Rev 3:16

Out of the blue, my wife called yesterday and said she wanted my help finding a counselor and wanted to work on her drinking, as in cutting back or stopping. As the Brits would say, "I was gobsmacked" ... totally astounded.

Now, the question is, how do I help? What should I not do? When does helping start/continue codependency on my part...again.

I've posted previously about our situation. Briefly, my wife has a highly technical position and works two weeks each month at an isolated company-controlled site. She can't drink there. When she's home, she starts a two-week long binge that progresses from two bottles of wine a night, to four a day, and passed out mid-afternoon. When sober, she's kind, sweet and super smart. When drunk, she's mean, judgmental and belligerent. You can read the whole story at "Ground Hog Days--Now She Wants to Retire"

I've been attending Al-Anon meetings and found a very good group, but one which is very strict about not discussing our qualifier. Haven't gotten a sponsor and would welcome some views of those who have...I tend to be pretty private.

At this point, I've said that since I have a doctor's appointment coming up this week, I'll ask her for a recommendation.

What else can I do, should I do to keep this train on the track and moving ahead?

Bekindalways

I don't know if there is much you can do to keep the train on the track but you could certainly look into a counselor for her.

I haven't been in a situation like this so will look to others to chime in.

maia1234

Rev,
I read a lot on the new to recovery forum. What I have read is that the ball is in her court and she needs to make it happen. They say that they should make an appointment with the dr. and "tell" the Dr her issues. Let the Dr. recommend a place and help for her.

If this is truly what she wants then she needs to own it and be honest. Telling you and not doing anything about it means nothing, all talk. It is really not our issue, we don't understand addiction as we aren't addicts. You could also recommend to her, someone who you know is in AA, that she could reach out too. You need to have her do everything.

Good luck my friend, take a step back and let your soar!!

honeypig

I do remember you and your story, Rev. I'd agree that the ball is in her court. She is an adult and is perfectly capable of finding her own counselor and "working on her drinking" herself. She does not need ANYTHING from you in this regard. You may want to politely wish her well, but other than that, there is really no need for your involvement.

"I'm glad to hear you're considering recovery. As an intelligent and resourceful person, I have every confidence that you can find your own path once you set your mind to it. I wish you the best."

Until SHE takes action and has some serious sober time to show, this is nothing but more quacking. Actions are what count, not just words, right?

Glad to see you back, and best wishes on your own continued recovery!

Hawkeye13

Agree with others--I think addicts have an uncanny sense
of when a partner is pulling back from dysfunction and they need to keep you roped in to keep status quo.

Enlisting you to do what she should do for herself gets you back in your
enabling role and delays your getting detached from the situation.

If she means it, she needs to do the legwork for counseling and put in some weekend sober time and really walk the walk via actions.

Frankly, as a former alcoholic myself, and one who also grew up with a master quacker,
I think she's manipulating you.
Hopefully, I'm very wrong and she will step up and take action to stop.
Only time, and what she does (not says) will show you.
Step back and let that happen.


Good to see you back Rev

dandylion

Rev......is the intention for the "counselor" to be an individual counselor for her....or for marital counseling for the two of you?
I will just say that marital counseling is generally reserved for a couple when the alcoholism issue is dealt with, first.....at least, that they are consistently sober.
This is because the active drinker is unable to be emotionally available and HONEST.

I wonder if "work on her drinking" means (to her) that she works a program specifically for alcoholics....or, just doing talk therapy with a general counselor?
I ask this, because......I have long noticed that the alcoholic, will, often, try to "go to counseling" or "start going to church" or some such substitute to AA or another program that specifically targets drinking alcohol.
This is often done in an effort to get a spouse or partner or family off their backs. An appeasement of sorts...

Now, I am not saying that counseling is not a good move for her.....or, what working on her drinking means. I am just giving you the benefit of some of my observations, over the years.
What she does will be up to her, of course.

I would say---don't go completely nuts with the cheerleading.....and, don't be obstructive, either.
A counselor is a very personal decision that she should make. She is very smart...so, she will be able to set it up, etc.

dandylion

MIRecovery

My wife at the end said she would make a doctor's appointment for me. After that I was was on my own. She was supportive, when to multiple IOP meetings, would give her opinion if asked, made it very clear that she had had it and if I wanted to die I would do it without her

AnvilheadII

notice YOUR behavior.....she calls to ask for HELP doing things she is perfectly capable of doing on her own, and you want to leap into ACTION.

she summons, you jump.

how about you do NOTHING. if she is in this "highly technical" position, surely she can figure out the phone book.

doggonecarl

Cutting back? She's not ready for recovery, not really, if continued drinking is her goal.

