) because I want to move on. I want to forgive him so that I can have peace and calm in my life.
Urghhhh it's all so bloody hard!!
I shared my story last week but aside from his alcoholism he has a perfectionism disorder and is a narscisist.
I just wondered if you guys had experienced these traits and I feel I want to understand it more- not for him, for me.
I want to understand it (or at least attempt to) because I want to move on. I want to forgive him so that I can have peace and calm in my life.
Urghhhh it's all so bloody hard!!
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Location: Chicago
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I don't know whether I've had the experience of being involved with a narcissist because no one has ever told me they have been diagnosed as such.
But I do have experience with moving on from unhealthy relationships and people, and if there's anything that I've gleaned from that experience, it's that telling myself I need to understand someone before I can accept them or forigve them and move on is just a way of letting myself stay stuck in the familiar, no matter how unhealthy it is.
Truly, we are not likely to ever really understand another person, and I've found that the energy I've spent trying was far better spent working to understand myself, and to make healthier decisions for myself in the future.
You can have peace and calm in your life if you want it; putting qualifiers on contentment and happiness ("if I can just lose five pounds", "if I can just get that role in that show", "if I can just forgive so-and-so RIGHT NOW") is doing ourselves an injustice. Time, patience and self-care do wonders--if we let them.
But I do have experience with moving on from unhealthy relationships and people, and if there's anything that I've gleaned from that experience, it's that telling myself I need to understand someone before I can accept them or forigve them and move on is just a way of letting myself stay stuck in the familiar, no matter how unhealthy it is.
Truly, we are not likely to ever really understand another person, and I've found that the energy I've spent trying was far better spent working to understand myself, and to make healthier decisions for myself in the future.
You can have peace and calm in your life if you want it; putting qualifiers on contentment and happiness ("if I can just lose five pounds", "if I can just get that role in that show", "if I can just forgive so-and-so RIGHT NOW") is doing ourselves an injustice. Time, patience and self-care do wonders--if we let them.
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He may well be a narcissist or just be high up on the narcissism scale. That said, it's pretty hard to diagnose as a lay person and impossible to separate from alcoholism really.
As for forgiveness - well that will either come or it won't, I don't know that it is something that can be forced. How about trying acceptance? It happened, all of it. You don't ever need to forgive someone if you don't want to.
You mentioned in your other post:
You might try unravelling and really looking at what you did have (a relationship with a "very unwell man who has a bleak future") instead of what you "believed" you had.
That's probably a big key right there and perhaps that is what you have been doing.
He is not who he presented himself as and even the "good" parts were probably not all that good?
It's never nice to let go of the hope or the dream of what you thought you two might have. It's very hurtful in fact. You have done your research, you have a pretty good handle on why he behaved the way he did, so perhaps time to put that to rest (as you see fit).
He isn't changing, if he came back tomorrow and begged your forgiveness and you two reunited, you could have more years of the very same thing and who would want that?
It's hard and the only thing that is going to bring you peace, eventually, is time. Focus on yourself and what you want in your life. Have you become isolated attempting to work on this relationship? If so perhaps it's time to start reaching out to former friends and to family members.
You mentioned you may have glossed over some things with your family as you wanted them to accept him, now is the time to stop keeping those secrets, they are his secrets, not yours.
Do you attend Al-Anon or therapy at all?
As for forgiveness - well that will either come or it won't, I don't know that it is something that can be forced. How about trying acceptance? It happened, all of it. You don't ever need to forgive someone if you don't want to.
You mentioned in your other post:
I miss what I believed I had. But I can see that he is a very unwell man who has a bleak future.
That's probably a big key right there and perhaps that is what you have been doing.
He is not who he presented himself as and even the "good" parts were probably not all that good?
It's never nice to let go of the hope or the dream of what you thought you two might have. It's very hurtful in fact. You have done your research, you have a pretty good handle on why he behaved the way he did, so perhaps time to put that to rest (as you see fit).
He isn't changing, if he came back tomorrow and begged your forgiveness and you two reunited, you could have more years of the very same thing and who would want that?
It's hard and the only thing that is going to bring you peace, eventually, is time. Focus on yourself and what you want in your life. Have you become isolated attempting to work on this relationship? If so perhaps it's time to start reaching out to former friends and to family members.
You mentioned you may have glossed over some things with your family as you wanted them to accept him, now is the time to stop keeping those secrets, they are his secrets, not yours.
Do you attend Al-Anon or therapy at all?
