discovery12

Hello,

I am the spouse of a oxycodone addict....to make this short, he went to treatment 5 years ago and has never behaved "sober". Someone once told me "addiction looks like addiction, sobriety looks like sobriety". He has never looked Sober. Our marriage never fully recovered. I distanced myself emotionally to protect myself on some level. He could never understand nor did he want to understand when I would tell him you're still behaving in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I was tired of chasing the proof. I know in my heart it may have subsided for a while, but there is so much stuff that others would likely dope slap me.

Anyway, I am now convinced he is abusing gabapentin. He is prescribed that for nerve pain. He is on suboxone (or he says he is), has a license to purchase marijuana and smokes this pen daily....for "pain" some quack dr signed off on something for him. He is aggressive, violent, saying very scary things when angry and me and threatening. A side of him I have never seen. he is out of my house now but I need some information on this drug. I am a nurse, but very little information on the abuse signs. I am going to call his pcp and discuss my concerns with him today, but does anyone on here have ANY experience with this drug and its abuse. I drug tested him last Thursday and the only thing positive was the THC, no oxy, nothing else. This drug being a seizure medication...abuse is scaring me and I don't know much about this only now hearing it's being abused.

hopeful4

I am going to say this very gently. Does it matter? If he does not use this, it will just be something else. Until he WANTS recovery, and he wants it badly enough to work for it every single day for the rest of his life, he won't be sober. Many, many addicts just replace one drug with another. It's due to their addictive personality.

I guess what I am trying to say is you don't have to condone your feelings with "proof" of anything. If his behavior is unacceptable, you have to decide how you will react to that and what you want in your own future.

I say this gently because I know it's painful.

discovery12

It doesn't matter. He is out of the house and I am not letting him back. I have 3 children and I just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with this drug and the signs of abuse. Does it sound familiar? Educating myself is what I am trying to do, nothing else.

MindfulMan

The upper dosage limit for gabapentin is huge, and it's not really psychoactive. How do you define "abuse."

From my experience with this medication, I doubt it's the reason for his behavioral issues.

discovery12

He is acting very strange. My prior history with his abuse he was never violent or threatening. Saying crazy things, he verbally assaulted my 73 year old mother to the point of her being very frightened of him. I drug tested him and everything came back negative...so my question is could the gabapentin be making him act like this. Again, he is out of the house, but at the end of the day if there was something I could say or do and not sit back and watch him kill himself, I am going to do it as long as it feels like that is the right thing to do for me at the time. I am not living in a bubble, something is going on, but when you randomly drug test and all comes back ok, what is going on?

OpheliaKatz

This is probably not what you want to hear. There are drugs out there that do not show up on drug tests. There are synthetic drugs that are easily obtainable and their formulas are ever-changing to stay one step ahead of the law and ahead of the drug tests. These drugs are often used in jails, in the military for recreational use, and by the homeless simply because they are cheap and they don't show up on tests. However... you have to be a total idiot to use them. I'm sorry to be so harsh, but they really do cause aggression and sometimes death. They go by various names: "Spice", "Bath Salts"... "Incense"... etc. Used in very low doses, the drugs keep the addict addicted to something, but they can say they are "sober" because they are using things off the radar. Now... it may be that all he is using is marijuana. Who knows? There is no way for you to know, really. If his behavior is unacceptable, it may be because that is just who he is... or who he has become over time. It may be that his behavior is totally independent of any drug use. It is not possible to fully know.

I know what it feels like to insist that I wasn't going to sit back and watch someone kill themselves. At the end of the day, I had to choose between my own safety and saving someone who didn't want to be saved. It's a very difficult thing to accept. I had to let got and let God deal with the addict's issues. It's very difficult to accept, and it sounds callous when someone tells you that this is your option -- actually, you have two options: keep trying to figure him out/help him and never really know the truth because he will keep obscuring the facts (he will keep making it hard for you to help him), or let him figure himself out.

