Detaching is Tough, But Necessary!
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Detaching is Tough, But Necessary!
Why does detachment work so much better?
- It shows our A that we have boundaries.
- It protects us from hurt.
- It allows us to slowly readjust to a life favoring ourselves.
It doesn't work perfectly. In fact, the first time she and I split up, I spent months where there would be moments I would be overcome with missing her. This was of course partially the codie in me but also the lamenting of a true loss. I think a lot of us come here because we're trying to understand the loss. Codie or not, we feel the loss because that's what it is. It's something we wanted to work that didn't. In the case of the relationship with the A, it's also something we probably tried to either fix, tolerate/live with, understand, reason with (the A and ourselves)...And none of it worked. Thus, we are left (at first anyway) with a hole that we sometimes are unsure we can ever fill again.
That's how it was with me anyway -- Part of me missed her, and will miss her again. There are always good characteristics in our A's, often buried or dulled by years of neglect, yet we see those glimpses, know they are there...We dream for a life where they can be there every day. Perhaps in the same way our A's dream of moderation...The almost unobtainable ideal (at least when you're in a relationship with an A who doesn't have any desire to recover or have the right toolbox
to do it).
Four years ago when we split, we knew it was the end. The wedding approached and there wasn't much question of staying together when you call off a wedding.
This time, there's no clock, and it's muddied the waters somewhat.
She had a moment of clarity around a week and a half ago where she seemed to suddenly realize that everything was falling apart in her life due to the booze. From all the reading I do around here I realized that this could be a variety of things (ranging from complete fabrication to an actual desire for recovery) but given the circumstances I decided to go with it. We had a frank and open conversation which she expressed things like saying she felt she was a f***-up, a self destructive person, a person who "has problems with alcohol", a person who kept "messing up". The first she has owned up to a problem in a very long time.
We had some wonderful days of talking, dating (dinner/movie type stuff), time together, remembering what we could do in life together when we had clear heads...It lasted 7 days. I kept plans I had made during my detachment and left for a few hours one night, and that was all it took for her to run right back to the liquor store (she had to text me to tell me before I came home, I guess to prepare me, that yes it happened). I expressed disappointment (perhaps should have tried to call and stop it as I've seen done here but I feel it would have been fruitless).
Given what I read here about false recovery and denial and everything else that an A can do when faced with the loss of both their relationship and their alcohol, I fully understand why this happened and was out of my control. It happened because she's not ready.
I was confronted immediately when I got home and asked if I had a problem with the fact that she had a rough day/week and needed to drink, also saying that it was SO HARD to not drink for the last week (so this was in her eyes the REWARD I guess). Obviously my answer was that it was a problem but I then walked away -and went to bed - No sense arguing with an intoxicated person. Detach, detach!
Since the initial binge, things only got worse -- The alcohol immediately was back in the house, the disappearing for an entire night...It all came back and we'd circled back in a very short period of time.
Some of us come here because we think we are the only ones who have ever lived through something like this, then we find strength and comfort in seeing just how similar it all is. I've also many times reflected back on my own role and contributions (or lack thereof) to the relationship. I wondered if this was all just a way to an off-ramp in a relationship that she wanted to end...This was just the vehicle to getting there. Then you read so many similarities here, about the AV, the failed recoveries, the things said, the patterns...You realize that alcoholism is real. You realize that you're wrapped up into a disease that you weren't even sure you were a part of. It's eye-opening to say the least.
She's made steps in self-awareness to know there is at least an issue in her. I can see she's not ready to stop listening to the AV and do the work -- The main issue being there is no recovery plan. The recovery plan this time was "I'll stop drinking". No support system, no AA, no SR, no friends to even help her through it. It failed miserably. I can't build her recovery plan or start her recovery. It can't be my decision or even my plan.,
We're back to where we were pre-day 1 where the recovery was short-lived. Back to the stages where the regret is setting in and I can't help but think the poor girl is struggling with why she's not drinking right now, every waking minute, because it's just the only thing that she can do to even temporarily have moments of "peace" or "happiness" or "distraction"...
And a final point I wanted to make and ask about. This goes out to the A's and those who are related. We hear a lot about how long it takes the brain to recover, and everyone is different. I think a lot of A's (my GF included) may expect/hope that with a couple days away from the booze, the sun comes out and everything's great. From what I read here, it's months, even years in some cases...before they can return to their full potential (or perhaps just LEARN how to deal with life in a real way without the numbness of substances). I recall her saying back in her 5 month dry spell last year, she didn't feel any better, she didn't feel any worse...and when she started to drink again, it was because nothing really good happened from a result of quitting. Again, no recovery plan. Nothing changed, I don't feel any different or better about myself, may as well just drink because at least that was FUN. I made the mistake perhaps of asking her how she was feeling occasionally last week. If she had been feeling healthier, better, clearer, as the days started to distance from the booze. She said the same. No better, no worse, no different. Perhaps it's that lack of insta-change that makes so many A's listen to the AV in their head and just say, stopping hasn't really made me feel any different, I may as well just go back to it.
