Hyper-responsibility/codependency
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Hyper-responsibility/codependency
This thread might be better suited in the Mental Health forum, but I had some interesting thoughts and experiences this last week that made me think about my relationship to the alcoholic and why it is puzzling to many.
For as long as I can remember I have suffered from some form of hyper-responsibility that has caused great anxiety for me. The way I would characterize it is this overwhelming sense of the weight of the world in which I feel solely responsible and somehow if I don't do "my part", I am responsible for causing pain onto others. For example, this last week and especially since I have been unemployed, friends and family (mostly family) have been asking more than usual of me. Whether it is caring for my nephews (sister) , children or driving out to see my parents (parents), or using my car (brother), I have felt a surge in being asked and expected to do things due to the time I seem to have available.
This has historically been an issue for me, but becoming involved with an alcoholic has painted a picture for me so vividly that I cannot help but connect the two. I understand that with codependency we tend to want to fix and solve for everything, carrying the cross for those able to carry their own, and enabling someone so deeply that they no longer work not themselves because they know they can count on you. Fast forward to this last week in which I saw myself put many of my needs on the shelf for others. It was as though each time I was asked for something, this little voice in me would try and convince me that if i didn't do it, I would be the sole reason for someone elses pain. And mind you, these were not big things but quick 'favors' like using my car or doing school pick up, however these small favors added up to time I wanted to spend elsewhere (making time at the gym, using my car to run my own errands, not driving the hour out to see folks). While in a majority of the situations I was strong enough to say no, I couldn't seem to shake the feeling of guilt until I knew the person was "ok" or found another way. And when I learned they had, I got this huge wave of relief. Or that because I said no to loaning my brother my car (which I have given so much to him over the years) so I can run my own errands, I immediately spent time calling my sister to see if she can arrange for him to use her car in order to relieve my bad feelings. Like when I tell my mom I am not coming home I find myself saying, "are you sad I not coming? your tired anyways right?" and my mind says oh please say you're tired anyway!
Anyway, I see my therapist this week again and wrote down these incidences so we can work on them. Sometimes I worry because while my brain can understand it on an intellectual level that of course it isn't wrong of me to say no and live my life and I am NOT a bad person for doing so, I want so badly to relieve the guilt that often accompanies the no when I do get courageous enough to say it. My sister told me she never feels that way. In fact we met a friend for lunch yesterday and the friend lived in the opposite direction of us and while it didn't bother my sis one bit not to offer her a ride home (she took a taxi), I couldn't seem to shake the feeling that I didn't take her home or offer. This was only relieved when once I got home I sent her an apology. But crazy that I was so affected by it and to my sis it was like "she can uber it for a few bucks, she's a grown up and picked the restaurant?".
Oh well, according to my sis at least I CAN and HAVE said no. I just need to follow it up with some positive self-talk vs. the little voice that tries to nail me for it (btw...not an actual voice lol, just my sub conscience)
For as long as I can remember I have suffered from some form of hyper-responsibility that has caused great anxiety for me. The way I would characterize it is this overwhelming sense of the weight of the world in which I feel solely responsible and somehow if I don't do "my part", I am responsible for causing pain onto others. For example, this last week and especially since I have been unemployed, friends and family (mostly family) have been asking more than usual of me. Whether it is caring for my nephews (sister) , children or driving out to see my parents (parents), or using my car (brother), I have felt a surge in being asked and expected to do things due to the time I seem to have available.
This has historically been an issue for me, but becoming involved with an alcoholic has painted a picture for me so vividly that I cannot help but connect the two. I understand that with codependency we tend to want to fix and solve for everything, carrying the cross for those able to carry their own, and enabling someone so deeply that they no longer work not themselves because they know they can count on you. Fast forward to this last week in which I saw myself put many of my needs on the shelf for others. It was as though each time I was asked for something, this little voice in me would try and convince me that if i didn't do it, I would be the sole reason for someone elses pain. And mind you, these were not big things but quick 'favors' like using my car or doing school pick up, however these small favors added up to time I wanted to spend elsewhere (making time at the gym, using my car to run my own errands, not driving the hour out to see folks). While in a majority of the situations I was strong enough to say no, I couldn't seem to shake the feeling of guilt until I knew the person was "ok" or found another way. And when I learned they had, I got this huge wave of relief. Or that because I said no to loaning my brother my car (which I have given so much to him over the years) so I can run my own errands, I immediately spent time calling my sister to see if she can arrange for him to use her car in order to relieve my bad feelings. Like when I tell my mom I am not coming home I find myself saying, "are you sad I not coming? your tired anyways right?" and my mind says oh please say you're tired anyway!