It's hard to know if it's the drugs that have made him like this... or if he's always had this degree of abusive behavior in his playbook. Sometimes abusive people can spend years being manipulative and when their manipulation no longer works, they switch to their end-game and the abuse becomes more obvious. When the victim realizes that they are being abused, it then comes as a total shock... because all this time you have been walking on eggshells and wading through a morass of lies... and then you eventually become aware of what you're walking on and wading through, so the abuser get frustrated and becomes more overtly abusive.

Also, it's possible that the years of substance abuse have hurt his brain... and so now he acts like this because of brain damage -- self-inflicted brain damage.

None of this is in your control. I'm sorry.

teatreeoil007

To my knowledge Gabapentin does NOT give a "high", therefore is considered not likely to be abused. So, it's not a controlled substance that the DEA is interested in. It's also not considered psychoactive and shouldn't alter moods.

However, you say he smokes pot daily, which DOES give a high....so how likely is it that he would be acting clean/sober? There is a mentality out there that pot doesn't matter anymore in the grand scheme of drug abuse. But the fact is it is a powerful substance. And, some of the pot being grown these days, depending upon where....is way more powerful than the pot our mom and pop hippies grew in the '70's.

But the bottom line is, he's going to do what he's going to do and I don't know if there is any chance to reconcile....in the mean time, I'd put your "energies" toward yourself and your kids and let go of him....knowing that you could try to "regulate" his addiction, but in the end true recovery does look like true recovery and you will likely fortify your boundaries based on his behavior more than anything else. So you can certainly TRY to control his addiction....I know you are certainly concerned....but in the end....all your attempts to help or control may be for naught and then where would you be?

atalose

His behavior doesn’t sound like it’s from abusing Gabapentin but probably from abusing something else, what – who knows.

You said you once were told that Addiction looks like addiction and sobriety looks like sobriety.

I think you mean, addiction looks like addiction and recovery looks like recovery. Sobriety doesn’t always = recovery. Sobriety is abstaining from something while recovery is working a program, making the needed changes in one’s life in order to remain abstinent with new healthier coping skills.

Sorry for what has brought you here, it’s pretty scary seeing them turn into someone you now fear.

discovery12

Gabapentin is being abused. It does give a high and there is question if this is the "next oxy"....it is in fact now locked on count in some skilled nursing facilities where you may go to rehab post surgery. It is now regulated that the gabapentin be counted just like a controlled substance which leads me to believe there is definitely something people are getting from it.

Thank you all for your input, I do go to meetings when I feel I need to and Id like to think my head is not in the sand, but we are rounding to the finish line of where this lady steps off the track. I know I can't change him and I know there is frankly nothing I can do so I need to move on and take care of me. Something that I have not been doing. I used to say everything will happen the way its supposed to in regards to us likely divorcing and I just had not been there yet. Well, with his recent behavior I am not sure I can forgive it and forget it.

teatreeoil007

I seriously doubt Gabapentin will become the next Oxy, but try not to get too hung up on these matters. I k(now that Lyrica (Pregabilin) is a C-5 narcotic according to the DEA. Oxycontin is a class/schedule 2...., but pot outranks them both as a schedule I (the strongest). Well, you likely already know this because you are a nurse.

More serious is his behavior and treatment of you and the kids. Even if he WERE clean, which you know for sure he's not because he smokes pot daily....he has been abusive and violent and you feel dangerous. The violence/abuse could definitely be present with or withOUT any substance abuse. People can abstain from using. People can abstain from drinking. That doesn't guarantee they will make changes to other behaviors.

You don't need to drug test him to know what his behaviors are and how they make you feel. So....you are totally right on that taking care of yourself and your kids is what you need to focus on. Let him go. You are already estranged and I don't know if there is a legal seperation or not; most likely headed for divorce. The more you focus on yourself the better and likely the only way for you to heal from all this.