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in your first post, you stated you stayed with this guy for 8 years, but found about his drinking problem six months in. and that over time the "demerits" against him kept adding up, but still you chose to stay with him.
when confronted with "evidence" or red flags, you chose to ignore them or just overlook them. that really isn't all on HIM......the behavior that might be most beneficial to examine is your own. as you said:
It's so strange how blinkered and scared of the truth I was.
^^^ this is your key. figure this out and you will be set free.
when confronted with "evidence" or red flags, you chose to ignore them or just overlook them. that really isn't all on HIM......the behavior that might be most beneficial to examine is your own. as you said:
It's so strange how blinkered and scared of the truth I was.
^^^ this is your key. figure this out and you will be set free.
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 296
I think the hardest thing for me to accept was that I didn't love myself enough to believe I deserved better. Also as the daughter of an alcoholic - who I despised- he was my normal. He was my childhood. Its not about who's treating you badly.. Its about why do you accept that bad behaviour?
Understanding what alcoholics, narcs, sociopaths is useful so you can weed them out as potential friends, partners. But what good is knowing what a red flag is... When you sit back and let them pin it to your head??
It's funny.. I'm trying to fathom why EXAH'S anabler is with him. Why would anybody in their right mind accept a man, booted out of his family home after a drunken assault against his wife, with a protection order against him, court ordered to attend anger management. She's watched him go from attending AA, stop drinking, fight for his access to see kids.. Back to quitting AA, drinking and getting drunk again.
He didn't love bomb her.. He feckin nuked her. At the end of the day, if she loved herself she would have nothing to do with EXAH. It has nothing to do with him.. He's the same aggressive alcoholic I kicked out. It's to do with what you think you deserve.
Get inside your own head, heal it love it and give it power. Let the professionals get inside the narcs head.
Understanding what alcoholics, narcs, sociopaths is useful so you can weed them out as potential friends, partners. But what good is knowing what a red flag is... When you sit back and let them pin it to your head??
It's funny.. I'm trying to fathom why EXAH'S anabler is with him. Why would anybody in their right mind accept a man, booted out of his family home after a drunken assault against his wife, with a protection order against him, court ordered to attend anger management. She's watched him go from attending AA, stop drinking, fight for his access to see kids.. Back to quitting AA, drinking and getting drunk again.
He didn't love bomb her.. He feckin nuked her. At the end of the day, if she loved herself she would have nothing to do with EXAH. It has nothing to do with him.. He's the same aggressive alcoholic I kicked out. It's to do with what you think you deserve.
Get inside your own head, heal it love it and give it power. Let the professionals get inside the narcs head.
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Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 134
I understand your need to want to dig deeper into the root of XAB behavior. I did the same thing with my AH. But beware: I have been digging for years and finally threw my shovel away.
If you think he’s a narcissist now, then was he also a narcissist 8 years ago? Did he hide it well? Was he stressed at work? Did the drinking make it worse? Did it only happen in private? When did it all go to he!! in a hand basket ???? Truth is you will never know. Heck most of us on here will never know what makes someone tick, why they do and say crazy things with no thought of anyone else but themselves. And that’s OK. It has to be or we’ll go crazy in the process of trying to fix the crazy!! I do know it was NOT you! No one deserves to be treated like second hand garbage by someone who “loves” them. My AH is probly a narcissistic loner who’s introverted w/daddy issues boardering on depression because of multiple personalities w/ hoarding tendencies and extreme jealousy issues, oh yeah and he drinks like a fish! Phew...And that’s without me overthinking it.
Or maybe he’s just a first class alcoholic a$$hole...end of story
Im so glad that you’ve gotten yourself out of the situation. I know how hard it is when you have had enough crazy and decide your only option is to leave. Move forward with focus and healing on yourself. You don’t need his baggage in your new life ☀️
If you think he’s a narcissist now, then was he also a narcissist 8 years ago? Did he hide it well? Was he stressed at work? Did the drinking make it worse? Did it only happen in private? When did it all go to he!! in a hand basket ???? Truth is you will never know. Heck most of us on here will never know what makes someone tick, why they do and say crazy things with no thought of anyone else but themselves. And that’s OK. It has to be or we’ll go crazy in the process of trying to fix the crazy!! I do know it was NOT you! No one deserves to be treated like second hand garbage by someone who “loves” them. My AH is probly a narcissistic loner who’s introverted w/daddy issues boardering on depression because of multiple personalities w/ hoarding tendencies and extreme jealousy issues, oh yeah and he drinks like a fish! Phew...And that’s without me overthinking it.
