Update on (x)ABF- entangled again
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Update on (x)ABF- entangled again
Hi everyone, here I am again reaching out for support. I was doing much better after our last big blowup. It took me about a week and a half to reach a point of feeling more anger and really fed up with all the BS that had gone on. I released ALL ideas that I had done anything wrong. I felt liberated. ...... Admittedly though, I was in contact with him- saw him once and we talked on the phone most nights over the past week. I was half way watching myself get lured back and half way watching myself truly feel liberated from him/ the dysfunction as I really was longing for and KNOWING I can have a peaceful happy life. I was starting to see him in a new way with less oh poor him and less of the regretting of why didn't I do this or why did I say that. I honestly was just pissed and done with the BS and knew I had done NOTHING wrong. It took me a while to get there. I also wrote out a list of all the abusive lies he told me and would read that regularly as it is on my fridge.
To give you backstory- Last week as I was still crying a lot and struggling to not pick up his call. I did not answer his call one night and sent him a kind text saying I need space. Then he texted the next day- can we talk sometime soon?? So I called him, I felt him struggling. I know I fall into this trap a lot. He got fired from his job that day. He said he really needed to talk to me the day before (because he had a feeling he was getting fired) and that I am so selfish for not picking up the phone and that he is always there for me and answers even if he doesn't want to. He said I am not acting like an adult. He proceeded to go on how he needed me and I wasn't there for him and he was crying and sobbing and that broke my heart.... and you can imagine I got lured back in. He also said sweet things and he wanted to work on us... I saw him once last weekend (I was finishing up a meditation workshop that was near his house and he offered to pick me up- literally saying he would be upright and sober. I ended up going to his house after, and no he was not sober.)
It still wasn't clear how he felt- he was not very loving to me when we saw each other. It felt more tactical and defensive. Then days went on and we talked here and there- still not quite sure what was going on, but I felt myself actually begin to detach. And I actually stopped crying! I think I went 3 days without crying!! Until today. I admittedly went to see him again- he had a cousin in town and he invited me to dinner. I agreed and spent the next 2 nights with him. We were pleasant with each other, but not loving and no discussion or apology (something I always feel is missing) He had quit smoking- something he was so proud of, but now I have seen the cigarettes are back (and smell in his house) and he has been literally taking the elevator all the way down his building to smoke when he used to smoke on his balcony. So I feel this deception. This morning he wakes up abruptly, grabs his close to dress in the living room, says nothing to me, and leaves at around 7:15am for 45 minutes. I found that to be so odd. I know he had to have a cigarette immediately, he later said he had anxiety, he had to call his Dad, but I could smell red bull, not sure if he went to drink too. I told him I wasn't sure if I would join him in his plans for the day as I wasn't sure what we were "doing" and that things didn't feel loving between us. This turned into an hour and half blow up with a lot of the blaming on me. Although he did hear me with one point about all of the blow ups and yelling/ blaming me that happen at the end of a night (with a lot of drinking). He said yeah that might be due to the drinking and that it is toxic. Wow! If only he could see this whole thing is toxic. But I know all I need to do is walk away and stay away. But I also get so weak and lured back in over and over. I know everyone's stories are unfortunately so similar... it is so heart breaking. I wish my story were going differently right now... thank you for listening. :\
To give you backstory- Last week as I was still crying a lot and struggling to not pick up his call. I did not answer his call one night and sent him a kind text saying I need space. Then he texted the next day- can we talk sometime soon?? So I called him, I felt him struggling. I know I fall into this trap a lot. He got fired from his job that day. He said he really needed to talk to me the day before (because he had a feeling he was getting fired) and that I am so selfish for not picking up the phone and that he is always there for me and answers even if he doesn't want to. He said I am not acting like an adult. He proceeded to go on how he needed me and I wasn't there for him and he was crying and sobbing and that broke my heart.... and you can imagine I got lured back in. He also said sweet things and he wanted to work on us... I saw him once last weekend (I was finishing up a meditation workshop that was near his house and he offered to pick me up- literally saying he would be upright and sober. I ended up going to his house after, and no he was not sober.)