Anyway, I see my therapist this week again and wrote down these incidences so we can work on them. Sometimes I worry because while my brain can understand it on an intellectual level that of course it isn't wrong of me to say no and live my life and I am NOT a bad person for doing so, I want so badly to relieve the guilt that often accompanies the no when I do get courageous enough to say it. My sister told me she never feels that way. In fact we met a friend for lunch yesterday and the friend lived in the opposite direction of us and while it didn't bother my sis one bit not to offer her a ride home (she took a taxi), I couldn't seem to shake the feeling that I didn't take her home or offer. This was only relieved when once I got home I sent her an apology. But crazy that I was so affected by it and to my sis it was like "she can uber it for a few bucks, she's a grown up and picked the restaurant?".
Oh well, according to my sis at least I CAN and HAVE said no. I just need to follow it up with some positive self-talk vs. the little voice that tries to nail me for it (btw...not an actual voice lol, just my sub conscience)
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good insight. being able to SEE our behaviors is important. it's like figuring out which spark plug isn't firing....won't know until you lift the hood.
feeling responsible or overly responsible is some part of our ego out of whack. thinking that we have more power or control OVER OTHERS than we actually do. it's not like believing oneself to be the Center of the Known Universe, but definitely feeling one has a role nearly as powerful as say Gravity.
this is an interesting article that you might find interesting. notice the use of the Serenity Prayer, in it's three parts
https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and...esponsibility/
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
feeling responsible or overly responsible is some part of our ego out of whack. thinking that we have more power or control OVER OTHERS than we actually do. it's not like believing oneself to be the Center of the Known Universe, but definitely feeling one has a role nearly as powerful as say Gravity.
this is an interesting article that you might find interesting. notice the use of the Serenity Prayer, in it's three parts
https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and...esponsibility/
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
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I am completely in sync with what you are saying. My thread about Needy Men relates to this whole idea of being the "responsible one" and how it drains me. And I feel guilty, too, if I say no.
It's a terrible form of bondage, actually. I have a difficult time discerning where my time and effort should be spent. Instead of following Jesus's "Don't cast your pearls before swine" I'm more likely to follow "if someone sues you for your tunic, give your cloak as well." And if they don't get my cloak, I feel bad. Until I get resentful. And resentment kills, so I really believe that my health depends upon my changing the way I am.
Just yesterday, my brother called and asked me for $60. I had vowed to stash every penny I have for myself. (I encountered total financial annihilation when I floated a 360k mortgage for my mother-in-law at the cusp of the recession and I wound up losing everything).
So when my brother asked for the money (and I saw on FB why he "needed" it--he posted pictures of himself with a martini at a local restaurant) what did I do? I sent him $90.
Is there a support group for suckers? If so, where do I sign up?
It's a terrible form of bondage, actually. I have a difficult time discerning where my time and effort should be spent. Instead of following Jesus's "Don't cast your pearls before swine" I'm more likely to follow "if someone sues you for your tunic, give your cloak as well." And if they don't get my cloak, I feel bad. Until I get resentful. And resentment kills, so I really believe that my health depends upon my changing the way I am.
Just yesterday, my brother called and asked me for $60. I had vowed to stash every penny I have for myself. (I encountered total financial annihilation when I floated a 360k mortgage for my mother-in-law at the cusp of the recession and I wound up losing everything).
So when my brother asked for the money (and I saw on FB why he "needed" it--he posted pictures of himself with a martini at a local restaurant) what did I do? I sent him $90.
Is there a support group for suckers? If so, where do I sign up?
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I discovered this was a big issue for me, as well. Really digging in deep with step 4 brought me to the discovery that many of my issues were of me trying to be perfect for everyone else and beating myself up for it when I was not perfect. Fear of being judged. Having someone mad at me.
I have to remind myself daily that "No." is a perfectly acceptable answer and does not require explanation. It is HARD for me to utter that tiny answer.
No.
I have to remind myself daily that "No." is a perfectly acceptable answer and does not require explanation. It is HARD for me to utter that tiny answer.
No.
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This post SPEAKS to me lol. For as long as I can remember, I've always been "the mom" of any group I've ever been a part of. In college I was ALWAYS the designated driver, whenever I go on trips with friends I micromanage their packing and ask them 12 times if they've packed a toothbrush, I feel obligated to save all the animals, and I feel obligated to save my AH. I wonder how it feels to not be so overly responsible.
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Originally Posted by SaveYourHeart 
I wonder how it feels to not be so overly responsible.