Or maybe he’s just a first class alcoholic a$$hole...end of story
Im so glad that you’ve gotten yourself out of the situation. I know how hard it is when you have had enough crazy and decide your only option is to leave. Move forward with focus and healing on yourself. You don’t need his baggage in your new life ☀️
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Originally Posted by Milano58 
Understanding what alcoholics, narcs, sociopaths is useful so you can weed them out as potential friends, partners. But what good is knowing what a red flag is... When you sit back and let them pin it to your head??
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celebration123, I've had to deal with personality disordered people in my life. Most were also alcoholics and/or substance abusers. I understand trying to figure it all out, but it is a puzzle with no real solution.
There is a website called "Out of the Fog" that is for friends and family of people with personality disorders. It has a public forum similar to this one that was a great help to me when I was still trying to understand it all. It never "fixed" anything for my relationships with these sick people, but it certainly shed a light on things so that I was able to process and forgive. The relationships were unsalvageable, but it was easier for me to understand why those people did what they did, why they acted the way they did, etc, when I understood more about their disorders. It made me more empathetic to their personal situations. That doesn't mean I was OK with being mistreated.. I wasn't, and those people are gone from my life.
Knowledge is power. I applaud you for wanting to learn more. When we know better we can do better, it's important we keep learning so that we can make wiser decisions for ourselves.
There is a website called "Out of the Fog" that is for friends and family of people with personality disorders. It has a public forum similar to this one that was a great help to me when I was still trying to understand it all. It never "fixed" anything for my relationships with these sick people, but it certainly shed a light on things so that I was able to process and forgive. The relationships were unsalvageable, but it was easier for me to understand why those people did what they did, why they acted the way they did, etc, when I understood more about their disorders. It made me more empathetic to their personal situations. That doesn't mean I was OK with being mistreated.. I wasn't, and those people are gone from my life.
Knowledge is power. I applaud you for wanting to learn more. When we know better we can do better, it's important we keep learning so that we can make wiser decisions for ourselves.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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They have no capacity to look within/self reflection. Will lack empathy and see people as sources of attention/energy for them, usually having one primary source and many auxiliary ones. They easily discard people because of the lack of empathy.
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My ex A fiance was diagnosed NPD, he casually let that slip during one of our conversations after we broke up.
IMO narcissism resources online are a double-edged sword. They're great to arm yourself with knowledge, so long as the focus is on "OK, I've identified the weak spots in me that attracted me to these characters" versus "I'm a victimized empath and look at all these terrible narcs all around me!"
Your ex may be a true, diagnostic NPD or his drinking may have numbed his empathy and ability to show up for you in a healthy way in the relationship, thus mimicking the classic traits of NPD. Best way forward is to focus on yourself and what co-dependent traits you may have, what you want in your life, and what character traits you will look for/accept in the people around you from this point on.
IMO narcissism resources online are a double-edged sword. They're great to arm yourself with knowledge, so long as the focus is on "OK, I've identified the weak spots in me that attracted me to these characters" versus "I'm a victimized empath and look at all these terrible narcs all around me!"
Your ex may be a true, diagnostic NPD or his drinking may have numbed his empathy and ability to show up for you in a healthy way in the relationship, thus mimicking the classic traits of NPD. Best way forward is to focus on yourself and what co-dependent traits you may have, what you want in your life, and what character traits you will look for/accept in the people around you from this point on.
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It did help me to learn about alcoholism- it helped to clear up the confusion and the FOG. This year I have moved on to learning about myself! Kris Godinez has really good youtube videos. After you leave, that is when you have a good opportunity to get healthy yourself. It took awhile for me to disentangle myself from wanting to figure out what was going on with XAH, and now i am learning what is going on with me!
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I believe my XAH is a narcissist.
That being said, I put a lot of focus on the WHY everything happened. Why did he act that way. Why does he still, now?
I had to let all of that go. Forgiveness is for you, not for him. It's so hard, but you can achieve it. (See my signature).
Ultimately, none of it matters. You can only control how you react. So put all of your work and focus into being the best YOU that you can be. Leave him to figure his own self out. Go no contact, it's the only way.
Sending a hug.
That being said, I put a lot of focus on the WHY everything happened. Why did he act that way. Why does he still, now?
I had to let all of that go. Forgiveness is for you, not for him. It's so hard, but you can achieve it. (See my signature).