- It shows our A that we have boundaries.
- It protects us from hurt.
- It allows us to slowly readjust to a life favoring ourselves.
It doesn't work perfectly. In fact, the first time she and I split up, I spent months where there would be moments I would be overcome with missing her. This was of course partially the codie in me but also the lamenting of a true loss. I think a lot of us come here because we're trying to understand the loss. Codie or not, we feel the loss because that's what it is. It's something we wanted to work that didn't. In the case of the relationship with the A, it's also something we probably tried to either fix, tolerate/live with, understand, reason with (the A and ourselves)...And none of it worked. Thus, we are left (at first anyway) with a hole that we sometimes are unsure we can ever fill again.
That's how it was with me anyway -- Part of me missed her, and will miss her again. There are always good characteristics in our A's, often buried or dulled by years of neglect, yet we see those glimpses, know they are there...We dream for a life where they can be there every day. Perhaps in the same way our A's dream of moderation...The almost unobtainable ideal (at least when you're in a relationship with an A who doesn't have any desire to recover or have the right toolbox
to do it).
Four years ago when we split, we knew it was the end. The wedding approached and there wasn't much question of staying together when you call off a wedding.
This time, there's no clock, and it's muddied the waters somewhat.
She had a moment of clarity around a week and a half ago where she seemed to suddenly realize that everything was falling apart in her life due to the booze. From all the reading I do around here I realized that this could be a variety of things (ranging from complete fabrication to an actual desire for recovery) but given the circumstances I decided to go with it. We had a frank and open conversation which she expressed things like saying she felt she was a f***-up, a self destructive person, a person who "has problems with alcohol", a person who kept "messing up". The first she has owned up to a problem in a very long time.
We had some wonderful days of talking, dating (dinner/movie type stuff), time together, remembering what we could do in life together when we had clear heads...It lasted 7 days. I kept plans I had made during my detachment and left for a few hours one night, and that was all it took for her to run right back to the liquor store (she had to text me to tell me before I came home, I guess to prepare me, that yes it happened). I expressed disappointment (perhaps should have tried to call and stop it as I've seen done here but I feel it would have been fruitless).
Given what I read here about false recovery and denial and everything else that an A can do when faced with the loss of both their relationship and their alcohol, I fully understand why this happened and was out of my control. It happened because she's not ready.
I was confronted immediately when I got home and asked if I had a problem with the fact that she had a rough day/week and needed to drink, also saying that it was SO HARD to not drink for the last week (so this was in her eyes the REWARD I guess). Obviously my answer was that it was a problem but I then walked away -and went to bed - No sense arguing with an intoxicated person. Detach, detach!
Since the initial binge, things only got worse -- The alcohol immediately was back in the house, the disappearing for an entire night...It all came back and we'd circled back in a very short period of time.
Some of us come here because we think we are the only ones who have ever lived through something like this, then we find strength and comfort in seeing just how similar it all is. I've also many times reflected back on my own role and contributions (or lack thereof) to the relationship. I wondered if this was all just a way to an off-ramp in a relationship that she wanted to end...This was just the vehicle to getting there. Then you read so many similarities here, about the AV, the failed recoveries, the things said, the patterns...You realize that alcoholism is real. You realize that you're wrapped up into a disease that you weren't even sure you were a part of. It's eye-opening to say the least.
She's made steps in self-awareness to know there is at least an issue in her. I can see she's not ready to stop listening to the AV and do the work -- The main issue being there is no recovery plan. The recovery plan this time was "I'll stop drinking". No support system, no AA, no SR, no friends to even help her through it. It failed miserably. I can't build her recovery plan or start her recovery. It can't be my decision or even my plan.,
We're back to where we were pre-day 1 where the recovery was short-lived. Back to the stages where the regret is setting in and I can't help but think the poor girl is struggling with why she's not drinking right now, every waking minute, because it's just the only thing that she can do to even temporarily have moments of "peace" or "happiness" or "distraction"...