So continue with your recovery.

wanttobehealthy

Given that she is super smart when sober as you describe her to be, I think that she is likely perfectly capable of finding options for help if she wants them.

What seems more likely here is that she wants to pull you back in, involved and enmesh you in HER issue and therefore she does not need to take ownership of it.

In your shoes I DID go running to help my now XAH and all it did was put me rapidly back on the crazyland merry-go-round. It took me doing that A LOT of times before I realized that NO, and telling him that his actions and what he chose to do ON HIS OWN would tell me what I needed to know about his sincerity about recovery (or lack thereof).

In hindsight, with the benefit of experience and having made many mistakes, I would say "stay far away from involving yourself in helping her, however well intentioned, it is a landmine that awaits you".

But I also know that I had to experience the land mines myself before I trusted that that was true, so there is no judgement here, no matter what you do.

FireSprite

I'm also firmly of the opinion that someone so highly educated & capable can find their way to a detox or rehab facility alllllll on her own. Especially since it likely only entails a call to her primary care provider to start the ball in motion. Are you somehow more qualified than she is to find a counselor or determine which type of recovery plan makes the most sense for her?

If she means it, she'll take that first step, IMO. Otherwise, it's just more quacking with different words.

Rev 3:16

Thank you all for a cold splash of reality. Frankly, I was so taken, and taken aback, by her actions that I'd forgotten that it was "detachment with love" that was helping me and may have motivated her.

That said, there have been some recent occurrences in our lives that may also have been motivating factors. Every one of her siblings has a problem with addictive behavior. Her older brother recently overdosed on pain killers and was found walking around the neighborhood in boxer shorts and nothing else, having crashed his car into the garage. As a consequence, the police nabbed him and he's in for a 72 hour hold. He's in restraints, combative, detoxing and probably will be sent off to psych treatment.

Before she left, we had a discussion about her hallucinations and when she babbles and speaks in tongues in the middle of the night after waking up from a passout. That and she's just had a milestone birthday, is worried about putting on weight--at 600 calories per bottle she's knocking back the equivalent of five Big Macs. And, alcohol is so nutritious.

Maybe an alignment of planets. I'll hope, but not get my hopes up. I'll help, but trying to remain detached. As for getting a referral for a substance abuse counselor, I really do have to help there if there's to be any moving forward. There's no cell service and she can't call a counselor from company facilities. We can talk on the phone, however, and we've talked each night. I really do believe she means it, but then she's sober now.

Sorry if I'm wondering and wandering. Thanks again for your perspectives.

Liveitwell

^ Rev....just a story....my ex lost his alcoholic father to a horrible alcohol caused death a few years ago. He drank more to handle that death with other addicts and enablers in his family. One early morning he came to me and asked me not to judge him and told me he had been chugging bottles of vodka daily and spitting up blood-he was in his early thirties. He cried and begged me to help him stop drinking and I cried and told him I would do what I could and that we could find a good treatment center ( I was 8 months pregnant at this time). Sadly two days later he was drunk and cursing me out again,. When he lost his marriage to me, he drank more. When he lost his kids due to drinking, he drank more. I too felt like THIS IS IT....when his dad died....this is when he will get it!!!!! Hoiray!!!!! He's going to beat the odds and get out !!!! Surely he will wake up and see what alcoholism has cost so many in his family!
Sadly, that was not the case and things only got worse tenfold.

Not saying this will happen to her....but I too had so much hope....but hope is not a plan, so I had to come up with an plan b should he not seek true recovery-and he did not so we left for freedom and safety from him.

Keep taking steps forward and take care if yourself and your boundaries.

Peace to you

Liveitwell

Btw, I too got major promises of change....when I had my foot out the door or after a huge drunk abusive incident. It was all lies....change cones from within and isn't sonething that needs to be promised. It is silent, calm and an inside job. She's promising bc she can sense you've had enough and have a foot out the doir-which you have every reason to. When I didn't believe my then husbands grand promises of change, all he did was morph into his true self-he changed into a much bigger monster than I had ever imagined was possible.