It still wasn't clear how he felt- he was not very loving to me when we saw each other. It felt more tactical and defensive. Then days went on and we talked here and there- still not quite sure what was going on, but I felt myself actually begin to detach. And I actually stopped crying! I think I went 3 days without crying!! Until today. I admittedly went to see him again- he had a cousin in town and he invited me to dinner. I agreed and spent the next 2 nights with him. We were pleasant with each other, but not loving and no discussion or apology (something I always feel is missing) He had quit smoking- something he was so proud of, but now I have seen the cigarettes are back (and smell in his house) and he has been literally taking the elevator all the way down his building to smoke when he used to smoke on his balcony. So I feel this deception. This morning he wakes up abruptly, grabs his close to dress in the living room, says nothing to me, and leaves at around 7:15am for 45 minutes. I found that to be so odd. I know he had to have a cigarette immediately, he later said he had anxiety, he had to call his Dad, but I could smell red bull, not sure if he went to drink too. I told him I wasn't sure if I would join him in his plans for the day as I wasn't sure what we were "doing" and that things didn't feel loving between us. This turned into an hour and half blow up with a lot of the blaming on me. Although he did hear me with one point about all of the blow ups and yelling/ blaming me that happen at the end of a night (with a lot of drinking). He said yeah that might be due to the drinking and that it is toxic. Wow! If only he could see this whole thing is toxic. But I know all I need to do is walk away and stay away. But I also get so weak and lured back in over and over. I know everyone's stories are unfortunately so similar... it is so heart breaking. I wish my story were going differently right now... thank you for listening. :\
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as long as you continue contact - which appears to still be almost daily, you will not get to appreciate what space and distance feels like. you cannot rely on HIM to not contact you. this will be something you will have to force yourself to do at first, and work thru the lousy feelings.
you are not his only source of support. nor is he yours. this is not a health interaction for either one of you, so making a clean break will benefit both of you.
sleeping over is not demonstrating separation.
talking and texting every day is not demonstrating separation.
hanging out. dinners. that is all active interaction.
you will have to do things different.
you are not his only source of support. nor is he yours. this is not a health interaction for either one of you, so making a clean break will benefit both of you.
sleeping over is not demonstrating separation.
talking and texting every day is not demonstrating separation.
hanging out. dinners. that is all active interaction.
you will have to do things different.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Thank you Anvilhead. I know I need to cut it clean, but I get so weak. I know space and time will help me have more strength to move on....
This is where I get tangled up: He said he is really trying to be better for me (I wish he could talk to me about this)- I saw him take his Naltrexone yesterday and he didn't drink as much as some times I witness. But I know it does not matter how much or little he drinks- he is an addict and unless he chooses recovery, it is still all active using. I just fall into the roll of wanting to acknowledge and reward his efforts- which I know is so convoluted.
He even has said when he quit smoking that I didn't praise him enough!! I either talk about the smoking too much or not enough!!
This is where I get tangled up: He said he is really trying to be better for me (I wish he could talk to me about this)- I saw him take his Naltrexone yesterday and he didn't drink as much as some times I witness. But I know it does not matter how much or little he drinks- he is an addict and unless he chooses recovery, it is still all active using. I just fall into the roll of wanting to acknowledge and reward his efforts- which I know is so convoluted.
He even has said when he quit smoking that I didn't praise him enough!! I either talk about the smoking too much or not enough!!
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I was wondering how you were...
Let me try something else...I think you get sucked in in part because you assume he experiences emotions the identical way you do. He’s sad the way you experience being sad, he’s lonely the way you are, etc.
What if that’s not true?
