Ginalee

Hi, I'm the angry soul that responds sometimes to a thread or two. But i have issues I'm not sure I'm handling well. See, closure seems to be essential for me to fully wrap my head around what has happened.

I know i did everything i could to keep my marriage intact and almost lost my mind in the process. You can't love them enough put up with enough hurt enough and according to the A in my life, it's still my fault cause he was " going through something ". Not my fault at all. I didn't let him go soon enough. Imo.

Why do i want to and is it normal to want to hear something sensible and real from them? Even if it is terrible? The reality is that as the injured party when the chaos is gone and i think back to who i thought he was, is it wrong to want to hear if he even knows what really happened? Do they even possess the ability to be truthful to themselves. I don't care if he says " Hey you're cool and we had some laughs but i would never give up booze for you or anyone." One sentence and you said a mouthful. I could easily accept it, after hearing that. That would be the proverbial "Aha" moment. Ok so it's not a brain tumor. Thank God.

But It's kind of adding insult to injury when they give some hollow meaningless platitudes in a email. That makes my skin crawl cause it sounds so insincere.

I know that trying to get honesty from an active alcoholic who's lying about drinking and hiding from you is akin to getting blood from a stone. Why do I still want blood from that stone? Crazy?

I've read the book c n m. I go to al anon. The book was no help. Al anon makes me want to cry. It was sad. I'll try a different one.

I'm not sad anymore about the breakup. My nerves were shot by the end of the madness and i have thanked him for my peace. I haven't called him since he's been gone. But i have emailed asking for honesty. It does matter. If i can get it. If not, I'll live. After the quacks I've heard, maybe I should leave well enough alone. Thanks for listening.

Hangnbyathread

Give up on his ever being accountable for anything you feel is owed to you. I used to expend SO MUCH energy learning the truth when I knew I was being lied to. It benefited no one in the end. You can catch them lying in however many ways you choose. He will never give you the stratification of admitting it.

All it does is take away energy you can spend on positive things for yourself.

The more time passes after he's gone the less it will matter.

Let him put his next victim through it. Instead of continuing to make you his victim.

SparkleKitty

Of course it's normal to want that. But it is not realistic. The only thing that is really going to give you closure is Acceptance of This is Who He Is. And what he is, is limited. And his limitations are everything to do with him and literally nothing to do with you.

I agree that honesty would matter, if you could get it. He is not capable of giving that to you. Who knows if he ever will be. Do you want to be stuck in this place, waiting to find out? There's so much more to life than waiting for closure from someone who will never be capable of giving it to you.

Whether with my A Mother, or XABF, the only person who could give me closure was me, by letting go of whatever I thought I needed from them and moving on.

hopeful4

I think every person here wants that proverbial "why" to be answered. To say they are sorry. To acknowledge all the hurt and crap they did to our lives.

You will know you are truly healing when you accept that it won't happen, and you understand why it won't happen. And it won't matter so much. I remember when I first went to Celebrate Recovery. I think I cried for the first 5-6times. Bawled like a baby. But you know what, I kept going back. And slowly but surely, I started to use the tools I was learning to do some real recovery...for myself.

You definitely will never ever be able to control someone else's actions. What you can control is your own reactions.

Big hugs.

Eauchiche

For me, the bigger question is why I ended up in the relationship I did.
Unfortunately, this quickly turns to regrets, including regrets about how I may have contributed to my mate's illness.

Regrets are a temptation. There is nothing good about them, except to learn from our mistakes. We cannot change the past. If we don't move on and look ahead instead of backwards, we can also find ourselves back in a dysfunctional relationship.

mylifeismine

Your post made me think about how I used to want that apology/
remorse/ understanding.

What changed for me is the the concept of my personal power and
giving it away. Expecting that apology is like making my serenity and
peace dependent on something outside of me that I cannot control.
I try not to do that to myself anymore, it's an abuse of my soul.

tomsteve

Why do i want to and is it normal to want to hear something sensible and real from them?
that can have varying reasons why. it could be,for you, that you want to hear him accept responsibility for his part
...it's still my fault cause he was " going through something

Do they even possess the ability to be truthful to themselves
in active alcoholism/addiction, i didnt even know what the truth was so i had absolutely no way of being truthful to myself. i only had what i believed to be the truth which wasnt the truth, if that makes sense.

After the quacks I've heard, maybe I should leave well enough alone
EXCELLENT advise!
dont engage. what a concept!
i built a callous on my lip not engaging-bit my lip instead of stirring the pot. it was worth it.
let me rephrase that.
i built a callous on my lip not engaging after i decided i was 100%, completely DONE and wanted peace for ME

Mango blast

Breaking it down to::

1. Why do i want to?

2. Is it normal?

3. How do I heal?

Answers:

1. Alcoholism effects ALL who are in the vicinity.

2. Yes, what you are experiencing is very normal.

3. One day at a time, with support, with looking towards healing.

Maudcat

Hi, Ginalee.
Good to hear from you..
Well, would it change anything if you did get an honest answer?
Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn’t.
For me, in the early days of a breakup, getting an honest answer—“Yes, I cared for you but I prefer her.” for example, would have made me feel worse because I was still grieving the loss.
I think time will heal and it will matter less to you.
Good thoughts.

dawnrising

I too have wanted closure for so long and it seems almost inhuman for someone not to be able to say it. When I saw myself staring directly into the disease not a human being thats when I knew I would never get it. Its not fair, it sucks but so do a lot of things. Asking a broken, hollow person to give me something they can't give themselves isn't going to happen and Im sorry. I truly hope you can find some peace.