It took me a long time to just wrap my head around the idea that this was something I needed to RECOVER from. How could hyper responsibility not be a good thing? Well, when it's making you ignore your own body's red flags and cries for help, that's how.
I can still channel those instincts into my day job when I want to (when they are useful, welcome, and appreciated) but I'm certain my friends are relieved that they no longer have to remind me that I'm *not* their mom.
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Originally Posted by SaveYourHeart
This post SPEAKS to me lol. For as long as I can remember, I've always been "the mom" of any group I've ever been a part of. In college I was ALWAYS the designated driver, whenever I go on trips with friends I micromanage their packing and ask them 12 times if they've packed a toothbrush, I feel obligated to save all the animals, and I feel obligated to save my AH. I wonder how it feels to not be so overly responsible.
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I'm glad you're getting help for your hyper responsibility, you've inspired me to set up my own solo counseling appointment today!
It's funny though, my friend is traveling through Europe right now and she messaged me complaining about doing the other girls' laundry and being the mom of the group. She was like "DON'T EVER DO THIS FOR ME ANYMORE. BEING THE MOM ISN'T FUN!!"
It's funny though, my friend is traveling through Europe right now and she messaged me complaining about doing the other girls' laundry and being the mom of the group. She was like "DON'T EVER DO THIS FOR ME ANYMORE. BEING THE MOM ISN'T FUN!!"
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Anvil - I saw this article too. It fits almost perfectly;
"One of the driving forces behind obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an inflated sense of responsibility, known as hyper-responsibility. Those who suffer from hyper-responsibility believe they have more control over what happens in the world than they actually do. When my son Dan’s OCD was severe, he dealt with hyper-responsibility in relation to other’s feelings. In his mind he was responsible for everyone else’s happiness, thereby neglecting his own."
The interesting thing is that this is linked to OCD. I have not been formally diagnosed with OCD but do suffer from trichotillomania and derm (compulsive hair pulling and skin picking). I have had some obsessive periods in my life tied to OCD as well (ie. a preoccupations with random thoughts that were debilitating for a period of about 6 months, lost 15 lbs, couldn't function, etc.). I'd be very curious to know if there is a link between codependency (another form of "hyper responsibility") and mental illness mostly in the form of anxiety related disorders.
Curious...if you'd be so inclined to share....of those above who can relate to this article, have any of you a history of OCD?
"One of the driving forces behind obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an inflated sense of responsibility, known as hyper-responsibility. Those who suffer from hyper-responsibility believe they have more control over what happens in the world than they actually do. When my son Dan’s OCD was severe, he dealt with hyper-responsibility in relation to other’s feelings. In his mind he was responsible for everyone else’s happiness, thereby neglecting his own."
The interesting thing is that this is linked to OCD. I have not been formally diagnosed with OCD but do suffer from trichotillomania and derm (compulsive hair pulling and skin picking). I have had some obsessive periods in my life tied to OCD as well (ie. a preoccupations with random thoughts that were debilitating for a period of about 6 months, lost 15 lbs, couldn't function, etc.). I'd be very curious to know if there is a link between codependency (another form of "hyper responsibility") and mental illness mostly in the form of anxiety related disorders.
Curious...if you'd be so inclined to share....of those above who can relate to this article, have any of you a history of OCD?
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Ive read through the post a couple times and you make a lot of good points and raise excellent questions. Hope you dont mind if I write some things out to try to explain my thoughts - to myself at least -
I went through a book on codependency a while back and I had some trouble with it because of how it was presented, and I think it could lead a lot of people to believe that " doing anything for anyone that they can do for themselves" makes you codependent. But I think that is a huge overstatement .
I think you have hit at the core issue with your post. The problem is more of a feeling of " hyper responsibility" and OCD seems like a good comparison because there is a compulsion to "do, take charge, fix, help, etc"
The example you gave with you and your sister was a good one. She didnt feel a need, or experience emotional distress - feelings of guilt, etc over not at least offering to drive the friend home. But you actually had symptoms of emotional distress due to feeling the need to help her get home, and you even apologized (which was so sweet) but its clear its all really hard on you.
In your sisters case, if she had offered to drive the friend home.., I dont think it would have been a codependent behavior or hyper responsibility because she was not driven to do so in order to soothe her own feelings of responsibility, or fill an inner need ?
And you also highlighted another point about how you are seeing people coming to you and asking you for help now that they know you are available. I think that is the other catch to all of this. Hope you dont mind but I wanted to ask what your feelings were on it.
When asked to do something, the hyper responsibility causes a person to agree to help.. but then is there sometimes a backlash of feeling taken advantage of because the person doesnt seem to acknowledge what you did effectively?
