I can't believe you said that!!!!!
The late great Terry Pratchett mentions another possible state:
In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
OK, here's a controversial question:
Is it true to say that reasonable people will all agree on any issue?
My view is that the more reasonable you are the more you will disagree with everyone else because we all come from a different starting point.
Is it true to say that reasonable people will all agree on any issue?
My view is that the more reasonable you are the more you will disagree with everyone else because we all come from a different starting point.
No Aleric, it's my fault. I kinda thew the grenade into the forum then ran away. I had things to do.
Your question is sneaky. I would say that most people consider themselves "reasonable", therefore if I disagree with your statement;
Is it true to say that reasonable people will all agree on any issue?, You will counter that I'm being unreasonable.
Your question is sneaky. I would say that most people consider themselves "reasonable", therefore if I disagree with your statement;
Is it true to say that reasonable people will all agree on any issue?, You will counter that I'm being unreasonable.
If it appeared to be sneaky it's probably because of the way I phrased it! Reading it back it does sound like a kind of paradox but what I mean to say was when we look at something we're all generally faced with the same facts but usually come to very different conclusions. So why is that? If we based our conclusions on reason alone then we should all come to the same view but clearly we hardly ever do.
I think the question is controversial because it does suggest that there is limit to what reason or rationality can tell us about something. For example with addiction, can we ever find our way out using pure reason alone or do we at some point just have to accept that we really don't know what the best thing to do is but we nevertheless have to decide on a recovery method to adopt and we do this largely on an intuitive basis, on what feels most right for us?
I think the question is controversial because it does suggest that there is limit to what reason or rationality can tell us about something. For example with addiction, can we ever find our way out using pure reason alone or do we at some point just have to accept that we really don't know what the best thing to do is but we nevertheless have to decide on a recovery method to adopt and we do this largely on an intuitive basis, on what feels most right for us?
& is the nature of the issue able to be determined objectively - is the sky blue? is that cat bloody furious? or is it subjective - is <your choice of political ideology> the best way to run a country? is <your choice of recovery method> the best method of sobriety?
I mean reasonable in your second sense of being rational, and not necessarily moderate.
I also think that the effectiveness of a recovery method can't be determined objectively. I was just wondering if this was true or whether in fact it can be measured in some way.
I also think that the effectiveness of a recovery method can't be determined objectively. I was just wondering if this was true or whether in fact it can be measured in some way.
I agree that you can objectively measure whether an individual is recovered or not: they are either drinking or they're not.
I was wondering though whether you can objectively compare and contrast different recovery models or is it just a matter of personal preference.
I was wondering though whether you can objectively compare and contrast different recovery models or is it just a matter of personal preference.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
What do you mean by effectiveness?
That query is ,btw, rhetorical, effectiveness is AV as it implies an alternative to quitting, the possiblity of more drinks.
That's why my question was about whether it is possible in principle to compare the effectiveness of different recovery methods. It was not asking for any actual comparisons to be made,
By effectiveness I mean proven results and I agree , I don't think that makes much sense in this context.
By effectiveness I mean proven results and I agree , I don't think that makes much sense in this context.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
The idea that one can not 'just' make a commitment to permanent , unconditional abstinence is AV.
Any method or system or whatever you want to call it that is based on the idea that that requires anything other than making that decision is a method to avoid making the commitment or at best paying lip service to the idea of a commitment, but at the same time negating it is a commitment by setting conditions on adherence.
Any method or system or whatever you want to call it that is based on the idea that that requires anything other than making that decision is a method to avoid making the commitment or at best paying lip service to the idea of a commitment, but at the same time negating it is a commitment by setting conditions on adherence.
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