MLD51

I had a very close friend tell me the other day he didn't think I was actually an alcoholic. This is a guy who I hurt countless times with my behavior while drinking. I lied to him, cheated on him when we were dating, embarrassed him, just generally made his life miserable. He stuck by me as a friend despite all that, and is one of my biggest sober cheerleaders. I will have two years sober this Sunday.

I cannot figure out why he would say that. Maybe because when I decided to quit, I did it and haven't looked back. It's not that he thinks I'm ok to start drinking again, quite the contrary. I replied that it doesn't really matter to me whether I can be "defined" as an alcoholic. What matters to me is that my life was a mess and I knew alcohol was causing the majority of my problems. I don't have a problem going to AA meetings and saying I'm an alcoholic. That "label" doesn't bother me. If it helps me get and stay sober to say that I'm an alcoholic, I'm going to say it.

Have any of you had people close to you tell you they don't think you're "really" an alcoholic? How did that make you feel? Did it change your mind in any way? Did it make you feel like you had permission to drink because you weren't "that bad" after all? Just interested to hear other peoples' thoughts.

August252015

I don't care what anyone else thinks- I know the truth. I don't keep anyone in my life who would sabotage my sobriety- which this is even in a somewhat sneaky but also overt way. Don't know what his angle (truly) is but I'd put a stop to it, and to him, completely, if necessary.

Good luck.

SnazzyDresser

beautifully put, MLD51. Describes my feelings on the matter as well.

MLD51

August - The statement was made in the context of a broader conversation about alcoholism and sobriety in general. I don't think he has an agenda by saying it, but then again, he's an admitted alcoholic who still drinks, so I'll give that some thought. He says I am his hero for quitting, and has truly been nothing but supportive. He keeps saying he will quit someday. The fact that he still drinks is why I am not allowing myself to entertain thoughts of ever having more than a friendship with him, and he knows that. If he does eventually quit, we will see.

Bird615

Could it be that he has a certain perception of what an alcoholic is? There's still an astounding amount of people who still think it's a bum on the street.

I have had people tell me that and my AV just loves to hear it. I mostly avoided anyone who said I was fine and didn't have a problem at first because that was the last thing I needed to be hearing.

Update: but if he's an alcoholic himself, does he think you weren't as bad as him? Then that's all up to us to decide for ourselves--just how far we're willing to go down.

MLD51

I think he knows that an alcoholic doesn't have to be a bum on the street. He often says he thinks he's an alcoholic, and he's one of those people who has a good job, takes care of his responsibilities, has never been in legal trouble. A functioning alcoholic, if you will. But how he can say he doesn't think I am one is beyond me. My life really was a mess. It makes absolutely no difference to me what other people think, I KNOW I can't ever drink again.

Irnldy001

I had some illusions while still drinking. The first and worst was that I was just fine because I 'contained' my drinking to just evenings. The next was that I got to work everyday (in bad shape sometimes, but I got there!).
Then there was the image of the 'real drunk' in my mind. While I have thrown out the lies - I realize that what I was conjuring up was just things I had not done YET. If I carried on I would absolutely be drinking in the morning and through the day. The last time I relapsed, I got way worse, and actually gave myself permission to drink during the day on weekends (cause no harm no foul, right?). As time goes on, you lower every barrier, every "I would NEVER".....
We all have a different bottom, a different wake up call. I agree he doesn't need to agree with you. He can think as he pleases. I would also say he likely has some envy watching you - while you know quitting was hard, it's possible he thinks you made it look easy.

Merigold

I'm not very social. My BFF is my husband. He knows and tells me I'm an alcoholic constantly often to my annoyance!).

the day before yesterday I went over to a friend he and I have, a couple. They are heavy drinkers, but do not identify as alcoholics. I told them I was an alcoholic and I was going to rehab for 4 weeks. I wanted them to know as it was clear to me that I needed to stay away awhile. Nothing to do with them, as in I love them and I consider them very good friends indeed. But their friendship does have a basis in drinks and drugs. I know I have to let them go until I am strong enough to say NO!

The whole visit they were drinking. I didn't. I wish It was because I'm good! It was only because I knew on the way home i@d pick up a bottle of wine.

Anyway, they both said to me I wasn't an alcoholic. They said just go to counselling...It DID make me feel like maybe i'm over reacting?

Maybe I'm ok?

I've drove drunk. Blindingly, black out drunk. No idea how I got home. I drink at work. I lie and hide my drinking. I find "hidden" alcohol regularly ( and am happy when I do..)..I can't cope without a drink.

I'm an alcoholic.

I told my friends I was going to be away until the end of January. But I am worried how I will cope afterwards, I'm not social, they are really the only ones other than my Hubby!

MLD51

Madbird said -
Update: but if he's an alcoholic himself, does he think you weren't as bad as him? Then that's all up to us to decide for ourselves--just how far we're willing to go down.

That could be it. He does drink more in volume at times than I ever did or could.

FreeOwl

"What matters to me is that my life was a mess and I knew alcohol was causing the majority of my problems. "

This is all that matters.

Never let anyone else's judgement of what you are, aren't or might be sway you from your own experience.

Whether or not you are / aren't 'an alcoholic' isn't even a debate worth having given the statement you made.