I believe that some people only experience a very limited range of emotions based only on what is good for them and what isn’t. They have very little empathy or compassion...in fact, they’re empathy vampires. They latch onto empaths and exploit them.
That’s this guy. He’s sad because he got fired. He’s mad because you’re not catering to him and his “mold.” It’s all him...his drama, his needs, his expectations.
Do you ever experience any authentic feeling of being heard, respected, or appreciated?
Some of your best qualities...your empathy and your kindness...are being weaponized against you.
You can keep doing this, of course. But he will respect you less and abuse you more every time you let him manipulate you. He desperately needs to manipulate you; he also despises you for letting him do that.
It will not get better. Whether you want to keep doing this is really your choice, yes?
Wishing you clarity and strength.
Let me try something else...I think you get sucked in in part because you assume he experiences emotions the identical way you do. He’s sad the way you experience being sad, he’s lonely the way you are, etc.
What if that’s not true?
I believe that some people only experience a very limited range of emotions based only on what is good for them and what isn’t. They have very little empathy or compassion...in fact, they’re empathy vampires. They latch onto empaths and exploit them.
That’s this guy. He’s sad because he got fired. He’s mad because you’re not catering to him and his “mold.” It’s all him...his drama, his needs, his expectations.
Do you ever experience any authentic feeling of being heard, respected, or appreciated?
Some of your best qualities...your empathy and your kindness...are being weaponized against you.
You can keep doing this, of course. But he will respect you less and abuse you more every time you let him manipulate you. He desperately needs to manipulate you; he also despises you for letting him do that.
It will not get better. Whether you want to keep doing this is really your choice, yes?
Wishing you clarity and strength.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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One more thing...you seem very invested in the belief that his alcoholism is the problem.
What if it’s just a symptom?
From everything you’ve posted, this guy has big psychological problems. The alcoholism is just the cherry on top of one really bad sundae.
What if it’s just a symptom?
From everything you’ve posted, this guy has big psychological problems. The alcoholism is just the cherry on top of one really bad sundae.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Thank you Ariesagain. Your words are really so helpful.
Yes, you are correct I never feel heard, respected or appreciated. This is precisely what gives me the fuel to be done with it. I get none of that from him! In fact I feel like if I talk about my work, it is too clinical for him because I feel he has low self esteem and clearly doesn't like an intelligent woman to speak up around him. I actually get snippy remarks as if he is a teenage boy talking back to his mother.
You are right, the longer it goes on, the more he resents me.. I see that clearly now.
Can you speak more to what you said- he despises me for letting him manipulate me? Do you mean that he hates me for forcing him to be manipulative or that he is projecting his self hate on to me, his target?
Thank you
Yes, you are correct I never feel heard, respected or appreciated. This is precisely what gives me the fuel to be done with it. I get none of that from him! In fact I feel like if I talk about my work, it is too clinical for him because I feel he has low self esteem and clearly doesn't like an intelligent woman to speak up around him. I actually get snippy remarks as if he is a teenage boy talking back to his mother.
You are right, the longer it goes on, the more he resents me.. I see that clearly now.
Can you speak more to what you said- he despises me for letting him manipulate me? Do you mean that he hates me for forcing him to be manipulative or that he is projecting his self hate on to me, his target?
Thank you
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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In my experience, particularly one XAB, who also had big mother issues, BTW, because of their narcissism, these guys feel compelled to manipulate the women in their lives so that they reflect well on them...that “mold” thing, yes? So the more the girlfriend’s self-confidence is undermined, the more malleable she becomes...but at the same time, the more contempt he has for her for not standing up for herself.
Joni Mitchell had a great lyric:
“You don’t like weak women you get bored so quick
And you don’t like strong women because they’re hip to your tricks.”
You’re not forcing him to do anything, remember? He’s choosing to be manipulative. Above all, his ego won’t allow you to end the relationship. My guess is if you were to totally commit to him and become the slave he thinks he wants, he’d dump you without a second thought and be on to the next.