And a final point I wanted to make and ask about. This goes out to the A's and those who are related. We hear a lot about how long it takes the brain to recover, and everyone is different. I think a lot of A's (my GF included) may expect/hope that with a couple days away from the booze, the sun comes out and everything's great. From what I read here, it's months, even years in some cases...before they can return to their full potential (or perhaps just LEARN how to deal with life in a real way without the numbness of substances). I recall her saying back in her 5 month dry spell last year, she didn't feel any better, she didn't feel any worse...and when she started to drink again, it was because nothing really good happened from a result of quitting. Again, no recovery plan. Nothing changed, I don't feel any different or better about myself, may as well just drink because at least that was FUN. I made the mistake perhaps of asking her how she was feeling occasionally last week. If she had been feeling healthier, better, clearer, as the days started to distance from the booze. She said the same. No better, no worse, no different. Perhaps it's that lack of insta-change that makes so many A's listen to the AV in their head and just say, stopping hasn't really made me feel any different, I may as well just go back to it.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Good to see you back, though sorry that the problems continue. She doesn't sound ready to quit. As you said, she has no plan. Sounds like she realized she was losing her relationship and her rent-free living situation and made a feeble effort at sobriety to try to stall that possibility. What happened to her moving out?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 55
I'm very sorry you're going through this but I can't thank you enough for writing this tonight. It's so tragically similar to the pattern that's been going on in this house that reading it brought me to tears. It does help me realize that I am not alone, unfortunately.
The "No recovery plan.. I'll just quit" and then the "Nothing's changed, I don't feel better".... Yes, yes.. I've heard this from him so many times.
The "No recovery plan.. I'll just quit" and then the "Nothing's changed, I don't feel better".... Yes, yes.. I've heard this from him so many times.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Try, it seems that many As need a particular state of mind before they can become successful at quitting. My personal belief is that it is tied up with self-esteem, and an eventual realisation that you don't want to be a drunk anymore because you know you're better than that.
Some people never get there; others take a long time. I'm glad you're detaching from the process because as long as she's hanging around you don't want to be collateral damage.
Some people never get there; others take a long time. I'm glad you're detaching from the process because as long as she's hanging around you don't want to be collateral damage.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Putting the alcohol down is the easiest part of recovery IMO. If you are empty when you are drinking you will be empty when you are not. I think its logical to believe that if the alcohol is removed then the problem is gone, and its normal that the alcoholic would think this as well.
However, when the alcohol is gone so is the blame. What is to blame when one is sober, and unhappy or struggling? How many times did one think if they would just quit everything would be ok? The spouses and partners think the same.
Recovery is very hard and usually takes more than one try (usually it takes many). your conversations last week hopefully will remain with her and hopefully and sometime in the near future she will try again. No, I doubt the drinking was an off-ramp for her. She is an addict and doing what they do - for most of them loss of relationship/codependent/enabler isn't a planned thing. She would much rather you just accept her how she is faults and all, and stay together. This would include allowing her to do whatever she wants, when she wants. Generally this just doesn't work at all.
However, when the alcohol is gone so is the blame. What is to blame when one is sober, and unhappy or struggling? How many times did one think if they would just quit everything would be ok? The spouses and partners think the same.
Recovery is very hard and usually takes more than one try (usually it takes many). your conversations last week hopefully will remain with her and hopefully and sometime in the near future she will try again. No, I doubt the drinking was an off-ramp for her. She is an addict and doing what they do - for most of them loss of relationship/codependent/enabler isn't a planned thing. She would much rather you just accept her how she is faults and all, and stay together. This would include allowing her to do whatever she wants, when she wants. Generally this just doesn't work at all.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
I think a lot of A's (my GF included) may expect/hope that with a couple days away from the booze, the sun comes out and everything's great. From what I read here, it's months, even years in some cases.
I can't even put into words the amount of peace I have after 2 days free after 5 years of alcoholic turmoil at home.
You sound like you have a lot of clarity. All that is left is figuring what you want, and what is best for your life. Best to you Try Guy.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
As always great deal of thanks to you all for reading, thanking, and replying. SR is truly one of the most caring places I have ever come across on the internet, if not THE most. Quite a wonderful group of individuals here. I think it's because we are either bystanders, people who are getting better (or ARE better), trying to get better, or at least WANT to get better. We're all in such great company with one another.
To field some of the questions and comments above.
Regarding her living situation -- After our very sincere chat I figured it was worth at least backing down on the pressure (she may have still been looking but I wasn't on her case). I wanted to see how sincere her effort would be (last time, it was 5 months, this time, it was one week).
As soon as she slipped, and on top of the slip, declared that the drinking would now be continuing, it was immediately back to my pressure of her to find a place, so the search is back on. There was no arguments. When I say I am done, her instant response is always "me too". Never, EVER "I love you, I want to stay, please don't"....etc. It is always an immediate agreement without argument. Verbally, anyway.