Like I said before....people are sort of overlooking using pot as "no big deal" these days. Well, that is how a lot of people view drinking. But we know alcohol is a substance, a drug just as much as many other substances. Just so happens it's legal for those of age and the DEA doesn't have a whole lot of interest in it. Yet: it is HIGHLY destructive when abused and very unhealthy for the body and mind. So, pick your poison. If a person wants to abuse a substance bad enough, they will. Protect yourself and your kids at all costs.

Leana

I've been on Gabapentin on an off for years for trigeminal neuralgia- I can't see any reason why anyone would abuse it. It doesn't change mood or behavior and is not a pain med. I just can't see what abusing it would do for you? I go on an off of it because it causes me to have such a huge appetite, I gain weight like crazy. Most people I know with my disease can't wait to get off it.

MindfulMan

I have taken gabapentin on and off for years, including in pretty high doses when I was in rehab. Never did I feel any kind of psychoactive effects nor did I ever have problems with stopping when it was time, even without a taper. Never felt dependent on it either.

Bute

I take 1800mgs of gabapentin daily, and have never experienced any sort of "high".
From what I've read, if it is abused with other forms of medication, it can have that effect.

https://drugabuse.com/library/gabapentin-abuse/#can-you-get-high-off-gabapentin-

This may be helpful

Much Love
Bute x

OpheliaKatz

I agree with teatree that pot is also an abused substance. I hope that my comment didn't sound like I thought it was "safe" because I had said, "all he's using is pot." It can cause temporary and/or long term psychosis. It's also not like it was a generation ago. Also, there is so-called synthetic "pot" out there these days that act more like amphetamines than natural pot.

Whatever he is or is not using, I am concerned about you and the kids. I hope you are able to make your safety and the kids' safety a priority.

teatreeoil007

Thanks OKatz....I wasn't referring to you with my comments about pot. Perhaps my main point was that between something like pot and something like Gabapentin, there's really no contest as to which one gives a high....and more likely to alter moods, etc. Gabapentin has been around for a long time. The DEA doesn't take long to catch on when drugs are being abused and therefore start a crackdown/regulations. Also, Gabapentin is not sold on the streets like pot, Oxy's, hydro's,meth. heroin, etc. Sadly, the drug business on the streets is a business and people do abuse prescriptions drugs...or they sell them and make money....But with regards to abuse of prescription drugs: The DEA is not stupid; not by a long shot. It's becoming more difficult for physicians to "over prescribe" That can be a double edged sword. There ARE people with serious legit pain who don't want their pain meds cut back or cut off. Can't say that I blame them.

discovery12

Also, Gabapentin is not sold on the streets like pot


But, it is. The Learning to Cope meeting I attend hands out a booklet to everyone to educate everyone on what drugs are being abused and what the street names are. Gabapentin is now known as "Johnnies" on the street. So there is something attractive about this...maybe just the real early stages, but his prescription is gone long before it is supposed to be....I agree totally that Pot has become acceptable to some degree.
thank you again for all your responses.

teatreeoil007

I didn't know Gaba. was sold on the streets. Thx for that info.

Someone I work with worked in a detox center in her last job. She told me that yes indeed Gabapentin has started being abused; not neccessarily for its "high" but to relieve them of withdrawal symptoms until they can get the next high from another drug or their drug of choice. They are also using Gabapentin to assist with detox.

You've described some of your husband's behaviors as being uncharacteristically scary and violent. It's possible he is displaying this type of behavior when he is unable to get his drug of choice or enough of it. Who knows what else he's been doing/using. Sometimes addicts indeed are the most "scary" when they are the most desperately wanting their DOC.

NotAPeach

The way I knew that my recovering addict/alcoholic husband was abusing gabapentin (and methocarbamol, a muscle relaxer) is that he would run out of them before the next shipment of them arrived via the mail pharmacy. Then he would use the USPS mail tracker to determine what day the meds would be there. One day the meds were delivered by the postman. I work from home, just a few feet from the front porch, where the mailbox and thus mail delivery is. So I heard the postman deliver the meds and use the little tracker machine that makes the beeps. Made a mental note to grab the mail the next time I got up from my desk. I got them and set them on the front table in the front room of our home.

