Liveitwell

A friend sent me this picture today and I couldn't have summed it up better:

"When someone makes you suffer, it is because they are suffering deeply inside and their suffering is spilling over. They don't need punishment, they need help".

I drove over the river my ex and I met at tonight....not going to lie, it made me tear up. Even back then he was suffering-told me all about how his life was not worth anything bc he didn't get accepted to the Air Force academy and that his drunk dad expected him to be a soldier and so he failed. He was angry at life when I met him. Angry insude, tormented. I recall over our marriage how much pain and secrets he had regarding his childhood-many tied to his mom, as he told me, but did not share. I recall how much I tried to make that suffering go away-just end it. I tried to love, listen, enciurage, asked him to get help for the issues he admitted to-the issues that were tearing apart our marriage, our family and HIM. I wanted him to get better....so much. Just tried so much that it almost killed me, and he bit off the hand that was trying to help him. I was supposed to end his suffering-he told me that. (I know now that is not any other humans task-that is his job, and Gods). I don't take anything he's done personally bc I know in my heart it has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with him. If someone is abusing you, it's HIM that has the problem. If someone is threatening you. You can bet the suffering is huge. I'm not saying this is an excuse at all-quite the contrary. My ex plays the victim and deserves an academy award for his performances...but it was my job to not alow his suffering and demons to tear apart my life of my children's anymore. Not one more minute. He needs massive amounts of help....I do truly hope, as I always have, that he gets that help someday. I don't know all the details of the abuse he and his siblings endured but I would not wish it on anyone, and they did not deserve it. But living in the past as the scared abused child , still, only served to ruin the present and the future. If I was still a Codie and married to him I would totally drop him a copy of "The Body keeps the score-healing of trauma"... I did so love that person that turned into a monster. I pray one day he wakes up to the ruin he himself has chosen as his life.

My friend asked me if I hated my ex...my simple response was true-not at all, I don't hate him, I pray for him. All any of us can do is pray for those that are suffering, get out of their way and hope they get help.

My thoughts for tonight. Cheers

honeypig

Nice post, FoG, good insights, IMHO.

Liveitwell

Just the old saying of "hurt people hurt others" and want them to hurt. Any time he tries to hurt me it only serves to show how much he is suffering-and I don't want that for him, truthfully. I'm not hurting inside and I've never understood trying to tear someone down to make yourself feel and look better-I don't see how that ever works. When my ex threatens, I pray. When his family members act crazy and threaten, I pray for them. When he lashes out, I pray God ends his suffering. Bc honestly? I'm good....and I'm glad I'm not him. I chose to stop killing myself and digging my own grave with my own shovel. I ended my suffering with the truth-regardless of what anyone else thought- only way you can! I chose life.

Whew-deep thoughts for this sat night-I knew it would happen-my ex and I met over Memorial Day weekend twelve years ago so this time of year makes me introspective. Thanks for listening

honeypig

I get it about anniversary dates, etc., being triggers for feelings and thoughts to come bubbling up. This coming Tuesday would have been 20 years married for XAH and I and I've been swinging between sadness and some anger. The anger surprised me, and I guess that's part of why your post was especially useful to me. It's good for me to remember all the things that are better, all the things I have learned and am still learning, since beginning my own recovery. There is still resentment there, in all honesty, as much as I don't want it to be.

I've done a lot of forgiving, way more than I could have imagined. I don't feel like I can take credit for "having forgiven", though--I feel like the anger and resentment was taken from me, it wasn't something I worked at. For someone who was brought up in no religious tradition and was never any kind of believer, this is a wholly new experience.

Liveitwell

HP-wishing you much peace around your trigger date...I get it, trust me. I do! I was brought up in the church but not in a faithful Christ centered home at all (and going to church does not equal goodness-I've witnessed this). I did not realize the power of forgiveness until I accepted Gods forgiveness for my sins. He absolutely can take away the resentment and pain-absolutely (and I am a born again Christian, by His grace alone I am here to share my testimony-I didn't live a Christian life until my life was changed by Him-my life was ruled by fear!). Anyway, religious tangent aside....

I am happy you are here sharing your struggle and hope and everything else-it helps me so much we keep putting one foot in front of the other and help ourselves to end our suffering-sonething many of us did by removing ourselves from our abuser/addict.

Thank you , friend.

Bekindalways

You said a mouthful here FOG.

My sister and I have barely spoken for almost 5 years. It really hurts that this is the way it is but I have come to understand a lot of what you said above. It helps a lot towards forgiving although I'm with HP a bit as some happens with time and I still have some resentments.

Liveitwell

^ ha! Yes, yes I did and I agree with everything you said. Let's work on those resentments bc they only eat us up!

honeypig

Regarding resentment--heard this the other day: "Resentment is to life and recovery as smoking is to your lungs. Even a little is poison." I thought that was an accurate and vivid visual....

Refiner

IDK FoG... Selfish, uncompassionate people who hurt, hurt others. That's good that you don't hold any hatred and you pray for him, but just bc he grew up with some childhood abuse (as did I), doesn't give him a pass for being a monster. Just my 2 cents, anyway.

Bekindalways

Absolutely Refiner! And to me it is why I got the Hell-out-of-Dodge both with my XABF and my sister. It is not okay no matter how understandable it is.

My sister and I went to a counselor together last week. It was something I had suggested over 5 years ago. It went pretty well and I came away with more compassion for her along with an understanding that the pain she is in and how she acts with it continues to make a relationship between us impossible.

honeypig

I didn't read the original post as someone being "given a pass", either. It has taken me a long time but in the past year or so, I've been able to begin to feel compassion for XAH at times too. It doesn't mean that the things he did weren't wrong, or that it doesn't matter that he did them. It DOES matter that I don't hold it against him (as much). As with most things I've seen so far in recovery, it's way more about me than about anybody else...