Ultimately, none of it matters. You can only control how you react. So put all of your work and focus into being the best YOU that you can be. Leave him to figure his own self out. Go no contact, it's the only way.
Sending a hug.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 135
My therapist had me make a list. It was called my "**** you " List. (I am a very blunt person who uses, uhhh, "colorful" language but you could call it whatever you like)
The exercise was to write down all the times I should have said "f-you" to him but instead I apologized, or tried to explain myself. I was also to write down the hobbies/friends/likes I had prior to him and the things that I do now.
At first, this was kind of hard. Mostly, I was afraid he would find the list and be mad. (So I wrote that on there) In a week's time, I had FILLED about ten pages, back and front. I took the list to my therapist. She told me to carry it around and anytime I felt inclined to JADE, that I should pull it out and read the list. If the moment felt like it was going to be another addition to my growing book, I should just say F YOU (in my head of course, I am not looking for a fight) and walk away.
Maybe a list like this would offer you some consolation in your recovery. It is hard to begin....but you will feel better getting these things out where you can see them.
The exercise was to write down all the times I should have said "f-you" to him but instead I apologized, or tried to explain myself. I was also to write down the hobbies/friends/likes I had prior to him and the things that I do now.
At first, this was kind of hard. Mostly, I was afraid he would find the list and be mad. (So I wrote that on there) In a week's time, I had FILLED about ten pages, back and front. I took the list to my therapist. She told me to carry it around and anytime I felt inclined to JADE, that I should pull it out and read the list. If the moment felt like it was going to be another addition to my growing book, I should just say F YOU (in my head of course, I am not looking for a fight) and walk away.
Maybe a list like this would offer you some consolation in your recovery. It is hard to begin....but you will feel better getting these things out where you can see them.
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I have an A Sister who is also a Malignant Narcissist. I finally had to cut her out of my life, totally, once and for all. Not sure what your questions are. But if you have specific questions, please ask (or you can always privately IM me if you prefer).
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Join Date: Sep 2019
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I think every day I feel different. I dreamed about him again last night. In my dream he was living his best life, had a new girlfriend and was happy. It's exhausting every time having to reboot my brain- hes a liar, a cheat, is dishonest, has no moral compass, has no empathy, he can never really be happy.....
I think I'm just so scared about moving on/ or not moving on! I'm getting pressured by friends to date again but I'm just not ready.
It's daunting being alone but more terrifying getting so broken again!!!
Oh the self pity!!
I think I'm just so scared about moving on/ or not moving on! I'm getting pressured by friends to date again but I'm just not ready.
It's daunting being alone but more terrifying getting so broken again!!!
Oh the self pity!!
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Pressured by friends to date is a really bad reason to date (as you know!). I think some people think this is a panacea - you will become distracted by your new relationship and all will be well! It kind of doesn't work like that (as you also know!).
The fear of "moving on" or really, just living your life "normally" is understandable. You have been in a relationship with a person that has probably told you up is down, down is up and you are crazy for thinking otherwise (I'm guessing here).
He pretended to be someone he was not, but he is good at it (again, the narcissism).
Your part in it was trying to fix him, you have said. How are your boundaries?
You deserve good things in a relationship as well you know and it doesn't sound like you had much of that at all. Have you read Codependent no more? Learning more about boundaries can be really helpful.
Getting the tools that will help you moving forward will give you the confidence to do just that. Learn about boundaries and decide what yours are. Take great care of yourself, indulge a bit! Buy yourself something new, get your nails done, get a great haircut. Yes, these are all surface things but can make us feel good. Be nice to yourself.
The fear of "moving on" or really, just living your life "normally" is understandable. You have been in a relationship with a person that has probably told you up is down, down is up and you are crazy for thinking otherwise (I'm guessing here).
He pretended to be someone he was not, but he is good at it (again, the narcissism).
Your part in it was trying to fix him, you have said. How are your boundaries?
You deserve good things in a relationship as well you know and it doesn't sound like you had much of that at all. Have you read Codependent no more? Learning more about boundaries can be really helpful.
Getting the tools that will help you moving forward will give you the confidence to do just that. Learn about boundaries and decide what yours are. Take great care of yourself, indulge a bit! Buy yourself something new, get your nails done, get a great haircut. Yes, these are all surface things but can make us feel good. Be nice to yourself.
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Might have narcissistic tendencies but are they are narcissists is another question.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Thought I would share this link about gaslighting one of the most common tools used by the Narc.
https://www.today.com/video/what-is-...se-70613061984
https://www.today.com/video/what-is-...se-70613061984
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