So that's where we stand today. It's back to the cold war in the house, I'm keeping separate at home for the most part, no casual conversation or time together (since she's drinking most nights, or going out late and driving home tipsy or not coming home at all). It was a dry week and then back to square one.
I do want HER to want to get better, and want her to get better, and the more I read here at SR, it makes sense why she has failed in the past attempts. The first time, it was the famous "Stopping was so easy, I can have an occasional drink now and then" and the second time it was just "I stopped and I don't feel any better, so I'm just going to start again". The common denominator here is a lack of a plan and not being ready to face a lifetime without alcohol. I can't imagine that is easy after you have lived 20 years with it as a part of your life on a very regular, almost daily basis.
Redatlanta is extremely insightful in this:
I have no doubt that ultimately she would rather be here with me, having the comfort of the relationship when she needed it, the comfort of home, of a supporting stable partner, COUPLED WITH the freedom to drink, disappear, and misbehave as much as she wants. The best of both worlds. Unfortunately, the both of these mentalities can no longer exist in my world because it's just not fair to me. However I do hope that the things I have said and even the things she loses will lead her down a healthy, happy path in the future. She may find short-term happiness here and there down the road even with the bottle in hand, but it's definitely a path that ultimately leads to despair. I do not wish this for her and her life.
firebolt - That's so funny you say that. In a way those of us who are family or friends have an easier road to recovery. It's not a 1:1 ratio of days. They may need years to feel normal. In just a matter of days, free from the drama, anger, sadness, pain, uncertainty, concern...We see a whole different way of thinking. Our brains get immediate stress relief. Sure, sometimes replaced with a sadness and a longing, as I have felt even now, though there's an appealing side of it all where being free of all of those negative experiences that come along with living with someone with a drinking problem. Our brains may have the ability to adjust and heal much faster than the A's. If only all it took was a few days away from the bottle for them to see how fulfilling that a sober way of life could be! Thanks for what you said about recovery though, it does give me hope for her. She has been able to quit things before and stick with them indefinitely, sometimes after false starts even. She can kick this too, and I hope she someday will.
To field some of the questions and comments above.
Regarding her living situation -- After our very sincere chat I figured it was worth at least backing down on the pressure (she may have still been looking but I wasn't on her case). I wanted to see how sincere her effort would be (last time, it was 5 months, this time, it was one week).
As soon as she slipped, and on top of the slip, declared that the drinking would now be continuing, it was immediately back to my pressure of her to find a place, so the search is back on. There was no arguments. When I say I am done, her instant response is always "me too". Never, EVER "I love you, I want to stay, please don't"....etc. It is always an immediate agreement without argument. Verbally, anyway.
So that's where we stand today. It's back to the cold war in the house, I'm keeping separate at home for the most part, no casual conversation or time together (since she's drinking most nights, or going out late and driving home tipsy or not coming home at all). It was a dry week and then back to square one.
I do want HER to want to get better, and want her to get better, and the more I read here at SR, it makes sense why she has failed in the past attempts. The first time, it was the famous "Stopping was so easy, I can have an occasional drink now and then" and the second time it was just "I stopped and I don't feel any better, so I'm just going to start again". The common denominator here is a lack of a plan and not being ready to face a lifetime without alcohol. I can't imagine that is easy after you have lived 20 years with it as a part of your life on a very regular, almost daily basis.
Redatlanta is extremely insightful in this:
Recovery is very hard and usually takes more than one try (usually it takes many). your conversations last week hopefully will remain with her and hopefully and sometime in the near future she will try again. No, I doubt the drinking was an off-ramp for her. She is an addict and doing what they do - for most of them loss of relationship/codependent/enabler isn't a planned thing. She would much rather you just accept her how she is faults and all, and stay together. This would include allowing her to do whatever she wants, when she wants. Generally this just doesn't work at all.
firebolt - That's so funny you say that. In a way those of us who are family or friends have an easier road to recovery. It's not a 1:1 ratio of days. They may need years to feel normal. In just a matter of days, free from the drama, anger, sadness, pain, uncertainty, concern...We see a whole different way of thinking. Our brains get immediate stress relief. Sure, sometimes replaced with a sadness and a longing, as I have felt even now, though there's an appealing side of it all where being free of all of those negative experiences that come along with living with someone with a drinking problem. Our brains may have the ability to adjust and heal much faster than the A's. If only all it took was a few days away from the bottle for them to see how fulfilling that a sober way of life could be! Thanks for what you said about recovery though, it does give me hope for her. She has been able to quit things before and stick with them indefinitely, sometimes after false starts even. She can kick this too, and I hope she someday will.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
Thanks for what you said about recovery though, it does give me hope for her. She has been able to quit things before and stick with them indefinitely, sometimes after false starts even. She can kick this too, and I hope she someday will.