It’s a pathology, IMO. Again, I don’t know this guy in real life, so keep that in mind, but wow does it sound familiar.
You can’t change him. The question becomes how much you want to sacrifice to stay in this relationship.
Joni Mitchell had a great lyric:
“You don’t like weak women you get bored so quick
And you don’t like strong women because they’re hip to your tricks.”
You’re not forcing him to do anything, remember? He’s choosing to be manipulative. Above all, his ego won’t allow you to end the relationship. My guess is if you were to totally commit to him and become the slave he thinks he wants, he’d dump you without a second thought and be on to the next.
It’s a pathology, IMO. Again, I don’t know this guy in real life, so keep that in mind, but wow does it sound familiar.
You can’t change him. The question becomes how much you want to sacrifice to stay in this relationship.
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bluelight…..building on what the other posters have just said....I suggest that, if you have time...watch the youtube video...titled "Trauma Bonding" by Stephanie Lyn......I think that a lot...lol...of it will resonate with you, right now.
I would love to hear what you think of the video after you have watched it....if you are of a mind to do that.....
I would love to hear what you think of the video after you have watched it....if you are of a mind to do that.....
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I saw him take his Naltrexone yesterday and he didn't drink as much as some times I witness.
the whole point of naltrexone is to support NOT drinking at all. he might as well have swallowed an aspirin and then hit himself in the head with a hammer.
he's still drinking. nuf said. as others have said drinking is but a symptom of deeper underlying issues. this guy is like a toddler cut loose in the toy store. grubby little fingers grabbing at everything, anything - mine mine mine - me me me - want want want.
the whole point of naltrexone is to support NOT drinking at all. he might as well have swallowed an aspirin and then hit himself in the head with a hammer.
he's still drinking. nuf said. as others have said drinking is but a symptom of deeper underlying issues. this guy is like a toddler cut loose in the toy store. grubby little fingers grabbing at everything, anything - mine mine mine - me me me - want want want.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Thank you Dandelion 
Her video is wonderful. She is so supportive and clear. Just what I needed to hear.
Yes, I logically know what I need to do, but I have been trapped in the cycle. I do realize in the beginning I saw a mask... and that the troubled/ addicted BF is really who he is, and that will not ever work in a healthy relationship.
But I feel as each day goes by, I am getting closer to choosing my happiness.
Her video is wonderful. She is so supportive and clear. Just what I needed to hear. Yes, I logically know what I need to do, but I have been trapped in the cycle. I do realize in the beginning I saw a mask... and that the troubled/ addicted BF is really who he is, and that will not ever work in a healthy relationship.
But I feel as each day goes by, I am getting closer to choosing my happiness.
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Join Date: Aug 2019
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
I saw him take his Naltrexone yesterday and he didn't drink as much as some times I witness.
the whole point of naltrexone is to support NOT drinking at all. he might as well have swallowed an aspirin and then hit himself in the head with a hammer.
he's still drinking. nuf said. as others have said drinking is but a symptom of deeper underlying issues. this guy is like a toddler cut loose in the toy store. grubby little fingers grabbing at everything, anything - mine mine mine - me me me - want want want.
the whole point of naltrexone is to support NOT drinking at all. he might as well have swallowed an aspirin and then hit himself in the head with a hammer.
he's still drinking. nuf said. as others have said drinking is but a symptom of deeper underlying issues. this guy is like a toddler cut loose in the toy store. grubby little fingers grabbing at everything, anything - mine mine mine - me me me - want want want.
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Hi, bluelight.
Welcome.
Your man is deep into addiction. Full stop.
This pattern of co-behaviors you and he have will continue and likely escalate unless he embraces recovery or you take yourself out of the relationship.
Time and distance will bring clarity, I promise.
It’s a hard, hard thing to do, as many on this site can attest, but I have never heard anyone say that they regretted leaving the addict.
Many will say that they wish they had done it sooner.