I spent a lot of time on this..... these days, I don't care. I sometimes say "I'm an alcoholic" at AA meetings. I sometimes talk about and identify with that label here and in recovery circles. I sometimes say things like "I'm a person who chooses sobriety" or "I'm a sober man", when I feel less identified with the term 'alcoholic' for various reasons.

But for me - the simple reality is that alcohol caused more awfulness in my life than it was ever worth, and my life in sobriety is better than it ever was drinking. So labels no longer matter. If someone were to say to me "you're not an alcoholic" I'd be likely to respond by saying "maybe I am, maybe I'm not..... but what I can tell you for sure I am is SOBER. And I have found that to be the way I prefer to live".

Don't allow others' doubts to interfere with your own self-truth.

FreeOwl

also... you said he's an alcoholic who still drinks.....

a simple reason "why" may be that he HAS to believe you're NOT an alcoholic.

Because if he believes that you ARE an alcoholic - but sees that you are sober......

then he has to admit to himself that HE HIMSELF can be sober if he chooses to.

it might be that 'alcoholic' to him is presently an excuse to continue drinking...... "I can't help it, I'm an alcoholic".

you identifying as an alcoholic might challenge his own rationale for remaining in his active addiction.

Centered3

This is paraphrased from the big book of alcoholics anonymous:

If alcohol was my only problem, and my life got better once I stopped putting it in me, then no, I'm not a real alcoholic.

Alcoholism is two fold illness--mind and body but it centers in the mind. I used alcohol to try to fix my mind. Once I took away alcohol, I was worse because I no longer had my solution to my real problem, which was "me"-- my thinking, behavior, and reaction to life.--my misperceptions that stem from a place of fear that originated a long time ago.

So perhaps that's what he means, since you got better once you took away the alcohol.

There is a difference between someone who is a hard drinker versus the real alcoholic.

FreeOwl

yeah...... in my experience, the difference is time.

But, that's just me. I suppose there are "hard drinkers" out there whose only affliction is hard drinking.

I suspect based on my experience and exposure to others though, that those lines are pretty blurry.

Centered3

That's a good point too that Madbird said.

However, just because someone drinks more alcohol does make them anymore of an alcoholic than someone else is.

I was told recently that the rooms of AA are filled with hard drinkers and not real alcoholics. That being said if you have a desire to stop drinking, that's all you need to join AA and it's a wonderful program of growth and recovery.

Fusion

I shan't debate the 'alcoholic' label because I've no wish to cause controversy. I admit to being an alcohol addict, though. The label isn't important, you are.

You had a life-affecting problem, caused by drinking too much alcohol, therefore you needed to and did stop. All credit to you for doing so, by whatever means.

I drank huge daily amounts for years, completely out of control, destroying myself and everything surrounding me. I was a member of AA and worked the steps twice and still practice some principles (forgiveness, meditation, reflection) to aid the smoothness of my daily life. But for me (unlike others) AA didn't stop me drinking, yet I'm glad it works for some.

When I found an alternative method to stop drinking, my old AA buddies couldn't accept that anything other than AA could work. They said, I wasn't really an alcoholic, because I'd stopped drinking, without attending meetings.

This SR site alone is testament to the fact that people with massive alcohol addiction problems can stop. I think perhaps people use this 'alcoholic' label as an excuse to continue drinking (I did for far too long -wasted years). As in 'you were able to stop drinking because you weren't an alcoholic' which allows them to go on the relapse merry-go-round, in that they can't stop for good because they're an 'alcoholic'.

I'm not sure, but please ignore this person who wasn't supporting you and caused you to doubt yourself. Once the addiction neural path is opened, current neuro-science says it can't be completely closed, but only left to over-grow. Please don't re-open it, you're doing fantastically well.

thomas11

All my friends drink, but only one saw me at home during a bender. He recently told me he doesn't think I'm an alcoholic and the subject doesn't come up with my other friends. My parents still offer me a drink if I visit them.

It has absolutely no impact on my thinking. I know better than all of them, after all, I was there. I know how bad it got. I'm pretty new to sobriety so maybe my thinking will change over time, but I'm not going to question the gifts it has given me at this point.

Congrats on 2 YEARS MLD!!

Centered3

That's a good point, FreeOwl, since it is a progressive disease.

But it makes me wonder....I have a friend who is a hard drinker, but I watch her in how she reacts to life. She lets everything go. She doesn't live in the past or future. She's not running on fear. She seems very level headed.

I just wonder if she got to the point PHYSICALLY of no return, would she actually have resentments to write an actual 4th step? Hmmm....

ScottFromWI

Yes, I've had people tell me that. Not only after I quit drinking by while I was still drinking. It was probably one of the main reasons I didn't quit for so long - of course if other people though I was "OK" I must be "OK", right? ;-)

Bottom line though, what other people think about my drinking and my addiction doesn't matter. I know in my soul and heart after years of battling that i'm an addict. Nothing that anyone can do or say will ever change that.

Centered3

Everyone's bottom is different.

Again, paraphrased from the big book entitled alcoholics anonymous

If you put it in you, and your body says give me more,
If you swear it off but you do it again,
If you drink because you like the effect,
then you're probably an alcoholic.

That all being said.....that's the body part....but alcoholism centers in the mind and the liquor bottles are a symptom/symbol.

FreeOwl

I seemed that way for a long time, too.... even to myself.

We aren't always what we seem...... I don't know that I can class every 'hard drinker' as a risk to becoming alcoholic, but I sure don't think it's a very big leap from abuse to addiction.