Makes me so sad - I know the outcome if he continues that line of thinking and acting. All we can do is hope, pray, send good vibes, (whatever you believe in there) and continue to protect ourselves from the crazy til they do.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
TG-
Glad to see you're back!! Glad to hear she gave up alcohol for a week. It's funny, how you ask her if she feels any different. She is correct, she was the same person just not drinking. Growing up, sobering up and working a program are totally different then what she did for that week. I read this the other day "admitting to a problem IS where it starts.....but there can be quite a gap between Admission - Awareness - Acceptance and most importantly ACTION. "
Here are a few of my other favorites..."Getting help requires humility and a genuine dislike for lifestyle they lead. " so true!!! The dislike for the life style is a really powerful sentence.
"The smartest move, IMO, anyone who was around me made was to toss me out of their lives. I was going to do absolutely nothing but bring insanity into their lives."
"When I was deep in my drinking/using, I was completely delusional in my thinking and actions and behaviors, and my continual attempts at justification ranged from plausible to absurd....but I could not see any of it."
AS you can see TG you need to stay the path. You need to give her a time frame to be out. You gave her another chance and she failed. Time to move forward. It really has to hurt, really bad for them to change. Hugs my friend!! Glad to see you back on SR!!
Glad to see you're back!! Glad to hear she gave up alcohol for a week. It's funny, how you ask her if she feels any different. She is correct, she was the same person just not drinking. Growing up, sobering up and working a program are totally different then what she did for that week. I read this the other day "admitting to a problem IS where it starts.....but there can be quite a gap between Admission - Awareness - Acceptance and most importantly ACTION. "
Here are a few of my other favorites..."Getting help requires humility and a genuine dislike for lifestyle they lead. " so true!!! The dislike for the life style is a really powerful sentence.
"The smartest move, IMO, anyone who was around me made was to toss me out of their lives. I was going to do absolutely nothing but bring insanity into their lives."
"When I was deep in my drinking/using, I was completely delusional in my thinking and actions and behaviors, and my continual attempts at justification ranged from plausible to absurd....but I could not see any of it."
AS you can see TG you need to stay the path. You need to give her a time frame to be out. You gave her another chance and she failed. Time to move forward. It really has to hurt, really bad for them to change. Hugs my friend!! Glad to see you back on SR!!
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
TG, analyse it how you will, until you give her a deadline for moving out you're still dancing to her tune.
Your relationship is over no matter how you look at it, but you seem unable to let go. Face up to your fears, and for your own sake ask her to leave and follow through.
Your relationship is over no matter how you look at it, but you seem unable to let go. Face up to your fears, and for your own sake ask her to leave and follow through.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,431
Originally Posted by redatlanta 
i agree with Feelinggreat.
How long as she been "looking" for a place? Dog or no its just not that difficult. I am pretty sure she will remain there until you lower the boom.
How long as she been "looking" for a place? Dog or no its just not that difficult. I am pretty sure she will remain there until you lower the boom.
Get her out for her good and your own.
This cycle will keep repeating otherwise
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Thanks so much for the support. I have no reason to think the cycle will not continue. I left the site for a few days as I hoped she might have found it and started coming here and I wouldn't want her to feel undermined if she happened to find these posts (you just never know, I'm sure it has happened before). If she does start on a path to recovery I want that to be hers. Regardless I'll still be back here but just need to talk about ME and not her (though until our relationship is over it's on my mind, so I'm honest when I come here, with you all and myself, no reason to not say what's on my mind and going on even if it's counter-intuitive as I know it sometimes is).
She is looking at another place tonight. I know she is waiting/hoping I will tell her to stop looking and start the cycle up again. I just can't see how to do it though she makes it so hard. This time it has been different than the previous time. Things just sort of went "back to normal" and after the weekend the drinking stopped again, and has not started back up. She's been cordial, helping out more around the house, not drinking, etc.
firebolt said:
I can totally relate to you there. It's amazing to love them and care for them despite their actions however the more I learn here is that it is so hard for them to control...I don't blame them as much as I blame their condition. To hear that he never once said he had any problems has to be hard. I've at least gotten an admission of a problem, which was nice, but believe it or not, was not nearly enough to make her want to change...so even if you got that far with him, there would still be so much further to go.
maia said:
Really love that post overall maia. The quote about having to DISLIKE the situation, so strong. Plus, I did just what you said. Actually gave her the chance and it blew up in my face. There is so much to learn about the process. I was mistaken to think that NOT drinking would somehow change her brain chemistry and feeling about herself and life. It's very profound what you say. She is the same person, whether she drinks or not. It's a maturity thing moreso than a chemical thing. I was mistaken to think that alcohol clearing the system would lift the fog and change the outlook.