Take care of yourself, and call bs on his manipulative ways.
Everything that comes out of his mouth, per your posts, is either a lie, an empty promise, or a statement to shame you and cause you to feel guilt.
You didn’t cause it, you can’t control, and you sure can’t cure it.
Good luck, good thoughts.
Welcome.
Your man is deep into addiction. Full stop.
This pattern of co-behaviors you and he have will continue and likely escalate unless he embraces recovery or you take yourself out of the relationship.
Time and distance will bring clarity, I promise.
It’s a hard, hard thing to do, as many on this site can attest, but I have never heard anyone say that they regretted leaving the addict.
Many will say that they wish they had done it sooner.
Take care of yourself, and call bs on his manipulative ways.
Everything that comes out of his mouth, per your posts, is either a lie, an empty promise, or a statement to shame you and cause you to feel guilt.
You didn’t cause it, you can’t control, and you sure can’t cure it.
Good luck, good thoughts.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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Can you imagine a world in which this boyfriend didn't exist? I mean that as a real question. If he had never been born, if his parents had never met ... how might your life be different than it is today? Not "if he stopped drinking" or "if he got help for his problems", I mean if he literally did not exist on this planet and therefore you never knew him or met him.
If you can picture such a world - and if it looks to you like your life would be better in such a world - the only way to get there is to act as though he did not exist - which means no daily texting him, no dinners with him and his cousin, no sleepovers, no monitoring his Naltrexone.
It will be very difficult to act-as-if he didn't exist, because it sounds like you're giving him so much of your psychic energy, but if you decide you want to be free of him, I think this may be the only way.
If you can picture such a world - and if it looks to you like your life would be better in such a world - the only way to get there is to act as though he did not exist - which means no daily texting him, no dinners with him and his cousin, no sleepovers, no monitoring his Naltrexone.
It will be very difficult to act-as-if he didn't exist, because it sounds like you're giving him so much of your psychic energy, but if you decide you want to be free of him, I think this may be the only way.
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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This might be an extreme example, but did you ever watch videos of some infamous situations, like the Manson family for example? Where you see them shortly after they were caught, and they were still under the “spell”, and then again years later, after they were separated from him and got some counseling, and they were basically like, what the hell was I thinking?
I think when you are in a bad relationship (with whoever- it doesn’t have to be romantic in nature), it’s really not all that different. It’s really, really hard to see the situation objectively if you are in constant contact with a person (or even doing things like stalking social media, where you keep letting the person occupy space in your head). Even if you know things logically, the constant contact really does hinder being able to be truly objective, and to see things for what they are, you know?
I think when you are in a bad relationship (with whoever- it doesn’t have to be romantic in nature), it’s really not all that different. It’s really, really hard to see the situation objectively if you are in constant contact with a person (or even doing things like stalking social media, where you keep letting the person occupy space in your head). Even if you know things logically, the constant contact really does hinder being able to be truly objective, and to see things for what they are, you know?
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Thank you all for your support!
I am feeling stronger this time around. And I do know I need to eject him from my life and that is the only way through the grieving and moving on. I know it has been very hard for me to let go of this man I love(d). I have been caught in the cycle and believed he wanted to be better. But I know he is 100% toxic and sick and this kind of relationship has no place in my life.
I am finding I am feeling lighter and happier and not even thinking will he text or call? So this is definitely progress. I trust I will move on, and I am noticing that as more time passes I remember more ridiculous comments, behavior and abusive BS.
I am feeling stronger this time around. And I do know I need to eject him from my life and that is the only way through the grieving and moving on. I know it has been very hard for me to let go of this man I love(d). I have been caught in the cycle and believed he wanted to be better. But I know he is 100% toxic and sick and this kind of relationship has no place in my life.
I am finding I am feeling lighter and happier and not even thinking will he text or call? So this is definitely progress. I trust I will move on, and I am noticing that as more time passes I remember more ridiculous comments, behavior and abusive BS.