Liveitwell

Oh heck no....not a pass at all. To the contrary-as I stated, I know he has an abusuve childhood-that does NOT give him a pass...plenty of people has much harder circumstances and thrive as an adult-it's all how you cope and learn to grow up. I had an abusive childhood as well. My point was that you can't use your childhood as an excuse to act or behave a certain way. Period, otherwise you literally never grow up and live. It's all about coping with trauma and overcoming suffering, which we all do. In NO way does it give him a pass to not act like a responsible accountable mature adult. Not at all!!

I have the utmost compassion for him as a lost child of God...absolutely...and someone that always struggled with thinking he wasn't enough for anythih or not good enough-I have total compassion for him...but that doesn't give him a pass at all for any despicable behavior he has pulled.

Refiner

Ok, I understand. Just like my sister probably has a personality disorder (Narcissism), I should feel more compassion than I do. It's just so hard not to take personally.

honeypig

Amen!

Hawkeye13

I see these kind of interpersonal conflicts as opportunities to grow.
I've had plenty as well--most especially my mother.

And it hurt, and I was damaged, but at this stage of life I have re-framed what happened and really moved on.
I see now that my mother herself was deeply damaged by her childhood,
and had other emotional issues that led to her alcoholism.

I am in part the person I became due to the strength I grew to survive my childhood.
It was catalyst for personal growth, and now I look forward, not back.

honeypig

I agree that this can often be true, Hawkeye. I read the following over in the Newcomers forum a while ago:
My therapist years ago said if it hadn't been for that willful rebelliousness I cultivated, both as a kid and well into adulthood, I would have basically ended up with a very damaged, fragmented psyche.
Until now, in a flash of light almost, I never realized that the AV, Beast, addiction whatever, had been using this (what had once been an important) self defense mechanism against me. In other words..I KNOW what the AV is, I just did not RECOGNISE it in this guise.

I think this can be true of many of us--that the strength that allowed us to survive eventually hardened or twisted and turned into an inflexible shell that shut out learning, feeling, or growth of any kind. Our protective armor turned into a cage.

It can take some time to get to this point, but what a difference when you do arrive!

Hawkeye13

Boy, your post / reflection is really helpful HP--I do live in a shell much of the time to be honest.

I have peace these days, but I'm not sure that is the same as happiness.

I'm much better than I was, yet I am, without a doubt, not the being I might have grown into
if I'd had a safe and nurturing space in which to grow.

I don't honestly know how much can be rebuilt at this stage, or if I just need to move on and evolve into something else.
Not a "normal" human, but a proto-type of some ilk, perhaps. . . .

Thank you for this response. Much food for thought

Liveitwell

Hawkeye and HP-when I was in marriage counseling with my then husband she told him that the survival mechanisms he had developed in living in such an insane environment as a hurt little boy did not serve him any more-that it was okay and that he needed to let them go bc he wasn't in that scary abusive environment anymore. Bingo. Trauma is the root of the evil, with all I've learned and been through myself. It's not until we address and heal the trauma, the root suffering, do we heal - this goes for As, us, anyone. I recall my ex telling (slurring) me one night by screaming at me that he was going to laugh at me when my dad died bc I was going to fall apart just like he did. I sat there a little bit in shock and responded, no , I won't, bc I've healed. And truthfulky, I had. I was not the scared little girl anymore coping by drinking and needing validation by men to replace what my abusive father never gave me. I had fully forgiven him and detached and moved on with my life. I'm not enmeshed with my family and will not die without them. My trauma with them, at least, has been resolved-through my own hard work. The trauma my ex caused to me and to his own daughter? Inexcusable and work in progress on that stuff, but I'm progressing. I'm taking strides to heal that. Each day is a step in the right direction. If we don't heal our past, our suffering, it kills the present and the future. My ex is still the scared little boy that copes with life by getting drunk and lashing out-so incredibly angry at life-everything-nothing is fair-and still thinking big sissy and mommy hung the moon and will save him and rescue him-and them thinking they're doing a good feed by allowing him to not grow up and playing their roles to a T. It's psych 101. The saddest thing to see is that the family dynamic is still the same as when they were kids-and there ain't nothjng ok or normal or sane about that.

I do want him to be a healthy adult-bc I did love him. Truly. But his past and staying in his cage with his blinders on ruined his family (btw, I'm speaking of us-not his FOO, which is who he always considered his true family-transference of loyalty never happened-not even to his kids. Sad).

Until the suffering is healed, the cage is where he stays. Life is hard. For each one of us-nobody gets a pass at that-but it's all in how you cope.

hopeful4

I pray for my X as well. I want him to be well, he is the father of my children. The healthier he would be, the better relationship they could have. It won't happen in my opinion, but I do pray for him to be well and for his heart to be open to change. I hate his behavior, and unless it changes, always will. I know enough to know I have no control over that, so I have let it go, turned it over to God.

He had my daughter for his weekend this past weekend. Yesterday at church he said he was sweating and not feeling well. Withdraws was my first thought, but who knows. Not my problem either way.

JLOBYXMAS

Today, as in times past I'm really reading these posts, the insight of you all is amazing. I don't hate my ex, and I don't need to forgive him, forgiveness isn't the right word. He too experienced a very emotionally traumatic childhood, that he will never be able to get over, he's let it define him for so long, that it just is who he is.
My heart bleeds for him, because he has a heart of gold, but it's been encased in iron for so long, that it's impossible to separate the two. So sad, what we do to our children, how we affect the next generations. So so sad.