I get what is happening, it's a show she is putting on for me, to say that not EVERY day with her has to be terrible. It's not that though. That was never our problem. There were weeks where every day was a bad heavy drinking day. There were weeks where it was very light drinking, or drinking only on the weekends. So it has never been consistently good, or consistently bad. I also understand that in the face of this relationship ending, she would have motivation to want to try and avoid the booze. But this time there has been no statement of wanting to quit or even regret about last weekend. My impression is the hope is that I will give in and just let things go back to the way they were -- me just doing my best to put up with it, her saying she will try and do better and MODERATE (and not doing any better, and always wanting to drink, and always wanting more...) etc.
I have noticed that in some cases here over the months and years that people have been told to just stay with their As, stick with it, let them try and recover at home (even after false starts), etc. I suppose in my case it's different because there is no marriage, no kids, no shared property, and I'm in the upper position as holding all the cards with the home ownership, etc? It's obvious there's a huge slide towards GET HER OUT NOW vs. anything else.
I also understand the rationale that for whatever reason, being here in this living situation is detrimental to her recovery, and there's little faith in her starting a recovery at home and succeeding (I guess because history has shown that most As leave and need to recover on their own outside of the relationship, if they ever recovery at all, and never recover while remaining inside the relationship?)
She is looking at another place tonight. I know she is waiting/hoping I will tell her to stop looking and start the cycle up again. I just can't see how to do it though she makes it so hard. This time it has been different than the previous time. Things just sort of went "back to normal" and after the weekend the drinking stopped again, and has not started back up. She's been cordial, helping out more around the house, not drinking, etc.
firebolt said:
I hear ya. All I want for XABF is health and happiness. He can do it - I hope he does it - but to date, he "DOES NOT have a problem with alcohol!!" lol
maia said:
It's funny, how you ask her if she feels any different. She is correct, she was the same person just not drinking. Growing up, sobering up and working a program are totally different then what she did for that week. I read this the other day "admitting to a problem IS where it starts.....but there can be quite a gap between Admission - Awareness - Acceptance and most importantly ACTION. "
I get what is happening, it's a show she is putting on for me, to say that not EVERY day with her has to be terrible. It's not that though. That was never our problem. There were weeks where every day was a bad heavy drinking day. There were weeks where it was very light drinking, or drinking only on the weekends. So it has never been consistently good, or consistently bad. I also understand that in the face of this relationship ending, she would have motivation to want to try and avoid the booze. But this time there has been no statement of wanting to quit or even regret about last weekend. My impression is the hope is that I will give in and just let things go back to the way they were -- me just doing my best to put up with it, her saying she will try and do better and MODERATE (and not doing any better, and always wanting to drink, and always wanting more...) etc.
I have noticed that in some cases here over the months and years that people have been told to just stay with their As, stick with it, let them try and recover at home (even after false starts), etc. I suppose in my case it's different because there is no marriage, no kids, no shared property, and I'm in the upper position as holding all the cards with the home ownership, etc? It's obvious there's a huge slide towards GET HER OUT NOW vs. anything else.
I also understand the rationale that for whatever reason, being here in this living situation is detrimental to her recovery, and there's little faith in her starting a recovery at home and succeeding (I guess because history has shown that most As leave and need to recover on their own outside of the relationship, if they ever recovery at all, and never recover while remaining inside the relationship?)
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SOME A's recover at home and remain in the relationship. Honestly, it sounds like a nightmare for a few years when it happens...and yes, it is much, much easier to leave without joint property, kids, and going through a divorce. Emotionally, I don't think it's much easier. We can always hope, but how much of our lives do we want to spend in a relationship based on their 'potential?'
I think we have to figure out why we picked them - what were your partners like before her?
In my case, there was a gamble-aholic, another addict - I didn't realize til after the split), a borderline narcissist, and someone potentially gay. All unavailable in their own way, and me with 1 foot out the door through the whole relationship, every time. I knew XABF drank more than I wanted in a partner - I refused do date him for almost 6 years for that reason, but we were best friends. Then loneliness, friends saying, look, you guys love eachother, he'll mellow out, and my own convincing codie brain believing that kicked in , and I gave in.