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If you start to waver, post here for support first, yes? Someone’s almost always around.
It will get easier but the first few days and weeks are the toughest, so don’t hesitate to ask for a pep talk!
It will get easier but the first few days and weeks are the toughest, so don’t hesitate to ask for a pep talk!
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Hi Blue. It is great to hear from you. I love that you put a list on your refrigerator.
It is so easy to go back to them and/or pick up a call or return a text. I went back so many times. It took me awhile to figure out what I needed to do to get away from him. It sure wasn't easy. Please keep developing tools and gathering support for yourself.
It is wonderful that you have good work and don't live with him.
Keep letting us know how you get on.
It is so easy to go back to them and/or pick up a call or return a text. I went back so many times. It took me awhile to figure out what I needed to do to get away from him. It sure wasn't easy. Please keep developing tools and gathering support for yourself.
It is wonderful that you have good work and don't live with him.
Keep letting us know how you get on.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Hi everyone,
I thought I would share an update with you all:
He called yesterday and I didn't pick up and felt the anxiety come over me. I decided to call him back today rather than be official over a text. But I waited until I felt strong and clear about what I would say.
So, I called and said simply I wont be in a relationship with active alcoholism. There was of course a range of responses from angry and pointing it back at me that I don't want to look at my short comings and that all i focus on is the drinking- to by the end of the conversation he said I am right, he's screwed it up and has given me battered wife syndrome (emotional abuse only). So what's so heart wrenching is that he can be both in major denial and self reflective, and I see his struggle.
I didn't get tangled up in the conversation and was able to say "I'm sorry you think that... I know deep in my core that I am a not selfish person... etc" -- I was strong. I have seen how I have become stronger in myself and not react to his non sense anymore. Luckily he is not 100% deaf to my words and will often come around and agree that he is mean and out of line and it's not about me.
Anyways, I am feeling a mix of a weight off my chest now that I have walked away from the demons. I have chosen to no longer have this darkness in my life and that feels really good. I am also so heart broken knowing he is suffering that the love of his life has left him and that he doesn't have the tools to make a productive choice for himself. But I know leaving him is the best thing I can do for him (and of course for me!) because no one else in his life seems to reflect back the reality he lives in... or maybe some do. I don't know...
Thank you for listening.
I thought I would share an update with you all:
He called yesterday and I didn't pick up and felt the anxiety come over me. I decided to call him back today rather than be official over a text. But I waited until I felt strong and clear about what I would say.
So, I called and said simply I wont be in a relationship with active alcoholism. There was of course a range of responses from angry and pointing it back at me that I don't want to look at my short comings and that all i focus on is the drinking- to by the end of the conversation he said I am right, he's screwed it up and has given me battered wife syndrome (emotional abuse only). So what's so heart wrenching is that he can be both in major denial and self reflective, and I see his struggle.
I didn't get tangled up in the conversation and was able to say "I'm sorry you think that... I know deep in my core that I am a not selfish person... etc" -- I was strong. I have seen how I have become stronger in myself and not react to his non sense anymore. Luckily he is not 100% deaf to my words and will often come around and agree that he is mean and out of line and it's not about me.
Anyways, I am feeling a mix of a weight off my chest now that I have walked away from the demons. I have chosen to no longer have this darkness in my life and that feels really good. I am also so heart broken knowing he is suffering that the love of his life has left him and that he doesn't have the tools to make a productive choice for himself. But I know leaving him is the best thing I can do for him (and of course for me!) because no one else in his life seems to reflect back the reality he lives in... or maybe some do. I don't know...
Thank you for listening.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
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Oh honey! You are showing great self esteem. Hug yourself physically because you just took care of yourself. I’m with you. Signed the divorce papers today. Stand tough, you might just be saving his life. I love your line “ reflecting his reality back to him”. So true. Hard but true
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