In the book I read, I didnt think it put as much emphasis on this last part.. but what I see is sort of like a push / pull where after the deed is done.. if there is not enough acknowledgement, then it can sometimes reinforce some inner need validating - Im not appreciated, I knew it, Im not good enough, etc.. but that reinforces in an odd way the desire to do more and get some kind of self validation saying 'I did good'
I dont have OCD but I have a cousin who does. She had issues with hand washing, and other repetitive behaviors -- but all of it was to soothe what was going on emotionally. Everytime I go back to double check the door to make sure I locked it, I get a panic Im OCD because I think I locked it. But I do it almost everytime before I drive off.
I talked to my therapist about all of it because although I dont really feel like I feel obligated most of the time.., that wasnt true in the work I used to do. If I delegated anything I was pretty diligent about double checking, and researching - but that was part of my job to be certain things were done right and nothing was missed.
I just got confused because on the topic of codependency a lot of what I saw on SR was about " not doing for anyone what they can do for themselves". My therapist said doing is about healthy balance, and about not having it be as you said a " hyper responsible" Need
- its about being able to evaluate when you are hurting yourself by giving time, energy, or money you cant afford to give.. or when dealing with an addict - picking up all their slack allows a person to ignore how unbalanced and unhealthy ones life has become.
Its interesting stuff to look at.
Its really good how you are exploring all of this, and Im sure you will break it down and work through it. We learn from all of these things we go through, and I think it makes us stronger in the end.
I went through a book on codependency a while back and I had some trouble with it because of how it was presented, and I think it could lead a lot of people to believe that " doing anything for anyone that they can do for themselves" makes you codependent. But I think that is a huge overstatement .
I think you have hit at the core issue with your post. The problem is more of a feeling of " hyper responsibility" and OCD seems like a good comparison because there is a compulsion to "do, take charge, fix, help, etc"
The example you gave with you and your sister was a good one. She didnt feel a need, or experience emotional distress - feelings of guilt, etc over not at least offering to drive the friend home. But you actually had symptoms of emotional distress due to feeling the need to help her get home, and you even apologized (which was so sweet) but its clear its all really hard on you.
In your sisters case, if she had offered to drive the friend home.., I dont think it would have been a codependent behavior or hyper responsibility because she was not driven to do so in order to soothe her own feelings of responsibility, or fill an inner need ?
And you also highlighted another point about how you are seeing people coming to you and asking you for help now that they know you are available. I think that is the other catch to all of this. Hope you dont mind but I wanted to ask what your feelings were on it.
When asked to do something, the hyper responsibility causes a person to agree to help.. but then is there sometimes a backlash of feeling taken advantage of because the person doesnt seem to acknowledge what you did effectively?
In the book I read, I didnt think it put as much emphasis on this last part.. but what I see is sort of like a push / pull where after the deed is done.. if there is not enough acknowledgement, then it can sometimes reinforce some inner need validating - Im not appreciated, I knew it, Im not good enough, etc.. but that reinforces in an odd way the desire to do more and get some kind of self validation saying 'I did good'
I dont have OCD but I have a cousin who does. She had issues with hand washing, and other repetitive behaviors -- but all of it was to soothe what was going on emotionally. Everytime I go back to double check the door to make sure I locked it, I get a panic Im OCD because I think I locked it. But I do it almost everytime before I drive off.
I talked to my therapist about all of it because although I dont really feel like I feel obligated most of the time.., that wasnt true in the work I used to do. If I delegated anything I was pretty diligent about double checking, and researching - but that was part of my job to be certain things were done right and nothing was missed.
I just got confused because on the topic of codependency a lot of what I saw on SR was about " not doing for anyone what they can do for themselves". My therapist said doing is about healthy balance, and about not having it be as you said a " hyper responsible" Need
- its about being able to evaluate when you are hurting yourself by giving time, energy, or money you cant afford to give.. or when dealing with an addict - picking up all their slack allows a person to ignore how unbalanced and unhealthy ones life has become.
Its interesting stuff to look at.
Its really good how you are exploring all of this, and Im sure you will break it down and work through it. We learn from all of these things we go through, and I think it makes us stronger in the end.
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There is this "bad word" our society seems to have put in the bad box. It is the word "No." And, it is a complete sentence. Whether we are saying no to something we should not do or saying no to something that leaves us feeling guilty. But, "No" is okay. In fact "No" can be a very very good healthy thing. Practice saying "No". Get used to it. It's okay. You are not a bad person if you say "No" when you need to say "No."
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