Those words others posted above-don't get involved in helping her/it is a setup for failure and more chaos. It's not your battle.

Keep working on you and see what she does or doesn't do-more will be revealed, that you can be sure.

fantail

Sorry to chime in but this is something that resonates with me. I once helped a friend get help for serious depression. Then I helped a friend help his dad get sober. I later asked my family for help with my drinking. In all cases, the person who was mentally ill (him, and then him, and then me) was too sick to wade through the very initial logistics but then was able to get better with the professional help that the healthy person got them in touch with. It can seem easy when you're well, but it's very hard. I'm not trying to disagree. People do manipulate sometimes and I don't know the specifics of the situation. But getting someone the first appointment really can save lives. From there on its up to them but that first step can be very hard/impossible when you're drowning.

I hope this doesn't come across as encouraging anyone to be taken advantage of. Just that I know it's hard to understand it if you haven't been mentally ill yourself.

dandylion

Rev...I agree with fantail....there is no crime in helping se t up an appointment, in itself....
It is very scenario dependent, I think....

I join you in hoping that she will seek sobriety.....

dandylion

redatlanta

Of course its always good news when someone indicates they "want to do something about it". What we don't know is it this has been muddling around in her brain for awhile, has she, without telling you, tried to limit her intake? Is she aware she is an alcoholic, and is powerless? I ask these questions because I believe most alcoholics initially go for "moderation" rather than cessation, and that her comments "cut back or stop" really mean "cut back" (which we know its not going to work).

I do remember your story, but can't remember if you have had the conversation about where YOU stand about the future of her alcoholism, and your relationship. I think its a good time to have that conversation if you haven't. You initially came here because she mentioned retiring, have you told her you can't fathom being around her all the time drunk? Do you think your marriage can continue if her drinking career continues? Its a good time now to talk about that. It might be further reason for her to assess her drinking and where its leading.

I would point her in the direction of an addiction specialist rather than her personal Doctor. Some in the medical field are not in the know about alcoholism or treatment. Additionally, people are more likely to lie to their Doctors. She could lie to an addiction specialist too -its just that the addiction specialist is used to the lying, and sees through it.

Work the Step Program it will help you so much. Your sponsor is your guide, not your therapist. The program is about you, not her. What you talk about is up to you. You can continue to be private if that is your wish.

Rev 3:16

I deeply appreciate the advice and perspectives being provided. That I've been away for a while is just a measure of general busyness--two sets of house guests and a writing project (an aside: Violence in Entertainment Media--research shows that by the time a child reaches 18 years of age, he/she will have been exposed to 400,000 killings on TV and that's slightly less than all the Americans killed in WWII)

My wife was reasonably well behaved during two visits and moderated her drinking to that equivalent to our guests' drinking--typical social drinking. And then she was back to work.

Shortly after she returned home, we had doctor's appointments. We share a doctor at a university medical school and this was a new doc--our former physician had moved. My appointment was first and I handed her a list of concerns--aches, pains and whatnot. The last item was "Wife's Excessive Drinking." The doc went right to it. We spent most of the time talking about that. I laid out the Ground Hog Day scenario that I've described here. I took that step because my wife's drinking has a very bad and increasingly bad affect on me despite trying to detach. Plus, wife was supposed to have gone to previous doc to discuss drinking and she didn't choosing to limit her visit then to discussion of lower back pain (for which she was prescribed meloxicam and usually takes with champagne.)

Anyhow, back to the doctor's appointment. I would note that wife had tied one on the night before and was "off gassing" alcohol despite a shower. I'm sure the doctor could smell it. The upshot is that the physician is recommending a substance abuse counselor with whom she has had good results. Wife's first session will be when she returns in mid-May.

atalose

I'm a bit confused.. You went to a doctor for some aches and pain and stress that your wife's drinking is causing YOU and the doctor recommended a substance abuse counselor for her? What about YOU? Where's the recommendation for a therapist for you?

Rev 3:16

She asked me if I thought I needed a counselor. I'd previously seen one, but after three sessions he launched into relationship/attachment theory and at the end of the fourth session was talking about color therapy. Not for me. (I'm not a counselor myself, but I have had a ton of psych graduate courses for my MBA in organizational behavior. I was a psych minor in undergraduate studies. ) I'm pretty self aware and will try a new one if I see that I'm spiraling in.