Then I heard the squeaky brakes of our car returning home and I KNEW. I just knew. My husband got out of the car and commenced to having a conversation with the worker men working on the house across the street. I DOVE for the package with the meds in it and hid it in my desk drawer. My husband came in, greeted me, and made a great show of the notion that he had come home for lunch. There was pacing and there were many approaches while I was working but he somehow sensed that I had figured it out. I just waited. He asked if the mail had been delivered with his medicine and I said it had. Then he went away for a bit. Apparently he decided the best approach would be to do a "oh by the way" on his way back out the door. I did a quick google search for "abusing Neurontin" and had one of the articles up on my computer screen. So he prepared to leave, deployed the "oh by the way," and asked for his meds.

That is when I told him I had been watching him do the drug seeking dance for the last 45 minutes and that it was clear to me that he was abusing his prescription meds. He was all "whaaaa?" and I beckoned him over and showed him the article I had googled.

He sort of just went off, did not ask again for the meds. Then he texted me and told me I was right and I said that I would like to get rid of the meds and he said "please do."

It was not until some time after that, which was probably 3 or 4 months after he got back from a two-month rehab 3000 miles away, that I felt he started to get sober for real.

What followed were several months of nearly daily meetings, a sponsor, and more serious work toward his recovery.

His "one year" sobriety date is coming up in two months, but to me, the real date should be the day he came home for his meds and then acknowledged later that he had been abusing them.

But that is not really my domain and is up to him. I would certainly not say that to him; we have discussed and explored the issue in other ways. He has since expressed in much greater detail that he was abusing those meds (I think there was a med for sleeping, too--trazodone, maybe) in a bid to, as he says, "alter myself."

Anyway, my experience, as well as a review of the literature, tells me that the answer to your question is "yes, it is possible to abuse gabapentin."

atalose

Thank you discovery12 for bringing Gabapentin Abuse to our attention, that’s what I love about SR I learn something new every day. I’ve known people who have been prescribed this medication for seizure disorders and neuropathy. Had no idea of the growing trend in its abuse. I talked with several people who said it’s being used along with opioids, muscle relaxers and other anxiety drugs and pot to enhance a potential euphoria. And yes in fact it can cause mood changes that include rage along with behaviors that can be suicidal, reckless, aggressive, violent. And not surprising the cost is going up because of the demand with this drug. It’s not yet a controlled substance but they are working towards making it one. Thank you again for bringing this to light.

discovery12

Thank you for that information. This is so hard. So hard. I feel like I have always been chasing the proof. I am now doing daily self talk and telling myself...you don't need proof. But, your post with information gave me the proof that I am not crazy and I am always right. Always spot on. He is out of the house and sending me text messages basically telling me that I have been distant for so long and he behaves the way he does because he is angry. #1 I am distant because he lies and has never earned by trust back by behaving like someone in recovery. I basically told him that I have no plans on letting him back in here and he needs to admit he has a problem and get help. Fight for your what you say is most important to you. The sad but is, he never responds to those statements...he is not even denying it which he would do in the past....like saying "im not on drugs, I have not been on drugs". So, I think for me that is a sign that he is in a place where he wont deny but he is also in a place he likes and we are not his priority. I just need to stick to my guns and pray for a good outcome. I feel like I need to alert his parents, have a conversation with my kids (they are early 20's) and still I feel I need to do something to help him before he spirals....but there have been so many times I run to his family looking for help only to get "get a divorce"...it's so hard to hear because I don't want a divorce. I did not get married and have kids to get divorced. That is painful to hear....I want to scream "cant you see he is sick" HELP HIM. So, my next question would be, what kind of conversations do you have with your kids. My kids know his history and they love their dad...he is a good dad my son told me, just a ****** husband. They don't want to talk about it, but I feel like I need to. Any advice on this one??