Now, almost 5 years worth of relationship in, I want to beat the crap out of myself for not listening to ME - every time! I got to SR in year 2 of this one looking for how to get him to stop drinking, and the odds of that happening. It took almost 3 more to get this awesome / horrific / painful education about alcoholism and codependencey, and let it sink in, then take care of me enough to do something about it.
Like jjj111 said, you have to do what is right for you, I think most of us 'urge' people to spare themselves some pain, and the hard crap we've gone through and skip to the good part in getting free of it all. You have a process and timeline like we all do though.
I think we have to figure out why we picked them - what were your partners like before her?
In my case, there was a gamble-aholic, another addict - I didn't realize til after the split), a borderline narcissist, and someone potentially gay. All unavailable in their own way, and me with 1 foot out the door through the whole relationship, every time. I knew XABF drank more than I wanted in a partner - I refused do date him for almost 6 years for that reason, but we were best friends. Then loneliness, friends saying, look, you guys love eachother, he'll mellow out, and my own convincing codie brain believing that kicked in , and I gave in.
Now, almost 5 years worth of relationship in, I want to beat the crap out of myself for not listening to ME - every time! I got to SR in year 2 of this one looking for how to get him to stop drinking, and the odds of that happening. It took almost 3 more to get this awesome / horrific / painful education about alcoholism and codependencey, and let it sink in, then take care of me enough to do something about it.
Like jjj111 said, you have to do what is right for you, I think most of us 'urge' people to spare themselves some pain, and the hard crap we've gone through and skip to the good part in getting free of it all. You have a process and timeline like we all do though.
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I appreciate it. That's exactly what I am trying to figure out. What I cannot ignore is the fact that she is basically playing by the textbook exactly, it's like you all can predict everything that will happen.
It makes it such a sad truth that she is just exactly doing everything that an A does.
I appreciate coming here because I get the honest straight unbiased talk that I need to hear. Everything I say is honest too and I feel like the honesty I get back is invaluable.
I appreciate it and promise to keep listening to everything and doing what I have to do in order to take care of myself and my own life. I must say the more I reflect back, the amount of energy and time I have focused stressing and worrying over her issues through the years is quite astounding.
It makes it such a sad truth that she is just exactly doing everything that an A does.
I appreciate coming here because I get the honest straight unbiased talk that I need to hear. Everything I say is honest too and I feel like the honesty I get back is invaluable.
I appreciate it and promise to keep listening to everything and doing what I have to do in order to take care of myself and my own life. I must say the more I reflect back, the amount of energy and time I have focused stressing and worrying over her issues through the years is quite astounding.
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TG- You talk about spouses that stay with an addict. I stayed. 34 years!!! That is a long stay. 11 years ago I told his Dr. that he was an A. So I was having huge issues 11 years ago that I called the Dr. and told him confidentially. When I talked to him recently he told me that it was 2004, I about died that it was 11 years later. Time flies when you are having fun. haha!!
I did everything I could to "stay", literally going crazy, but staying. I was out of control, crying, miserable, couldn't sleep, yelling, freaking out, and everything you can imagine. When someone said to me something about " you can always find an alcoholic home by the crazy spouse" yep that's what happened. Everyone loved the A, but I was loosing it. So you do stay and you stay as long as you can take it, but eventually they drag you down the river. So your options are to drown or save yourself. I chose to save myself.
Same way with an A, you have to hit rock bottom before you truly can follow through with "abstaining".
We ALL feel your pain, as we all love our A's. Hugs my friend, there is more to getting sober then stop drinking. She will learn that as no one likes a dry drunk!!
I did everything I could to "stay", literally going crazy, but staying. I was out of control, crying, miserable, couldn't sleep, yelling, freaking out, and everything you can imagine. When someone said to me something about " you can always find an alcoholic home by the crazy spouse" yep that's what happened. Everyone loved the A, but I was loosing it. So you do stay and you stay as long as you can take it, but eventually they drag you down the river. So your options are to drown or save yourself. I chose to save myself.
Same way with an A, you have to hit rock bottom before you truly can follow through with "abstaining".
We ALL feel your pain, as we all love our A's. Hugs my friend, there is more to getting sober then stop drinking. She will learn that as no one likes a dry drunk!!
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Maia, during your 34 years, question for you. How long were you sort of a silent partner in the role of the alcohol? For the duration of my 9 years, at least probably by the time we reached the end of the first year, I have expressed my discontent. However, the difference is that for years I took a "if you can't beat them, join them" type attitude and would just socially drink at every event like she wanted to (sometimes, but not always, having to tend to her because she overdid it). I'm wondering if you lived this way for 34 years silently or were very vocal with your AH early on and ongoing. Were there peaks and valleys where you just sometimes dealt with it quietly? Or was it an argument every time?