Smarie78

I forgot whose signature line says it, but something to do with waiting for an apology that will never come. I know us codependents have trouble accepting what we cannot control, and this is likely why you are feeling that struggle. I feel it too. I get so frustrated that he can't just have an honest conversation about what stares us in the face. The thousand pound gorilla on our backs. Every now and then when he isn't drinking, he does acknowledge how the sickness makes him abusive and crazy and angry and lying, but as soon as he is in the drinking zone, all logic and reason goes out the window. For the life of me I cannot convince him the sky is blue even if it is right above us. As a relentless codependent, the need to control the outcome in order to quell my intense anxiety, makes it difficult to accept his behavior. If he's lying to my face it means we are living in different universes and I struggle to accept why he can't come over to the "real" one. I keep the mantra of the Serenity prayer close at hand when I've nothing else to grasp....accept the things I cannot change.

I hope you can come to accept what you cannot change. We all want closure, want it to be clean and logical, but when we are dealing with so much crazy and illogic - what makes us think we will get anything more than from that person?

Smarie78

This is spot on. It's asking a sick person to do something that only a healthy person can do. I think this speaks volumes of why these relationships cannot succeed when one individual is sick or "hollow".."broken"...as you say. They are simply incapable of giving something they don't possess.

NYCDoglvr

I know you have needs, want your efforts to be acknowledged, but an active alcoholic will never respond the way you want. He is in the grey haze of alcoholism and his only priority is drinking. I recommend Alanon, which was a life-saver for me and offered incredible support. Yes, it is incredibly unfair but the longer you spend pining for "closure", the harder it will be.

AnvilheadII

chances are good that we won't get the closure WE WANT from even the most average person. we don't really want whatever it is THEY have to say, we already have a script that we want them to follow, so we feel better.

no one can give us what we want, verbatim, with the proper tone and decorum. that is why if we feel we must HAVE closure, we give it to ourselves.

it's why we often see should the alcoholic/addict get into a TWELVE step program, that the spouse/loved one wants to know WHEN they get to step 9 and make amends to THEM. screw that 1 thru 8 sh!t, WHAT ABOUT ME???? not understanding the process, or never having worked the steps themselves, they fail to recognize the critical importance of working the steps in order, and that it is always up to the individual on which amends they make and to whom.

maia1234

I think it is very normal for us wanting them to acknowledge their wrongs, but that is never going to happen. I am still being blamed for my divorce almost 3.5 years post. For me the affair was the icing on the cake, but he still doesn't get it.

I know it would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Hugs!!

Ginalee

Every response from all of you is relevant. I have gotten some answers from him but it's all in a strange language that some how tries to justify his deranged erratic behavior. So i guess he hasn't seen the "script".

His answers amount to: life didn't kiss his as$ so it was acceptable to have a huge alcoholic melt down and take me with him". In my opinion. He's no longer callus or cruel but it does seem like he's trying to process real emotions without alcohol.
Although he seems quite remorseful, i believe there's still denial in him about the severity of his ism. He claims he's not drinking that it was destroying his life. I guess booze turned on him. The usual he's sorry, love me miss me stuff but not one plan of fixing what caused the chaos to begin with.

I'm alright but your hugs are very much appreciated. My hubby and I had a satisfying life together, i did anyway. He love bombed for five years if that's possible. I soaked it up and gave it back. He said he was happy with me. I am a great wife. Blah blah blah.

The depression he's dealing with sounds very real though and consuming. I can hear it and that saddens me a bit. I gave him the definition of recovery. A return to a normal state of health, mind or strength. My recovery is what I'm focusing on now.

Hangnbyathread

Don't hang your hat on his sudden epiphany. They have them a lot when they know they are facing consequences. Often they drift right back into the old ways as soon as they find the right excuse to. It could likely be your fault when it happens again.

velma929

You know what? There's a couple things going on. Liars lie, that's what they do. Asking them to say something different is just infuriating when you know the truth.

And then there's the other thing: what is the reality for him? I've had my Mom, an honest person, tell me about incidents from my my youth that I remember very differently. (As in, that was my sister, not me or something I have totally forgotten OR something that I recall as being very different in substantial ways.)

His mind may legitimately process information in a way that he believes what he's saying. And I grant you, it may be from telling the same lie over and over.

Forgiving people is really, really hard for me. The whole "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" might be the hardest 12 words I utter. I hate it when people don't own up to things. In the end, obsessing about it causes me far more angst than it's causing them.

CentralOhioDad

Yeah, me too. There are still some people I cannot forgive for certain things.. When I say that part above every Sunday - I cringe a bit because I'm unable to forgive those people.

Hangnbyathread

For me it depends upon the offense. However I learned one thing in therapy that helped me immensely. Forgiving is for you not for them. I learned that forgiveness for me does not mean absolving them of their actions. It just means that I can let go of what they did to me before, I allow what they did to me to occupy any more of my energy and rent anymore space in my head. Forgiving is not forgetting, its simply a passage to allow you to move on.