I can admit I have done a mix and tried everything. Abstaining around her completely. Drinking socially with her. Drinking MORE than her. Drinking less than her. Not drinking at all. Avoiding her when she drinks. Sitting next to her when she drinks. Refusing to drive her when she wants to drink (and watching her drive herself).
And over the years it's been other substances mixed in there off and on, when the drinking wasn't enough or to replace the drinking when she was trying to cut down.
I think this is the first time in our 9 years together that I have basically just out and out gotten to the point where I don't want to be near her when she drinks. Not even in earshot. I want to be anywhere else. I've gotten to the point of detachment (as this thread's title mentions) where it's the only way I can deal with it when it happens.
Her reaction this week has been to not drink (at least, not visibly, I am quite aware that it can still happen and even on the sly)...Help out around the house, gently kiss me goodbye every morning while I'm in bed before she leaves early for work...In that case, you look just at the actions, and hey, everything's great. Actions not words, right?
However, there were no words about last weekend's binge. Only that I'm done, and waiting for her to move out. Not a word spoken about it since. I'm done, she agreed she was done, she's back to look at places, now this.
I think she's afraid to talk because she knows what the answer is. She wants things to rewind back to when I was just dealing with the regular drinking, the occasional binges, the uncertainty of how drunk she'd get at social functions...the uncertainly of when she had a day off and I wasn't home, how drunk she'd be when I walked in the door...She just wants to go back to those days. It was probably more perfect that she ever knew.
The problem is that eventually everyone wears down. Everyone has a breaking point. Maia yours was 34 years , perhaps sooner, but a final breaking point in that you had it to the point you could not take another day. I have let her know that after years of saying "I don't know how much longer I can do this", that day has come. It was not without warning. Perhaps it was not heard, or believed, but I just can't live a life that way any more. Life is short, stressful, and work is hard, and those times you get to enjoy yourself should not be full of stress and fear of what the guy/girl in your life is going to do. It's hard enough to keep your own head up some days, trying to prop up someone else is just draining.
I can admit I have done a mix and tried everything. Abstaining around her completely. Drinking socially with her. Drinking MORE than her. Drinking less than her. Not drinking at all. Avoiding her when she drinks. Sitting next to her when she drinks. Refusing to drive her when she wants to drink (and watching her drive herself).
And over the years it's been other substances mixed in there off and on, when the drinking wasn't enough or to replace the drinking when she was trying to cut down.
I think this is the first time in our 9 years together that I have basically just out and out gotten to the point where I don't want to be near her when she drinks. Not even in earshot. I want to be anywhere else. I've gotten to the point of detachment (as this thread's title mentions) where it's the only way I can deal with it when it happens.
Her reaction this week has been to not drink (at least, not visibly, I am quite aware that it can still happen and even on the sly)...Help out around the house, gently kiss me goodbye every morning while I'm in bed before she leaves early for work...In that case, you look just at the actions, and hey, everything's great. Actions not words, right?
However, there were no words about last weekend's binge. Only that I'm done, and waiting for her to move out. Not a word spoken about it since. I'm done, she agreed she was done, she's back to look at places, now this.
I think she's afraid to talk because she knows what the answer is. She wants things to rewind back to when I was just dealing with the regular drinking, the occasional binges, the uncertainty of how drunk she'd get at social functions...the uncertainly of when she had a day off and I wasn't home, how drunk she'd be when I walked in the door...She just wants to go back to those days. It was probably more perfect that she ever knew.
The problem is that eventually everyone wears down. Everyone has a breaking point. Maia yours was 34 years , perhaps sooner, but a final breaking point in that you had it to the point you could not take another day. I have let her know that after years of saying "I don't know how much longer I can do this", that day has come. It was not without warning. Perhaps it was not heard, or believed, but I just can't live a life that way any more. Life is short, stressful, and work is hard, and those times you get to enjoy yourself should not be full of stress and fear of what the guy/girl in your life is going to do. It's hard enough to keep your own head up some days, trying to prop up someone else is just draining.
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TG, I think that what people were trying to get across earlier in this thread was not so much that you HAVE to be done, but that IF you are done and really want her out, you will probably have to set some firmer boundaries, like a move out date. I think you might be under-estimating how firm you will have to be if you want to set the "I won't live with an active alcoholic" boundary. Again, not telling you what to do, just suggesting what you might need to do *if* you are ready.
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